Warhammer 40K Tactics IV - The Enemy of Your Enemy is Still Your Enemy.

[Arcanoi]

Any ork mob should base their army off this.

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Warboss (Tagged with Nob Mob)
-Power Klaw
-Twin-Linked Shoota
-'Eavy Armor
-Bosspole
100 Points

Nobs x 5
-Sluggas and Choppas x 2
-Power Klaw x 2
-'Eavy Armor x 5
-Stikkbombz
-Pain boy with Grot Orderly
-Cybork Body x 5
240 Points

Boyz x 20
-Shootas x 18
-Big Shootas x 2
-Nob with Boss Pole
145 points

Boyz x 12
-Choppas and Sluggas
-Trukk
-Nob with Boss Pole, Power Klaw
147 Points

Total : 632 Points

The Warboss is given, the Nobs are the given retinue, the Shoota Boyz are there to lay down more than 40 dice, and the Trukk Boyz are there for quick Assault. At this point, you could add more Trukk Boyz, some Footsloggas, or look into your heavy supports and fast assaults.

[Myatar_Panwar]

I completely agree. My friend who plays a pretty successful (at least in our group) ork army always has at least that.

Only thing I would add is a PK to your shoota squad. They may have firepower, but you shouldn't be treating them differently than any other boyz unit (aside from when to run/shoot of course).

[Shas aia Toriia]

I'm pretty sure Blood Angels are already confirmed next. They come out in March.
Following that, I know that the Inquisition is in work, and either Necrons or DE are as well.
Also, another variant marine chapter, though that comes as a surprise to nobody. Right now it seems to be Dark Angels, though I remain hopeful for a Black Templars update.

[Arcanoi]

I think it's going to be Codex: Angels of Death with both the Dark Angels and Blood Angels.

[Cheesegear]

Only thing I would add is a PK to your shoota squad. They may have firepower, but you shouldn't be treating them differently than any other boyz unit...

That's why Orks are great. Even their 'shooty' squads still boast 2 attacks each and Furious Charge. And can fully Assault just like regular Orks since Choppas now do nothing. They just have one less attack than the others. And '1 less' means 2. Orks are great.

Lycan: Gain Trukks by dropping Meganobs. At 750 points, Trukks will help you a lot more than MNs will.

[Tren]

I'm pretty sure Blood Angels are already confirmed next. They come out in March.
Following that, I know that the Inquisition is in work, and either Necrons or DE are as well.
Also, another variant marine chapter, though that comes as a surprise to nobody. Right now it seems to be Dark Angels, though I remain hopeful for a Black Templars update.

According to Warseer, Blood Angels are next and supposedly are only "half the story" with then a fleet-based marine army "winging it's way." Whether that's indicative of a new Angels of Death codex, or back to back BA and DA releases I don't know. If they do have two consecutive Marine releases (one of which for a dex that's only two years old) I will have to stab somebody.

Also from Warseer, DH and WH are supposedly starting the development cycle, Necrons and DE are mostly done. The rumors seem to indicate we'll get at least one more Xenos book this year which could be either Necrons or DE. I'm personally banking on DE, being that we know Jes Goodwin has been working on the models for over a year, their greater inclusion in newer fluff (a la Planetstrike and Lukas the Trickster), and the Xenos terrain on the horizon including "Eldar Webway Gates." Could be I'm just hoping here-- but being that we can basically know the DE models are done, and all we know for sure on Necrons is that "they're coming," I'm leaning towards DE.

[dsmiles]

What I mean is that they effect all tau (They do not specify friendly or unfriendly) units including your opponents if they have line of sight.

-Therefore if you buy one for your army your opponent just got all the benefits without wasting the points.
-If you need preferred enemy you are in close combat and if you are you can not take the moral check to gain preferred enemy when the ethereal dies (seams like stupid logic to me but its how it works)
-They only effect moral checks there are plenty of leadership check that are not effected be sure to note the difference if you every run into a rules lawyer he will call you out on it
-Tau suck at CC and his ability helps that.... again doesn't make much sense (he doesn't even effect the units which could use it)
-their equipment aint even that good, there low armor means they are just asking to die and make your entire army run off the board

But seriously, how often do Tau fight Tau? It's not like we're IG or SM...

[Cheesegear]

But seriously, how often do Tau fight Tau? It's not like we're IG or SM...

Just out of curiosity dsmiles, does your Crisis Battle Leader have a Shield Drone named Little Wooden Boy? And everytime the Shield Drone dies, does your leader say "Oh Little Wooden Boy!"

On a super-cool conversion note; What's the size of a Crisis Suit compared to a teaspoon? Or, even a smaller measuring spoon? Or would I be better off doing this conversion with an Ironclad Dreadnought?

[Etcetera]

I'm sure I heard something before about a Crisis Suit armed with spoons.
http://content.etilize.com/Large/1011487288.jpg
A plastic teaspoon of around this size is about 2-3 cm taller than a crisis.
What?

[Lycan 01]

Well, I bought my buddy the Space Marine Codex, and we teamed up to buy another friend a Tau Fire Warrior kit. Man, this is turning into a Grim Dark Christmas...

Also found out Boyz and Trukks were cheaper than I remembered. 20 bucks for 11 Boyz, and 27 bucks for a Trukk. So hopefully I'll be able to save up some cash and grab these guys ASAP...

[Copper8642]

Ok, so my chance to get some Warhammer models may actually come soon, like, next week. And I've decided on.... Warhammer Fantasy. High Elves.

So thanks for listening to my questions and statements for the past.... year or so. And... I'll still be here, dunno why I'm writing this like a farewell.

[Shas aia Toriia]

Ok, so my chance to get some Warhammer models may actually come soon, like, next week. And I've decided on.... Warhammer Fantasy. High Elves.

So thanks for listening to my questions and statements for the past.... year or so. And... I'll still be here, dunno why I'm writing this like a farewell.

High Elves? Why, when the Wood Elves are right out in the open?

[Copper8642]

Pshaw, they aren't out in the open, they're all hiding in the woods!

Also, I will stop talking about this and bring it to the Fantasy thread where it belongs. My apologies for the off-topic-ness.

[Vazzaroth]

Not sure if this is a rules-question... area or not, but I don't see a better place to place this, and I'm sure there's some talented 40K vets here to field this.

Can an Ork Weirdboy make a Psychic test (not his unique power selection test) while falling back with a unit? It seems to me he can, as falling back units fail morale, not leadership (and/or psychic) tests, yes?

[Cheesegear]

Can an Ork Weirdboy make a Psychic test (not his unique power selection test) while falling back with a unit? It seems to me he can, as falling back units fail morale, not leadership (and/or psychic) tests, yes?

Yes. Psyking is a Leadership check, not a Morale check. And models are allowed to make shooting attacks (which some psychic powers count as) when falling back.

[Mattarias, King.]

On the note of spoony conversions, I've noticed that the tiny sugar spoons from those kid-sized play tea sets might be a good size for converting. I'd post pics but I can't find the right picture for the life of me, and I own no camera.

..On a sidenote, any suggestions on fighting Orks in small tables? They get wicked close wicked fast and I can get one, maybe two flamer shots off before I get stuck in combat and die horribly.

Lists are pretty standard. Mine's this:

Spoiler

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Canoness: (145)
-Jump pack (20)
-Power weapon (10)
--Blessed Weapon (30)
-cloak of st. aspira (20)
-Combi-flamer (10)
-Brazier of Holy Fire (10)

Battle sister squad 1 (161)
VSS (49)
-plasma pistol (15)
-Power weapon (10)
Battle Sisters
2 flamers (12 points)


Battle sister squad 2 (161)
VSS (49)
-plasma pistol (15)
-Power weapon (10)
Battle Sisters
2 flamers (12 points)

Proxy Seraphim Squad, (178)
VSS (32)
-Brazier of holy fire (10)
-Power Weapon (10)
-Bolter (2)
Sisters:
-2 with hand flamers (14 points)

Total: 645 points.

+2 extra, unused ladies with meltas.

...Unsure about my math, but yeah. Ork list is close in points. Two ten squads of boyz, one of nobz with a warboss, and three deff koptas. The black reach set, basically. With upgrades.

[Lycan 01]

Get a bigger table. Seriously. There's always a larger battlefield, like a kitchen counter or living room floor. I'm pretty sure the rulebook mentioned a minimum table size, or at least the optimum measurements...

But yeah, the Ork player should be willing to move to a slightly larger table, at least for the sake of fairness. I'd be willing to change at least, even if it costs me the game...

[Penguinizer]

For 1500 point games, the most common table size I've seen is 48x48". Orks can still close the gap on a table that large pretty quickly though.

[Lycan 01]

We usually play on the living room floor, set up a 5x5 foot area, and scatter lego buildings and plastic fences and other bits of cover around.

[Vazzaroth]

Does anyone think it would be a bad idea to load up a battlewagon with a deffrolla with 10 Meganobz and use that as sort of a core sledgehammer of an ork army? Thats been my plan with my army since I started, and before I buy all those expensive units I wonder if anyone thinks its not a good idea. I know that if the BW gets taken out in the first turn I'm going to be left foot-slogging ten large, slow meganobz across the field, but a 14 frontal armor isn't too shabby, eh?

[MountainKing]

On the note of spoony conversions, I've noticed that the tiny sugar spoons from those kid-sized play tea sets might be a good size for converting. I'd post pics but I can't find the right picture for the life of me, and I own no camera.

..On a sidenote, any suggestions on fighting Orks in small tables? They get wicked close wicked fast and I can get one, maybe two flamer shots off before I get stuck in combat and die horribly.

Lists are pretty standard. Mine's this:

Spoiler

Show

Canoness: (145)
-Jump pack (20)
-Power weapon (10)
--Blessed Weapon (30)
-cloak of st. aspira (20)
-Combi-flamer (10)
-Brazier of Holy Fire (10)

Battle sister squad 1 (161)
VSS (49)
-plasma pistol (15)
-Power weapon (10)
Battle Sisters
2 flamers (12 points)


Battle sister squad 2 (161)
VSS (49)
-plasma pistol (15)
-Power weapon (10)
Battle Sisters
2 flamers (12 points)

Proxy Seraphim Squad, (178)
VSS (32)
-Brazier of holy fire (10)
-Power Weapon (10)
-Bolter (2)
Sisters:
-2 with hand flamers (14 points)

Total: 645 points.

+2 extra, unused ladies with meltas.

...Unsure about my math, but yeah. Ork list is close in points. Two ten squads of boyz, one of nobz with a warboss, and three deff koptas. The black reach set, basically. With upgrades.

Again, I think your Canoness is overloaded. For example, I don't believe you can take both the Sacred Weapon (two handed) with a combi-weapon (bolter+flamer, annnd I believe Bolters are two handed also), with a brazier (counts as second CC weapon... but, you definitely can't use that with the Sacred Weapon, and I don't think you can use it with the bolter).

[Shas aia Toriia]

Also, Games Workshop doesn't like when you post specific point totals.
So, for example:

Canoness: (145)
-Jump pack (20)
-Power weapon (10)
--Blessed Weapon (30)
-cloak of st. aspira (20)
-Combi-flamer (10)
-Brazier of Holy Fire (10)

should intead be this:

Canoness: (145)
-Jump pack
-Power weapon
--Blessed Weapon
-cloak of st. aspira
-Combi-flamer
-Brazier of Holy Fire

EDIT: Wait, you're playing on a 5x5 table and you're complaining that they close the gap too quickly? That's loads of time to shoot 'em up real good before they get up close.

[Arcanoi]

His Canoness isn't TECHNICALLY overloaded, but he is wasting 30 points on it...

Remember, you can only use ONE of the loadouts during any turn. So with your Current Canoness loadout, you'd only be able to shoot with the bolter/flamer and have 3 S3 CCW attacks, fire the flamer and have 4 S3 CCW (Not PW, as the Rulebook now says that having one PW and one CCW means your attacks count as CCW) attacks, or not shoot but have 3 S5 PW attacks.

It SHOULD look like this.

Canoness (Tags with Seraphim)
-Jump Pack
-Blessed Weapon
-Cloak of Saint Aspira
115 Points

In fact, your list could use a bit of work...

Your Seraphim Superior is also tagged with the same crap you pulled with your Canoness....

I recommend this.

Spoiler

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Canoness (Tags with Seraphim)
-Jump Pack
-Blessed Weapon
-Cloak of Saint Aspira
115 Points

Sisters x 10
-Sister Superior
--Power Weapon
--Plasma Pistol
-Flamer x 2
161 Points

Sisters x 10
-Sister Superior
--Power Weapon
--Plasma Pistol
-Flamer x 2
161 Points

Seraphim x 6
-Veteran Superior
--Brazier of Holy Flame
--Inferno Pistol
-Hand Flamers x 2
-Melta Bombs x 6
205 Points

Total: 642 Points

[crazedloon]

On the note of spoony conversions, I've noticed that the tiny sugar spoons from those kid-sized play tea sets might be a good size for converting. I'd post pics but I can't find the right picture for the life of me, and I own no camera.

..On a sidenote, any suggestions on fighting Orks in small tables? They get wicked close wicked fast and I can get one, maybe two flamer shots off before I get stuck in combat and die horribly.

Lists are pretty standard. Mine's this:

Spoiler

Show

Canoness: (145)
-Jump pack (20)
-Power weapon (10)
--Blessed Weapon (30)
-cloak of st. aspira (20)
-Combi-flamer (10)
-Brazier of Holy Fire (10)

Battle sister squad 1 (161)
VSS (49)
-plasma pistol (15)
-Power weapon (10)
Battle Sisters
2 flamers (12 points)


Battle sister squad 2 (161)
VSS (49)
-plasma pistol (15)
-Power weapon (10)
Battle Sisters
2 flamers (12 points)

Proxy Seraphim Squad, (178)
VSS (32)
-Brazier of holy fire (10)
-Power Weapon (10)
-Bolter (2)
Sisters:
-2 with hand flamers (14 points)

Total: 645 points.

+2 extra, unused ladies with meltas.

...Unsure about my math, but yeah. Ork list is close in points. Two ten squads of boyz, one of nobz with a warboss, and three deff koptas. The black reach set, basically. With upgrades.

page 20 in the codex clearly says only 2 weapons per character and only 1 of those can be 2 handed

now with the above rules in effect you drop
-2x brazier
-blessed weapon
- bolter (pistol is better on the saraphim for the extra attack)

which means an additional 52 points simply for legality

Now onto the list itself (everything below is my opinion so take with a grain of salt)

I would suggest dropping the plasma pistols as they are no good with sisters for a couple of reasons
-they only have a range of 12" which means ether you have moved within that range and are in assault range
-a bolter double tapping with acts of faith can be better than a plasma pistol

if you do that you have 30 more points

I would suggest upgrading 2 flamers (1/unit) to heavy flamers for the added punch they give you

I like imagifers in each unit to guarantee you get your acts of faith off when you need them (admittedly still not 100% but does help)

next I would suggest rhinos for more versatility as well as your own maneuverability. they give you the ability to position them to block line of sight as well as cause units to go around for assault which allows you to determine which assaults you want to avoid and which you want to get into.

The last thing I can suggest is remember you always want to be the one assaulting. It is always better to assault than to be assaulted, particularly against orks which all have furious charge and who are slower than your sisters.

edit: I would also agree with adding melta bombs to your saraphim

[Cheesegear]

In fact, your list could use a bit of work...

Your Seraphim Superior is also tagged with the same crap you pulled with your Canoness....

I recommend this.

*list*

The Canoness needs a Bolt Pistol. Or, since she is getting up close, real fast, she might think about an Inferno Pistol.

Drop the Plasma Pistols on all Superiors. Go for regular bolt pistols or maybe Combi-Flamer or Brazier + Power Weapon. Or, Eviscerator and Bolt Pistol. A Plasma Pistol just wont see that much use (and never does, not even in Space Marine lists), and you might even just blow yourself up. With those spare points you just made you can add melta bombs since you are getting up close.

Drop a flamer for more Heavy Flamers. Rhinos are needed if you're fielding flamers. Imagifiers are always good too. Ninja'd.

More Eviscerators are required. Strength 3 just doesn't cut it (pun!) in this grim and dark galaxy we live in.

[MountainKing]

More Eviscerators are required. Strength 3 just doesn't cut it (pun!) in this grim and dark galaxy we live in.

I agree with Cheesegear on this one. Eviscerators are tasty, and Sisters Repentia (in my experience) are even tastier, especially lead by a Canoness and a Priest.

[Mattarias, King.]

Herp, sorry for the late response guys. X-mas eve festivities and all that. Wow.... Thanks. I feel stupid. I'll get on fixing that stuff right away. Reaallyy explains where all my points went and why they weren't effective.. Also, yeah, rassafrassin' plasma pistols..

Definitely looking into an immolator.

..One thing though. Eviscirators.. Make you go on inish 1. By that time, Orks probably woulda taken out whoever was wielding them, non?

Edit: And I thought "blessed weapon" was a buff to an existing weapon, like "masterwork". Huh. Guess I was going about it wrong.. Damn wording.

[Cheesegear]

..One thing though. Eviscirators.. Make you go on inish 1. By that time, Orks probably woulda taken out whoever was wielding them, non?

No. That's what the other nine bodies in the unit are for.

[Shas aia Toriia]

And unlelss you have really bad luck, at least some of them should survive.

[Cheesegear]

And unlelss you have really bad luck, at least some of them should survive.

Well, Orks don't have Power Weapons in large quantities. So, most Sisters' 3+ save should work quite nicely, even if they do have Toughness 3, a 3+ save is very powerful. You should survive most things until the Orks start on their Power Klaws, which, strike at the same time as Eviscerators, so, you should be okay. Or, you can Act of Faith to have your Eviscerators strike at Initiative 3.

Still, I don't know why you're getting into Assault with Orks in the first place. Sisters pack - or should pack - Storm Bolters and Flamers by the truckRhinoload. There should only be three Orks - ever - that make it into Assault, if that. Orks are one of the easiest opponents Sisters can face.