Long: Please review my house rules and comment.

[lsfreak]

I'm sure I'll be majorly ninja'd.

@Blackfang108 and @Tyndmyr
Hehe. I corrected Tome's spelling :) That book has some crazy stuff in it (and I don't have it)
No psionics just to make things simpler for me at the beginning. I will probably allow it later. For now, I'll do without the complications (and multiple actions) that many psionic powers allow.

Psionics is less gamebreaking than wizards and sorcerers, though for the sake of simplicity I understand banning it.
As for ToB, suffice to say that ToB still isn't as powerful as a mid-level wizard or cleric or druid, and doesn't even deal as much damage as a well-built fighter or barbarian. It's just the ToB starts out well-built without trying, while you have to know what you're doing to make a fighter stand a chance. I'd seriously suggest banning all melee but ToB characters rather than the reverse if you're worried about some players being more powerful than others.

@Kylarra and @Boci and @Tyndmyr and @Myou
There are some killer reserves out there. The one that teleports you away as an immediate action each round, and the one that gives you an elemental all day will put too much of a power differential between those who will (ab)use it and those you don't know what a reserve feat is. I do plan on allowing reasonable uses of Reserve Feat, which is why it says"(ask)" after it.

The teleport is an ACF for a wizard (which, since your ruling on not being able to actually use familiars, you'd be an idiot NOT to take). The Summon Elemental one is practically worthless except for setting off traps.

I do not want them to ever custom buy magic items. I want to keep strict control over it, for my sanity, and the fact that a few of my players will have no clue what to buy, and a few will know too well. At that point my banned magic item list will grow to 3 pages...
It falls upon me to make sure the new character gets a bunch of items quickly.

As long as they get them quickly. A better option might be to have a list of items that you can choose from and say, "you have a belt of ogres strength +4, a +1 keen greatsword, and a +1 mithril breastplate" rather than no items.

I am afraid of kobolds because of all the dragon blood cheese things that can happen.

Ban epic feats and loredrakes for dragonwrought kobolds.

If I have missed an OP tactic, please let me know.

We have no idea what your definition of "OP" is (you seem to be fine with batman wizards but don't like rogues hitting for almost anything?), and even if we did there's, quite frankly, too many to name.

I have seen Robillar Gambit used by one of my players to make an invincible fighter

Fly + Mirror Image + Displacement makes wizards as invincible as a Robilar's Gambit fighter, I don't see you banning those. Let alone Celerity, Timestop, Polymorph, Shapechange, Gate, Web, Glitterdust, Solid Fog, Greater Teleport.
[I think what most of us are basically saying is, you see big numbers given by fighters and that deludes you into thinking "overpowered." It's a common misconception that lots of dice = power and a perfectly understandable one, but suffice to say that melee has the short end of the power]

Grappling and tripping had to be banned when a certain person started doing it to dragons and larger. Please do not suggest I ban players ;)

If dragons were in range of them, they deserved to be tripped. Seriously, if a dragon LANDS, it deserves to die. Also, if they built their character that much around tripping (they would have needed Enlarge Person and a huge number of bonuses to reliably trip a Huge dragon), then they have horrible weaknesses elsewhere. Anything that doesn't land, for example. Banning something because, when focused on to the exclusion of something else, is looked down upon on these forums.

Palor is in every way better than a generic Cleric, and completely destroys any thread of my throwing undead at them.

Most PrC's worth taking are in every way better than their base. Loremaster is better than wizard, frenzied berserker is better than barbarian, assassin is better than rogue.

Not sure why people call Craven balanced. I have yet to meet a rogue that thought another feat is better than +20 (at lvl 20) per sneak attack. Would you call a feat that adds 6d6 to each sneak attack balanced (average damage +21)? I think there is a feat that adds 1d6. So starting at character level 4, Craven makes the other feat obsolete.

Power Attack does the same. Improved Trip 'obsoletes' Weapon Focus. Empower and Split Ray and Quicken are effectively no-brainers.

The limit of 1 action per player is to make combat go faster. Even at 2 actions limit per player, I would have some players that take the spotlight for twice as long as another. Uncontrolled "minions" follow the party like sleep-walkers.

And it severely cripples any build that has multiple guys. Summoners, necromancers, enchanters, bards, paladins, rangers.

[Kylarra]

Sometimes I think you two are talking to yourself with those avatars.
I disagree, though. Rules change people's behavior, that's why they exist.

Rules limit their behavior, but if they're going to be jerks with no limits, they'll still be jerks with limits, and just try to find loopholes.

[Tyndmyr]

Sometimes I think you two are talking to yourself with those avatars.
I disagree, though. Rules change people's behavior, that's why they exist.

No, rules change the game. They don't change the people. If people want to be jerks, they will be jerks. You can play candy land and still be an ass. This has absolutely nothing to do with the rules, and if you can't get over this adversarial crap, the game will suck regardless of how many houserules you throw at it.

[Milskidasith]

I'm not sure why you're so hostile to someone who has admitted they haven't played in 10 years and wants to tone the power in their game down, and has come to the community for help in doing so.

I'm not sure why you think all of my commentary is hostile, and have taken time in every post mentioning me to piont it out. It's constructive criticism, which is what was asked for.

The way that it's been toned down is to make melee characters unbuffable and only able to say "I charge" or "I full attack" while allowing them only the bare minimum of damage increases, while casters get absolutely no nerfs besides strange ones (banning kobolds, a weak race entirely, because of a theoretical cheese you could just ban instead?)

[Myrmex]

How the heck can you be a jerk at candyland?

I'm not sure why you think all of my commentary is hostile, and have taken time in every post mentioning me to piont it out. It's constructive criticism, which is what was asked for.

The deliberate use of sarcasm.

The way that it's been toned down is to make melee characters unbuffable and only able to say "I charge" or "I full attack" while allowing them only the bare minimum of damage increases, while casters get absolutely no nerfs besides strange ones (banning kobolds, a weak race entirely, because of a theoretical cheese you could just ban instead?)

Um, there's no DMM or the most broken of caster prcs. The nerf to minions is great. If there was an exception for mounted warrior types and rangers, then it would work. As it is, a paladin can't actually charge on his warhorse.

He's also getting rid of polymorph effects, which basically turns your familiar into a horrible monstrosity, and lets the level 3 wizard out fight the party melee.

[edit]
Kobold is in no way a weak race. It's on par with human.

[Boci]

How the heck can you be a jerk at candyland?

I don't know the game but you can be a jerk OOC so thats all games covered by default.

[monkey3]

OK, I will reply here, but I don't know how to reply to multiple posts.

@Kylarra and @Tyndmyr
"Dimensional Jaunt is a standard action to teleport 5'*spell level, hardly game breaking, perhaps you're thinking of Abrupt Jaunt, the ACF for conjurers in PHB2?"
Thanks for the correction. I fear them both. The first makes the shadow jump trivial, as well as many traps. The second is just crazy. Added Ban:Abrupt Jaunt; thanks.

@Myrmex
Thanks. I will keep an eye out for the calling spells (like Gate, Planar Binding, and Planar Ally). My group is pretty stingy about spending experience, but it is on my watch list. Remember, while your summon is doing something, you are not!
Added Ban:"Darkstalker & Mindsight." Although I might allow Darkstalker at some point (if the rogue feels underpowered).



Others:
Banning players is not acceptable. We are all friends, and they play within the rules. That's why I need so many rules. Escalating the monster CR to match the OP player does not work because it makes the novice players even more insignificant, even if the monster mysteriously ignores them and goes after the min/maxer.

To those saying I am taking some of the flavor out of the game, I agree. It is a balancing act that I have to watch, and make sure I don't overdo the limitations vs. options. As I get more comfortable with the game, and my players relax into teamwork, my intention is to add back in as many rules as I can.

As always, thanks for the comments.

[Kylarra]

How the heck can you be a jerk at candyland?

Same way you can be a jerk in real life without any games going on?

[Tyndmyr]

To those saying I am taking some of the flavor out of the game, I agree. It is a balancing act that I have to watch, and make sure I don't overdo the limitations vs. options. As I get more comfortable with the game, and my players relax into teamwork, my intention is to add back in as many rules as I can.

As always, thanks for the comments.

Flavor, hell. You've taken effective melee characters out of the game.

[Myrmex]

Same way you can be a jerk in real life without any games going on?

Ok.
But that's irrelevant.

I can be a really nice guy OOC and still make your character entirely useless.

[Kylarra]

OK, I will reply here, but I don't know how to reply to multiple posts.

@Kylarra and @Tyndmyr
"Dimensional Jaunt is a standard action to teleport 5'*spell level, hardly game breaking, perhaps you're thinking of Abrupt Jaunt, the ACF for conjurers in PHB2?"
Thanks for the correction. I fear them both. The first makes the shadow jump trivial, as well as many traps. The second is just crazy. Added Ban:Abrupt Jaunt; thanks.

... when did shadow jump, an ability for a single PrC, set a precedent for what a wizard can or cannot do?

In light of making other things trivial, I propose you ban: Druid, Cleric, Wizard, Sorcerer, Favored Soul, Beguiler, Dread Necromancer, Bard, Duskblade, and Factotum.

[Boci]

Banning players is not acceptable. We are all friends, and they play within the rules. That's why I need so many rules. Escalating the monster CR to match the OP player does not work because it makes the novice players even more insignificant, even if the monster mysteriously ignores them and goes after the min/maxer.

I would not need these houserules to play with anyone I call a friend.

[Blackfang108]

@Kylarra and @Tyndmyr
"Dimensional Jaunt is a standard action to teleport 5'*spell level, hardly game breaking, perhaps you're thinking of Abrupt Jaunt, the ACF for conjurers in PHB2?"
Thanks for the correction. I fear them both. The first makes the shadow jump trivial, as well as many traps. The second is just crazy. Added Ban:Abrupt Jaunt; thanks.

What's Shadow Jump?

And Dimension Jaunt is by no means overpowered. I've played with it, and DM'd over it. It's too short to truly mess up anything, and there are better uses for a standard action in combat.

[Myrmex]

I would not need these houserules to play with anyone I call a friend.

But he does.

[Jayabalard]

Well yes, obviously there are worse races.

The point is, he's banning a race, when there are better, unbanned options available. This makes the ban pointless.

Not really, it just means that therre are other races that need banning as well that the OP didn't mention.

I would not need these houserules to play with anyone I call a friend.

plenty of people play with people who aren't friends.

[Tavar]

Shadow jump already is trivial. Seriously, the PrC it comes with is only decent for a 1-2 level dip, and even then you have to spend so many feats that it's not worth it. Plus, it's insanely limited. You know what else makes it trivial; Horizen Walkers with the Shifting planar terrain feature. And it's easier to qualify for, and is a better PrC overall.

[Kylarra]

Ok.
But that's irrelevant.

I can be a really nice guy OOC and still make your character entirely useless.

Sure, but you can also be a jerk OOC and make a character entirely useless.

Jerkitude is not something that will be remedied by houserules.

[Myrmex]

Shadow jump already is trivial. Seriously, the PrC it comes with is only decent for a 1-2 level dip, and even then you have to spend so many feats that it's not worth it. Plus, it's insanely limited. You know what else makes it trivial; Horizen Walkers with the Shifting planar terrain feature. And it's easier to qualify for, and is a better PrC overall.

HiPS as a dip is REALLY nice. You need what, 5 or 6 levels to get the shifting planar feature?

Jerkitude is not something that will be remedied by houserules.

The problem, though, is not OOC jerkitude, but RAW jerkitude.

[Blackfang108]

The problem, though, is not OOC jerkitude, but RAW jerkitude.

Which is always an extension of OOC Jearkitude.

[Tavar]

HiPS as a dip is REALLY nice. You need what, 5 or 6 levels to get the shifting planar feature?

6, but he's not talking about HiPS, he's talking about Shadow Jump, which the Horizen walker does better.

[Kylarra]

The problem, though, is not OOC jerkitude, but RAW jerkitude.

The problem is that you don't seem to be connecting the two. RAW jerkitude is by extension OOC jerkitude if you're building characters that obsolete others without trying to help them.

[Tyndmyr]

But he does.

No, he *thinks* he does.

If he truly does, he needs new friends.

[Kylarra]

No, he *thinks* he does.

If he truly does, he needs new friends.

Well either that or a game that doesn't reward game mastery to the same level that 3.X does.

[Myrmex]

Which is always an extension of OOC Jearkitude.

Not really.
It's often a product of miscommunication.

If someone for monkey3's game came on here and asked for help optimizing a character using current RAW, I can guarantee you GitP would give him a character that was too powerful for monkey3's game. Does that make us all jerks?

Explicit house rules are 100% necessary for a functional game.

6, but he's not talking about HiPS, he's talking about Shadow Jump, which the Horizen walker does better.

I guess what I am saying is that Horizon Walker (teleporting) is good for a different reason than Shadow Dancer is (HiPS).

No, he *thinks* he does.

If he truly does, he needs new friends.

Well either that or a game that doesn't reward game mastery to the same level that 3.X does.

Seriously.

[Boci]

Well either that or a game that doesn't reward game mastery to the same level that 3.X does.

Or players willing to share their mastery of the game with the newbies. Common courtesy as its also known.

Explicit house rules are 100% necessary for a functional game.

I currently have 2 games which no such house rules. How long until they collapse?

[Blackfang108]

Well either that or a game that doesn't reward game mastery to the same level that 3.X does.

4e?

CoC?

[Kylarra]

4e?

CoC?

4e does have a few system mastery tricks, though not on as great of a scale as 3.X, but I did think of that as well.

Or players willing to share their mastery of the game with the newbies. Common courtesy as its also known.

Well yeah, that's part of the OOC jerkitude I was talking about before.

[AstralFire]

Not really.
It's often a product of miscommunication.

If someone for monkey3's game came on here and asked for help optimizing a character using current RAW, I can guarantee you GitP would give him a character that was too powerful for monkey3's game. Does that make us all jerks?

Explicit house rules are 100% necessary for a functional game.

For this reason, when encountering new or inexperienced players, I constantly repeat "but play as appropriate to your game's power level," or some variation thereof.

[lsfreak]

Can we get back to critiquing house rules instead of comparing friends?

@monkey3:
The biggest problem is that you're trying to ban everything that you deem "overpowered." The problem is that *anything* that helps someone to focus in on a specific role can be seen as "overpowered."

Another problem is you're looking at it small-picture. You don't like Craven because it gives ~6d6 extra damage. Now look at the 2nd-level spell Glitterdust, which will effectively kills every single guy that fails the same. This is a second-level spell. There are countless spells that are more powerful; you'd have to literally spend days doing nothing but going through books to ban them. Now consider that no melee can come close to doing something like that, except to deal a large amount of damage and drop the guy in a single hit. The problem being that the fighter is still limited to killing one guy a round, while the wizard just took out an entire encounter. It's simply not possible to balance the game in the way you seem to want to.

You're also looking to class features as guidelines, to make sure things don't overlap, when WotC had no concept of making good classes in the first place. So you're trying to balance a game around making sure that no one is able to reproduce an already-****ty class feature.

[Blackfang108]

Well yeah, that's part of the OOC jerkitude I was talking about before.

And I learned system mastery from a long-time player. That is houw the art of Charop should be passed on through the ages.

"I come from the Blackfang School of Charop!"

"Your grandmaster was a chump! I come from the Sinfire Titan School of Charop!"

Third: "Fight it out, and we shall see who's Char-Fu is Stronger!"

Oh...

oh no...

I think I just found Jackie Chan's new movie.