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    Fax Celestis's Avatar

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    Default d20 Rebirth - Open Alpha

    Welcome to the d20 Rebirth Primary Alpha. While the game isn't itself complete, I feel it is usable enough in its current state to represent the majority of play. I'll use the findings from this beta to determine what needs to get changed to have a more cohesive game as a whole.

    Available Material
    You may use any material that appears in the d20r index below.

    You may also use material that appears in the SRD that has not been updated by the d20r project, excluding the Fighter, Wizard, Druid, and material that comes from Unearthed Arcana, Deities and Demigods, and the Epic Level Handbook--in the former book, a lot of material from within it is either now irrelevant or has been hybridized into the system, while in the latter two books the material in them is no longer 'compatible' with how the final game will function.

    You may also use material that appears in Lappy9000's Lords of Avramir Campaign Setting, but if you do, mark that you are using his material.

    Also make sure to see the "On the Fly Fixes" header in the next post.

    What You're Doing
    There are three different kinds of play I'm interested in finding out about.
    Theoretical Optimization
    This is a case in which you build a character who is a one-trick pony: they are the best thing ever when it comes to their trick, but if presented with an obstacle that cannot be overcome with their trick, they're left out in the cold. Theoretical Optimization builds are not built to see actual play; rather, they are built to demonstrate a flaw in the system.

    Practical Optimization
    This is a case in which you build a character who is as powerful as possible, but are not so focused as to be useless at a task in which they are non-specialized. Practical Optimization builds, unlike Theoretical Optimization builds, are built to see actual play, but exploit a flaw in the system. Two Practical Optimization builds should be relatively equivalent in terms of power.

    Casual Play
    Casual Play characters are built without optimization in mind--they take feats and spells that make sense for the characters rather than are "the best" feats. While Casual Play characters can and sometimes do take the best options, they're taken for flavor rather than mechanical value. Casual Play builds are built to see actual play and only rarely exploit flaws in the system. Two Casual Play builds should be relatively equivalent in terms of power.

    How to Report an Issue
    Post your issue on this thread. Indicate your race, class, level, and equipment--or provide a link to your character sheet--and clearly indicate what the issue is. If you've solved the issue with a house rule, describe the house rule you've substituted to patch the problem. Also indicate which style you're focusing as with a small indicator ([TO], [PO], or [Casual]).

    Fundamental Changes from the Original System

    Image courtesy of AstralFire at The Anteheroes.
    • Players gain a feat at first level, at every level evenly divisible by three (3rd, 6th, 9th, etc.). Players also gain a feat when taking a level of a class that is evenly divisible by four (such as Rogue 4, Warlord 3/Dreadnaught 4, Fencer 8, or Ranger 6/Rogue 2/Bard 4).
    • Every four character levels, increase two attributes by 1.
    • Epic functions of skills are available in non-epic play.
    • If you have a class skill with at least one rank in it, use your actual ranks or one-half your level to determine your effective ranks when using the skill.
    • Cleric spells are still being worked upon: use their updated versions as they come out.
    • Balance, Escape Artist, and Tumble are now one skill, Acrobatics. It uses a Dex modifier, has armor check penalty, and is not trained-only.
    • Climb, Jump, and Swim are now one skill, Athletics. It uses a Str modifier, has armor check penalty, and is not trained-only.
    • Forgery and Sleight of Hand are now one skill, Legerdemain. It uses a Dex modifier and is trained-only.
    • Gather Information is now part of Diplomacy.
    • Hide and Move Silently are now one skill, Stealth. It uses a Dex modifier, has armor check penalty, and is not trained-only.
    • Listen, Search, and Spot are now one skill, Awareness. It uses a Wis modifier and is not trained-only.
    • Open Lock is now part of Disable Device.
    • Use Rope is now part of Survival.
    • Expect idiot flaws (like the commoner railgun, ten-foot ladders and poles, instant club crafting, and drowning rules) to be fixed appropriately.

    The Index
    Races
    1. Ameena
    2. Dromite
    3. Drow
    4. Dwarf
    5. Elf
    6. Gnome
    7. Gnoll
    8. Goblin
    9. Half-Giant
    10. Halfling
    11. Human
    12. Kobold
    13. Lizardfolk
    14. Maenad
    15. Minotaur
    16. Phoe-Kun
    17. Russiti
    18. Satyr
    19. Shifter


    Racial Classes
    1. Aasimar (Celestial-touched)
    2. Onori (Axiom-touched)
    3. Phrenic (Psionic)
    4. Tiefling (Fiend-touched)
    5. Xel'gash (Anarch-touched)


    Classes
    1. Bard
    2. Bladeweaver
    3. CartomancerThis class is incomplete; use it with caution
    4. ClericSpellsThis class is incomplete; use it with caution
    5. Dreadnaught
    6. Enlightened Devotee
    7. Fencer
    8. Hunter
    9. Luckthief
    10. Medium
    11. Monk
    12. Paladin
    13. Ranger – Animal Companion option only
    14. Rogue
    15. Sorcerer
    16. Warlord


    Other Material
    1. Skill Sets
    2. Cartomancy skill
    3. Initiative skill
    4. Grapple skill
    5. Investing Feats
    6. More Investing Feats
    7. Skill Knowledge and Flick of the Wrist Feats
    8. Racial Feats
    9. Racial Feats II
    10. Racial Feats III
    11. Racial Feats IV
    12. Berserk Sandworm Style Feat
    13. Leader's Obligation Style Feat
    14. Brave Fencer Style Feat
    15. Biblios
    16. Librum
    17. Elite Creature template

    Last edited by Fax Celestis; 2009-11-24 at 12:50 AM.

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    Default Re: d20 Rebirth - Open Alpha

    It's been nearly a year from the announcement of the project to this point. I can safely say that the game is about halfway done--but I can also say that the remaining portion is the hard part. It's going to take a lot of time, so in the interim I might as well make sure everything I've made so far works.

    It's thanks to several people that I've come this far--Afroakuma; Lappy9000; Magnor Criol; Zeta Kai; Starsinger, Gralamin Shieldheart, Edea, NEO|Phyte, Flickerdart, neek (and the rest of the IRC crew); The Demented One; The Vorpal Tribble; Draz74; thegurullamen; Shneeky the Lost; Ashtagon; Telonius; Icewalker; Person_Man; ...and a lot more folks than I can really name without having just a giant list of names.

    When I started this project, I did it with the idea in mind that I wanted the game I loved to be better: I knew it had myriad flaws and some very incredibly broken aspects, but I also knew that I, like anyone else with access to the Homebrew forum, had the power to fix it. So I decided to do so. And I never thought I'd end up where I am now.

    So many bits and pieces of the project have changed partially--or even in some instances, completely--from what I originally had in mind. The most notable of these, the Cleric, isn't even done yet. Bear with me on that one, it's a beast.

    Despite that, each little piece of this project is something I've decided needed to be part of the gaming experience, something I felt was either lacking or absent from the 3.5 game as we know it. And now, seeing all those pieces fit together into a larger tapestry is...well, it's fulfilling. I feel like what I've done here, so far, is worth something. And it's not even done.

    But it will be, with your help. That's what this alpha's all about: making sure that what I consider to be fair and balanced to be actually fair and balanced. It's not going to be perfect--nothing ever is--but I will do my damndest to get within millimeters of that perfection and bring to you the game you deserve.

    Thank you all, for everything.

    -James Raine

    On-The-Fly Fixes
    • Candle of Invocation does not have the gate function.
    • Personal cleric buff spells are touch spells.
    • Divine power gives a sacred bonus on attack rolls equal to 1/2 your CL, not increases your BAB.
    • Alter self lets you turn into any Humanoid creature with total character level (LA+RHD) less than 1/2 your caster level.
    • Bardic music ability costs double with each successive purchase of the same ability. The temporary HP option regenerates per-round, not per-song.
    • Dreadnaught's Supreme Cleave is capped at a maximum distance of movement equal to your normal land speed.
    • You cannot have more than six times your BAB invested in any one Style feat.
    • Races that have +2/-2 stat adjustments no longer provide stat penalties, just bonuses. Races that have +2/+2/-2/-2 stat adjusts instead have +2/+2/-2: essentially, pick one penalty and drop it.
    Last edited by Fax Celestis; 2009-11-25 at 06:06 PM.

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    Default Re: d20 Rebirth - Open Alpha

    If I just had a 3.X game, I'd start using this right now. Obviously we need a d20r game on the IRC
    Join the IRC
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Hall View Post
    "We always run the games we want to play in."

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    Default Re: d20 Rebirth - Open Alpha

    Ooo....this looks interesting. Can't wait to see if some d20r games get started on the forum.
    He fears his fate too much, and his reward is small, who will not put it to the touch, to win or lose it all.
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    Default Re: d20 Rebirth - Open Alpha

    Quote Originally Posted by Gralamin View Post
    If I just had a 3.X game, I'd start using this right now. Obviously we need a d20r game on the IRC
    Do we have a volunteer?
    Join the IRC channel or else.

    Quote Originally Posted by AstralFire View Post
    You do not [play Pun-Pun]. You do not.

    Pun-Pun is purely a thought exercise, made to go "haha, look at this series of poorly finished but easily properly understood rules which can be abused for the purpose of laughter." It is the D&D equivalent of being endowed like a tribal fertility statue, or 90's Madonna outfits - scary, striking, suggestive, and completely nonfunctional.

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    Default Re: d20 Rebirth - Open Alpha

    Quote Originally Posted by Break View Post
    Do we have a volunteer?
    Well, I am only at 7 games a week currently. Though, I'd prefer to play
    Join the IRC
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Hall View Post
    "We always run the games we want to play in."

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    Default Re: d20 Rebirth - Open Alpha

    Quote Originally Posted by Break View Post
    Do we have a volunteer?
    You have a volunteer player at the very least.

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    Default Re: d20 Rebirth - Open Alpha

    Are there games on the IRC?
    He fears his fate too much, and his reward is small, who will not put it to the touch, to win or lose it all.
    -James Graham, 1st Marquess of Montrose
    Satomi by Elagune

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    Default Re: d20 Rebirth - Open Alpha

    Quote Originally Posted by Tavar View Post
    Are there games on the IRC?
    Yep, we meet up on IRC and actually play using MapTools. The games there are mostly 4E, though.
    Join the IRC channel or else.

    Quote Originally Posted by AstralFire View Post
    You do not [play Pun-Pun]. You do not.

    Pun-Pun is purely a thought exercise, made to go "haha, look at this series of poorly finished but easily properly understood rules which can be abused for the purpose of laughter." It is the D&D equivalent of being endowed like a tribal fertility statue, or 90's Madonna outfits - scary, striking, suggestive, and completely nonfunctional.

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    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: d20 Rebirth - Open Alpha

    Nice, really nice. I am currently working on something similiar, would you accept an offer of cooperation of this? Or at least a sharing of ideas?
    Act well before thinking!


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    Default Re: d20 Rebirth - Open Alpha

    What's IRC? I feel like trying this system when I get the time

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    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: d20 Rebirth - Open Alpha

    Internet Relay Chat, a program for chatting, really nice!
    Act well before thinking!


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    Default Re: d20 Rebirth - Open Alpha

    Ah. Dang, I can't keep up with that stuff.
    Last edited by Roc Ness; 2009-11-24 at 03:05 AM.

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    Default Re: d20 Rebirth - Open Alpha

    What's the IRC server you use?

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    Default Re: d20 Rebirth - Open Alpha

    another person down as a pc for a IRC game looks interesting will need to spend a few hours reading the whole thing
    Check out my horrible homebrews

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    Default Re: d20 Rebirth - Open Alpha

    Quote Originally Posted by Cariyaga View Post
    What's the IRC server you use?
    See my Sig. In short, Gamesurge.
    Join the IRC
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Hall View Post
    "We always run the games we want to play in."

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    Default Re: d20 Rebirth - Open Alpha

    Its not my server, its just that living in another time zone from most people here is not helpful. (Plus having intermittent free time doesn't help with people in similar time-zones either.)

    Let me know if there will be a casual Pbp.

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    Default Re: d20 Rebirth - Open Alpha

    Theoretical optimization: The Unstoppable Onslaught

    Dwarven Dreadnought 20.

    Uses Power Attack (10 points invested), Cleave (maximum invested), Weapon Specialization (maximum invested), Improved Critical, and uses a weapon with a high base damage.

    Unrelenting Cascade is the class ability this build (ab)uses.

    In brief, this is nearly identical, in every regard, to something that is as close to an Ubercharger as you can get in d20r. Now you add to all that damagee output the ability to apply that damage output to... everything. No, really. This guy can literally wade through an entire army. In one round. Holy crap, this guy is FAST in combat. If he had an army a mile long standing before him, he could go a mile in six seconds. Even more so, he could continue going back and forth, traveling many miles, in but six seconds.

    The counter to this is something he cannot physically attack, or something he cannot reach.
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    Imp

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    Default Re: d20 Rebirth - Open Alpha

    Wow. I should visit these forums more often; I've missed this entirely. It looks like a lot of people, especially Fax, have put a great deal of effort into making the Paizo people look like buffoons (hehe), or rather obsoleting my (and likely many others') expansive but nowhere-near-as-good list of d20 house rules. Fax & Co. deserve all the accolades they get and more.

    That means I'm just learning a new set of rules, so bear with me if I'm ignorant of certain balancing factors and other system novelties.

    Quote Originally Posted by ShneekeyTheLost View Post
    Theoretical optimization: The Unstoppable Onslaught

    Dwarven Dreadnought 20.

    *snip*
    To me this is exactly what the class is designed for. Maybe d20r is vastly different than 3e, but by level 20 I expect even my mundane heroes to be able to do crazy things like level armies with ease. That said, I suppose a limit in actual distance traveled might be in order.


    Anyway, after skimming though the Dreadnaught, it seems like a fun class to play, but I found a small issue. I suppose this falls into [Casual Play]. I'll reprint the ability I'm worried about:
    Elemental Resistance (Su): At 10th level, a dreadnaught can shrug off the effects of even the most damaging magics. When affected by a spell that inflicts elemental damage (that is, fire, cold, electricity, sonic, or acid), he reduces each die of damage by one, to a minimum of one. Bonus damage on top of each die is not reduced, and a spell affected by the Maximize Spell metamagic feat suffers no reduction. At 11th level, and every three dreadnaught levels thereafter (14th, 17th, and 20th), the amount subtracted from each die increases by 1, but still cannot reduce the damage per die to below 1.
    My problem here is actually counting the damage dice in play. Perhaps spells and other elemental abilities have changed more than I thought from 3e, but physically looking through something like 40d6 fire damage and subtracting, say, three from half the dice seems like a real chore for the player. I suppose it would be an easy penalty to program into a dice-rolling simulator, but not all players use that.

    I understand that imposing a simple reduction of damage per die (and accounting for die type) might require a Gygaxian reference table, and the distribution won't be exactly the same, but it'll have the same mean damage, and in the end this method will mean less accounting for the players and DM. Also, and this might just be my ignorance of the system showing up again, I'm not sure why the Dreadnaught would resist a 6d6 elemental attack better than a 3d12 elemental attack.

    Edit: Looking back on it, I realized my houserule suggestion was lacking in substance, so I crunched the numbers on Elemental Resistance's current average damage resistance per damage die by damage die type. You may have already done this; if so, you can head straight past the table.

    {table=head]Die Type: | d4 | d6 | d8 | d10 | d12
    Resist 1 | 0.75 | 0.833 | 0.875 | 0.9 | 0.916
    Resist 2 | 1.25 | 1.5 | 1.625 | 1.7 | 1.75
    Resist 3 | 1.5 | 2.0 | 2.25 | 2.4 | 2.5
    Resist 4 | 1.5 | 2.333 | 2.75 | 3.0 | 3.166 [/table]

    This leads me to the following:
    1. The table of reduced damages I suggested previously obviously doesn't work with such fractional numbers without a whole new set of rounding and a series of tables. I'm not sure what to do about this other than changing the numbers slightly, or leaving it as is and suggesting some sort of diceroll simulator for instances of large numbers of damage dice.
    2. Now I wonder not only why 3d12 damage would be less resisted than 6d6 damage, but why 1d6 damage would be resisted less than 1d12 damage.
    3. Hm, this increases the potency a bit, but you could go with the "reduce damage by X per die" idea with a simple cap on minimum total damage being 1 per die. This would be my suggested damage reduction values, but flavor to taste:

    {table=head] |
    Resist 1 | 1 per damage die
    Resist 2 | 1.5 per damage die, round down
    Resist 3 | 2 per damage die
    Resist 4 | 2.5 per damage die, round down [/table]
    Last edited by GoodbyeSoberDay; 2009-11-24 at 05:53 AM.
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    Default Re: d20 Rebirth - Open Alpha

    Hmm. I might start a d20r game over Skype, casual play, if I ever get to read all the rules, or at least the basics, like skill sets and investment feats.
    "The land is all too shallow
    It is painted on the sky
    And trembles like the wind-shook rain
    When the Raven King goes by"

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    Default Re: d20 Rebirth - Open Alpha

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldan View Post
    Hmm. I might start a d20r game over Skype, casual play, if I ever get to read all the rules, or at least the basics, like skill sets and investment feats.
    Skype sound perfect to me if we can agree on the hours. Interested :)
    Act well before thinking!


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    Default Re: d20 Rebirth - Open Alpha

    Well, you're european, I'm european...
    As I said, maybe this weekend I'll put something up if I can find an adventure to run.
    "The land is all too shallow
    It is painted on the sky
    And trembles like the wind-shook rain
    When the Raven King goes by"

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    Default Re: d20 Rebirth - Open Alpha

    Wow, way to upstage Pathfinder!
    Guide to the Magus, the Pathfinder Gish class.

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    Default Re: d20 Rebirth - Open Alpha

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldan View Post
    Well, you're european, I'm european...
    As I said, maybe this weekend I'll put something up if I can find an adventure to run.
    You live in Zürich? Half my family lives there!
    I even understand some of your language

    Like Chuchichaschli
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    Default Re: d20 Rebirth - Open Alpha

    You even have the better logo
    "The land is all too shallow
    It is painted on the sky
    And trembles like the wind-shook rain
    When the Raven King goes by"

    -Susanna Clarke, Jonathan Strange and Mr. Norell

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    Default Re: d20 Rebirth - Open Alpha

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurald Galain View Post
    Wow, way to upstage Pathfinder!
    Not exactly hard, mind you...

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    Default Re: d20 Rebirth - Open Alpha

    Very interested in a game if it's getting started. I also did have plans to test the system over next summer, but I guess I can get started sooner.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roland St. Jude View Post
    There is no mind control, citizen. Please go back to your fun.
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    Kroy speaks the truth.
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    Default Re: d20 Rebirth - Open Alpha

    Fax question for you.

    I want to know a little bit more about your thought proccess.
    Would you say d20r is more along the lines of people who like 2nd ed or people who liked TOB? (not saying that people who like 2nd ed can't like TOB), Also What level of lethality is your system would you say? I know your still in the alpha testing stage but just from your gut and from what you have seen from your games at home or on the boards.
    When the end comes i shall remember you.

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    Default Re: d20 Rebirth - Open Alpha

    I might try a casual play Ravenloft with this. I'll put something up on the Recruitment page, though it will take a little while to shift the encounters over to d20r
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    Default Re: d20 Rebirth - Open Alpha

    Damn, now I'm gonna' need a way to print all of this out when it's done. I can already tell this is'll blow Pathfinder out of the water.
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    According to this test, I am a LN Half-Orc Cleric, Lvl.2.
    "And in the layer of the Deep Ones, we shall dwell amidst wonder and glory forever." - H.P. Lovecraft

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