prestige classes which grant 9th level divine besides ur priest

[Matamane]

I am dipping 3 levels of cleric, are there any good prestige classes to capitalize the investment with?

[Thrice Dead Cat]

I am dipping 3 levels of cleric, are there any good prestige classes to capitalize the investment with?

Divine Champion gets 9th level spells... from one domain.

Currently, what level are you and in what class(es)? Also, sources?

[Matamane]

Gestalt, still in creation process though, and contemplating replacing Artificer w/ Cleric, or doing this.

Current Concept: Artificer 15|Wizard 5/Incantarix 10
Alternative Concept: Cleric 3/Artificer 12|Wizard 3/Mystic Theurge 2/Incantarix 10

[Optimystik]

Apostle of Peace has fast cleric casting progression (similar to Ur-Priest) but a more limited spell list. Blighter accelerates Druid casting but faces even stranger restrictions.

[Thrice Dead Cat]

Instead of using Cleric, why not Archivist instead? Int based divine casting never looked so sweet.

[Aquillion]

Gestalt, still in creation process though, and contemplating replacing Artificer w/ Cleric, or doing this.

Current Concept: Artificer 15|Wizard 5/Incantarix 10
Alternative Concept: Cleric 3/Artificer 12|Wizard 3/Mystic Theurge 2/Incantarix 10

Make sure you have DM permission for this. Dual-progression 'fusion' classes like Mystic Theurge are, by RAW, illegal in Gestalt.

Honestly, if you're just aiming for optimization, I would recommend against what you're trying. You still only get one action per turn, so the benefit you gain for having cleric spells on top of your wizard ones is less than you would think. Something that grants you additional actions (like Factotum or Swiftblade) is much more powerful.

And if you just want the flavor of clerical powers, there are PRCs that can add those to your wizard, too...

[Mooch]

gonna have to throw out beholder mage as an option, 9th level spells after 10 levels and able to cast 10 spells per round as a free action is well amazing

[Thrice Dead Cat]

gonna have to throw out beholder mage as an option, 9th level spells after 10 levels and able to cast 10 spells per round as a free action is well amazing

The problem comes with getting the smell of Limburger off of the character sheet, though.

[Foryn Gilnith]

Make sure you have DM permission for this. Dual-progression 'fusion' classes like Mystic Theurge are, by RAW, illegal in Gestalt.

Banning fusion classes is about as RAW as banning prestige classes. Both are mentioned as possibilities in the rules; neither are directly stated.

[dspeyer]

Banning fusion classes is about as RAW as banning prestige classes. Both are mentioned as possibilities in the rules; neither are directly stated.

Prestige classes that are essentially class combinations-such as the arcane trickster, mystic theurge, and eldritch knight-should be prohibited if you’re using gestalt classes

I suppose an appeal to rfc 2119 could be made here.

[Thrice Dead Cat]

I suppose an appeal to rfc 2119 could be made here.

Considering that the SRD uses the word "should" makes it more a suggestion than an actual rule. In the same sense, you probably shouldn't use a mirror while at a firing range.

[RandomLunatic]

The problem is that you are not going to find any you can take at levels 1-3, even in Gestalt, and, as mentioned, the book strongly advises DMs not to allow dual-progression PrCs.

[Coidzor]

In any case, TDC, Foryn, dspeyer, it is an area that could potentially run into a problem, so, OP, you should check on that.

Instead of using Cleric, why not Archivist instead? Int based divine casting never looked so sweet.

+1 for synergizing!

[Tokiko Mima]

In theory, there shouldn't be a reason why dual progression classes would be overpowered in gestalt. If they were overpowered on their own merits, they would be overpowered when not playing gestalt, too.

The primary reason I would think you would want to ban dual progression classes is (a) because it's far too complicated (and a lot of new rules have to be invented to cover situations that arise), and (b) because gestalt allows you to accelerate entry into a dual progression class, beyond what was originally intended.

If a player wanted to play a dual progression class in a gestalt game, I would allow them as long as they kept it simple, obeyed the other restriction with Prestige classes in gestalt, never advanced any spellcasting more than once in a given level (No Spontaneous Divination/Ultimate Magus cheese) and did not take dual-progression classes at a level before a non-gestalt character could access them.

[Shades of Gray]

The issue with using, say, Mystic Theurge is this.

In a regular game, You qualify for Mystic Theurge at 7th level (3 levels of wizard, 3 of cleric). By taking Mystic Theurge from there, you get both spellcasting types increased, but you lose three levels of spellcasting (A single-class Wizard or Cleric would be able to cast level 4 spells by then, while you can only cast level 2 spells)

In gestalt, you can take Wizard/Cleric for three levels, then switch to Mystic Theurge. Now, you have Full spellcasting for those two classes, plus an extra slot to fit whatever you want in.

[starwoof]

The issue with using, say, Mystic Theurge is this.

In a regular game, You qualify for Mystic Theurge at 7th level (3 levels of wizard, 3 of cleric). By taking Mystic Theurge from there, you get both spellcasting types increased, but you lose three levels of spellcasting (A single-class Wizard or Cleric would be able to cast level 4 spells by then, while you can only cast level 2 spells)

In gestalt, you can take Wizard/Cleric for three levels, then switch to Mystic Theurge. Now, you have Full spellcasting for those two classes, plus an extra slot to fit whatever you want in.

If someone were to take, say, wizard in that open slot, would they gain 2 wizard spellcasting levels per level? That would make mystic theurge pretty gosh danged broken awesome in gestalt. Which is generally why it isn't allowed, I guess.

[taltamir]

If someone were to take, say, wizard in that open slot, would they gain 2 wizard spellcasting levels per level? That would make mystic theurge pretty gosh danged broken awesome in gestalt. Which is generally why it isn't allowed, I guess.

any dual progression casting in gestalt is not really allowed...
there are a ton of gestalt builds using dual progressions that end up with you able to cast every spell on the list of cleric/wizard/druid/psion/etc.
being full caster on 4 classes... and maintaining the correct level...

[starwoof]

any dual progression casting in gestalt is not really allowed...
there are a ton of gestalt builds using dual progressions that end up with you able to cast every spell on the list of cleric/wizard/druid/psion/etc.
being full caster on 4 classes... and maintaining the correct level...

Fantastic.

[Tokiko Mima]

If someone were to take, say, wizard in that open slot, would they gain 2 wizard spellcasting levels per level? That would make mystic theurge pretty gosh danged broken awesome in gestalt. Which is generally why it isn't allowed, I guess.

That's one of the situations that comes up in gestalt that's 'sort of' open to interpretation. In general, you would not because identical class features (such as spellcasting) on both sides share accrue at the rate of the faster class, not the rate of both of them combined.

It only gets a little weird when you have something like a wizard with the ability to spontaneously cast certain spells (e.g. Spontaneous Divination replacement class feature) qualifying for something like Ultimate Magus, where it's adding +1 levels of prepared spellcasting and +1 levels of spontaneous spellcasting. Arguably, these are different class features but the result is cheesy whether it's gestalt or not.

[ex cathedra]

any dual progression casting in gestalt is not really allowed...
there are a ton of gestalt builds using dual progressions that end up with you able to cast every spell on the list of cleric/wizard/druid/psion/etc.
being full caster on 4 classes... and maintaining the correct level...

Eh. Talented people can do the same without gestalt. Though, I do think that double-progression should be disallowed in gestalt, with one exception; the gestalt rules list Eldritch Knight as a double progression class, and banning EK or similar classes because of that seems arbitrarily stupid to me. Also, I strongly disagree with the gestalt rule that forbids progression two prestige classes at once.

It only gets a little weird when you have something like a wizard with the ability to spontaneously cast certain spells (e.g. Spontaneous Divination replacement class feature) qualifying for something like Ultimate Magus, where it's adding +1 levels of prepared spellcasting and +1 levels of spontaneous spellcasting. Arguably, these are different class features but the result is cheesy whether it's gestalt or not.

The fact that your character has the ability to spontaneously cast a few spells does not make the Wizard class a Spontaneous Arcane casting class. You can qualify, but you can't benefit, by any reading, from 17/10 spellcasting progression, or whatever.

[Tokiko Mima]

any dual progression casting in gestalt is not really allowed...
there are a ton of gestalt builds using dual progressions that end up with you able to cast every spell on the list of cleric/wizard/druid/psion/etc.
being full caster on 4 classes... and maintaining the correct level...

The correct verbiage is not recommended, i.e. should not, not can not. The RAW is unclear on many specifics, such as what precisely qualifies as a dual progression class, how it over complicates class advancement, and what restrictions need to be modified, etc. To really use the gestalt rules, you need to clear the specifics with your DM.

[taltamir]

you are right, I should have said "while arguable on whether it is allowed or not by RAW, it is not allowed by most DMs because it is heavily abusable, such as by the myriad by the RAW builds which give you ridiculous spell progressions or all spells of all classes"

[Optimystik]

any dual progression casting in gestalt is not really allowed...
there are a ton of gestalt builds using dual progressions that end up with you able to cast every spell on the list of cleric/wizard/druid/psion/etc.
being full caster on 4 classes... and maintaining the correct level...

Such as The Omnicaster

OP: You can also use Divine Bard and Sublime Chord to accelerate divine casting.

[Foryn Gilnith]

such as by the myriad by the RAW builds which give you ridiculous spell progressions or all spells of all classes"

What is so ridiculous about them? They're gestalt, they're supposed to be powerful. If they're still constrained by action economy, I don't see much wrong with them. Overpowered is relative.

Also, Omnicaster is sadly illegal. The dual progression doesn't break it; the dual prestige classing does. With only the latter I don't doubt it could be at a reasonable power level.

[aje8]

What is so ridiculous about them? They're gestalt, they're supposed to be powerful. If they're still constrained by action economy, I don't see much wrong with them. Overpowered is relative.

Also, Omnicaster is sadly illegal. The dual progression doesn't break it; the dual prestige classing does. With only the latter I don't doubt it could be at a reasonable power level.

No offense, but I'm inclined to disagree. First of all because simply getting spells off two spell lists for very little cost is utterly ridiculous.

And secondly because I can build a character who gets 9th level Wizard spells, 9th level Cleric spells, 9th level powers and MORE casting (~5th level spells in a 4th class) without dual PrCing but with dual-progression classes.

[Foryn Gilnith]

First of all because simply getting spells off two spell lists for very little cost is utterly ridiculous.

The opportunity cost is notable. And also, compared to what the rest of gestalt is doing, it's not necessarily overpowered. If breadth of access were everything, nobody would ever specialize as a wizard, let alone focus-specialize. But specialization is the most popular option. The return on those new spells you're adding starts to diminish unless you abuse action economy.

And secondly because I can build a character who gets 9th level Wizard spells, 9th level Cleric spells, 9th level powers and MORE casting (~5th level spells in a 4th class) without dual PrCing but with dual-progression classes.

I can get 9th level Wizard spells, 9th level Cleric spells, and MORE casting (~5th level powers) without gestalt. All gestalt adds to that is 9th-level "spells" - less than a 50% power boost. Compare to other builds which are getting more than 50% power boosts, and it's not so ridiculous.