OOTS #696 - The Discussion Thread

[Hithros]

Eh....Had to read over V's line a couple times to make sure I had the right idea.

But this was a fun bit! And it looks like Elan had to add in "epic" at the last minute, since it's all squished.

[delguidance]

I like how Roy is looking quizzical in the second to last panel and then Haley is looking quizzical in the last panel. The different parts of what V is saying are curious to them in different ways for the win.

Also Elan & Haley: totally grabbing each others butts in the last three panels.

[Kish]

Agreed. I thought he was supposed to be getting more intelligent, why is he writing like a five year old?

People on the forum claim Elan is getting more intelligent almost as often as they claim Belkar is getting less evil.

You get used to it. Neither has support in the actual comic.

[Mr. Pin]

Lol, Vaarsuvius. Really now?

Nice line though. What are they going to do next? I mean, head to Kraagor's gate? I'm worried about what the linear guild is doing too- they might pop up at any moment. They're never gonna be a match for the order, though.

[JustRain]

I almost broke my neck trying to read this upside down, and almost burned my eyes before I realized there wasn't really anything written there. Bah!

Good comic though.

[DwarvenExodus]

Are spoiler tags necessary? This is the discussion thread for comic 696 - who would be reading it that wasn't prepared for spoilers?

In other news, I wonder whether Girard will get Elan's message.

[Belkster11]

I almost broke my neck trying to read this upside down, and almost burned my eyes before I realized there wasn't really anything written there. Bah!

Good comic though.

It says:

Help! There's A Epic Soresirer Litch Comming 2 Take You're Gate!!1! Luv, Elan

I'll just sig that now.

[martinkou]

Logarithmic. I think zero is the asymptote: even if you use a nuke, there's a chance that you still have to deal with social situations.

If you somehow managed to nuke off all living things in your world, then you surely won't have any more social situations to deal with.

[DabblerWizard]

Anyone noticed tha Elan is using the stick form OotS "coat of arms"? :P

Good catch.

I'm glad we've got an update, and I'm glad the OOTS gang is remaining consistent.

[Arcane_Secrets]

Interesting to note that Elan, Haley and Vaarsuvius all survived Girard's little nuke. Kind of provides fuel for both sides of the "Girard is an idiot" argument, because if that explosion couldn't even take out V or Haley there's no way it would have hurt Soon--therefore, either Girard was being an idiot for placing such a weak explosion, or all the people who said the explosion was nothing more than a warning that was never intended to kill anyone are correct!

There is another possibility though. What if the explosion was also intended to send a signal to someone a good bit more lethal that the gate was being searched out, and whoever was doing the searching managed to trigger the programmed illusion of Girard?

[Zevox]

Even ignoring Haley's potential two picks of Rogue abilities (since she's supposed to be at least 15th level?), she's not that fragile. Going with the speculated minimum of 14 con from the geekery thread, average HP for her would be at least 85 HP.

Yeah, but 85 hp is pathetic for a level 14-15 character. Anyone but especially frail spellcasters should be over 100 hp by that point. And it's far less than any epic-level Paladin would have.

Zevox

[denthor]

Because Vaarsuvius admitted that it's wrong to blow up one's companions.

I knew I would find this type of message from you. Let me just say I now feel guilty about laughing about all those strips when V cast explosive ruin on Belker.

[Sewblon]

How does Roy know that Girard is keeping an eye on that spot at all? The illusion said that it is a completely random spot in the middle of the worlds largest desert.

[Somewhere]

Yeah, but 85 hp is pathetic for a level 14-15 character. Anyone but especially frail spellcasters should be over 100 hp by that point. And it's far less than any epic-level Paladin would have.

Zevox

But would that stop below average rolls + saving for half?

(aside: the system's dependence on dice and relative lack of spell damage bonuses, and thus having really low minimum damage is a bit wonky to me, honestly )

[whitemane]

Blackwing is quickly becoming more endearing to me than Mr. Scruffy!!!

[HeseMCMXCI]

If you somehow managed to nuke off all living things in your world, then you surely won't have any more social situations to deal with.

Actually, if you blew up everything living, there would still be the undead. And you might be schizophrenic, so, logarithmic

[whitemane]

How does Roy know that Girard is keeping an eye on that spot at all? The illusion said that it is a completely random spot in the middle of the worlds largest desert.

He doesn't... But he does know that 1. Girard is notified of the illusion being triggered and 2. Girard knows the location of the coordinates that he gave Soon (he might've rolled randomly for the coordinates, but he still had to know what they were to give them to Soon AND set up the booby trap.)

Chances are, if Girard is still alive, Girard would have the illusion alarm go off and would at least be curious enough to scry on the spot to see what happened.

[Kurien]

I keep reading people saying that Girard was stupid for casting a boobytrap not powerful enough to kill Soon. But has anyone ever considered magical decay? It seems the illusory message was created not long after the breakup of the OotScribble, and in that case it's been many decades since it was cast. If magic follows any laws of nature, then I'd imagine such a high concentration of magic power would be subject to diffusion, gradually losing potency with time.

Or maybe I don't understand how magic in the OotSverse works at all. Maybe magic is extremely stable, and Girard actually did cast a spell of insufficient power to kill even mid level characters like V, Elan, Haley and Roy

[Somewhere]

Plot armour
The system allows rolling all 1's and saving to halve that result. Sure, the odd's 1 in 6^however many die, then multiply by whatever you need for save. Plot armour nails that without a sweat.

[Shale]

V already survived the 48d6 damage from being inside the full blast radii of two Meteor Swarms in one fight. What's one more explosion?

[Omergideon]

People on the forum claim Elan is getting more intelligent almost as often as they claim Belkar is getting less evil.

You get used to it. Neither has support in the actual comic.

Indeed. Elan has been getting more serious and sensible, but not necessarily more intelligent.

Anyway, I am more interested in reviewing this particular issue. The short version is that it is good. The long version begins now.

Good:
1) I often begin by complimenting the artwork of the comic. This is largely because despite the more simple style offered by a web comic with stick figure characters there is often a great deal of variety and skill shown. Most especially I am often very impressed by the use of simple effects to create the wonderful images. For instance, the effect of the writing in the sand is a very simple overlay but the smoothness of it and the character it adds to the image is highly impressive. I have often said that the Giant knows his medium well and acts on that and this comic reinforces that assessment.
2) As for the plot of the strip in general (before looking at specific moments) I am as a whole happy. It manages to very effectively sum up the character's responses to the Girard situation and whilst not "tying up the loose end" and preventing future plot developments it does provide a sense of closure for the issue at hand. This is very effective and allows the next issue to go anywhere that is wanted with the upcoming story.
3) Regarding the specifics of the strip I think as much as any this one again encapsulates the personalities of the various members of the OoTS and demonstrates them very well. I could go on and mention them all by name, so I will. Roy takes charge and tackles the issues head on (whilst again showing how he has grown since the start with his mature responses to Elan etc). Haley acts as the peacemaker and foil for the various other characters of the order. Durkon quietly works in the background doing his job without drawing attention to himself. Belkar is immediately concerned with his own desires and needs. Elan exhibits his naive and trusting side, plus his cheerfulness and impossible sense of "never give up" by instantly getting to work with no ill will. And V shows the dynamic with blackwing and his own logical approach extremely. More below.
4) I am certain that some will think of the Belkar/V moments in the last line of panels as a simple joke. And yes it is very funny indeed. But I think it has a higher purpose. The way that Belkar explicitly compares V to Girard reinforces the comparisons many have made between the scribblers and the OoTS with a definite character association. Now there will not be perfect comparisons between character but the connections cannot be denied. I think this is indeed the start of a characterisation arc whereby the OoTS see how they are like the Scribblers and learn from their mistakes. It is a lot to read into a small exchange but one I cannot help but notice. The animosity and arguments within the order will have been thrown into sharp relief by this event for the characters and the audience.
5) Finally, regarding the humour. There are plenty of very funny little comments by a number of characters, especially from V, which never seem to miss the mark for me. I really enjoyed reading the comic.

The Bad:
1) The only major negative (as I see it) is the logical problem raised by the trap being meant to kill Soon but not even killing a wizard with no (known) magical protections up. That is just odd enough to distract me at least.

In conclusion I rate the comic as 4 stars. Not the epic required for anything better and no major action but everything else working out very well.

As another side note I think this comic has reinforced my belief in Roy as being the main protagonist of the story. He has often been the focus of the main and side quests and even when dead most of the comic was dealing with the fallout of that and the effort to change it. However with Roy raising the same concerns and questions that many of us readers have expressed recently I am more thoroughly convinced. Just a small addendum.

[moonbiter]

Nice shout out to that old saw: "There are few problems that cannot be resolved through the judicious application of high explosives."

[Leolo]

I keep reading people saying that Girard was stupid for casting a boobytrap not powerful enough to kill Soon. But has anyone ever considered magical decay? It seems the illusory message was created not long after the breakup of the OotScribble, and in that case it's been many decades since it was cast. If magic follows any laws of nature, then I'd imagine such a high concentration of magic power would be subject to diffusion, gradually losing potency with time.

Or maybe I don't understand how magic in the OotSverse works at all. Maybe magic is extremely stable, and Girard actually did cast a spell of insufficient power to kill even mid level characters like V, Elan, Haley and Roy

It could be only 20% real. Girard is/was an illusionist. But as an epic spellcaster he should know his spells so it is not good enough anyway.

[talkamancer]

Please tell me that is a Kentucky Fried Movie quote.

Classic.

[martinkou]

V already survived the 48d6 damage from being inside the full blast radii of two Meteor Swarms in one fight. What's one more explosion?

Maybe we'll have a "Vaarsuvius facts" thread soon. Starting with

V can take 10 out of his d4 hit dice, every level.

I keep reading people saying that Girard was stupid for casting a boobytrap not powerful enough to kill Soon. But has anyone ever considered magical decay? It seems the illusory message was created not long after the breakup of the OotScribble, and in that case it's been many decades since it was cast. If magic follows any laws of nature, then I'd imagine such a high concentration of magic power would be subject to diffusion, gradually losing potency with time.

Or maybe I don't understand how magic in the OotSverse works at all. Maybe magic is extremely stable, and Girard actually did cast a spell of insufficient power to kill even mid level characters like V, Elan, Haley and Roy

There're plenty of ancient, powerful runes, magical traps or magical items in various D&D campaigns - actually, the more ancient something is, the more powerful that something tends to be. So I don't think there's any universal rule on magical decay.

[nli10]

Cheers for the strip at this busy time of year.

MERRY XMAS TO YOU ALL (even the evil ones and those that prepared explosive runes this morning)

[HeseMCMXCI]

I didn't like Elan's message. Why the grammar is so awful? He's a bard, he should know his language up to the smallest shades of meaning: how comes that he cannot write it correctly?

It´s true that a bard, no matter what his INT is, should know how to use his words. However, in this cartoon fun overrules reason Therefore Elan won't spell properly until his INT grows, and i shouldn't think that will happen any time soon...

[TheSummoner]

I'm still fond of the "magical decay" theory. If magic got less potent as time wore on, then the blast would become weaker so long as Girard was not actively maintaining it. It would explain why when it was originally cast, Girard believed it capable of killing Soon, and yet even the squishiest members of the Order survived it when it went off ~50 years later.

Edit: Regarding Elan's horrible grammar. Bards typically deal with the spoken word, not writing. Everything there would make sence if spoken out loud instead of read. (the "a epic soresirer" could be explained by Elan adding "epic" after already writing "a soresirer" and not thinking to change "a" to "an"). As for the "gate!!1!," just a joke about what you might see on the internet.

[ThreadKiller]

Yeah, gosh, who ever heard of party members trying to blow each other up? Vaarsuvius?

Thanks, Giant!

[Kurien]

So are you saying that 80% of the explosion was illusory/fake? I suppose that V had a high enough Intelligence to disbelieve it, and that would also explain why Durkon had a expression instead of -- his will save is also high enough to disbelieve the illusion, and thus the explosion seemed much smaller. Rogues have evasion. It doesn't explain how Elan escaped unscathed. Maybe his wisdom/intelligence is so low he didn't realize there was danger?