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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

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    Default If Charm Person fails...

    My bard/wizard is in front of a guy. I cast Charm Person on that guy, and his saving throw succeeds. Now, if he isn't extremely stupid, he's just understood that I cast a spell on him, and it didn't work. Won't that make him extremely angry against me? If so, a failed Charm Person will almost always result in the contrary effect.


    Another scenario. My bard is in front of a wizard. I cast Charm Person, and the saving throw fails. The wizard is Charmed, but he rolls a Spellcraft check and understands that I cast Charm Person. His aptitude should be friendly toward me, but he knows that is because of the spell, and therefore has really good reason to be angry against me and to avoid me. How does the spell work in this case?

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    Yuki Akuma's Avatar

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    Default Re: If Charm Person fails...

    Yep. Being obvious with Charm Person tends to be a bad idea.

    Obviously, the Wizard tells himself, your friend cast Charm Person on you because it was the best thing for you in the circumstances. After all, he's your friend, right? He wouldn't do anything to harm you.
    There's no wrong way to play. - S. John Ross

    Quote Originally Posted by archaeo View Post
    Man, this is just one of those things you see and realize, "I live in a weird and banal future."
    Dreamer Pony is by Akrim.elf.
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    Default Re: If Charm Person fails...

    #1. Charm Person isn't a good idea.

    #2. Here's my combo of persuasion (both gestalt and non-gestalt)

    Gestalt: Bard//Merchant 15/ Evangelist 5: Focus on Diplomacy, Knowledge: Nobility and Local, and Preformance: Oratory

    Non-Gestalt: Merchant10/Bard5/Evangelist5: Same skill focuses, just without gestalt ease

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    Default Re: If Charm Person fails...

    In the first scenario unless they have spellcraft they know you've cast a spell, but they don't know what. Pretty easy to convince them it was a mental buff spell.
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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: If Charm Person fails...

    "I cast you a mental buff spell just because I really like you even if we've never met before, not a spell to convince you to give me that item for free..."

    Is that a -50 to Bluff, or just a -40?

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    Default Re: If Charm Person fails...

    Quote Originally Posted by Pigkappa View Post
    "I cast you a mental buff spell just because I really like you even if we've never met before, not a spell to convince you to give me that item for free..."

    Is that a -50 to Bluff, or just a -40?
    -∞ in my books.
    Quote Originally Posted by Calanon View Post
    Raven_Cry's comments often have the effects of a +5 Tome of Understanding

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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Noble Savant's Avatar

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    Default Re: If Charm Person fails...

    "There was a terrible curse on you! I had only a few moments left to cure it before it killed you!"
    The only thing worse than an empty signature is one that has nothing at all to say. One that simply yammers on with little or no point; quietly, subtly draining away seconds of your life.

    The worst are the ones that look like they have a point. Multiple paragraph monstrosities that you're sure will have some sort of satisfying conclusion. Some sort of goal, to show that your reading was not in vain.

    It doesn't and it was.

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    Default Re: If Charm Person fails...

    Quote Originally Posted by Pigkappa View Post
    "I cast you a mental buff spell just because I really like you even if we've never met before, not a spell to convince you to give me that item for free..."

    Is that a -50 to Bluff, or just a -40?
    I think you get this response.

    Qui-Gon: Right, which one of you is in charge?
    Droid: State your business.
    Qui-Gon: Let these men go. We're taking them to Croissant.
    Panaka: Coruscant.
    Qui-Gon: What he said.
    Droid: Under what authority?
    Qui-Gon: Don't you recognise me? I'm your commander!
    Droid: My commander is a droid.
    Qui-Gon: I'm undercover.
    Droid: What is your serial number?
    Qui-Gon: It's... uh... I roll for Bluff!
    GM: There aren't enough dice in the world. They draw their weapons.
    Last edited by Saph; 2010-01-04 at 07:43 PM.
    I'm the author of the Alex Verus series of urban fantasy novels. Fated is the first, and Book #5 in the series, Hidden, is out as of September 2014. For updates, check my blog!

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    Default Re: If Charm Person fails...

    Bluff opposed by both Spellcraft and Sense Motive, I'm afraid...
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    Default Re: If Charm Person fails...

    "Whoa, thanks for charming me. I'm worried I'd have been too quick to distrust you otherwise, and that would be a terrible thing to happen with a guy as nice as you."

    Quote Originally Posted by Saph View Post
    I think you get this response.

    Qui-Gon: Right, which one of you is in charge?
    Droid: State your business.
    Qui-Gon: Let these men go. We're taking them to Croissant.
    Panaka: Coruscant.
    Qui-Gon: What he said.
    Droid: Under what authority?
    Qui-Gon: Don't you recognise me? I'm your commander!
    Droid: My commander is a droid.
    Qui-Gon: I'm undercover.
    Droid: What is your serial number?
    Qui-Gon: It's... uh... I roll for Bluff!
    GM: There aren't enough dice in the world. They draw their weapons.
    I remember a story about a guy who tried to use a Bluff check to speak Elvish. He ended up telling an elven border guard that he had come to eat their children or something.
    Last edited by Prime32; 2010-01-04 at 07:48 PM.
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    Manave_E_Sulanul's Avatar

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    Default Re: If Charm Person fails...

    Still spell is excellent for this. Your words just suddenly seem unnaturally attractive.
    Avatar by Sneak!

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    Yuki Akuma's Avatar

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    Default Re: If Charm Person fails...

    Quote Originally Posted by Manave_E_Sulanul View Post
    Still spell is excellent for this. Your words just suddenly seem unnaturally attractive.
    Unfortunately, when you make a saving throw, you know someone tried to do something to do.
    There's no wrong way to play. - S. John Ross

    Quote Originally Posted by archaeo View Post
    Man, this is just one of those things you see and realize, "I live in a weird and banal future."
    Dreamer Pony is by Akrim.elf.
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    Baiyan, God of Joy, by GryffonDurime, while the C.U.T.E Scardycat and Dreamer are by Tomb Raven.


    I'm very slowly working on a Legend of Zelda-themed homebrew for D&D 5e. God help me.

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    Optimystik's Avatar

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    Default Re: If Charm Person fails...

    Quote Originally Posted by Yuki_Akuma View Post
    Obviously, the Wizard tells himself, your friend cast Charm Person on you because it was the best thing for you in the circumstances. After all, he's your friend, right? He wouldn't do anything to harm you.
    Eerie, yet accurate; this is exactly how I would play it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Manave_E_Sulanul View Post
    Still spell is excellent for this. Your words just suddenly seem unnaturally attractive.
    Unless you also have silent spell, that feat that lets you hide the verbal components of spells in normal speech, or the skill trick that hides them both, your target will still notice you slipping "An Xen Ex!" or "Kal Vas Mani!" into regular conversation.

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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    MonkGirl

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    Default Re: If Charm Person fails...

    Quote Originally Posted by Pigkappa View Post
    "I cast you a mental buff spell just because I really like you even if we've never met before, not a spell to convince you to give me that item for free..."

    Is that a -50 to Bluff, or just a -40?

    In MMORPG's that tends to be how things work -_-
    I have to give Paizo credit...

    They took an established work and said they fixed it but didn't actually fix it and yet still made money off from it.

    How can you beat that?

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    Default Re: If Charm Person fails...

    If a wizard succeeded on his spellcraft to identify a charm person being cast on him, wouldn't he try to avoid and have the spell dispelled somehow - he might like them but he knows of the spell and its exact effects plus he has a high intelligence.

    Finally why would you do it right in front of the target, charm person may only have a range of close but that is still at least 30 feet; do it from outside the shop before you come in, across the bar before you approach then its just a random person muttering to themselves and you can excuse looking at them weird as "eh its you i was trying to figure out if it was" or " do i know you ive been trying to figure out if i know you for ..."

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    Default Re: If Charm Person fails...

    Quote Originally Posted by Optimystik View Post
    Eerie, yet accurate; this is exactly how I would play it.



    Unless you also have silent spell, that feat that lets you hide the verbal components of spells in normal speech, or the skill trick that hides them both, your target will still notice you slipping "An Xen Ex!" or "Kal Vas Mani!" into regular conversation.
    Conceal Spellcasting skill trick. "Hello there, barkeep, I say isn't the weather just *coughcharmpersoncough* wonderful?"
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    Optimystik's Avatar

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    Default Re: If Charm Person fails...

    Quote Originally Posted by Flickerdart View Post
    Conceal Spellcasting skill trick.
    (a) That's the one I mentioned;
    (b) Limited uses per day, so be careful who you discuss the weather with.

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    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Re: If Charm Person fails...

    Based on casting rules, IIRC: You see the caster speak some unintelligible words and make some complex gestures, then you feel an unknown malevolant force in your head but you manage to will it away.

    Yeah, the caster isn't exactly looking like a saint here. Either you need some crazy bluff action and someone who has never seen a caster in their life, or it's time to fight.
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    Default Re: If Charm Person fails...

    Quote Originally Posted by Optimystik View Post
    (a) That's the one I mentioned;
    (b) Limited uses per day, so be careful who you discuss the weather with.
    1/encounter, IIRC.

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    Yuki Akuma's Avatar

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    Default Re: If Charm Person fails...

    Quote Originally Posted by Sinfire Titan View Post
    1/encounter, IIRC.
    Out of combat, about 1/five minutes. So it is limited uses per day.

    288 uses per day.
    There's no wrong way to play. - S. John Ross

    Quote Originally Posted by archaeo View Post
    Man, this is just one of those things you see and realize, "I live in a weird and banal future."
    Dreamer Pony is by Akrim.elf.
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    Default Re: If Charm Person fails...

    If your spell fails, then it's Plan B. You do have a Plan B, right? Someone suggested taking advantage of the spell's range. Do that.

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    Default Re: If Charm Person fails...

    Quote Originally Posted by Yuki_Akuma View Post
    Out of combat, about 1/five minutes. So it is limited uses per day.

    288 uses per day.
    Charm Person is an attack, making it the "encounter" ruling rather than the "minute" ruling. Better hope you don't have to charm two people in the same room.

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    Default Re: If Charm Person fails...

    Quote Originally Posted by good_lookin_gus View Post
    If your spell fails, then it's Plan B. You do have a Plan B, right? Someone suggested taking advantage of the spell's range. Do that.
    Isn't plan B always kill everyone?
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    Default Re: If Charm Person fails...

    Quote Originally Posted by pffh View Post
    Isn't plan B always kill everyone?
    ???

    I thought that was the main objective.

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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: If Charm Person fails...

    One could just use slight of hand to conceal the spellcasting without the trick.

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    Yuki Akuma's Avatar

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    Default Re: If Charm Person fails...

    Quote Originally Posted by olentu View Post
    One could just use slight of hand to conceal the spellcasting without the trick.
    But then you're still firmly speaking weird arcane gibberish halfway through the conversation.
    There's no wrong way to play. - S. John Ross

    Quote Originally Posted by archaeo View Post
    Man, this is just one of those things you see and realize, "I live in a weird and banal future."
    Dreamer Pony is by Akrim.elf.
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    Baiyan, God of Joy, by GryffonDurime, while the C.U.T.E Scardycat and Dreamer are by Tomb Raven.


    I'm very slowly working on a Legend of Zelda-themed homebrew for D&D 5e. God help me.

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    Default Re: If Charm Person fails...

    Quote Originally Posted by Yuki_Akuma View Post
    But then you're still firmly speaking weird arcane gibberish halfway through the conversation.
    Claim it's a condition. If they question you on it, be hurt and offended. People have a desire to please, so if you act hurt, they're likely to drop it.

    Unless, y'know, the DM doesn't want them to.
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    WhiteWizardGirl

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    Default Re: If Charm Person fails...

    Quote Originally Posted by Deth Muncher View Post
    Claim it's a condition. If they question you on it, be hurt and offended. People have a desire to please, so if you act hurt, they're likely to drop it.

    Unless, y'know, the DM doesn't want them to.
    You can have glibness up so that they believe you.

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    Troll in the Playground
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    Default Re: If Charm Person fails...

    I Would ask how they knew that you cast a spell on them and not on yourself, but apparently you feel "a malevolent force you will away" or something...

    My favorite is stilled + silenced spell... you look "really hard" at him and thats all it takes to cast the spell.
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    Yuki Akuma's Avatar

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    Default Re: If Charm Person fails...

    Quote Originally Posted by taltamir View Post
    I Would ask how they knew that you cast a spell on them and not on yourself, but apparently you feel "a malevolent force you will away" or something...

    My favorite is stilled + silenced spell... you look "really hard" at him and thats all it takes to cast the spell.
    Actually, you basically just stare off into space when you cast a stilled-silent spell with no material components. Which is why you still provoke an AoO.
    There's no wrong way to play. - S. John Ross

    Quote Originally Posted by archaeo View Post
    Man, this is just one of those things you see and realize, "I live in a weird and banal future."
    Dreamer Pony is by Akrim.elf.
    Spoiler
    Show

    Baiyan, God of Joy, by GryffonDurime, while the C.U.T.E Scardycat and Dreamer are by Tomb Raven.


    I'm very slowly working on a Legend of Zelda-themed homebrew for D&D 5e. God help me.

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