Results 1 to 9 of 9
  1. Top - End - #1
    Banned
     
    DragoonWraith's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Gender
    Male

    Default [3.5 Prestige Class] Holy Knight (PEACH)


    The forces of chaos are persistent; even the tracest amounts of demonic blood can corrupt entire family lines. Even though the fey are not evil, their blood, too, takes its hold and can make its presence known generations later.

    Not so with goodness and law. Though Celestial blood is a boon to those blessed with it, the heaven-touched are far fewer in number than the tainted ones. Upholding just and good laws takes effort, takes constant reiteration of solemn vows and pacts to maintain what is good in the world.

    Those knights who pledge themselves to the good and to justice, may find their blessings given unto them in many forms. Some gods grant spells while others inspiration. Among a select few, however, their gods have given unto them a small portion of divine essence - similar to that which flows through the veins of the Aasimar, but infused more strongly to their soul than to their blood. Such ones have holiness incorporated into their bodies, and they can no more lose it than can an angel - even should one fall into the darkest depths of depravity, a small, shining light will nonetheless remain in their souls, fighting to stop their own evil.

    Such pacts are traditionally answers to the fiend-touched, especially warlocks, whose risky if not evil pacts with chaotic or evil forces taint their very souls much in the same way the holy knight's pact blesses her own. The pacts are always specific in nature, but usually state less of a goal and more of a devotion to right a wrong, to bring vengeance against the wicked, and to defend all that is good and just against such evil.

    These Holy Knights are some of the most practical and vigilant defenders of the faith. Their vows typically have them deep within unknown or hostile territory, and they know all too well that often the best they can do is only a small, token effort against the tides of chaos. Holy Knights are often found protecting small pockets of goodness - especially people they believe to be hope for salvation - amidst incredible evil and danger. While they believe that chaos inevitably leads to evil, even among good men, they also tend to recognize that the good is the ultimate goal, not law - and sometimes, achieving the good is all one can hope for.

    Prerequisites
    • Feats
      • Sacred Vow
      • Must not have taken a Vow of Nonviolence, Peace, or Purity.
    • Class Features
      • Smite feature
    • Maneuvers
      • One Devoted Spirit Maneuver
      • One Devoted Spirit Stance
      • Must not have any ability to channel negative energy
      • Must not have any Eldritch Blast feature
    • Alignment
      • Lawful Good
    • Skills
      • Intimidate 4 ranks
      • Knowledge (Religion) 8 ranks


    Hit Die
    d10

    Skills
    Skill Points per Level
    4 + Int modifier

    Class Skills
    The following skills (and key ability modifiers for each skill) are all class skills of the Holy Knight: Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Gather Information (Cha), Handle Animal (Cha), Heal (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (History) (Int), Knowledge (Local) (Int), Knowledge (Nobility and Royalty), Knowledge (Religion) (Int), Martial Lore (Int), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Search (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), Spellcraft (Int), and Survival (Wis).

    Class Features
    The following are all class features of Holy Knights:
    {table=head]Level | BAB | Fort | Ref | Will | Special | Known | Readied | Stances | Invocations
    1st | +1 | +2 | +0 | +2 | Personal Oath, Smite, Turn Undead, Least Invocations, Weapon Magic | +0 | +0 | +0 | +1
    2nd | +2 | +3 | +0 | +3 | Shield Magic x | +0 | +0 | +0 | +0
    3rd | +3 | +3 | +1 | +3 | Steely Resolve +5, Furious Counterstrike | +1 | +0 | +0 | +0
    4th | +4 | +4 | +1 | +4 | Lesser Invocations | +0 | +0 | +0 | +1
    5th | +5 | +4 | +1 | +4 | Shield Magic x1 | +0 | +1 | +0 | +0
    6th | +6 | +5 | +2 | +5 | Smite +1/day | +1 | +0 | +0 | +0
    7th | +7 | +5 | +2 | +5 | Steely Resolve +10, Greater Invocations | +0 | +0 | +0 | +1
    8th | +8 | +6 | +2 | +6 | Shield Magic x2 | +0 | +0 | +1 | +0
    9th | +9 | +6 | +3 | +6 | Rightful Vengeance | +1 | +0 | +0 | +0
    10th | +10 | +7 | +3 | +7 | Smite +1/day, Heavenly Invocations | +0 | +0 | +0 | +1 [/table]
    Armor and Weapon Proficiencies
    Holy Knights gain proficiency in the Short Sword, Longsword, and Greatsword if they do not already have it. They also gain proficiency in Light and Medium Armors and Shields (but not Tower Shields) if they do not have those.

    Personal Oath (Ex)
    A Holy Knight takes a very personal vow, a pact between she and her deity, or even between her and the very essences of good and law in the cosmos itself. In general, a Holy Knight is pledged to upholding good and law, but the divine power granted to Holy Knights is rarely offered just for that; simply granting spells or inspiration is the usual recourse for these things. A Holy Knight is extraordinary, and circumstances must be so dire as to require a Holy Knight's creation. The Holy Knight must pledge to protect someone or something that she (and her deity) considers crucial to the goals of goodness and law, or else to right some massive wrong that has been done. A Holy Knight is not restricted to only fulfilling this vow; indeed she does also vow to protect and further goodness and law in all her actions, but this is the reason why she requests such a blessing from her deity.

    This pact requires 5,000 gp in relics, incense, prayerbooks, and the like, a week spent in prayer and meditation, and the expenditure of 200 XP. It further requires the deity's agreement with her plan and fulfillment of the divine blessing necessary for her powers as a Holy Knight. This requires a great deal of trust on the deity's part, because this power is given totally to the Holy Knight, and is not easily rescinded. A fallen Holy Knight is typically killed by one of the deity's champions, rather than any attempt to revoke her powers, because doing so is simply more difficult than it is worth. This ritual may be completed by any character who meets the Holy Knight's pre-requisites, and while a character may take levels of Holy Knight without completing the Oath, she cannot use any Invocations (including Weapon Magic and Shield Magic) until she does.

    The Vow imbues the Holy Knight with the Divine Power necessary to use her Invocations. It also prevents the Holy Knight from ever channeling negative energy or using Warlock Invocations - the Warlock class may not be taken at all by a Holy Knight (or rather, anyone with Warlock blood could not have become a Holy Knight in the first place), and taking any class feature or feat which grants the ability to channel negative energy is simply ignored (but may be taken for whatever other features it has available if desired).

    A Holy Knight who has failed in her oath, or has discovered for whatever reason that there is either a more important cause to serve or that her original cause was not worthy, but remains true to the good and the law, may repeat the ritual at a cost of 1,000 gp and 40 XP, and another three days in prayer and meditation, in order to establish a new vow. Before a Holy Knight who has for whatever reason stopped following her oath does these things, however, she takes a -5 penalty on the save DCs of her Weapon Magic abilities, and can only absorb half as much damage per ally with Shield Magic as normal.

    If a Holy Knight succeeds in her oath, she does not take any penalty. She may take a new oath by the same process, and gains a +2 bonus on the DCs of her Weapon Magic abilities for as long as she currently has an oath. She may not have more than one at a time. The normal penalties apply if she abandons this oath, but unlike a Holy Knight who has not already fulfilled an oath, she may repeat the ritual to simply end her current oath, losing the penalties but also not gaining back the bonus. She must, of course, have a good reason why she has quit her oath, but most deities look favorably upon Holy Knights who have already fulfilled an oath, provided there is not some absolutely crucial business that the Holy Knight is needed for.

    A Holy Knight falls if she abandons her oath, and turns from goodness or law. However, a Holy Knight's Divine infusion is not simply revoked, and so she retains her powers, though she takes the usual penalties for abandoning her oath. A Holy Knight who has slipped from good, even just to neutrality, is typically viewed as among the greatest traitors in her deity's faith, and the deity may very likely feel personally betrayed by this turn of events, and attempt to have champions hunt down the traitor, or in extreme cases even take matters into his own hands. A non-lawful but good Holy Knight is typically viewed as more of a failure than a traitor, though particularly lawful deities may very well feel differently.

    Smite (Su)
    A Holy Knight's class levels stack with any other character classes for the purposes of determining Smite damage.

    At 5th and again at 10th, the Holy Knight gains an extra use of Smite per day.

    Turn Undead (Su)
    A Holy Knight's class levels stack with any other character class for the purpose of turning the undead, if the Holy Knight already had this ability. If the Holy Knight did not have this ability, then she does not gain it.

    Invocations (Sp)
    The Divine energy that Holy Knights have been granted allow them to cast certain Divine "invocations" at will. These are spell-like abilities, but unlike most spell-like abilities, they do require a very simple somatic component - swinging the Holy Knight's weapon. As such, they are not subject to Arcane Spell Failure, but nevertheless cannot be performed while bound or otherwise unable to make a swinging or stabbing motion with one's weapon. They all also require any weapon as a focus component (though a Monk or character with the Improved Unarmed Strike feat may treat their own fists as weapons for the purposes of this component). Despite the existence of free weapons, the Eschew Materials feat does not obviate the requirement for a weapon focus.

    As spell-like abilities, Invocations require a Standard Action to invoke, and provoke attacks of opportunity. They may be disrupted as spells, and the Holy Knight is entitled to a Concentration check to save the spell. The Holy Knight may also use a Concentration check to avoid provoking an attack of opportunity, exactly as a spellcaster might.

    The four types of invocation available to the Holy Knight are Least, Lesser, Greater, and Heavenly. In addition to the type of invocation, all invocations have a spell level equivalency for the purposes of determining Concentration check DCs and how the invocations interact with spell effects such as Globe of Invulnerability which function based on spell level.

    A Holy Knight's caster level for her Invocations is equal to her Base Attack Bonus.

    The Holy Knight learns one invocation at 1st level, and every three levels thereafter (4th, 7th, and 10th). At 1st level, only Least Invocations may be learned. At 4th and above, Least or Lesser Invocations may be learned. At 7th and above, Least, Lesser, and Greater Invocations may be learned. At 9th and above, Least, Lesser, Greater, and Heavenly Invocations may be learned.

    Further, at 2nd, 5th, 8th, and 10th levels, a Holy Knight may choose to lose access to any single invocation and replace it with any invocation of the same level.

    Weapon Magic (Sp)
    The most notable of the Invocations that a Holy Knight learns is traditionally known as "Sword Magic", though a sword isn't necessary at all, any weapon will work. As a Standard Action, a Holy Knight may attack a single target within 15 feet to deal her weapon's damage plus Charisma modifier, plus her Furious Counterstrike bonus damage, if she has any.

    Her target is allowed a Reflex save against a DC equal to 10 + half her base attack bonus + her Charisma modifier to negate the damage. If a Holy Knight uses a daily use of Smite with the attack, however, a Reflex save only halves the damage, but when used this way the entire Weapon Magic will only function against targets susceptible to the Holy Knight's Smite ability.

    This attack is always considered Good and Law aligned for the purposes of overcoming damage reduction.

    Finally, some of her Invocations may be used to change her Weapon Magic attack.

    Celestial Essence (Sp)
    Celestial Essences are special invocations that modify a Holy Knight's Weapon Magic by adding status effects. They also influence its range. Only one Celestial Essence may be applied to any Weapon Magic attack. Using Smite with the Weapon Magic improves the effect. Effects on a successful save only function if the target takes damage from the attack (and is so negated by Evasion or similar). The Weapon Magic invocation counts as a spell of the level of the of its Celestial Essence.

    All Celestial Essence status effects require that the target take damage from the Weapon Magic (which means they either fail the Save or the Holy Knight uses a daily use of Smite), and then each status effect requires a second saving throw (though use of Smite also allows a weaker status effect to function even on a successful second save).
    {table=head]Name | Type (Level) | Effect | Effect w/Smite | Range | Range w/Smite

    Judgment Blade | Least (1st) | None | None | 60 ft. | 120 ft.

    Lightning Stab | Least (2nd) | Deafened 1d4 rounds (Fort negates) | Deafened for 1d4 rounds (Fort partial: 1 round) | 30 ft. | 60 ft.

    Split Punch | Least (2nd) | Fatigued (Fort negates) | Fatigued | 15 ft. | 30 ft.

    Holy Explosion | Lesser (4th) | Blinded for 1 round (Fort negates) | Blinded for 1d4 rounds (Fort partial: 1 round) | 30 ft. | 60 ft.

    Stasis Sword | Lesser (3rd) | Dazed for 1 round (Reflex negates) | Stunned for 1 round (Reflex partial: Dazed) | 15 ft. | 30 ft.

    Cleansing Strike | Greater (6th) | Targetted Dispel Magic, caster level equal to half BAB plus Cha | Targetted Dispel Magic, caster level equal to BAB plus Cha | 15 ft. | 30 ft.

    Vengeance Bind | Greater (5th) | Dimensional Anchor for 1 minute (Reflex negates) | Dimensional Anchor for 1d4 minutes (Reflex partial: 1 minute) | 30 ft. | 60 ft.

    Crush Punch | Heavenly (8th) | Target dies (Fort or Will negates; roll both) | Target dies (Fort or Will negates; roll higher) | 10 ft. | 20 ft.

    Divine Ruination | Heavenly (8th) | Forced to attack nearest target, 1 round (Will negates) | Forced to attack nearest target, 2d2 rounds (Will partial: 1 round) | 20 ft. | 40 ft.[/table]

    Martial Maneuvers
    On every third level, a Holy Knight may learn a maneuver from the Devoted Spirit discipline.

    A Holy Knight adds her class level to her initiator level to determine her total initiator level and the highest-level maneuver she may learn.

    At 5th level, she also gains an extra maneuver readied (and granted, if appropriate)

    At 8th level, she learns a stance from Devoted Spirit.

    Shield Magic (Sp)
    Another of the Holy Knight's signature invocations, a Holy Knight of at least 2nd level may spend a Move Action to activate her Shield Magic. For the rest of the round, the Holy Knight may take damage for her allies within 30 ft., up to half her Shield bonus to AC per ally. This damage may be directed to her delayed damage pool if she chooses and it has room, or otherwise dealt directly to her health. She is not required to take any damage from any attack unless she chooses to do so, and may even take some of the damage from an attack and allow the rest to damage her ally as normal.

    Chaotic or Evil aligned attacks may ignore this defense and attack the intended target (attacker's choice).

    At 5th level, she may absorb up to her entire Shield bonus to AC per ally. 8th level, she may absorb up to twice her Shield bonus to AC per ally.

    Steely Resolve (Ex)
    At 3rd level, a Holy Knight's delayed damage pool's maximum size increases by +5. If the Holy Knight did not have the Steely Resolve feature already, she gains it, as a Crusader does.

    At 7th level, the bonus increases to +10.

    Furious Counterstrike (Ex)
    If the Holy Knight does not have Furious Counterstrike (as the Crusader feature), she gains it at 3rd level.

    Rightful Vengeance (Sp)
    At 9th level, a Holy Knight gains the ability to demand the chance to protect her wards - as a Standard Action, she may invoke Rightful Vengeance to force an opponent to attack her and only her. This ability counts as an Invocation, though does not require that she uses a Invocation Known on it.

    Using this ability requires 3 daily uses of Smite. If the Holy Knight does not have enough uses of Smite (but at least 1 use), she uses all her remaining uses of Smite for the day, and loses daily uses of Smite the next day to make up the difference. This ability may not be used on any day in which any uses of Smite were spent paying for this ability.

    This ability further may only be used against a direct threat against that which she has taken a Personal Oath to protect (see below), or is responsible for the wrongs she has sworn a Personal Oath to right.

    Her target is allowed a Will save against 10 + half her BAB + her Charisma modifier to prevent the effect. If he fails, he is transported to a special demiplane set aside for this purpose by the Holy Knight's deity. This plane is coexistent with whatever plane the Holy Knight is currently in, and mimics the landscape of wherever the Holy Knight is. It only continues 250 feet from the Holy Knight, however, and leaving this boundary simply returns the target to the cooresponding location in the original plane.

    The Holy Knight exists simultaneously in this demiplane and in the original plane. To her target, she is the only other creature; he may neither rely on allies nor attack the Holy Knight's allies.

    This effect ends as soon as the enemy has left the plane, or either combatant has been defeated. If neither event occurs within 10 minutes, the effect ends and the enemy is returned to the original plane, in the location corresponding to his previous position on the demiplane. No effects may pass into or out of the demiplane, and no one can teleport into or out of it.

    Holy Knight Invocation List
    The following are Invocations that a Holy Knight may learn at the appropriate levels.

    • Least Invocations
      • Coordinate Defenses - use Message, as the spell.
      • Endure Environment - Use Endure Elements, as the spell. Also grants water breathing and a swim speed.
      • Hidden Wards - Party gains bonuses on Bluff and Disguise.
      • Hope of the People - Gain bonus on Diplomacy and Gather Information.
      • Judgment Blade - Weapon Magic gains 60 ft. range, 120 ft. with Smite.
      • Lightning Stab - Weapon Magic deafens foes.
      • Protect the Innocent - As Protection from Evil and Protection from Chaos at once.
      • Reveal the Wicked - Cone-shaped emanation detects evil and chaos, as Detect Evil and Detect Chaos.
      • See the Unseen - Use See Invisibility, as the spell.
      • Shining Beacon - Create light as with Daylight spell, but not strong enough to harm creatures susceptible to sunlight.
      • Split Punch - Weapon Magic fatigues foes.
    • Lesser Invocations
      • Holy Explosion - Weapon Magic blinds foes.
      • Innocence Ward - As Magic Circle against Evil and Magic Circle against Chaos at once.
      • Lose the Pursuit - Use Invisibility on self and up to 4 allies; any action or movement dispels.
      • Revelation - Use Zone of Truth as the spell.
      • Tactical Protection - Use Benign Transposition, as the spell.
      • Stasis Sword - Weapon Magic dazes foes, stuns with Smite.
      • Zephyr Flight - Party gains slow fly speed, cannot attack from air.
    • Greater Invocations
      • Cleansing Strike - Weapon Magic dispels enemy's magic.
      • Pass Unnoticed - Use Veil as the spell.
      • Shun the Wicked - As Magic Circle against Evil and Magic Circle against Chaos at once, plus attempts to keep out anyone of Evil alignment, extraplanar or not.
      • To Protect and Serve - Use Test of Mettle, as the Knight's class feature. Enemies who fail their save take a -4 penalty to their attacks and a -4 penalty to the DCs of their saving throws for anyone except yourself.
      • Vengeance Bind - Weapon Magic prevents foe from teleporting.
      • Wingstorm - Create powerful gusts of wind with your invocation-granted wings.
    • Heavenly Invocations
      • Apotheosis - Gain angelic wings, imbue shield and weapon with divine energy, produce light as Celestial Brilliance.
      • Crush Punch - Weapon Magic may instantly kill foe.
      • Divine Ruination - Weapon Magic turns foes against each other.
      • Miracle - Use Miracle, as the spell, but cannot ask for spells as an effect. Always requires XP expenditure.
      • Radiance - Use Sunburst, as the spell.
      • Ultimate Defense - Use Greater Globe of Invulnerability, as the spell.


    Spoiler
    Show
    OK, so it's a invocation/maneuver based class that's heavily inspired by Final Fantasy Tactics, and the Holy Knight class in that game. Many thanks to prime32, as well as Fax Celestis and Shpadoinkle, for the idea.

    I may very well have given them too much stuff; I mean, you retain most of Crusader and gain a bit besides. I might tone down the maneuvers some - the progression was determined before I had most of these ideas.
    Last edited by DragoonWraith; 2009-12-07 at 09:10 PM.

  2. Top - End - #2
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    MindFlayer

    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Karlsruhe, Germany
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5 Prestige Class] Holy Knight (PEACH)

    Not bad, but don't you think it may be a tad too powerful? You get full manoeuver progression along with as much invocations as a 20th level Dragonfire Adept, and frankly scary class abilities. Some suggestions:

    - Drop Turn Undead. Clerics aren't gonna take this class because it doesn't advance casting, Paladins only care about turning because it powers Divine feats.
    - Reduce the number of invocations learned, maybe max 4.
    - Limit yourself to lower-level invocations
    - Shield Magic should protect a limited number of allies OR have a very short duration for each activation. Otherwise it's plain unbeatable high Damage Reduction for the whole party.
    - Weapon Magic's save should not depend on BAB. Class level is enough.
    - Cleansing Strike lets you dispel magic at will better than any full caster of your level, and even higher-level casters may look rather weak in comparison. That's definitely too much.
    Last edited by katans; 2009-11-17 at 09:52 AM.

  3. Top - End - #3
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Glimbur's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Midwest, not Middle East
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5 Prestige Class] Holy Knight (PEACH)

    Why is there a strike/smite that charms and/or dominates? That doesn't seem to fit the flavor of an avenging knight stamping out evil.

  4. Top - End - #4
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    IN MUH HED!
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5 Prestige Class] Holy Knight (PEACH)

    It's based on Final Fantasy Tactics. That ability actually neither charmed nor dominated, but would add Confuse on occasion instead, the target would attack random things, allies, enemies, or even self. I would suggest going that route instead. Also, the requirements to get into this class are immense. Essentially only a Crusader CAN take it after 5th level. Anyone else would have to wait to stack their feats high enough to offset the fact that half the required abilities are either class features or martial manuvers that only the Crusader gets togethor. A paladin would have to wait, and I can't think of too many other LG classes that get smite. I'd lower the power of the magic and invocations a wee bit, and lower the pre-requisites significantly. Especially racial requirements. Banning evil outsiders is ok (though you probably never heard of the succubus paladin) but banning Aesimar is a little rude. :P
    Sir Ouranos Helaine, Knight of Helm, Champion of Torm. By Blood And Honor, We Serve.

  5. Top - End - #5
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    ErrantX's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Midwest City, OK
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5 Prestige Class] Holy Knight (PEACH)

    Alternately, you could always expand this out into a full base class. A holy invocation wielder doesn't need maneuvers, or barring that, make it a very secondary portion of the class.

    -X
    Chris Bennett
    Lead Designer (Path of War)
    Dreamscarred Press

    My credits:
    The Path of War: An OGL Tome of Battle for the Pathfinder game system, by Dreamscarred Press, available now!!
    My extended homebrew signature!


    Platinum Contributor to the Avatar D20 Project!

  6. Top - End - #6
    Banned
     
    DragoonWraith's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5 Prestige Class] Holy Knight (PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by katans View Post
    Not bad, but don't you think it may be a tad too powerful?
    Yes, yes I do. This was purely to get all my ideas down and get some feedback. It was also done late last night.

    Quote Originally Posted by katans View Post
    You get full manoeuver progression along with as much invocations as a 20th level Dragonfire Adept, and frankly scary class abilities.
    Yup, needs to be changed.

    Quote Originally Posted by katans View Post
    - Drop Turn Undead. Clerics aren't gonna take this class because it doesn't advance casting, Paladins only care about turning because it powers Divine feats.
    Which is why I thought it was trivial to include it. Why not throw them a bone?

    Quote Originally Posted by katans View Post
    - Reduce the number of invocations learned, maybe max 4.
    Quite likely.

    Quote Originally Posted by katans View Post
    - Limit yourself to lower-level invocations
    Probably.

    Quote Originally Posted by katans View Post
    - Shield Magic should protect a limited number of allies OR have a very short duration for each activation. Otherwise it's plain unbeatable high Damage Reduction for the whole party.
    Is it that high? I thought it was kinda low. Then again, I've never had a character with any meaningful DR. OK, will review what kinds of DR are available at that level and adjust accordingly.

    Quote Originally Posted by katans View Post
    - Weapon Magic's save should not depend on BAB. Class level is enough.
    OK, so the options here are 1/2 * BAB, or Class Level. At max, that's +10, either way. But 1/2 BAB starts at +3 (assuming full BAB and minimum level entry), rather than +1, and by the end of the class it's only +7, as opposed to class level getting to +10 at that point. I think 1/2 BAB scales better.

    I also strongly dislike features that are gimped unless you continue the class.

    Quote Originally Posted by katans View Post
    - Cleansing Strike lets you dispel magic at will better than any full caster of your level, and even higher-level casters may look rather weak in comparison. That's definitely too much.
    I may have screwed up the numbers there; with Smite, it was supposed to edge out casters, but only barely - and Smite is not at-will. Without Smite... well, I'll look at it again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Glimbur View Post
    Why is there a strike/smite that charms and/or dominates? That doesn't seem to fit the flavor of an avenging knight stamping out evil.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ouranos View Post
    It's based on Final Fantasy Tactics. That ability actually neither charmed nor dominated, but would add Confuse on occasion instead, the target would attack random things, allies, enemies, or even self. I would suggest going that route instead.
    I'd forgotten Confused even existed as a status effect in D&D, which is why I went with Charm/Dominate as the next best thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ouranos View Post
    Also, the requirements to get into this class are immense.
    Intentional, but perhaps not desirable. I realized I was putting too much stuff in it, but it was too late to start paring things down so I just tossed a couple of feat requirements on it for now. Will take another look at this once I've figured out the rest of the balance better.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ouranos View Post
    Essentially only a Crusader CAN take it after 5th level. Anyone else would have to wait to stack their feats high enough to offset the fact that half the required abilities are either class features or martial manuvers that only the Crusader gets togethor. A paladin would have to wait, and I can't think of too many other LG classes that get smite. I'd lower the power of the magic and invocations a wee bit, and lower the pre-requisites significantly.
    That is the plan. I didn't realize how difficult this was to get into for non-Crusaders; that was an oversight. Point, though - a Paladin couldn't use Defensive Rebuke until 10, and wouldn't get a feat until 12. 1st, 3rd, 6th, and 9th are all of his feats, which is immense, agreed, but you're delayed as much by the need for a 3rd level maneuver as you are by the number of feats.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ouranos View Post
    Especially racial requirements. Banning evil outsiders is ok (though you probably never heard of the succubus paladin) but banning Aesimar is a little rude. :P
    Rude? That's bizarre. Anyway, the fluff was intended for these to be very much normal, mortal races. Aasimar were excluded intentionally. Then again, I'm not really a fan of unnecessary restrictions, so I'll work on that.

    And I'm familiar with Falls-From-Grace, but she was a Cleric, I think.

    Quote Originally Posted by ErrantX View Post
    Alternately, you could always expand this out into a full base class. A holy invocation wielder doesn't need maneuvers, or barring that, make it a very secondary portion of the class.

    -X
    Considered it, didn't like the idea. Just awkward, it makes more sense as a prestige thing.

    At any rate, the idea was for you to use maneuvers in melee, and only use Weapon Magic when you needed the range or the status effect. But it's too powerful right now, I think, so you'd end up pretty much always using it.

    I'm going to edit it now, check back in a bit!

  7. Top - End - #7
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    IN MUH HED!
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5 Prestige Class] Holy Knight (PEACH)

    The rude part was in jest, sorry if it seemed serious :D But no, Wizards did up all the stats somewhere a while back of a Succubus paladin. I think toning the restrictions down so a paladin can get in by or before level 10 would be good. Crusader mayhaps the uber easy way in, in the way paladin is for Kensai. They have all the right skills, all the right feat selections, attack bonus, so forth to make it easy, but other classes can get in only a level or two later if they want it. Making a paladin spend all their feats to start their career as Holy knights (wierd for a paladin to think about eh?) to grab it as his 13th level is a stretch. A little expansion into a base class would be nice, but PrC I think works well, it just needs some adjusting. I can't recall if confused was a status in D&D, however charm/dominate are abit stronger as opposed to weaker, so perhaps putting them into a berserk-ish status where they attack the nearest target, or random target if several are near, and when random he includes himself in the randomization. If no targets but self are near, they attack the nearets OBJECT.
    Sir Ouranos Helaine, Knight of Helm, Champion of Torm. By Blood And Honor, We Serve.

  8. Top - End - #8
    Banned
     
    DragoonWraith's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5 Prestige Class] Holy Knight (PEACH)

    Interestingly (and this was intentional), the quickest way into the class was a multiclass Paladin/Crusader. That could get you in at 6th (a single-class Crusader gets in at 7th, since they don't get Smite until 6th).

    Anyway, removed Avenging Strike, dropped it down to a 2nd level maneuver... you still need 3, though. That just seems consistent with other PrC's in Tome of Battle. :/ Nevermind; the Ruby Knight Vindicator seems like a decent comparison, and that gets in for one maneuver/one stance, so that's fine.

    The racial requirements have been dropped, instead just relying on the Lawful Good alignment requirement to avoid any weirdness. The disallowing of Eldritch Blast and channeling negative energy remains.

    Also, dropped maneuvers to one every three levels instead of every other level, dropped a readied maneuver and a stance, and dropped two invocations. Also lowered Shield Magic's bonus (but you gain it earlier), made it per ally instead of per attack, and clarified that you need to turn it on every round in which you use it.

    And, I removed the Celestial Shapes. No more Weapon Magic on more than one target. Doesn't exactly fit FFT, but I think it's more balanced. Celestial Essences all now also allow two saves, and no longer gain damage bonuses.

    So, how's it look now?

    Still to do - flesh out the pact/vow thing, describe "falling" (which is not really falling but does involve some penalties).

    EDIT: Figured out the pact business. Input on that, and all of it, is greatly appreciated.
    Last edited by DragoonWraith; 2009-11-17 at 05:52 PM.

  9. Top - End - #9
    Banned
     
    DragoonWraith's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5 Prestige Class] Holy Knight (PEACH)

    OK, so 50% fewer Invocations, 20% fewer Maneuvers, 50% fewer Stances and Readied Maneuvers, weakened Celestial Essences, dropped Celestial Shapes, weaker (and clearer!) Shield Magic, and no Weapon Magic damage bonus. Scary how much I've dropped, and I'm still not worried about it being underpowered! Heh, I really stuffed a lot into this class last night. Anyway, how do you guys think balance stands now?

    Also, thoughts on the pact fluff stuff would be cool. I pretty much abhor the Book of Exalted Deeds, but a Vow is pretty fitting with the fluff and Sacred Vow, at least, is inoffensive. Just the various other Vows that I find bloody stupid.

    EDIT: Sort of suspecting no one will see it, but I've added an Invocation list. Not sure about the balance of it, so help would be cool. Some might need longer descriptions, though, which I haven't written up yet.
    Last edited by DragoonWraith; 2009-11-18 at 05:57 PM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •