OOTS #696 - The Discussion Thread

[factotum]

I didn't think the soul splice gave V anything but spells.

It clearly affected him in other ways as well...for example, the fiends said that he wouldn't get any XP for killing anything because his effective level would be so high. He also seemed pretty darned durable for a 13th-level wizard during his fight with the ABD.

[martinkou]

It clearly affected him in other ways as well...for example, the fiends said that he wouldn't get any XP for killing anything because his effective level would be so high. He also seemed pretty darned durable for a 13th-level wizard during his fight with the ABD.

The Ancient Black Dragon didn't really hit Darth V with anything. Other party members have been eaten by dragon-like and other creatures before and it never seemed to do much damage to them - apparently the large creatures in OOtSverse never chew before swallowing.

[Mc. Lovin']

1) Plot armor
2) Girard seriously miscalculated the strength of explosion needed
3) The spell deteriorated.
4) It's a ruse, designed to persuade the uninformed to look elsewhere.

5) Girard wanted soon alive to suffer his lack of knowledge of the gate

[ScreamingGod]

That there is a number 1 mixed in with all of Elan's exclamations points nearly made my day. Cheers Rich

[jidasfire]

It just occurred to me that actually used "!!1!" in written text.

Apparently he is familiar with internet grammar. I wouldn't be surprised if he has an account on this very site.

If Elan had an account here, he'd be constantly linking to TVTropes, talking about moral justification, misspelling character names that are readily available in the comic, turning the most minor events in the story into 20 page discussions over his opponents' word choice, and bringing every discussion back to Miko somehow.

I kid, I kid. Mostly.

[Oglokoog]

If Elan had an account here, he'd be constantly linking to TVTropes, talking about moral justification, misspelling character names that are readily available in the comic, turning the most minor events in the story into 20 page discussions over his opponents' word choice, and bringing every discussion back to Miko somehow.

I kid, I kid. Mostly.

You underestimate his intelligence.

[Conuly]

You underestimate his intelligence.

Overestimate, maybe, but underestimate????

[Somewhere]

I figure that a ton of arcane power is cool enough stuff that V wouldn't get hit die along with however much the LA was. Like how a pixie has a bunch of non-HP related bonuses and gets +4/+6 LA. And epic arcane is very much cooler than whatever the pixie gets on its own.

That said, Giant hasn't said one way or another, has he?

[Kish]

Rich has not said how many hit points (if any) Vaarsuvius got from the Splice, but since the Meteor Swarms weren't all before the Splice was lost...

[Asta Kask]

All I can say is this won't be over anytime Soon.

Spoiler

Show

try the veal, it's excellent...

[martinkou]

Rich has not said how many hit points (if any) Vaarsuvius got from the Splice, but since the Meteor Swarms weren't all before the Splice was lost...

... Not to mention V was already severely damaged, buff-less, and helpless (at least -5 to reflex saves!).

[Adeptus]

"...and that would be wrong."

[Menas]

Rich has not said how many hit points (if any) Vaarsuvius got from the Splice, but since the Meteor Swarms weren't all before the Splice was lost...

The fiends made it sound like V. would only have access to the 'arcane powers' of the people he was spliced to, and didn't mention him having access to anything else:

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0633.html

Personally, I don't believe V. gained any extra hit points from the splice at all. He had access to all of their protective spells (that were cast) until Xykon dispelled them, which helped a lot. But I don't believe there were any additional hit points gained.

[Menas]

... Not to mention V was already severely damaged, buff-less, and helpless (at least -5 to reflex saves!).

I'm thinking Xykon rolled a critical miss on that one =).

[Taekwondodo]

"...and that would be wrong."

This made me laugh so hard everyone else was wondering what was wrong!

[Kaytara]

The "ghost-human" joke was funny, and I enjoyed the punchline, but mostly this was just interesting and intriguing. It was really weird seeing Belkar just call someone out on something, what with HIS history. Weird seeing him call V by his full name, too, the only other time he's ever done that, I think, was back when the ship had sailed without him and Haley. Otherwise it was always "elf" "androgynous twit", "pointy-eared pissbucket" or "Ears".

"Trying to blow each other up", heh. You gave the game away there, Belkster. :D

I wonder why Belkar's so pleased in the last panel. Whatever the reason, this bodes well for future chance of V-Belkar comedy. XD

Sad to see the role Durkon's playing here. Healing the party members and staying silent for the rest of the time. Typical.

[ThunderCat]

It clearly affected him in other ways as well...for example, the fiends said that he wouldn't get any XP for killing anything because his effective level would be so high. He also seemed pretty darned durable for a 13th-level wizard during his fight with the ABD.

'Effective' being the key word here. In D&D (3E), the amount of xp gained doesn't depend solely on your class levels or hit die, but is calculated after your ECL. I imagine a template that gives you the spell power of three epic casters would warrant a pretty large LA, increasing V's ECL considerably, while V's class level would stay the same. Of course, it's just a theory, but it does fit with Xykon's comments on V's lame mid-level ass.

As for the durability part, it's beginning to look like circular reasoning. "V shouldn't have been able to survive the explosion", "V has survived worse before, like Xykon's meteor swarms", "That doesn't count, V had the soul splices then", "The soul splices didn't give V anything but spells", "But they would have to have done something more, or else he wouldn't have survived". There's really not much arguing with that

[martinkou]

"Trying to blow each other up", heh. You gave the game away there, Belkster. :D

I wonder why Belkar's so pleased in the last panel. Whatever the reason, this bodes well for future chance of V-Belkar comedy. XD

Sad to see the role Durkon's playing here. Healing the party members and staying silent for the rest of the time. Typical.

In a future strip...

* Belkar kissing V *
V: Honey?
Belkar: Yes?
V: I have a secret to tell you
Belkar: Just say it, honey. I won't tell anyone.
V: Inkyrius and I...
Belkar: And you what?
V: ... were a gay couple.
Belkar: :O!!!
Belkar: AAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRGGGGHHHHHH!!!!

[good_lookin_gus]

It would look like V was pretty buffed against the first Meteor Swarm. Surviving the second one was more of a stretch, but I still think it's feasible. Here you'll notice three empty potions, with only two going into O'Chul. V could have drank one. A Resist Energy or Protection from Energy would apply to each of the four 6d6 attacks.

[martinkou]

It would look like V was pretty buffed against the first Meteor Swarm. Surviving the second one was more of a stretch, but I still think it's feasible. Here you'll notice three empty potions, with only two going into O'Chul. V could have drank one. A Resist Energy or Protection from Energy would apply to each of the four 6d6 attacks.

V's buffs didn't grant him damage immunity to fire or damage resistance. Also, Fire Shield lasts only one round per level, and judging by V's appearance, should have already expired by the time he went to Xykon's dungeon.

So the most that V could have got from his buffs was succeeding his 1/2 Reflex save from the first meteor swarm. But even just 1/2 the damage of a full meteor swarm can kill a mid level wizard, or at least get him down to <10HP.

[good_lookin_gus]

V's buffs didn't grant him damage immunity to fire or damage resistance. Also, Fire Shield lasts only one round per level, and judging by V's appearance, should have already expired by the time he went to Xykon's dungeon.

So the most that V could have got from his buffs was succeeding his 1/2 Reflex save from the first meteor swarm. But even just 1/2 the damage of a full meteor swarm can kill a mid level wizard, or at least get him down to <10HP.

Can kill. Given the prior damage from the wards I would even call it likely. But it wouldn't take too much luck to remain standing.

[Sijo]

Belkar got it backwards: the lack of his presence in this arc is one of the few good things it has had so far. His only major bit in it (killing his old "friend") only made me feel sick.

V is a curious character; on the one hand, he finds the good side of the situation (that Draketooth has been warned); on the other he fails to realize (until his Raven pointed it out) that blowing up people is not a good thing. Well played Neutral Alingment there. Though I was hoping he'd be more sensitive now, after all he went through.

In fact, that's another thing that bothers me about this arc- the Order gets back together after being apart a LONG time (and put through some extreme situations, even for this strip) and all the character development seems to be lost. In particular, I find it annoying to see Elan as a moron again rather than a somewhat clueless dashing adventurer. Oh, I'm sure Rich will do something with those plot points (particularly V's) eventually, but in-between that and wandering around in an empty desert, I'm just not terribly excited about the series right now. Can we get to next Gate already?

[Iranon]

I like V's 'if you have a hammer...' attitude. In real life, Operation Plowshare (proposed landscaping with nukes, for artificial lakes and so on.) was hilarious enough. Applying big booms to social problems is just taking the approach to its logical conclusion.

Regarding Elan... being a bard doesn't mean he needs to be good with words, least of all written words. He's a performer who gets by on personal magnetism, we have seen nothing to indicate technical skill even in his chosen medium, improvised music.

Regarding Girard: People question his sense because no matter what his intentions were, his actions seem questionable (in terms of both morality and effectiveness).
It's hard to see how an explosion big enough to kill nonthreatening messengers but not big enough to incapacitate Soon would achieve a practical goal, unless he just wants to make Soon really really angry. This would make some sense if the objective is to have the entire Sapphire Guard come knocking on his door so he can fight them on his terms. For most other consideration, it involves at least one major blunder.

We don't need to know all the details to make some judgment. Meta-example: I don't know whether Rich knows that Roy is occasionally guilty of hypercorrection (e.g. 'you and I' where 'you and me' would be correct). It could be Roy making a grammar mistake or it could be Rich, but either way the speech pattern works for the character.

[Shatteredtower]

Huh. The Order is handling this with a surprising amount of sense for them. Interesting that the ones affected don't assume idiocy on Girard's part, though "that would be wrong."

Concerning V's quote as t-shirt fodder, it's a good idea. Just don't wear it at airports.

[Nilan8888]

In fact, that's another thing that bothers me about this arc- the Order gets back together after being apart a LONG time (and put through some extreme situations, even for this strip) and all the character development seems to be lost. In particular, I find it annoying to see Elan as a moron again rather than a somewhat clueless dashing adventurer.

I'm not exactly certain what about Elan's experiences would have made him any less of a moron. A little less naiive about the average person, perhaps considering what he's been through with Nale and the Therakla business. But he is and has remained an effective dimwit. That's been apparent from him smashing through the windows at the climax of the latter's story arc to his reaction even later on to Durkon's Wind Walk spell.

[DSCrankshaw]

In fact, that's another thing that bothers me about this arc- the Order gets back together after being apart a LONG time (and put through some extreme situations, even for this strip) and all the character development seems to be lost. In particular, I find it annoying to see Elan as a moron again rather than a somewhat clueless dashing adventurer.

I'm not exactly certain what about Elan's experiences would have made him any less of a moron. A little less naiive about the average person, perhaps considering what he's been through with Nale and the Therakla business. But he is and has remained an effective dimwit. That's been apparent from him smashing through the windows at the climax of the latter's story arc to his reaction even later on to Durkon's Wind Walk spell.

The windows I'll give you, but the wind walk spell? That was just child-like enthusiasm. It does not equal idiocy.

[Tobimaro]

Anyone noticed tha Elan is using the stick form OotS "coat of arms"? :P

I was surprised that there was not another IOU on the Cast of Characters page.

Also, there was the sneak attack by Belkar and the banter between V and Haley in the first panel. But I do agree with the others that the last three panels make this comic so much better. V was forced to take back those uses of Explosive Runes that were targeted at Belkar (and Belkar was happy to use that masterwork special ingredient in that plate of crow for V).

[warrl]

(and Belkar was happy to use that masterwork special ingredient in that plate of crow for V).

Blackwing finds your language offensive.

[Joerg]

Sad to see the role Durkon's playing here. Healing the party members and staying silent for the rest of the time. Typical.

I also notice that even while he's healing the others, he isn't fully inside the panel, just shoved to the side. Then, in the last five panels, he isn't visible any more, just as he was away when the illusion was triggered.

I really hope Durkon will get some more important part to play soon. To be there only for healing spells and an occasional Thor's Might doesn't do him justice.

[Asta Kask]

Am I the only one who sees the eyebrows of the characters trying to crawl of their faces in the last three panels?