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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Plan Ansom: Decapitation strike!

    Ansom was planning a decapitation strike after a pause in the war to consolidate.

    Charlie asks Parson, why is there a pause in the war?

    Parson seems to try to distract Charlie in his replies.

    What next?

    The decapitation attempt would seem to open up possibillities, including action by Charlie and some of his 600 archons... If Stanley's army is mostly gone, then a good time to go for Stanley.

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    Default Re: Plan Ansom: Decapitation strike!

    He is quite clearly lying to Charlie. His bizarre behavior and talk of various TPs is uncharacteristic for someone not drunk.

    While I suppose it's possible that Ansom was disheartened after Queen Bea's suicide, he seems to be a skilled strategist. I doubt he's going to be so dumb as to whine at the massing Royals instead of striking down Jetstone.

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    Default Re: Plan Ansom: Decapitation strike!

    Which is why Parson also fed Charlie the line about GK running into financial problems. Ansom stalling for time/taking advantage of the lull to seek allies is a very plausible scenario.
    The above post made a lot more sense in my head.

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    Default Re: Plan Ansom: Decapitation strike!

    Quote Originally Posted by TigerHunter View Post
    Which is why Parson also fed Charlie the line about GK running into financial problems. Ansom stalling for time/taking advantage of the lull to seek allies is a very plausible scenario.
    Well, I don't believe Ansom ever told Bea that the Decrypted had no upkeep.

    I mean, just the thought is probably considered silly and broken in Erfworld terms... oh wait.

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    Default Re: Plan Ansom: Decapitation strike!

    Eh, I imagine GK city itself is going to be heavily defended at all time, and Ansom isn't going to sacrifice capital defense to go after Jetstone, just use their massive lead in troops to smash the still recovering Monarchy.
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    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Plan Ansom: Decapitation strike!

    Eh, I imagine GK city itself is going to be heavily defended at all time, and Ansom isn't going to sacrifice capital defense to go after Jetstone, just use their massive lead in troops to smash the still recovering Monarchy.
    Agreed, but with *600* archons Charlie might be able to free up enough for an attempt against a heavily defended capital, and he can get Parson to run the odds or find out how many are needed.

    Sounds to me like Charlie may be stronger than the entire royal alliance, especially with his mobillity. (As was already hinted in Book 1 with the first 2 calcs Charlie got Parson to run and then how quickly he could get that many archons to GK)

    Charlie has the motivation now... Wanda's archons allow others to know his secrets, and his secrets are a level of safety against threats. (Hard to successfully attack someone if you don't know what he has, and what his weaknesses are)
    Last edited by multilis; 2009-10-28 at 09:20 PM.

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    Default Re: Plan Ansom: Decapitation strike!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaed View Post
    Well, I don't believe Ansom ever told Bea that the Decrypted had no upkeep.
    Whether or not he did, the info wasn't in her letter to Don, so it's a mute point.

    Quote Originally Posted by multilis View Post
    Agreed, but with *600* archons Charlie might be able to free up enough for an attempt against a heavily defended capital, and he can get Parson to run the odds or find out how many are needed.

    Sounds to me like Charlie may be stronger than the entire royal alliance, especially with his mobillity. (As was already hinted in Book 1 with the first 2 calcs Charlie got Parson to run and then how quickly he could get that many archons to GK)

    Charlie has the motivation now... Wanda's archons allow others to know his secrets, and his secrets are a level of safety against threats. (Hard to successfully attack someone if you don't know what he has, and what his weaknesses are)
    I highly doubt Charlie can afford that, if he's even capable of mustering such an assault. His forces are spread out over a sizable portion of the world, and he's almost entirely dependent on revenue from mercenary work to pay the archons' upkeep. He'd be throwing away hundreds of lucrative mercenary contracts for several dozen turns (if Caesar can be five turns from the capital and still be in Transylvito's territory, Charlie may have archons hundreds of turns away) in order to throw his entire military into a meat grinder. And for what? A city he doesn't want, an arkentool he probably wouldn't be able to attune to, and a "thank you" from the RCC?
    The above post made a lot more sense in my head.

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    Default Re: Plan Ansom: Decapitation strike!

    If Charlie knew about the dwagon farming he might be worried about Stanley say... Stabbing him in the face with 1000 dwagons in a few hunderd turns. He can't be happy about GK taking over the world. He will get curbstomped as soon as Stanley can do it. Its why he is probably messing with the gobwins.

    Of course, if Charlie says to everyone "hey look I'm a threat" he will get curb stomped. If the neutralish Charlie suddenly has a horse in the fight, who might he go after next? No, Charlie survives because no one bothers to take him out; he is not a threat, and he is heavily defended. He has a city. He will die if he gets the world annoyed at him.
    Last edited by Lamech; 2009-10-28 at 10:30 PM.
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  9. - Top - End - #9
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Plan Ansom: Decapitation strike!

    We don't know how fast archons move, in book 1 Charlie could get enough archons to GK to take it in a matter of a turn. Teleport may be involved.

    Charlie may be capable of getting 200+ archons of various lvls freed up (while others continue to make money or guard home).

    Yes some are tied up making money, but he only has one city to defend so less are tied up in defense.
    Last edited by multilis; 2009-10-29 at 12:07 PM.

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    Default Re: Plan Ansom: Decapitation strike!

    Quote Originally Posted by multilis View Post
    We don't know how fast archons move, in book 1 Charlie could get enough archons to GK to take it in a matter of a turn. Teleport may be involved.
    The key bit here comes from Parson's discussion with the Archons. The Archons have such fast response time because there are bunches of them stationed all over the place waiting to be activated. As Gobwin Knob was clearly a "hotspot," its safe to say those Archons were already in the vicinity.
    Why are things all… blocky? And what’s with this pickaxe?

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    Default Re: Plan Ansom: Decapitation strike!

    Screw Archons, it seems like Charlie convinced Jillian to do an airstrike herself.

    Question is, where is that airstrike headed?

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    Default Re: Plan Ansom: Decapitation strike!

    Quote Originally Posted by multilis View Post
    We don't know how fast archons move, in book 1 Charlie could get enough archons to GK to take it in a matter of a turn. Teleport may be involved.
    The number of archons that were needed to take GK then is very different than the number that would be needed now. And the teleport thing seems unlikely.
    The above post made a lot more sense in my head.

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    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Plan Ansom: Decapitation strike!

    Quote Originally Posted by TigerHunter View Post
    The number of archons that were needed to take GK then is very different than the number that would be needed now...
    Agreed. But if Charlie has surplus archons "sitting by hotspots", it is possible for him to move many of these archons towards GK.

    So rather than being able to field 30 archons in a turns notice, he may be able to field 100-300 if he wanted GK no more intel leaks, 2 tools and a mathomancy gadget that is almost as good as a tool badly enough.

    To a certain extent if you have units all over you have may have a sort of relay system which speeds up movement, eg if 50 archons return home, a different 50 from home can go further the same turn without reducing home defences.

    Obviously he would prefer to get them hired by locals so he gets paid twice, or use free labour/natural allies like Jillian first before sacrificing his own units.

    We know that GK can go after Charlie if they wanted (eg. if stanley found out about the gobwins), so Charlie can't be that far away.
    Last edited by multilis; 2009-10-29 at 09:47 PM.

  14. - Top - End - #14
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    Default Re: Plan Ansom: Decapitation strike!

    Relay system would be pointless with archons, here's why.

    They aren't mounts. Moving archons from point A to point B then moving archons from point b to a again would make no difference. The dragon relay works because you can have 1 unit move 10 dragons worth of move in a turn by having the dragon use its full move to get to a city, then using a dragon in tht city to use its full move and so on and so forth.

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    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Plan Ansom: Decapitation strike!

    Quote Originally Posted by Necrus Philius View Post
    Relay system would be pointless with archons, here's why.

    They aren't mounts. Moving archons from point A to point B then moving archons from point b to a again would make no difference. The dragon relay works because you can have 1 unit move 10 dragons worth of move in a turn by having the dragon use its full move to get to a city, then using a dragon in tht city to use its full move and so on and so forth.
    Suppose charlie has surplus 30 archons 1 turn east of home, and always needs 100 to guard home, and wishes 30 archons 1 turn west of home.

    Rather than take 2 turns, you send the archons east to home then a different 30 archons from home to the west spot in 1 turn.

    If you have bases all over the place you can shuffle surplus units using less turns, and there is flexibillity in being "near hotspot just in case" (eg can be 1 or more turns away in any direction).
    Last edited by multilis; 2009-10-30 at 02:27 AM.

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    Default Re: Plan Ansom: Decapitation strike!

    Quote Originally Posted by Necrus Philius View Post
    The dragon relay works because you can have 1 unit move 10 dragons worth of move in a turn by having the dragon use its full move to get to a city, then using a dragon in tht city to use its full move and so on and so forth.
    What are these dragons you speak of? Are they anything like dwagons?

    In any case, as multilis said, the Archon relay is a different goal than the dwagon relay. In the dwagon relay, the goal is to move a specific non-dwagon rider vast distances in a short period of time. The Archon relay's goal on the other hand is to get any Archons—it doesn't matter which ones—to a specific hotspot in a short period of time without sacrificing readiness at the nearest staging point.
    Why are things all… blocky? And what’s with this pickaxe?

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Plan Ansom: Decapitation strike!

    Hmm, that makes me wonder whether the archons could potentially do a trapeze-act style relay to propel their teammates onward (i.e. 2 carry 1, 3 carry 2 who hold a third in an upside-down triangular formation) - those carried on the first link use their move to carry others on the second, and those at the bottom use their move to go beyond the rest. Wouldn't be perfect by any means, and effectively it's a mechanism which would increase troops-to-target slightly while stranding a number of others en route, but it may be possible.


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    Default Re: Plan Ansom: Decapitation strike!

    The whole need for relay is because the world is based on game mechanics. You probably can't get a free ride unless the creature giving it to you is classified as a Mount.
    Why are things all… blocky? And what’s with this pickaxe?

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    Default Re: Plan Ansom: Decapitation strike!

    Ahh, but you're just assuming that. Has anyone (minds out of my gutter now, kiddies!) ever even tried to mount an archon? :)

    Y'know... For travel?
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    Default Re: Plan Ansom: Decapitation strike!

    Whether or not he did, the info wasn't in her letter to Don, so it's a mute point.
    "Moot" point. But yes, you are correct. Info that died with the queen is irrelevant.

    Quote Originally Posted by fangthane View Post
    Ahh, but you're just assuming that. Has anyone (minds out of my gutter now, kiddies!) ever even tried to mount an archon? :)

    Y'know... For travel?
    Since Parson can't ride a dwagon, I doubt anything bigger than a Marbit could ride an Archon... Maybe a Gobwin? *Crafts disturbing mental image*.

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    Default Re: Plan Ansom: Decapitation strike!

    Quote Originally Posted by Moglorosh View Post
    Maybe a Gobwin? *Crafts disturbing mental image*.
    Who was wondering why Gobwin's Knob can't find any Gobwins?
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  22. - Top - End - #22
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Plan Ansom: Decapitation strike!

    Quote Originally Posted by Shhalahr Windrider View Post
    The whole need for relay is because the world is based on game mechanics. You probably can't get a free ride unless the creature giving it to you is classified as a Mount.
    But we *know* that archons work as mounts... Charlie sent 3 archons to GK in book 1 to carry Parson to him (Parson declined and got Charlie to wait by giving 60% odds of beating Ansom).

    If 3 archons can lift Parson, and Parson is too heavy for a dragon to carry, but a single dragon *can* carry 2 regular units, then a single archon comes at least close to being able to carry a single regular unit. - Edit: qualification some archons may be better than others as transports due to leveling or their natural magic abillities.

    In some games, those that can carry others can't be carried themselves (eg Age of Wonders series).
    Last edited by multilis; 2009-10-30 at 10:12 PM.

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    Default Re: Plan Ansom: Decapitation strike!

    Quote Originally Posted by Moglorosh View Post
    "Moot" point. But yes, you are correct. Info that died with the queen is irrelevant.
    Given that the upkeep status of Decrypted would be valuable info, I can't see Bea letting it die with her. So it's extremely unlikely she ever learned this tidbit.

    Quote Originally Posted by multilis View Post
    But we *know* that archons work as mounts... Charlie sent 3 archons to GK in book 1 to carry Parson to him (Parson declined and got Charlie to wait by giving 60% odds of beating Ansom).
    Point taken.
    Why are things all… blocky? And what’s with this pickaxe?

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    Default Re: Plan Ansom: Decapitation strike!

    Quote Originally Posted by Demented View Post
    Who was wondering why Gobwin's Knob can't find any Gobwins?
    There's a likelihood that Charlie did something with the Gumps and Gobwins. We also know that Charlie strengthened Faq by helping them with an early conquest.

    My guess is that Charlie is:
    - attempting to weaken Gobwin Knob (Stanley hates Charlie)
    - strengthen the Coalition
    - play both sides against the other so he can hire out his services
    - making a bid for any number of magical toys (i.e. Parson's calculator and the Arkentools)
    - making a bid at capturing the "perfect general," so he can use employ him

    He's a sly one, that Charlie. He doesn't believe in a losing outcome.
    Last edited by LurkerInPlayground; 2009-11-03 at 02:13 PM.

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    Default Re: Plan Ansom: Decapitation strike!

    Quote Originally Posted by Shhalahr Windrider View Post
    Given that the upkeep status of Decrypted would be valuable info, I can't see Bea letting it die with her. So it's extremely unlikely she ever learned this tidbit.
    Charlie doesn't know about Gobwin Knob's newfound gem wealth.

  26. - Top - End - #26
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    Default Re: Plan Ansom: Decapitation strike!

    I have two guesses

    1. Charlie has been moving the marbits into the surrounding mountains and destroying the local gobwin tribes. Using the marbits, he's been watching Stanley's trips out to find wild dwagons and is going to use that information to veil units in each of the mountain hexes closest to GK. They let Stanley fly out, and then hit him on the way back in.

    2. Hit GK with marbits, archons, and Jillian's airforce and ground troops (which she has made just enough of to mount each gwiff)
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    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Plan Ansom: Decapitation strike!

    Quote Originally Posted by grumbleboom View Post
    I have two guesses

    1. Charlie has been moving the marbits into the surrounding mountains and destroying the local gobwin tribes. Using the marbits, he's been watching Stanley's trips out to find wild dwagons and is going to use that information to veil units in each of the mountain hexes closest to GK. They let Stanley fly out, and then hit him on the way back in...
    Supposedly that is impossible if Stanley scouts with archons and returns to GK every turn... archons are suppose to be immune to veils according to Parson's original discussion with Stanley on the dragon hunting.

    Though in practical terms no one really knows what is possible, for example linking up 3 thinkomancers might do nothing or might give unheard of powers to get into the minds of enemy units.
    Last edited by multilis; 2009-11-03 at 06:12 PM.

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    Default Re: Plan Ansom: Decapitation strike!

    It's probably simpler. Marbits and Gobwins probably hate each other. Charlie is probably just giving strategic support and funding to the Marbits, ensuring that they'll quietly wipe out Gobwins.

    Basically, the same thing he did with Jill. Free service. But you keep mum about it. He doesn't need a whole lot of Archons to enact his will and he probably has unknown Thinkamancy powers that help.

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    Default Re: Plan Ansom: Decapitation strike!

    Quote Originally Posted by multilis View Post
    But we *know* that archons work as mounts... Charlie sent 3 archons to GK in book 1 to carry Parson to him (Parson declined and got Charlie to wait by giving 60% odds of beating Ansom).
    Archons have random special abilities.

    Those special abilities might be drawn from a very large list indeed.

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    Default Re: Plan Ansom: Decapitation strike!

    Quote Originally Posted by Shhalahr Windrider View Post
    Given that the upkeep status of Decrypted would be valuable info, I can't see Bea letting it die with her. So it's extremely unlikely she ever learned this tidbit.
    Of course, the fact that a decrypted unit has no upkeep would be immedietely apparent to any erfworld unit) or indeed Parson, if he has the glasses) that encounters it.

    Tidbit, yes. But the first battle that leaves any survivors should spread the nature of decrypted to common knowledge within erfworld.


    As for the mount discussion, I would point people to the summer updates where it was shown that any unit can become an archer unit, simply by using a missile weapon, they will simply be ineffective as one. Similarly we were shown that Parson cannot ride Dwagons, despite them being a mount unit. From this we can draw a conclusion that any unit can be a mount unit, but the efficiency of, say, a twoll, will be less than a horse, rug, dwagon or group of archons.


    On a side note of page 4 the newer updates, given that lots of dwagons and decrypted archons are with Ansom; an airstrike by charlie, Transylvito or even Faq (with their new allies) could probably level Gobwin Knob, killing both Parson and Stanley, and reducing the threat of the decrypted by making them barbarian.

    Though for plot purposes I doubt this will happen, there would be at least a few turns wherein this is a viable strategy, as all those archons and dwagons would take quite some time to return home.

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