Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 45
  1. - Top - End - #1
    Banned
     
    The Vorpal Tribble's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    The Mindfields
    Gender
    Female

    confused Why psionics solves everything

    This is why Roy needs to take that level in psion.

    Sensitivity to Psychic Impressions

    They'd know very quickly if the gate was actually hidden there or not. Simple 2nd level power that Girard would not be able to hide, foil, or dispel.
    Last edited by The Vorpal Tribble; 2010-01-03 at 10:11 AM.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Kish's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2004

    Default Re: Why psionics solves everything

    Quote Originally Posted by The Vorpal Tribble View Post
    that Girard would not be able to hide, foil, or dispel.
    I think you're making an invalid assumption about what Girard can and can't do.
    Spoiler
    Show
    "You are what you do. Choose again, and change." --Miles Vorkosigan

    "The really unforgivable acts are committed by calm men in beautiful green silk rooms, who deal death wholesale, by the shipload, without lust, or anger, or desire, or any redeeming emotion to excuse them but cold fear of some pretended future. But the crimes they hope to prevent in the future are imaginary. The ones they commit in the present--they are real." --Aral Vorkosigan

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    This, in a nutshell.
    Yes, exactly.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Banned
     
    The Vorpal Tribble's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    The Mindfields
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: Why psionics solves everything

    Quote Originally Posted by Kish View Post
    I think you're making an invalid assumption about what Girard can and can't do.
    He would have had to of taken some psion levels himself and made up his own power to do so..

    There is no spell-version of this, and psionics are very rare in this world, so he'd have to have taken precautions against a low-level spell from an obscure discipline of a rare class that allows no save nor saving throw. He's have had to take levels in Psicraft or Knowledge (psionics) to even know it existed. That's like a druid just happening to take levels in knowledge (architecture and engineering).

    I think it is a very valid assumption.
    Last edited by The Vorpal Tribble; 2010-01-03 at 10:25 AM.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Kish's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2004

    Default Re: Why psionics solves everything

    Quote Originally Posted by The Vorpal Tribble View Post
    He would have had to of taken some psion levels himself and made up his own power to do so..
    Oh? I admit I never read the 3.5ed psionics book, only the 3.0ed one. Did they say magic can no longer affect psionics?
    Last edited by Kish; 2010-01-03 at 10:25 AM.
    Spoiler
    Show
    "You are what you do. Choose again, and change." --Miles Vorkosigan

    "The really unforgivable acts are committed by calm men in beautiful green silk rooms, who deal death wholesale, by the shipload, without lust, or anger, or desire, or any redeeming emotion to excuse them but cold fear of some pretended future. But the crimes they hope to prevent in the future are imaginary. The ones they commit in the present--they are real." --Aral Vorkosigan

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    This, in a nutshell.
    Yes, exactly.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Banned
     
    The Vorpal Tribble's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    The Mindfields
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: Why psionics solves everything

    Quote Originally Posted by Kish View Post
    Oh? I admit I never read the 3.5ed psionics book. Did they say magic can no longer affect psionics?
    No, magic can. However, there is no spell that counters it as there is no magic equivalent.

    There isn't even a psionic power that hides it... except for the one I myself wrote, but that's besides the point.
    Last edited by The Vorpal Tribble; 2010-01-03 at 10:26 AM.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Kish's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2004

    Default Re: Why psionics solves everything

    Then we've already seen a spell that would have foiled it, haven't we? Cloister. And the wizard who came up with that one wasn't even the master of illusion.
    Spoiler
    Show
    "You are what you do. Choose again, and change." --Miles Vorkosigan

    "The really unforgivable acts are committed by calm men in beautiful green silk rooms, who deal death wholesale, by the shipload, without lust, or anger, or desire, or any redeeming emotion to excuse them but cold fear of some pretended future. But the crimes they hope to prevent in the future are imaginary. The ones they commit in the present--they are real." --Aral Vorkosigan

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    This, in a nutshell.
    Yes, exactly.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Orc in the Playground
     
    silversaraph's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Why psionics solves everything

    I imagine the mind flayer is still in custody. Do something copyrighted, wait for them to show up, and have Belkar make an intimidation check (I need that guy!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kish View Post
    Then we've already seen a spell that would have foiled it, haven't we? Cloister. And the wizard who came up with that one wasn't even the master of illusion.
    Where? It's not like V was using psionics in one of his attempts...
    Last edited by silversaraph; 2010-01-03 at 10:33 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by silversaraph View Post
    And then the reverse-reverse happens. And then the universe implodes and creates a gigantic black hole. The end.
    Spoiler
    Show
    Yes, I really quoted myself and put it in my signature. You can't honestly say you never thought something you said was so awesome you wanted to make it into a quote and put it in your signature, can you?

    Spoiler
    Show
    Okay, maybe you can.


    Why did I buy Teleporking.com? I have no idea. Am I rich yet?

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Banned
     
    The Vorpal Tribble's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    The Mindfields
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: Why psionics solves everything

    Why would Cloister have any effect on it?

    Edit: 2nd question, did you follow the link I posted?
    Last edited by The Vorpal Tribble; 2010-01-03 at 10:32 AM.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Kish's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2004

    Default Re: Why psionics solves everything

    Yes. Oh, wait, you're right, Cloister wouldn't affect a power invoked while standing in the area to be scanned.

    Regardless. I think you're overrating psionics and that Girard is far more likely to have used a spell that would block all magical or psionic detection methods than something that blocks magic but lets psionics get right through (whether or not Girard actually took psionics into account). He would certainly not need actual psion levels to do so.

    Although the Order's already pretty certain the Gate's not there. I imagine, if they used that power, the result would be "nothing here but a trap which already went off," not because Girard cast any manner of concealing spell there, but because that's the case.
    Last edited by Kish; 2010-01-03 at 10:40 AM.
    Spoiler
    Show
    "You are what you do. Choose again, and change." --Miles Vorkosigan

    "The really unforgivable acts are committed by calm men in beautiful green silk rooms, who deal death wholesale, by the shipload, without lust, or anger, or desire, or any redeeming emotion to excuse them but cold fear of some pretended future. But the crimes they hope to prevent in the future are imaginary. The ones they commit in the present--they are real." --Aral Vorkosigan

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    This, in a nutshell.
    Yes, exactly.

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Mystic Muse's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    My Equestria
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: Why psionics solves everything

    Isn't everything in the SRD open content?

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Banned
     
    The Vorpal Tribble's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    The Mindfields
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: Why psionics solves everything

    There IS nothing that blocks it yet still allows magic/psionics to function. There is nothing to block. You sense what is already there with that power.

    Although the Order's already pretty certain the Gate's not there. I imagine, if they used that power, the result would be "nothing here but a trap which already went off," not because Girard cast any manner of concealing spell there, but because that's the case.
    With as emotionally involved as the Scribble was with the gates you bet anything involved with it would leave an impression.

    Everything mentioned so far is very LESS likely than the fact that the ability would simply work.
    Last edited by The Vorpal Tribble; 2010-01-03 at 10:43 AM.

  12. - Top - End - #12

    Default Re: Why psionics solves everything

    Quote Originally Posted by The Vorpal Tribble View Post
    This is why Roy needs to take that level in psion.
    So he can be past-psychic in addition to being future-psychic?

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Orc in the Playground
     
    silversaraph's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Why psionics solves everything

    Quote Originally Posted by Kish View Post
    Yes. Oh, wait, you're right, Cloister wouldn't affect a power invoked while standing in the area to be scanned.

    Regardless. I think you're overrating psionics and that Girard is far more likely to have used a spell that would block all magical or psionic detection methods than something that blocks magic but lets psionics get right through (whether or not Girard actually took psionics into account). He would certainly not need actual psion levels to do so.

    Although the Order's already pretty certain the Gate's not there. I imagine, if they used that power, the result would be "nothing here but a trap which already went off," not because Girard cast any manner of concealing spell there, but because that's the case.
    This is also a world where an intelligent goblin who as traveled the world didn't know if psionics existed or not. I think in this world psionics is like the tooth faerie to us-- everyone has heard about it, but people assume it doesn't actually exist (it's been used in bedtime stories!)

    Edit:
    Quote Originally Posted by Pharaoh's Fist View Post
    So he can be past-psychic in addition to being future-psychic?

    Oh, yeah. and THIS.
    Last edited by silversaraph; 2010-01-03 at 10:46 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by silversaraph View Post
    And then the reverse-reverse happens. And then the universe implodes and creates a gigantic black hole. The end.
    Spoiler
    Show
    Yes, I really quoted myself and put it in my signature. You can't honestly say you never thought something you said was so awesome you wanted to make it into a quote and put it in your signature, can you?

    Spoiler
    Show
    Okay, maybe you can.


    Why did I buy Teleporking.com? I have no idea. Am I rich yet?

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Banned
     
    The Vorpal Tribble's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    The Mindfields
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: Why psionics solves everything

    Quote Originally Posted by Pharaoh's Fist View Post
    So he can be past-psychic in addition to being future-psychic?

  15. - Top - End - #15
    Barbarian in the Playground
    Join Date
    Dec 2008

    Default Re: Why psionics solves everything

    This is also a world where an intelligent goblin who as traveled the world didn't know if psionics existed or not. I think in this world psionics is like the tooth faerie to us-- everyone has heard about it, but people assume it doesn't actually exist (it's been used in bedtime stories!)
    But maybe Girard knew a guy as a kid who was a psion or something. Or Soon did, or Kraagor, or somebody, so they knew it wasn't made up. Contrived? Maaaaaaybe - but this is a story. "Just use stronger skills!" isn't really going to work.

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Banned
     
    The Vorpal Tribble's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    The Mindfields
    Gender
    Female

    furious Re: Why psionics solves everything

    Quote Originally Posted by Conuly View Post
    But maybe Girard knew a guy as a kid who was a psion or something. Or Soon did, or Kraagor, or somebody, so they knew it wasn't made up. Contrived? Maaaaaaybe - but this is a story. "Just use stronger skills!" isn't really going to work.
    #1. The power is Seer-only. Not only would not every psion know of the power, only one type of psion could even manifest it regardless of whether they knew of its existence.

    #2. Assuming the above, he'd have to even remember it and think, 'Well hey, maybe there is a chance in a billion someone would use it'

    #3. Assuming even that, there is no way for a magic user OR psionic user to cover it.

    #4. Ok, maybe all three above happen. He now has to go out of his way to research a specific spell that specifically counters a psionic power that he just had to go through a series of highly improbable events to be aware of, remember and act against.

    At this point what is more likely, all of the above happened or he simply didn't prepare for it?
    Last edited by The Vorpal Tribble; 2010-01-03 at 11:01 AM.

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Orc in the Playground
     
    silversaraph's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Why psionics solves everything

    What's funny though, is that if this, on the off chance, WAS what Rich was going to do, he'd probably go ****! and cancel it. I remember him saying once that he skims through speculation threads like this, and also tries his hardest to be as unexpected as possible. So we know for sure now that it isn't going to happen. I think it would be fun to suggest every possible scenario for a comic in which something big is going to happen, with a thread title to grab his attention. I wonder, if a different person did it every time, that would be considered spamming or not...

    If he does see this, it's also possible he'll use REVERSE PSYCHOLOGY and do exactly what we suspect, just to throw us off, and other people can use that as evidence in that he doesn't do what I'm saying!

    And then the reverse-reverse happens. And then the universe implodes and creates a gigantic black hole. The end.
    Quote Originally Posted by silversaraph View Post
    And then the reverse-reverse happens. And then the universe implodes and creates a gigantic black hole. The end.
    Spoiler
    Show
    Yes, I really quoted myself and put it in my signature. You can't honestly say you never thought something you said was so awesome you wanted to make it into a quote and put it in your signature, can you?

    Spoiler
    Show
    Okay, maybe you can.


    Why did I buy Teleporking.com? I have no idea. Am I rich yet?

  18. - Top - End - #18
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Kish's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2004

    Default Re: Why psionics solves everything

    Quote Originally Posted by The Vorpal Tribble View Post
    At this point what is more likely, all of the above happened or he SIMPLY DIDN'T PREPARE FOR IT?
    Given that the Gate is unlikely to be there, he probably didn't prepare for it. However, I still don't accept your duality. It's, rather:
    1: Girard cast a general-purpose epic thwart-all-kinds-of-magical-detections spell at the Gate's location. It covers the power you linked too, even though it wouldn't if you were writing the comic.
    2: He didn't bother to shield the random location he sent Soon. Neither would the power pick up anything there, since there never was anything significant there.
    3: Because he had to specifically be thinking of psionics, and moreover, of the specific power he wanted to block for his magic to block the power, his legendary illusions fall before the power of any psion.

    Option #3 is the only one I'm discarding; I get that it's also the only one you're not discarding.
    Quote Originally Posted by silversaraph View Post
    What's funny though, is that if this, on the off chance, WAS what Rich was going to do, he'd probably go ****! and cancel it. I remember him saying once that he skims through speculation threads like this, and also tries his hardest to be as unexpected as possible.
    No, he said it bothers him when people guess what he's going to do, but he also said he's never actually changed anything based on forum speculation.
    Last edited by Kish; 2010-01-03 at 11:03 AM.
    Spoiler
    Show
    "You are what you do. Choose again, and change." --Miles Vorkosigan

    "The really unforgivable acts are committed by calm men in beautiful green silk rooms, who deal death wholesale, by the shipload, without lust, or anger, or desire, or any redeeming emotion to excuse them but cold fear of some pretended future. But the crimes they hope to prevent in the future are imaginary. The ones they commit in the present--they are real." --Aral Vorkosigan

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    This, in a nutshell.
    Yes, exactly.

  19. - Top - End - #19

    Default Re: Why psionics solves everything

    Quote Originally Posted by silversaraph View Post
    What's funny though, is that if this, on the off chance, WAS what Rich was going to do, he'd probably go ****! and cancel it.
    On the off, off chance that it was going to do. Which is an off chance. A very off chance.

  20. - Top - End - #20
    Banned
     
    The Vorpal Tribble's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    The Mindfields
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: Why psionics solves everything

    1: Girard cast a general-purpose epic thwart-all-kinds-of-magical-detections spell at the Gate's location. It covers the power you linked too, even though it wouldn't if you were writing the comic.
    Here's the thing though, clairsentient powers are not divination spells. There is a difference. As such, he would still need to include powers and be mindful of their existence.

    2: He didn't bother to shield the random location he sent Soon. Neither would the power pick up anything there, since there never was anything significant there.
    The fact they discovered nothing regarding an actual gate would be the answer.

    3: Because he had to specifically be thinking of psionics, and moreover, of the specific power he wanted to block for his magic to block the power, his legendary illusions fall before the power of any psion.
    Assuming the psion managed to bypass them to get to that specific spot, sure.

    It's called a loophole. And it's an obscure one. It's not being more powerful, it's just knowing one thing you're opponent doesn't.

  21. - Top - End - #21
    Barbarian in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jun 2008

    Default Re: Why psionics solves everything

    Quote Originally Posted by The Vorpal Tribble View Post
    Here's the thing though, clairsentient powers are not divination spells. There is a difference. As such, he would still need to include powers and be mindful of their existence.
    Assuming that the psionics-magic transparency exist:
    SRD:
    Quote Originally Posted by SRD
    For the purpose of psionics-magic transparency, clairsentience powers are equivalent to powers of the divination school (thus, creatures immune to divination spells are also immune to clairsentience powers).

  22. - Top - End - #22
    Banned
     
    The Vorpal Tribble's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    The Mindfields
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: Why psionics solves everything

    Quote Originally Posted by Pyron View Post
    Assuming that the psionics-magic transparency exist:
    SRD:
    Which would mean it would have to hide every divination power. Ever. In the entire area. Even those immune to spell resistance. Even those that doesn't specify an area, target or time period. That would hide even divinations that would read emotions that he emoted AFTER the casting.

    Such a spell however would also be an answer of sorts.
    Last edited by The Vorpal Tribble; 2010-01-03 at 11:40 AM.

  23. - Top - End - #23
    Titan in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Manchester, UK
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Why psionics solves everything

    If the rules say that there's nothing an epic level magic-user can do to block a 2nd level psionic power then the rules are insane. Any DM worth his salt would have that house-ruled out in about 0.03 seconds, and we know that the Giant is perfectly willing to change or ignore the rules if the plot takes precedence!

  24. - Top - End - #24
    Banned
     
    The Vorpal Tribble's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    The Mindfields
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: Why psionics solves everything

    Quote Originally Posted by factotum View Post
    If the rules say that there's nothing an epic level magic-user can do to block a 2nd level psionic power then the rules are insane. Any DM worth his salt would have that house-ruled out in about 0.03 seconds, and we know that the Giant is perfectly willing to change or ignore the rules if the plot takes precedence!
    The whole point is the chances of him going to that effort are slimmer than him not going to that effort.

    Honestly...

  25. - Top - End - #25
    Banned
     
    Ancalagon's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jun 2007

    Default Re: Why psionics solves everything

    The most boring power you can have in any system is the "it solves the plot power".

    Really, why even PLAY if you just "throw spell X* at the problem and the plot is solved"?

    * Possibly even abusing a glitch in the design.

  26. - Top - End - #26
    Barbarian in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jun 2008

    Default Re: Why psionics solves everything

    Quote Originally Posted by The Vorpal Tribble View Post
    Which would mean it would have to hide every divination power. Ever.
    Which already exists - it's called the Conceal Seed. Granted it can be defeated with an opposed caster level check. But, who's going to win: Epic level Illusionist or 3rd level Psion?

  27. - Top - End - #27
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Ryuuk's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2006
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Why psionics solves everything

    The power wouldn't really solve it for them though. If a member of the party where to use it they'd see two things for certain: Roy as he realizes that its a trap, and Girard as he's placing it. That's it.

    Odds are it would just be another divination that revealed nothing else about that particular spot of the desert. Unless Girard decided to go into an evil monologue after casting the trap, cursing Soon and saying the exact location of the gate out loud, all they would have would be a confirmation that nothing else happened there.

    The way I see it, unless you know where to look, that power isn't going to help them find the gate anymore then True Seeing or Polymorphing into a Badger.
    Last edited by Ryuuk; 2010-01-03 at 12:38 PM.
    Will be edited by Ryuuk : Sometime in the future.

  28. - Top - End - #28
    Banned
     
    The Vorpal Tribble's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    The Mindfields
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: Why psionics solves everything

    Which already exists - it's called the Conceal Seed. Granted it can be defeated with an opposed caster level check. But, who's going to win: Epic level Illusionist or 3rd level Psion?
    That doesn't apply. Read the power.

    The way I see it, unless you know where to look, you're that power isn't going to help them find the gate anymore then True Seeing or Polymorphing into a Badger.
    You'd see him hiding the gate if there was one, and merely making the explosion trap if it wasn't there.

    Both involved heavy emotional states, something that would register with the power.

  29. - Top - End - #29
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Lamech's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2007

    Default Re: Why psionics solves everything

    Only detects emotional events. NOT gates. So they might see a battle. Involving some shadowy people, who may or may not be the order of the scribble. Also if Girard is mind blanked its going to fail, something he should be doing. If the rift and battle were below the sand it won't do anything. OTOH, the hapless psion might see a battle with out a gate because its the war torn western continent. Finally if the battle had conflicting emotions such as fear and rage the spell wouldn't give anything.

    Which means the spell is essentially worthless. It has a good chance of missing the battle, it has a good chance of giving a battle despite the lack of gates. Its useless.
    My deaths to wolves (or other evil night killers)
    Spoiler
    Show

    Spytrap III, Ultimate Kaos II, Monty Python, Twin Village, Invasion of the Zombies: Outbreak, Vampires III

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow
    I think Lamech will make a great Sephiroth.
    A new New York IC OOC

  30. - Top - End - #30
    Barbarian in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jun 2008

    Default Re: Why psionics solves everything

    Quote Originally Posted by The Vorpal Tribble View Post
    That doesn't apply. Read the power.
    You mean: "The conceal seed can also be used to block divination spells, spell-like effects, and epic spells developed using the reveal seed" doesn't apply?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •