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    Ettin in the Playground
     
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    Question [3.5] Best race for each class?

    Just wondering, what do people consider the best LA +0 race for each base class? Is human the best in every case?

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    Default Re: [3.5] Best race for each class?

    It really depends on what you are doing. Human is good for a lot of builds due to the bonus feat except for fighter which I tend to like dwarf.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Best race for each class?

    OK, sure, some races are best for specific builds, but I guess I mean in general. i.e. If you were advising a new player which race to take for a class he hadn't played before.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Best race for each class?

    Human, same reason as above.

    However, some good combinations IMO:
    Cleric - Dwarf
    Wizard/Sorc - Halfling
    Bow user - Elf
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    Default Re: [3.5] Best race for each class?

    For Core Classes:
    Wizard: Lesser Tiefling or Strongheart Halfling
    Druid: Human or Dragborn Buoman
    Fighter or Barbarian: Water Orc
    Cleric: Lesser Aasimar(Or however you spell that)
    Rogue: Whisper Gnome
    Sorcerer: Strongheart Halfling or Lesser Aasimar
    Paladin: No idea.

    So.... given all books allowed, I actually don't like human for any core class except Druid.

    If it's core only..... then it's like human for every class. Orc for like Barbarians and Fighters I guess...... and then human for literally every other class.
    Last edited by aje8; 2009-12-25 at 08:22 PM.
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    Default Re: [3.5] Best race for each class?

    Quote Originally Posted by rockdeworld View Post
    Human, same reason as above.

    However, some good combinations IMO:
    Cleric - Dwarf
    Wizard/Sorc - Halfling Gnome
    Bow user - Elf
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    Default Re: [3.5] Best race for each class?

    human - everything

    gnome- caster, especially illusionist bard druid

    dwarf- everything but pally, bard, sorc

    halflilng- rogue mainly

    dont use elf halfelf halforc

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    Default Re: [3.5] Best race for each class?

    Dragonfire Adept: Dragonborn Mongrelfolk. +6 to CON, baby!

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    Default Re: [3.5] Best race for each class?

    Is this for Core-only? Because if not, then there are a LOT of classes and races to cover. (And some pretty decent LA +0 competition for Humans, too ... Whisper Gnomes, Lesser Tieflings, Strongheart Halfling ...)
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    Default Re: [3.5] Best race for each class?

    Gray Elves (MM) make the best Wizards by far, combining an INT and a DEX bonus, which are the two stats that Wizards enjoy most. The CON penalty can be shored up by Faerie Mysteries Initiate or staying out of harm's way, and the Elven Generalist substitution levels don't exactly hurt either.

    Azurins are often better than Humans, since Essentia means an extra point from a Cobalt/Midnight/whatever feat, and a skill point is not very helpful if you have a shoddy list. Strongheart Halflings are also contenders, since the Halfling chassis is superior to the Human one, and the bonus feat can easily be Luck of Heroes, thus making them the same as the run of the mill Halfling but with an extra point of AC on top.
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    Default Re: [3.5] Best race for each class?

    Quote Originally Posted by Flickerdart View Post
    Gray Elves (MM) make the best Wizards by far, combining an INT and a DEX bonus, which are the two stats that Wizards enjoy most. The CON penalty can be shored up by Faerie Mysteries Initiate or staying out of harm's way, and the Elven Generalist substitution levels don't exactly hurt either.

    Azurins are often better than Humans, since Essentia means an extra point from a Cobalt/Midnight/whatever feat, and a skill point is not very helpful if you have a shoddy list. Strongheart Halflings are also contenders, since the Halfling chassis is superior to the Human one, and the bonus feat can easily be Luck of Heroes, thus making them the same as the run of the mill Halfling but with an extra point of AC on top.
    The basic issue is that elves don't have an awesome racial prestige class like Dwarves and Gnomes. Runesmith and Shadowcraft mage + focused specialist are way better than 2 more int and elven generalist subs

    And you may get more milage out of the human/strongheart halfling bonus feat

    And then there is Tieflings. Gotta love outsider type.

    So no I would not consider grey elf to be the end all wizard race

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    Default Re: [3.5] Best race for each class?

    Don't grey elfs get a con hit? Outside of the bonus feat races, I like lesser Tieflings (+2 int AND +2 dex) or (even better) LA bought off tiefling (alter self!)
    Last edited by deuxhero; 2009-12-25 at 11:49 PM.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Best race for each class?

    I'm a fan of half-nymph and draconic as far as templates go, due to the various stat boosts across the board. Admittedly, I wouldn't play either without LA buy-off on the table.

    As always, any and every sort of human is boss for just about any and everything.


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    Default Re: [3.5] Best race for each class?

    Quote Originally Posted by Draz74 View Post
    Is this for Core-only? Because if not, then there are a LOT of classes and races to cover. (And some pretty decent LA +0 competition for Humans, too ... Whisper Gnomes, Lesser Tieflings, Strongheart Halfling ...)
    Nope, not just core only.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Best race for each class?

    Dwarf is pretty awesome. If you're wearing heavy armor and don't desperately need Charisma, you've just got a laundry list of amazing abilities, from the Con bonus to the bonus on saves vs spells and poison (which stack against spells involving poison, BTW), darkvision, stonecunning, miraculous dwarf carrying capacity, skill check bonuses, bonus attack vs orcs and goblins, huge AC bonus vs giants....It's quite handy. If dwarf doesn't fit for whatever reason, humans the natural pick. Other builds might prefer other races, but I find that the extra feat almost always helps (Strongheart Halfling has the same thing going for them, but I don't like the fact that I might very well not be able to carry a Bag of Holding without hitting medium load, since I tend to buy the entire PHB and Dungeonscape mundane item lists).

    Of special note is the Warforged. Though not a true construct, their racial immunities are quite potent for LA 0, and an all-Warforged party can be practically unstoppable. Fighting battles inside a Stinking Cloud, healed by Wiz/Sorc spells so we can squeeze another arcanist into the party in the cleric slot (both are Tier 1, but I find doubled wizards more offensively potent than wizard and cleric), all of Necromancy's most fearsome offense (Enervation and Ray of Exhaustion, mostly) does jack squat to you, and you all get to be badass robots. What's not to love?
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    Default Re: [3.5] Best race for each class?

    Quote Originally Posted by HCL View Post
    The basic issue is that elves don't have an awesome racial prestige class like Dwarves and Gnomes. Runesmith and Shadowcraft mage + focused specialist are way better than 2 more int and elven generalist subs
    Shadowcraft Mage is the one exception. Otherwise, Gray Elf is pretty damn good, especially with the doubling of familiar bonus (hello, Hummingbird). The Con-penalty sucks, but frankly, outside Lesser Tiefling, nothing gains a more advantageous ability spread.

    Elven racial abilities also somewhat help a Wizard, though of course, FMI shouldn't be expected to be the default. It's worth noting that Dragonborn Gray Elf gets rid of the Con-penalty, leaving +2 Int, -2 Str; ideal, all things considered.


    Of course, that isn't to say Gray Elf is the only good Wizard-race (though I feel it beats out Fire Elf on back of Cha being somewhat relevant for Charm-line, Planar Binding-line and UMD); there's Neraphim (and base Outsider type for Polymorph-fun), Elan (and base Aberration-type for Alter Self-fun), Gnome (and the Illusionist Awesome), Lesser Tiefling (and...yeah, nice stats), Tiefling (with buyoff, it's a fine race; Outsider Awesome combined with great stats), Strongheart Halfling (let's face it, sometimes the feat really counts), Human (and sometimes even the skill point; most of the time, Strongheart beats out Human for a Wizard tho), Whisper Gnome (this needs no explanation) and company.
    Last edited by Eldariel; 2009-12-26 at 01:10 AM.
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    Default Re: [3.5] Best race for each class?

    Psion - Kalashtar (get far more PP than Elan, and no Cha hit.)
    Psiforged are a good choice as well, for the various immunities above.

    Warforged also make great Artificers due to the flavor synergy and the ability to heal themselves.

    Quote Originally Posted by Flickerdart View Post
    Strongheart Halflings are also contenders, since the Halfling chassis is superior to the Human one, and the bonus feat can easily be Luck of Heroes, thus making them the same as the run of the mill Halfling but with an extra point of AC on top.
    Yes, but the 20 ft. move speed can be a dealbreaker, not to mention the smaller weapon die.

    Quote Originally Posted by HCL View Post
    The basic issue is that elves don't have an awesome racial prestige class like Dwarves and Gnomes. Runesmith and Shadowcraft mage + focused specialist are way better than 2 more int and elven generalist subs.
    Dwarves and Gnomes don't get the awesomness of Arcane Hierophant Apparently they do, go figure!
    Last edited by Optimystik; 2009-12-26 at 01:44 AM.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Best race for each class?

    I'm not quite sure what a +4 to Listen is going to do you, especially at mid levels with no skill ranks and low Wisdom.

    Gnomes are my preferred wizards. Constitution bonus means they'll likely have twice the HP of their elven friends, bonuses to hide, bonuses to casting illusion, racial Spell-Like Abilities, and an additional dodge bonus against giants. Gray Elf has an Intelligence bonus, but loses the +1 AC and +1 to hit that the (small sized) Gnome still retains. Plus, if we're talking about variants, the Forest Gnome (MM) has a racial +4 to hide, with another +4 in forests; that's +12 to hide total. Whisper Gnomes don't have a Constitution bonus (still better than the Elf though) but get an additional boost to Dexterity, better speed plus better Spell-Like Abilities. And if that isn't enough, Tinker Gnomes get a bonus to Intelligence along with their Constitution bonus. (and a penality to Wisdom, but I believe they have a bonus to Will saves anyways)

    Oh yes, and the Lesser Svirfneblin. Bonus to Dex, bonus to Con, darkvision, low light vision, and all the fun gnome bonuses, at LA +0.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Best race for each class?

    Quote Originally Posted by Optimystik View Post

    Dwarves and Gnomes don't get the awesomness of Arcane Hierophant
    Pretty sure that thing doesn't have racial requirements.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Best race for each class?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dixieboy View Post
    Pretty sure that thing doesn't have racial requirements.
    What do you know, it doesn't. Which leads me to wonder why it was in the "elf supplement." My mistake.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Best race for each class?

    Possibly because elves have Favored Class: Wizard? So that you could take Wizard 3/Druid 3/Arcane Hierophant 10 and then progress whichever class they wish? Of course, that tends to ignore that Mystic Thurge is the best class to to take for the next 4 levels.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Best race for each class?

    Quote Originally Posted by erikun View Post
    Possibly because elves have Favored Class: Wizard? So that you could take Wizard 3/Druid 3/Arcane Hierophant 10 and then progress whichever class they wish?
    Humans have no problem doing so either (Favored Class Any).

    Spellscales (+2 CHA, -2 CON) make powerful Sorcerers, and with their meditations have access to a variety of bonus feats for free (e.g. Eschew Materials, Silent Spell, Improved Counterspell etc.) which can easily make up for the Human's bonus feat.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Best race for each class?

    Quote Originally Posted by Random NPC View Post
    Fixed
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    Default Re: [3.5] Best race for each class?

    Some variant of Elf often works well for Rogues. You've got the DEX bonus, some help in avoiding magic that Rogues don't have good defenses for, low-light vision, a better ranged weapon proficiency, and automatic Search checks for secret doors. Plus there's the extra 4 hours of not sleeping every day when a Rogue can be out making some cash on the side.
    Last edited by Curmudgeon; 2009-12-26 at 03:42 AM.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Best race for each class?

    Also, being 10ft. faster helps when you're escaping with the loot.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Best race for each class?

    Human is never terrible, and usually best.
    Grey Elf is great wizard.
    Stronghearted halfing is great for whatever human is great for that isn't melee.
    Lesser Asimar is of course good. Simply because it is a buffed LA1 race that counts as LA0.
    ShadowWhisper Gnomes is promising for stealth based, also the best gnome race for the Deadly Gnome Race.
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    Default Re: [3.5] Best race for each class?

    Quote Originally Posted by aje8 View Post
    For Core Classes:
    Wizard: Lesser Tiefling or Strongheart Halfling
    Druid: Human or Dragborn Buoman
    Fighter or Barbarian: Water Orc
    Cleric: Lesser Aasimar(Or however you spell that)
    Rogue: Whisper Gnome
    Sorcerer: Strongheart Halfling or Lesser Aasimar
    Paladin: No idea.

    So.... given all books allowed, I actually don't like human for any core class except Druid.

    If it's core only..... then it's like human for every class. Orc for like Barbarians and Fighters I guess...... and then human for literally every other class.
    I've never really looked at the Water Orc before. It is rather nice, isn't it? Make a great Marine. :)

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    Default Re: [3.5] Best race for each class?

    Quote Originally Posted by erikun View Post
    I'm not quite sure what a +4 to Listen is going to do you, especially at mid levels with no skill ranks and low Wisdom.

    Gnomes are my preferred wizards. Constitution bonus means they'll likely have twice the HP of their elven friends, bonuses to hide, bonuses to casting illusion, racial Spell-Like Abilities, and an additional dodge bonus against giants. Gray Elf has an Intelligence bonus, but loses the +1 AC and +1 to hit that the (small sized) Gnome still retains. Plus, if we're talking about variants, the Forest Gnome (MM) has a racial +4 to hide, with another +4 in forests; that's +12 to hide total. Whisper Gnomes don't have a Constitution bonus (still better than the Elf though) but get an additional boost to Dexterity, better speed plus better Spell-Like Abilities. And if that isn't enough, Tinker Gnomes get a bonus to Intelligence along with their Constitution bonus. (and a penality to Wisdom, but I believe they have a bonus to Will saves anyways)

    Oh yes, and the Lesser Svirfneblin. Bonus to Dex, bonus to Con, darkvision, low light vision, and all the fun gnome bonuses, at LA +0.
    Actually, Elves have Dex bonus over Gnomes so they're matched in Ac and To Hit. Gnome hides better, but whatever. Elf has bonus to casting stat. I needn't tell you why that's a good idea (it starts with extra spell per day and eventually comes down to extra 9th level spell, btw; in addition to DC increases and all that jazz).
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    Default Re: [3.5] Best race for each class?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldariel View Post
    Shadowcraft Mage is the one exception. Otherwise, Gray Elf is pretty damn good, especially with the doubling of familiar bonus (hello, Hummingbird). The Con-penalty sucks, but frankly, outside Lesser Tiefling, nothing gains a more advantageous ability spread.

    Elven racial abilities also somewhat help a Wizard, though of course, FMI shouldn't be expected to be the default. It's worth noting that Dragonborn Gray Elf gets rid of the Con-penalty, leaving +2 Int, -2 Str; ideal, all things considered.


    Of course, that isn't to say Gray Elf is the only good Wizard-race (though I feel it beats out Fire Elf on back of Cha being somewhat relevant for Charm-line, Planar Binding-line and UMD); there's Neraphim (and base Outsider type for Polymorph-fun), Elan (and base Aberration-type for Alter Self-fun), Gnome (and the Illusionist Awesome), Lesser Tiefling (and...yeah, nice stats), Tiefling (with buyoff, it's a fine race; Outsider Awesome combined with great stats), Strongheart Halfling (let's face it, sometimes the feat really counts), Human (and sometimes even the skill point; most of the time, Strongheart beats out Human for a Wizard tho), Whisper Gnome (this needs no explanation) and company.
    Hummingbird is Dragon material and isn't allowed in most games, and it can't talk so no UMDing items for you.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Best race for each class?

    Hmm i found the substitution level in "Races of Wild" for an elven Generalist Wizard quite interesting. Although i agree the bad constitution sucks...

    Is the racial substitution also possible with a grey elf or wild elf or only with the PHB elf?
    Last edited by KurtKatze; 2009-12-26 at 09:45 AM.

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