[3.5 Tome of Battle Discipline] Chthonic Serpent (PEACH)

[LunarWolfPrime]

This class needs a PRC, I am thinking a Spike Chain wielding Shadow Hand and Chthonic Serpent based one. What would be cool if it allowed one to wield a spike chain one handed. so we can have a TWF master of the style.

An before some one says one handed spike chains is broken. there is a Drow ranger prc that allows them to the same thing.

[DragoonWraith]

I was about to say, that sounds very similar to a certain Drow PrC. Hmm. A Sublime re-write of said PrC might be interesting.

If I made a PrC for this, I think it would probably be closer to the Dervish than anything else. Cuz whirling chains are cool.

[LunarWolfPrime]

Agreed, that would be cool. but I would have clever wrestler be a pre req and that stance that lets you grapple things bigger then you as well.

I see the class giving the bonus from clever wrestler to making pins in addition to the normal effect of it.

But I think both PRC'S work. But the 1st should not be a Drow only prc. An I see the Dervish one doing the same dual wield trick except it could be done with other weapons from the style if they are two handed weapons and have Over sized TWF as a pre rep as well. That way the pen is minimized.

OK I have had a few ideas that you may like.

Ok a Pure Chthonic Serpent called the Master of the Serpent Chains

I all so see a Shadow Hand / Chthonic Serpent that is called The Black Anaconda. A Stealthy chain based grapple rpc that allows you to dual wield Spike Chains as them be able to be used as 10ft reach weapons.

I also see a Iron Heart / Chthonic Serpent one called the Iron Serpent. based off of the whirling of he chains around to act as a defensive and offensive weapon and still being able to react in either action, fluidly. I see it mostly doing special counters and grappling multiple enemy's at once and not just one at a time

I also see a Tiger Claw / Chthonic Serpent one called the Savage Viper. I see this one being down with the Kusari-Gama of the double Kusari-Gama due to it being similar to a Kama on one end('s). An it being a more fast an furious version of the style with more vicious strikes and a maybe a crit range boost that is scaled up as you take lvls in the prc and may be having a 18-20 by the time you take all the 5 or 10 lvls in the prc. I aslo see this one allowing the user to make a constriction attack while the enemy is grappled with him in the chains out side of the Chthonic Serpent maneuvers, that allow constrict your enemy's. Much like the Rending constriction feat.

[Eldan]

Not necessarily exclusive to what's been said above: make one based on that picture you showed earlier for a high level serpent adept, focused on supreme control of the chains.

[LunarWolfPrime]

I was thinking about that, as a the Tiger Claw/Chthonic Serpent one. I see the the double being a double reach weapon. Think, kamas damage type and size with 25 feet of chain between each handle. Which if that does work then you got some thing that looks like the guy on the 1st page.

Funny thing is if you got a good eye for scaling and judging by eye. Which I may a be a a little off in that actuality looks like the guy in the pic as a 25 feet of chain in total on his weapon.

[elliott20]

instinctive, unless each combination is DRASTICALLY different from one another, I don't actually see a need for different combos. The combo by themselves will already differentiate between themselves dramatically, I think.

a couple of feats for each combo though, WOULD be cool.

[LunarWolfPrime]

Well I like the prc idea but the feat idea works.

Speaking of feats this needs tact feat and some other feats.

Like this one.

Serpent's Hideout
Prerequisite: Dex 15, Int 13, Combat Expertise, Combat Reflexes or Improved Feint, Improved Initiative, Weapon Focus (any whip or chain-like weapon)
Benefit: With a standard action, you can hide a chain or a whip in any kind of soft terrain (sand, grass, water). You get a bonus of +4 to the Hide check. If an opponent fails his Spot or Sense Motive check and attacks you entering the area you threat, you can raise the weapon fast and get an attack of opportunity that negates the opponent dexterity with an additional 1d6 to the damage.
Special: A Fighter can select Serpent's Hideout as a Bonus Feat.

Thank you Caracol and theSwampgas Project

[DragoonWraith]

I like the idea, but jesus that is a lot of pre-reqs. Not to mention it's highly situational. I also have some thoughts on feats of my own, but I haven't hammered out the details because I've been working on the Dancer.

EDIT: Added two multiclass feats; I want to add another which replaces another feat a la Evasive Reflexes or Desert Wind Dodge, and I also need to create a Tactical feat for the class.

Also detailed the Wondrous Item for the discipline.

As for the legacy weapon... I don't like the mechanics behind them, A., and B., it doesn't really fit with the background to the discipline. There is no "tenth sword" here, and the Chthonic Serpent just doesn't have that kind of notoriety.

[Surgo]

This discipline was the first to use the D&D Wiki's new Martial Maneuver framework -- you can view the results here!

We still need to upload the feats and other stuff, though.

[DragoonWraith]

Oh yeah, forgot about those. Will do.

Thanks for setting that up.

[The Gilded Duke]

This is amazing.

Two things come to mind immediately.

With Rapture Rose, it is a fourth level power, why not allow the ranged attack in any direction they want? I could see an initiator swinging a whip around, disarming a mooks sword, and then having the sword fly into another enemy twenty feet away.

I absolutely love Bonds of Jormungandr

One request that I would absolutely love you for.

Ever since my first dnd game I have wanted to lasso a dragon.
Only you can make this possible.
Or, harpooning something and holding on until it dies.

[elliott20]

This discipline was the first to use the D&D Wiki's new Martial Maneuver framework -- you can view the results here!

We still need to upload the feats and other stuff, though.

You won't be satisfied until my net book is hosted on your Wiki, are you?

[Surgo]

You won't be satisfied until my net book is hosted on your Wiki, are you?

I don't want to go off-topic from this wonderful discipline so this will be my last post about the issue: I've pretty much accepted that the wiki is a never-ending project, so I'll probably never be 'satisfied' in that sense.

I would love to host everything in your new book.

[DragoonWraith]

This is amazing.

Thanks!

With Rapture Rose, it is a fourth level power, why not allow the ranged attack in any direction they want? I could see an initiator swinging a whip around, disarming a mooks sword, and then having the sword fly into another enemy twenty feet away.

Well, I feel like it stretches credibility a bit, but... eh, it makes it much simpler to describe mechanically, so I'm inclined to agree.

I absolutely love Bonds of Jormungandr

Yeah, I'm thrilled with how that turned out.

One request that I would absolutely love you for.

Ever since my first dnd game I have wanted to lasso a dragon.
Only you can make this possible.
Or, harpooning something and holding on until it dies.

Well, there's a harpoon in Frostburn - I certainly considered it as a possible associated weapon, and the only reason it's not is because I felt like the list was getting too long. I don't know if there's a lasso printed anywhere, but with this you could use a whip like a lasso, I'd think. Then it's just a matter of being the right size (and the first level stance will help with that), and making the grapple check.

[The Gilded Duke]

Yeah, the actual harpoon and lasso bit isn't too important.
More the taking some sort of rope / chain weapon and binding the wings of a flying creature, and either climbing on board, or pulling it to the ground.

Or the grabbing on to a much more powerful creature, and trying to hold on for dear life until it dies as it drags you through the sky/sea.


The first one might be easier to do, maybe you can use the Cthonic Serpant weapons to make a trip attack, and if you beat the flying creature in the trip attack, it loses its flying speed. You can then initiate a grapple as a free action, as long as the flying creature stays grappled it is unable to fly.

Which leads to fun stuff if this happens a thousand feet up in the air.

[DragoonWraith]

Hmm... that strikes me as something that should be added to normal grapple rules, rather than included as part of a discipline.

Ooh. How about something like, instead of being unable to grapple something too large for you, you can but it's different, instead you cling to it and it has to carry you (take your weight as encumbrance), and suffer various other penalties, while you can still attack it and distract it. Might be interesting...

[DragoonWraith]

Added a new feat, finally. I've got my replace-another-feat feat.

[Surgo]

I noticed the feats weren't on the wiki, so I went ahead and uploaded them. I'll do the monster later too.

[houkama]

Why is their no save for the Con damage strikes? That seems out of balance with other disciplines ability damaging strikes. Mountain Tombstone doesn't but it is a ninth level maneuver so I think that's excusable.

[Just to Browse]

I believe it's because the Constitution damage is about half as much as Stone Dragon deals. Not being a person who has ever used Stone Dragon as written and as I am currently AFB, I'm relying on a fix from the internet, so perhaps my observations are just a facet of that specific fix.