The battletech/mechwarrior thread

[TheThan]

This is a general thread for all things related to battletech and mechwarrior. Whether you want to talk about the upcoming mechwarrior 5 pc game, the classic battle tech miniatures game or heck, the old battletech cartoon series. This is the thread for you. Anything related to the topic is open for discussion.


To get things off the ground, I just got my friends into classic battletech. They’ve all played the older pc games so they know a bit about the universe, so they were happy to see mechs they recognize, like the madcat (excuse me, timberwolf) and the cougar. One friend has already decided to buy a few models of his own [so he doesn’t have to keep borrowing mine and blitz’s (that’s my brother)].

Blitz plays clan Jade Falcon, and he’s got almost a trinary of mechs, While I’m playing house Steiner/lyran alliance. I’m close to a full company of mechs myself. So between me and him we have enough to cover our friends till they buy their own. However since most of the mechs my friends recognize are clan mechs they are naturally gravitating to clan tech. I sort of expected that.

Anyway we played three 3vs 3 games. We’re using clan pilots since more than half the mechs on the field are clan (figured it’d be easier since we were teaching the game as well as trying to play one). Highlights include the same person getting knocked down, then getting shot and suffering and ammo explosion, which killed him. This happened twice. The last game the poor guy took a lucky head shot and died from a catapult at short range.
I broke out my brand new battlemaster and bravely (or foolishly) charged down an Awesome, taking the PPC fire and closing into his minimum range, where I was able to stay and pew pew him to death with my medium pulse lasers… eventually.

I really like how ballzy that mech is, so its fun to play, but I was expecting more firepower than it has. Fortunately I managed to find some different mech sheets for it so I should have more options on the table for it.

[HandofShadows]

I broke out my brand new battlemaster and bravely (or foolishly) charged down an Awesome, taking the PPC fire and closing into his minimum range, where I was able to stay and pew pew him to death with my medium pulse lasers… eventually.

Old saying "The only counter for an Awesome is anouther Awesome" is not that far from the truth. If you faced and Awesome with Heavy PPC's you are very lucky.

[TheThan]

Old saying "The only counter for an Awesome is anouther Awesome" is not that far from the truth. If you faced and Awesome with Heavy PPC's you are very lucky.

they were standard PPC's. Since it's the version that comes in the starter box. but still that's like 30 damage a turn if he can hit with them all.

[Artanis]

Anybody here ever play MechCommander? I love that game, but it never seems to get mentioned much.


*grumbles about Thors and their damn HACs*

[The Glyphstone]

I'm pretty sure the Mechwarrior 5 discussion thread got morphed into a general Battletech thread.

[Winterwind]

It was, but shifting the discussion to an aptly named BattleTech thread instead might make sense nonetheless.

[Timberwolf]

Anybody here ever play MechCommander? I love that game, but it never seems to get mentioned much.


*grumbles about Thors and their damn HACs*

Played (and loved) Mechcommander 2. Ahhhh, the 5 PPC MadCat, was ther no limit to its utility ? (and the 2 longtom Atlas)

[Jimp]

I've been trying to get into the battletech tabletop game and have gotten the Battletech 4th Edition Rulebook. I found a website with a generator for custom mechs and noticed it had different levels of rules and prices for the mech and parts. Just wondering if the 'rules levels' and the prices for mech parts are featured in another book or a different edition or something?
Here is the website, the generator is pretty good:
http://www.futureterra.com/mech-rpg-generator/

[Erloas]

Solaris Skunk Werks is the program theThan (I believe) linked to in the previous thread and it is what I use all the time now too.

I did a quick build on the site you linked and it came up with different values. I'm going to assume it is still using the old BV1.0 system and not the new BV2.0 system. The rules to building 'Mechs (and every other type of unit) including the BV, C-bill costs and everything else is in the Tech Manual.

I'm not totally sure on the edition numbers, but Total Warfare is the newest main rulebook.

The rule levels have disappeared in the new edition and the closest equivalent is simply the Era. Tech level 1 was basically the same as the 3025 Era, Tech level 2 was everything after 3025 including all Clan technology, that was core/tournament legal. Tech level 3 included a lot of optional/experimental equipment, it tended to include things like early versions of level 2 equipment with some faults like are using in some stories and scenarios, unconventional units like LAMs, and that sort of thing. Often things added to canon from earlier books that they kind of wanted to get rid of but didn't want to errata already established canon so simply made it level 3 and not tournament legal. All the old level 3 stuff falls into the other main rulebooks which they are working on now, which is all optional and not tournament legal. They also include a lot of other optional rules.

[Timberwolf]

I just had a play with that site. I've never built a mech in my life (I have no one to play the game with :( ) but, as far as I can see, I've created a fun ride. A 75 ton Clan heavy with a 2 ERPPC and 2 er meds as well as Endo Steel, a Targetting Computer, jump jets, 9 DHS (so almost heat neutral - 38 dissipated, 42 produced - I guess that'll be from an Alpha Strike but am not sure how they've set the site up) and 12.5 tons of ferro armour. Other toys include ECM, BAP and 3 AP pods just in case the flies get near. I put the weapons in the arms and spread everything around so as not to lose everything when cored. Walking speed is 5, running speed is 8 (which is the most it would let me have).

That seemed suspiciously easy... I have no idea if what I have created is good or not, but in my MW4 addled mind I can see it working, just about, as a hard to pin down harrasser from the edge of a fight. At a cost of 29.5 million cbills though, only the Clans with their utter lack of any need to worry about money would be fielding this.

[Guancyto]

Played (and loved) Mechcommander 2. Ahhhh, the 5 PPC MadCat, was ther no limit to its utility ? (and the 2 longtom Atlas)

! Hey, someone else that has played that!

...I was partial to the 8 (or was it 10? I forget) Pulse Laser Zeus, personally. Spec your pilot into lasers, medium range and called shots and you'd get multiple headshots a second.

Or loading light 'mechs up with as many Clan LRMs as they could fit.

[NeoVid]

Oh man, it's been a long time since I painted up all those 'mechs I had for Battletech 3rd edition.

Much as I love the entire setting, the only version I ever got to play very much was Mechwarrior Dark Age... until it died. Dammit.

So, anyone else here ever play at Virtual World? That was some of the most fun I ever had in my life. Whatever happened to the one I could get to... sigh.

[TheThan]

Oh man, it's been a long time since I painted up all those 'mechs I had for Battletech 3rd edition.

Much as I love the entire setting, the only version I ever got to play very much was Mechwarrior Dark Age... until it died. Dammit.

So, anyone else here ever play at Virtual World? That was some of the most fun I ever had in my life. Whatever happened to the one I could get to... sigh.

Mechwarrior Dark Age was a fantastic game. The only real problem was that it’s a clix game and therefor collectable. The rules were great (loved the order system), and the models were solid. Too bad wizkids decided to let the game die.

My bro’s got a large republic of the sphere army, as well as a small but elite force of house Davion. He’s got a few nova cats mechs (including, funny enough a nova cat), that I usually use as well as an assortment of other mechs and units.

[Ka-ther Fangfoot]

I downloaded the solaris skunk works and the megamek program. They are fun. At some point I think I would like to actually get some models. Is there any way to use the mechs I design in SSW in Megamek? I have mostly made era designs.

Right now I have a strange attraction to MRMs. Something about how huge the volleys get makes me happy. How good are they in battletech? In Mechwarrior four I designed a Catapult with a pair of MRM 40s, which is surprisingly effective at destroying assault mechs. Though it is surpassed by the vulture I made that fires 100 LRMs in a single volley.

One question I have from using SSW and Megamek, how do ultra and rotory ACs differ from normal ACs?

[SparkMandriller]

Ultras can shoot faster and possibly jam.
Rotaries can shoot a whole lot faster, and get more and more likely to jam the faster you shoot.

The ranges/weights/sizes are a little different, too, but you probably noticed that.

[Erloas]

Ultra ACs can (don't have to though) shoot twice, generating twice the listed heat and using twice the ammo. A hit is resolved on the cluster hit table, you don't roll to hit twice. Rotary ACs can shoot up to 6 times, also using the cluster hit table, generating heat and using ammo for each shot fired.

Ultras have the highest range, normal in the middle and RACs the shortest. Any shots greater then 1 have a chance of jamming the gun. I forget the exact formula for figuring out jamming, but I know it is a 2 for 2 shots and I think it is a 4 if you shoot all 6 times.
You have to state how many shots you are firing before making the roll to hit.

The SSW software has an option to export a 'Mech design (under file) in several different formats, including MegaMek.

I too looked at MRMs for a while because they have good numbers, however that +1 to hit really puts a damper on things. It wouldn't seem like that big of a deal but they didn't seem to hit very often for me. Personally it would have made more sense to me to have a modified cluster hit table roll rather then a to-hit number, if anything it would seem like that many missiles would be more likely to even accidentally hit something. If you like the potential numbers on the MRMs also have a look at the HAGs...

[Artanis]

Played (and loved) Mechcommander 2. Ahhhh, the 5 PPC MadCat, was ther no limit to its utility ? (and the 2 longtom Atlas)

I never got to play MC2. I heard about it before it came out, then it just seemed to vanish from the face of the earth. By the time I got an opportunity to buy it, it had stopped being sold.


In MechCommander 1, I went the opposite route, going with a bunch of fast-firing, lower-damage weapons. As awesome as it was to load up a Masakari with a trillion LRM racks and watch it obliterate anything in sight, doing that didn't get a lot of salvage. I wound up using lots of Large, ER Large, and Large Pulse Lasers, and it worked pretty well...except against Thors and Hunchbacks with their *&%@*#& H4X HACs.



Also, regardless of what games people have or have not played, every Battletech fan should watch the MechCommander 1 opening cinematic

[SparkMandriller]

Warhawks in MC1 sucked, they were way too slow. I always ended up leaving them in storage 'cause it took them forever to get to where the enemies were. Made the game boring.

[TheThan]

I too looked at MRMs for a while because they have good numbers, however that +1 to hit really puts a damper on things. It wouldn't seem like that big of a deal but they didn't seem to hit very often for me. Personally it would have made more sense to me to have a modified cluster hit table roll rather then a to-hit number, if anything it would seem like that many missiles would be more likely to even accidentally hit something. If you like the potential numbers on the MRMs also have a look at the HAGs...

I have a love/hate relationship with missiles in general.

They always seem pretty good, they can potentially deal a lot of damage, but that damage is spread out, so you end up with a sand blast effect. That’s OK, I can combo a catapult with something that can punch through armor like an Awesome and still be effective. The catapult softens up the target while the awesome finishes it off.

The problem is that I almost always roll crap for cluster hits. Yay I rolled three again, and then the few times I don’t roll crap, I’m using a light set of missiles so I’m still not doing a whole lot of damage. its quite frustrating. I typically play IS so streaks are hard to come by.

[Ka-ther Fangfoot]

It seems to me from what I have seen playing MegaMek that you would want to use the missiles after your big guns, not first. Since I like the pre-clan inner sphere I was playing with lots of early mechs, and it seemed like ammo explosions and suchlike are what kills many mechs, and that comes from getting critical hits, which are on a per-hit basis, so you want to have lots of stuff hit once the armor is down, so missiles. Unless of course higher damage boosts the critical hit roll, in which case you do want the big guns to punch through.

[Philistine]

Ultras can shoot faster and possibly jam.
Rotaries can shoot a whole lot faster, and get more and more likely to jam the faster you shoot.

The ranges/weights/sizes are a little different, too, but you probably noticed that.

Also: When an Ultra jams, that weapon is out of the fight. When a Rotary jams, the pilot has a chance to clear it.

Also also: The Rotary AC/2 finally provides a reason to load 45 rounds of ammunition!

[TheThan]

yeah, that's the other option I forgot to mention. You potentially score alot of crits with missiles, due to cluster damage. I forgot to mention that. also the whole sand blast thing works well against lighter armored mechs, and not so much against the mechs with lots of armor.

Another thing that bugs me is that I’ve been looking through a lot of mechs lately and I’m a bit disturbed by the lack of firepower on a lot of assault mechs. When I think of an assault mech, I picture something with a scary amount of firepower, you something you can use to assault something. Yet I’ve found mechs that are half its tonnage that either meet or exceed the firepower of some of these assault mechs. Why would I want to bring a banshee 3Q (1 AC 20 and 1 small laser), when I could bring a bushwhacker and a whitworth for the same tonnage and have more firepower?

[Timberwolf]

The basic Banshee is well known as being a bastion of suck albeit a very, very early bastion of suck. They kinda fixed it though by making a version with 2 PPCs and a Gauss Rifle.

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Banshee

[Artanis]

*pokes around for a while*

Huh.

Apparently, the source code for MechCommander 2 was released a few years ago, so it's free to d/l

...yeah, I may be gone for a while.

[Winterwind]

In the case of the old Banshee, it's actually the 'Mech's fluff that it is considered a grotesquely underarmed mis-design by the commanders and pilots of the BattleTech universe themselves. So, the 'Mech being bad is quite deliberate.

[Alex Knight]

In the case of the old Banshee, it's actually the 'Mech's fluff that it is considered a grotesquely underarmed mis-design by the commanders and pilots of the BattleTech universe themselves. So, the 'Mech being bad is quite deliberate.

And yet....it was better than the CGR-1A1 Charger.

Seriously though, if you want an early-era Assault 'Mech, you want the AWS-8Q Awesome, STK-3F Stalker, or the HGN-733 Highlander. Those three machines scare the bajeebers out of opposing forces in their time.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Ultra ACs can (don't have to though) shoot twice, generating twice the listed heat and using twice the ammo. A hit is resolved on the cluster hit table, you don't roll to hit twice. Rotary ACs can shoot up to 6 times, also using the cluster hit table, generating heat and using ammo for each shot fired.

I thought a UAC fired twice with two shots, but the RAC used the appropriate SRM table to determine how many shots in the volley actually hit. So a RAC firing 4 shots would roll on the SRM/4 table to see how many of the shots actually landed.

Ultras have the highest range, normal in the middle and RACs the shortest. Any shots greater then 1 have a chance of jamming the gun. I forget the exact formula for figuring out jamming, but I know it is a 2 for 2 shots and I think it is a 4 if you shoot all 6 times.
You have to state how many shots you are firing before making the roll to hit.

RAC's can only be in RAC/2 and RAC/5, at least in Tech 2, so they've both got some superior range. In particular, I like using a RAC/5 to replace the AC/20 on a Hunchback, and more ammo. Makes for a much more versatile mech which doesn't run out of ammo quite so quickly.

The SSW software has an option to export a 'Mech design (under file) in several different formats, including MegaMek.

I too looked at MRMs for a while because they have good numbers, however that +1 to hit really puts a damper on things. It wouldn't seem like that big of a deal but they didn't seem to hit very often for me. Personally it would have made more sense to me to have a modified cluster hit table roll rather then a to-hit number, if anything it would seem like that many missiles would be more likely to even accidentally hit something. If you like the potential numbers on the MRMs also have a look at the HAGs...

Yea, the MRM's at first blush look pretty awesome, but when you use them, they tend to not shine. The +1 really is a significantly deciding factor, just like the -2 on the Pulse Lasers make them exceedingly effective (at least for Clan, IS PL's are too short-ranged for them to really be worth as much).

Since you are using a lot of Clan tech, may I direct your missile needs to the ATM? It's basically a combination LRM/SRM/WTFBBQ all in one, depending on the ammo loads. You've got one which has a max range of 15, that does 2 damage a shot, one with a max range of 9 with 3 damage a shot, and a load with a max range of 27 that only does 1 damage a shot.

So, basically, you've got an SRM which does 3 damage instead of 2, and has a max load of 12 shots for a total of 36 damage from one weapon system, an SRM/12 with a range of 15, or an LRM/12 with the longest range of any non-artillery weapon in the game. With the same weapon.

Flexible tactics? Clan has them.

If you want to throw the Clanners a loop, have your IS guys run with C3 network set up, and watch the fun. Maybe even TAG, and Semi-Guided Missiles. They'll be wondering how your missile mechs are able to fire when they don't have LoS and how they are so darn accurate from so far out. At least until they figure out the trick and start packing Guardian ECM.

And yet....it was better than the CGR-1A1 Charger.

Seriously though, if you want an early-era Assault 'Mech, you want the AWS-8Q Awesome, STK-3F Stalker, or the HGN-733 Highlander. Those three machines scare the bajeebers out of opposing forces in their time.

And the AS7-D Atlas. Never forget the Atlas. The Archer and Catapult are also staple missile support mechs from 3025. And the Locust is one of my favorite Light mechs in the game!

Upgrading 3025 mechs with Tech 2 equipment has been a hobby of mine for a while now. Some of 'em can get real nasty.

The Charger, for instance. Worst mech in the game. But with an XL Engine, Triple Strength Myomer, MASC, and a Hatchet... suddenly he gets a lot more dangerous.

[Winterwind]

I thought a UAC fired twice with two shots, but the RAC used the appropriate SRM table to determine how many shots in the volley actually hit. So a RAC firing 4 shots would roll on the SRM/4 table to see how many of the shots actually landed.

No, Erloas has it right; Ultra ACs roll on the SRM table as well.

[leafman]

Wow just looking through the thread and I barely recognise anything you guys are talking about. I used to play Mechwarrior when it was Dark Age/Death From Above/Fire for Effect etc. series, I still have a pretty good size army of Highlanders (my favorite faction).
My favorite mech I had was the Joel Brane Koshi. The thing could jump in to melee range pretty fast, tear up on opposing light mechs and vehicles, and get out of range of heavy mechs like Atlas's and Jupiters in a single turn if you ran it. Plus if I remember right he had streak missles to fire around terrain.

[Winterwind]

Wow just looking through the thread and I barely recognise anything you guys are talking about. I used to play Mechwarrior when it was Dark Age/Death From Above/Fire for Effect etc. series, I still have a pretty good size army of Highlanders (my favorite faction).
My favorite mech I had was the Joel Brane Koshi. The thing could jump in to melee range pretty fast, tear up on opposing light mechs and vehicles, and get out of range of heavy mechs like Atlas's and Jupiters in a single turn if you ran it. Plus if I remember right he had streak missles to fire around terrain.

That's because most of the people here are talking about Classic BattleTech, which is a completely different game than MechWarrior: The Dark Age, and existed for almost twenty years before WizKids came up with MechWarrior.