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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Chrono22's Avatar

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    Default Beguiler Prestiging?

    I know there are many threads about this topic, but there are some DM-set limits that make prestiging out of beguiler much harder for me.
    I'm not optimization-crazy, but I realize that the campaign I'm in may not last for another 5 levels. If I'm going to take a prestige class, I'll need to start working to meet its requirements now.
    Here are some ground rules:

    1. I can't multiclass- I can only work with beguiler levels to qualify for a prestige class.
    2. I can only enter a prestige class once- I can't use one prestige class to meet the requirements for another.
    3. I can't use campaign setting specific material (dragon marks, shadow weave magic, etc).
    4. He has an expansive list of sources (more than I can remember off the top of my head) but here are some that aren't included: Tome of Magic, Tome of Battle, Magic of Incarnum, any Psionics book, Complete Mage. Complete Arcane is included, as are the BoED and the BoVD. The Draconomicon too. Other sources, I'm iffy on.

    Here are some pertinent details:
    Race: Human (draconic heritage).
    Class: Beguiler
    Level: 4
    Abilities: Str 8, Dex 14, Con 12, Int 15, Wis 10, Cha 12
    Feats: Obtain Familiar, Combat Expertise, Improved Feint.
    Skills (trained): Bluff, Concentration, Disguise, Hide, Move Silently, Search, Disable Device, Sleight of Hand, Spellcraft, Use Magic Device

    I've considered Mindbender, but I'm not sure the Telepathy ability is worth the hit to skills and class features... and I definitely wouldn't keep taking it, the spellcasting loss is too much.

    So, to reiterate- low entry requirements, but it needs a decent payoff for losing beguiler class features. It need not be a ten-level prestige class.
    Thanks in advance, for anyone who can offer me some advice.

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    industrious's Avatar

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    Default Re: Beguiler Prestiging?

    Take a 1 level dip in Mindbender all the same. It delays Advanced Learning by a level, so you can get a higher spell level.
    Last edited by industrious; 2009-11-29 at 12:57 AM.
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    The Maze of Madness

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    Wings of Peace's Avatar

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    Default Re: Beguiler Prestiging?

    If he has Lords of Madness then after you dip Mindbender take the Mindsight feat.
    Doc Roc: We're going to eat ourselves.

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    Default Re: Beguiler Prestiging?

    Quote Originally Posted by industrious View Post
    Take a 1 level dip in Mindbender all the same. It delays Advanced Learning by a level, so you can get a higher spell level.
    Then use Telepathy to qualify for Mindsight from LM. The saved Spot skill ranks should make up for the prerequisites, and render you immune to ninjas.
    Last edited by Sstoopidtallkid; 2009-11-29 at 01:02 AM. Reason: Ninja Assassin
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    I play primarily 3.5 D&D. Most of my advice will be based off of this. If my advice doesn't apply, specify a version in your post.

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    Chrono22's Avatar

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    Default Re: Beguiler Prestiging?

    Good point. I'm not sure if Lords of Madness is an available source though, so if anyone has other advice I'm all ears.

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    Sstoopidtallkid's Avatar

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    Default Re: Beguiler Prestiging?

    You want to delay your advanced learning with a 1-level dip so you can grab Shadow Conjuration. If you want to continue in Fatespinner or whatever after that, fine, but Shadow Conjuration is a must.
    [/sarcasm]
    FAQ is not RAW!
    Avatar by the incredible CrimsonAngel.
    Saph:It's surprising how many problems can be solved by one druid spell combined with enough aggression.
    I play primarily 3.5 D&D. Most of my advice will be based off of this. If my advice doesn't apply, specify a version in your post.

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    Chrono22's Avatar

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    Default Re: Beguiler Prestiging?

    I can only take one prestige class.

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    Default Re: Beguiler Prestiging?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chrono22 View Post
    I can only take one prestige class.
    I meant continuing in the same PrC. Beguiler 6/FS 1/Beguiler 1/FS 3 or similar.
    [/sarcasm]
    FAQ is not RAW!
    Avatar by the incredible CrimsonAngel.
    Saph:It's surprising how many problems can be solved by one druid spell combined with enough aggression.
    I play primarily 3.5 D&D. Most of my advice will be based off of this. If my advice doesn't apply, specify a version in your post.

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    Default Re: Beguiler Prestiging?

    As many have already said, you want to go Beguiler 5/ Mindbender 1/ Beguiler +14.

    Another great trick is to take the feat Versatile Spellcaster from Races of the Dragon. This may allow you to gain early access to the next higher level of spells, depending on how your DM interprets its interaction with when a Beguiler gains knowledge of the next higher level of spells. Ideally, you'll be able to spend two spell slots of your highest level available to cast any spell on the Beguiler spell list of the next higher level. This will also allow you to choose spells of one level higher for Advanced Learning. In this case, considering the Mindbender dip, your Advanced Learning spell levels would be 2nd, 5th, 7th, 9th, and 9th in that order. My choices for spells at those levels would be Ray of Stupidity, Shadow Form, Greater Shadow Conjuration, Greater Shadow Evocation, and Superior Invisibility.

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    Chrono22's Avatar

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    Default Re: Beguiler Prestiging?

    Thanks for the advice all! I'll ask the DM if he's allowing Lords of Madness. Mindsense or not, I'll be taking Mindbender to delay my advanced learning.
    Last edited by Chrono22; 2009-11-29 at 01:43 AM.

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    Default Re: Beguiler Prestiging?

    Good choice. I hope your DM allows Mindsight. In my mind, it is one of the absolute best feats you can pick up.

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    Default Re: Beguiler Prestiging?

    if im not wrong, then beguiler is an illusionist?

    if so, then gnome is your saving grace.

    i forgot what book, but gnome illusionist is a prestige class that rox. theres another that makes illusion spells "real"

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    RogueGuy

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    Default Re: Beguiler Prestiging?

    On a semi-related note, anyone know which book Beguiler (race) is from?

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    Default Re: Beguiler Prestiging?

    Quote Originally Posted by ozgun92 View Post
    On a semi-related note, anyone know which book Beguiler (race) is from?
    Shining South. FR-specific.

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    Default Re: Beguiler Prestiging?

    Quote Originally Posted by AirGuitarGod32 View Post
    if im not wrong, then beguiler is an illusionist?

    if so, then gnome is your saving grace.

    i forgot what book, but gnome illusionist is a prestige class that rox. theres another that makes illusion spells "real"
    He's human, and I think you're thinking of the Gnome Illusionist racial substitution levels, which are only for the specialist wizard.
    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Roc View Post
    Ring of Evasion means never playing a monk with monk levels again. There is just no reason to dip that stuff. I know we're all about using every part of the buffalo here, but can we just admit that it's inedible?

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    Default Re: Beguiler Prestiging?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mongoose87 View Post
    He's human, and I think you're thinking of the Gnome Illusionist racial substitution levels, which are only for the specialist wizard.
    Actually, I believe he's talking about the Shadowcraft Mage prestige class from Races of Stone. Its gnome only and lets you substitute image spells for shadow conjuration/evocation effects which is really strong.

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    Default Re: Beguiler Prestiging?

    Mage of the Arcane Order is handy. It lets you pick spells from the entire sor/wiz list a few times a day. Not often, but can make a big difference. It costs two useless feats to enter, but gives one back as a bonus metamagic feat at second level.

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