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    Default [3.5 / PF] Best Metamagic Feats for my character

    Edit: Question answered, many thanks.

    Hi everyone!

    I'm looking for advice on what feat to take at 7th level (Pathfinder). I am leaning toward metamagic.

    Here is the situation. I am playing a Pathfinder wizard, an abjuration specialist (because they get the some of the handiest school powers in PF). I am human and have Int 18. I'm 5th level. We're playing through Expedition to Castle Ravenloft (and we just rolled into town, so please no spoilers!).

    My current feats are:
    *Spell Focus: Conjuration
    *Greater Spell Focus: Conjuration
    *Spell Focus: Necromancy
    *Greater Spell Focus: Necromancy
    *Extend Spell

    While I know this is not a super optimised build, it is very optimised for our group, which tends to think that Core is balanced and Fighters are just fine. (I know.) The fact that I took Evocation as one of my banned schools really blew their minds. I think they might have rioted if I hadn't shown how useful I can be during the little pre-adventure we ran. They are still getting used to a battlefield control wizard who buffs or locks down. I told them my motto is "I min-max so you don't have to." :D

    Point being, right now I've got high save DCs on undead-halting spells, a pile of buffs to hand out, the best AC in the group (Dex 16 + ext mage armour + tower shield (nonproficient) + ring of protect + amult nat armr + defending dagger +1), energy resistance all day against one energy of my choice (school power), protection from arrows for most of any given day, and false life for most of any given day. I can tank. (Tanking with DC 17 colour sprays is actually quite fun!).

    The weaknesses of my build include low saves (not a great wisdom score, no cloak of resistance yet) and lack of blasting spells. Also, like any wizard I would love more spells known or spells per day.

    So, first question, should I be looking at a metamagic feat for my next feat or at something else?

    Second question, if metamagic, which one? Chain Spell seems handy but at CL7 I can only Chain 1st level spells. Quicken Spell is the best of course but I could only quicken 0th level spells, so meh. I could take one of those at 9th level instead and get something else meanwhile.

    Approved books include PHB, PHBII, Complete Adventurer, Pathfinder, and I could probably get approval on something from Dungeonscape or Heroes of Horror. I presume all the good stuff is in Complete Mage or Complete Arcane but we don't have a copy. I got Chain Spell approved by finding a copy of the description and talking it over with my GM.

    And no Eschew Materials - I've never seen a spell pouch sundered or stolen in 4 years with this group.

    All help appreciated!

    TLDR: What metamagic feat is most useful for a Wiz7?
    Last edited by Another_Poet; 2009-12-15 at 04:38 PM.
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    Default Re: [3.5 / PF] Best Metamagic Feats for my character

    What metamagic feat is most useful overall? Quicken. However, you can only quicken cantrips at this level, so it isn't great. Metamagic'ing just doesn't work all that well without reducers if you are at low level.

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    Default Re: [3.5 / PF] Best Metamagic Feats for my character

    How are you casting spells while using a tower shield? Isn't the 50% ASF a bit of a problem?

    Quicken spell is really nice... at higher levels. I was going to recommend Extend Spell but you already have it. Sculpt Spell can be handy.

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    Default Re: [3.5 / PF] Best Metamagic Feats for my character

    @Milskidasith: So how do I get me some reducers?

    @Glimbur: I just drop it before casting. Tower shield is the only shield that doesn't specify it is strapped on, and real shields that big are held (not strapped on) so GM agreed it is a free action to drop, instead of a move action to remove.

    What's cool is that as an abjuration school power I can activate a 10' radius aura of +2 deflection bonus to AC to myself & all allies, so if I'm conserving spells I can just walk behind the fighter or rogue with my big shield up and give them AC boost with no failure rate (it's not a spell).
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    Default Re: [3.5 / PF] Best Metamagic Feats for my character

    Quote Originally Posted by Another_Poet View Post
    @Milskidasith: So how do I get me some reducers?
    Metamagic reducers: Arcane Thesis is possible. Incantatrix is possible, but cheesy. Practical Metamagic would require you to be dragonblooded and cast spontaneously. The Halruaan Elder PrC would require you to spend two feats, but gets you a good deal of metamagic reducers and the ability to cast certain spells spontaneously (qualifying for practical metamagic, if you want.)

    None of those are really viable at your level, though, or with your feat options. Maybe get energy substition? I could have sworn there was a way to substitute in positive energy, which would heal you and hurt undead.

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    Default Re: [3.5 / PF] Best Metamagic Feats for my character

    Quote Originally Posted by Milskidasith View Post
    Metamagic reducers: Arcane Thesis is possible.
    That's from that mage PrC in DMG, isn't it? I might go that route eventually.

    Incantatrix is possible, but cheesy.
    What book is it from?

    Practical Metamagic would require you to be dragonblooded and cast spontaneously.
    Unlikely...

    The Halruaan Elder PrC would require you to spend two feats, but gets you a good deal of metamagic reducers and the ability to cast certain spells spontaneously (qualifying for practical metamagic, if you want.)
    And which book is this one from? :)

    Maybe get energy substition? I could have sworn there was a way to substitute in positive energy, which would heal you and hurt undead.
    This would be perfect! My character's backstory is that he is a monk (a friar of Hades, but only for flavour - no monk levels, don't worry!). The party cleric is his sister. Wielding positive energy would make a lot of sense. Where do I find Energy Substitution?

    Also, can someone tell me if Sculpt Spell is actually useful when you have no Evocation spells?

    ap
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    Default Re: [3.5 / PF] Best Metamagic Feats for my character

    ]That's from that mage PrC in DMG, isn't it? I might go that route eventually.
    No, it's a feat from the PHB 2. Take one spell, you cast it at CL+2 and all metamagic applied is -1, to a minimum of zero (so an extended AT spell is a +0, a quickened extended is a +3 (+3 +0), etc.

    What book is it from?
    Magic of Faerun, and you can find it on a web excerpt.

    And which book is this one from? :)
    It's pretty much strictly worse than incantatrix, and it's in shining south, I believe.

    This would be perfect! My character's backstory is that he is a monk (a friar of Hades, but only for flavour - no monk levels, don't worry!). The party cleric is his sister. Wielding positive energy would make a lot of sense. Where do I find Energy Substitution?
    No clue.

    Also, can someone tell me if Sculpt Spell is actually useful when you have no Evocation spells?
    Sculpt spell lets you make weird things with grease. Multiple 10 foot cubes of grease. Odd.

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    Default Re: [3.5 / PF] Best Metamagic Feats for my character

    If you use a lot of summons, then Augment Summoning (PH) might be a good choice, especially because you could take Imbue Summoning (PH2) after that. Adding a buff spell for free to your summons as a +1 metamagic is quite potent.

    Energy Substitution is from Complete Arcane.
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    Default Re: [3.5 / PF] Best Metamagic Feats for my character

    Thanks guys. I think one of the following is what I'll do. I'd be interested in hearing your votes on which one is best:

    1) Arcane Thesis (Blindness) (retrain Extend Spell to this at next level) + Chain Spell (meaning I can Blind up to 10 enemies with a single 4th level spell slot at 7th level)

    2) Augment Summoning (retrain Extend Spell to get this at next level up) + Imbue Summoning to add Haste to summons

    3) Sculpt Spell.

    4) Energy Substitution (Positive Energy - remember, it's an Undead campaign)
    Last edited by Another_Poet; 2009-12-09 at 03:53 PM.
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    Default Re: [3.5 / PF] Best Metamagic Feats for my character

    Quote Originally Posted by Another_Poet View Post
    This would be perfect! My character's backstory is that he is a monk (a friar of Hades, but only for flavour - no monk levels, don't worry!). The party cleric is his sister. Wielding positive energy would make a lot of sense. Where do I find Energy Substitution?
    You can't actually take Energy Substitution for positive energy, only for acid, cold, electricity, or fire. However, you *can* take Energize Spell (from Libris Mortis), which is a +1 adjustment and makes the spell do 50% extra damage against undead and 50% less damage against non-undead creatures and objects.
    Quote Originally Posted by Thespianus View Post
    I fail to see how "No, that guy is too fat to be hurt by your fire" would make sense.

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    Default Re: [3.5 / PF] Best Metamagic Feats for my character

    Metamagic I love:

    Sculpt Spell [CArc]: +1 to alter the shape of a spell. Awesome with stuff like Grease, Glitterdust, Fog Cloud and all kinds of useful area-effect spells you'd want to affect a larger number of enemies with. At +1, easily affordable.

    Chain Spell [CArc]: +3 so it's a hefty price, but Chained Dispel Magic, buff spells and various Rays are exceedingly useful, lessening the price of your buff suite by tons and eliminating a bunch of buffed-up opponents AND their gears with one Dispel.

    Extend Spell: You've already got it so not extrapolating here.


    Additional means of reducing metamagic costs:
    Metamagic School Focus [CMage]: 3/day, you may reduce the cost of metamagic applied to 1 spell by 1.

    Easy Metamagic [DR###]: Like Practical Metamagic, except non-race specific.
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    Default Re: [3.5 / PF] Best Metamagic Feats for my character

    I just want to say 100,000 thank-you's to everyone who posted with suggestions. I found write-ups of the feats mentioned here and ran them by the GM with my explanation for why I would like them. He is currently considering them (reading them more closely, etc) but it sounds like the answer will be "sure, as long as you don't try to take them all and stack them to get your metamagic spell level adjustment down to +0."

    Awesome. Thanks guys!

    P.S. Little bit of bragging, contains Ranveloft spoiler
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    We just fought the evil cleric in the church. I successfully counterspelled his CL 23 scroll of Circle of Death, invisibility sphere'd up with the rogue to backstab him, and leapt into the hole to the basement to chase him down - alone. Webbed his CR 9 beasty (Blasphemer?), then re-webbed after he dispelled the web. Halt undead'd a bunch of the minions, too. Our own cleric put Heat Metal on his armour and then I Englarged and bull rushed him into the web. Ultimately I was laid low to -6 by that ridiculous CR 9 Blasphemer and I was 1 round away from rising as an undead myself when our cleric managed to heal me back to positive hit points. I wasn't the one to strike the final death blow to either the cleric nor the Blasphemer, but I don't think anyone in the party failed to notice that I pwn'd. And managed to set up everybody else for useful stuff, too (except the fighter - he asked why I hadn't hasted him and I pointed out that he was 2 rounds away from giving chase to the cleric while I was hot on his tail. Maybe he'll lead from the front next time ).
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    Default Re: [3.5 / PF] Best Metamagic Feats for my character

    Fell Drain. Only +2, and negative levels meshes well with almost any spell.
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    Default Re: [3.5 / PF] Best Metamagic Feats for my character

    I think if I told my GM that I was going to make him apply dead levels to multiple creatures at least once per session he would reach over the screen and strangle me to death.

    Actually, I wonder if they made negative levels less bookkeeping in Pathfinder... maybe, I'll have to check.
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    You can grab it on Kindle or paperback.

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    Default Re: [3.5 / PF] Best Metamagic Feats for my character

    Quote Originally Posted by Another_Poet View Post
    I think if I told my GM that I was going to make him apply dead levels to multiple creatures at least once per session he would reach over the screen and strangle me to death.

    Actually, I wonder if they made negative levels less bookkeeping in Pathfinder... maybe, I'll have to check.
    Actually, since Negative Level is merely "-1 to all rolls and -5 to HP, lose highest level spell", it's not as bad as it could be. I think 3.5 creators foresaw that problem and made it easier than actually deleveling whatever creature you're dealing with. Now, once they become PERMANENT, that's another can o' worms entirely.
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    Default Re: [3.5 / PF] Best Metamagic Feats for my character

    I'm a fan of reach meta magic myself.

    If you'd like to go heavy on the meta magic, Metaphysical spellshaper out of the Book of Naught Bits is a 3 level PrC that grants you a net-1 on metamagics when applied, the ability to spontaneously add them by taking stat damage and an extra mm feat. Granted,, the rest of the book is crap, but every pile of junk holds a gem.


    Also I'm reminded to go read the Sewers campaign journal ^_^
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