[3.5] Help me build the Sanderson Sisters from Hocus Pocus

[DementedFellow]

I am wanting to pit my group against the Sanderson Sisters, from the movie Hocus Pocus.

For those that don't know what I am talking about, but need a refresher themselves. I'll add a brief overview:

Winifried "Winnie" Sanderson - Considered to be the most intelligent, most powerful and the wickedest. She is also considered the most vain, as the mere mention of her being "ugly" causes her to either lash out in anger or to start crying.
Mary Sanderson - Considered to be the most observant. She uses her powers to smell and track children so she can eat them. She is the glue that holds the sisters together as she is the first to remind them of their mother's love and support during especially trying times.
Sarah Sanderson - Considered to be the dumbest of the three, her powers are of hypnosis and suggestion. She enjoys a bit of torture and is not above using her beauty to help her achieve her goals.

The characters facing them will be:
Level 4 Half-Orc Barbarian
Level 4 Human Cleric of Asmodeus
Level 2 Muckdweller Rogue

I want the witches to be somewhere within their challenge rating, so Winifred should be the only one who could have an entire spell level ahead of the group.

Here is a small and probably incomplete list of things the witches do in the course of the movie:

They prepare a potion that allows them to suck the life energy of a young child.
They are able to fly with brooms (but it appears they can enchant other cleaning items to fly with)
Winnie casts some sort of lighting magic
They are able to curse a boy, so that the lives forever as a cat
They are able to cast a spell, which causes them to resurrect
They have spellbook that seemingly answers their call and can fly.
Sarah was able to fascinate a large group of children to follow her
They cast a spell which causes people to dance all night.

I am thinking of making Winnie a straight wizard, Sarah would probably be a bard, but I can't think of a good thing for Mary to be that would show how good she is at tracking.

Can the Sanderson Sisters be made at low-level? If not, what level would be earliest they could be utilized?

Discussion of all things Hocus Pocus related is always welcome.

[333]

I personally love the Hocus Pocus movie, and as such love this idea. I doubt you can make them accurate at that level, but let's attempt it anyway.

First, lets look at the book. It's obviously an intelligent item that shares Winnie's alignment (I wanna say NE). Gimme a moment to bring up the Intelligent Item rules...

Ok, Winnie's Book functions like Boccob's Blessed Book, however it is an intelligent item. It possesses an above average Intelligence and Wisdom, score, but still only possesses Empathy, and communicating with the sisters by opening up to various spells. It possesses a Mind Link with it's owner, allowing it to hear her commands across any distance on the same plane. It possesses the following abilities:

Overland Flight (CL 18) 1/day, Looking at the books eye triggers a suggestion to peruse the books pages, the book allows any number of spell casters to participate in a circle magic ritual as though they possessed the Tattoo Focus feat, with the Book itself acting as the Circle Leader, granting it's bonuses to whoever is holding the book (Treat the book as a sorcerer of 18th level, with any spell in its pages as a spell known. It casts these spells at the request of the individual holding the book.)

More changes can be made, however the above would give them all the abilities they demonstrated in the movie (PAO, Otto's Irresistible Dance, Wish could probably be used to make Binks immortal against his will, and create contingencies to protect them from being burned up in a kiln. Shouldn't make them to powerful, especially if you require them to hold the book, and spend a minute in ritual to use it's abilities.

That would mean that the sisters could be significantly lower level:

Winnie: Wizard 5, plain and simple, she doesn't have her sister's special talents, but she is the one connected to the book, which give her a spell casting edge. She has the highest intelligence of the three.

Mary: I imagine she would have scent, but I can't figure out how. Their might be a druid spell that grants it at low level. Which is why I would suggest she be a Druid 4. She has the highest wisdom of the three.

Sarah: Part of me wants to make her a bard because of her singing (I love that scene!) but instead I think making her a Sorceress 4 would work. She has the highest Charisma of the three.

As for the other abilities, the book can usually cover it. Flying cleaning implements? Have the book Wish up some brooms of flight. Life draining potions? I would leaf through the BoVD, might be something in there.

They aren't exactly like the witches from the movie, and rely more on the book than they did in the film, but its a starting point at least =)

[Segev]

I don't know Muckdweller as a race, but I will assume it has LA+2 so that it's a party of 3 level 4s.

As such, two 4s and a 5 plus as powerful a book as suggested is probably a bit much, actually.

Sadly, my first impulse - a covey of Hags - is even more out of the CR of this group.


Binks' immortality is actually probably best achieved via a combination of actually killing him and having him come back as a ghost, and then hitting him with Bestow Curse to be stuck in a corporeal cat form. The ghost's recovery ability reflects his "ressurection" well enough, and being a cat definitely qualifies for the kinds of penalties Bestow Curse can give. It's a little liberal in interpretation, since Bestow Curse typically isn't seen as transformative, but it fits with "witchery."

Unfortunately, Bestow Curse is Sor/Wiz 4. Here's where the book can come in, though! Make it allow an Arcane version of Metaconcert. It unites multiple spellcasters together into one super-caster of higher effective level, and otherwise operates as a Boccob's Book to allow the united trio to cast spells of higher level than normal. When the three of them work together over the book (requiring whatever ritual implements and time you want to require), they act as a 7th level wizard. But this shouldn't be useful in combat-time.

You can actually achieve the "Dance All Night" with creative use of Hypnotism, cast by Winnie and Sarah to cover sufficient HD of people (perhaps Empowered by Winnie?). It lets you make people have an attitude two steps friendlier towards you while you maintain the spell, and then give a single suggestion for which they maintain that attitude for some time thereafter. Explains handily why the singing made the crowd get into it, and Winnie's order to dance was taken to so strongly.

I'd put Sarah as only level 3 (restricting her to 1st level spells) and load her up with Hypnotism, Charm Person, and one offensive spell. She may also be the one with Brew Potion. I'd just use a Candle of Invocation to justify the "they come back" effect. They made a pact with a terrible creature, and it restored the candle as a marker of their gateway back. Or you can ignore that part as something not needed for your campaign, if you want them to be recurring at all.

I do think Winnie at Wiz 5 (with LIGHTNING BOLT as her evocation spell of choice) and Mary as a Druid 4 are good choices.

Make Winnie a Necromancer and use Unearthed Arcana's substitution of a skeletal minion for a familiar, and you can bring her zombie ex-boyfriend servant into play.

Winnie probably has a wolf animal companion, and uses its scent ability as much as a magical one of her own from spells.


The easiest way to do the flying brooms is simply to give them three brooms of flying.



Hope that helps!

[Malroth]

You should make them be Wizard 7, Druid 6, Bard 6 and have the PC's spend a level fighting summoned or hypnotized minions before taking the sisters on one at a time as solo boss encounters.

[Waker]

You could make Mary a Shifter Hunter Druid with the Dreamsight trait.

[333]

Segev, I didn't even think about looking to Psionics for inspiration, nice suggestion. Seems I need to go over the books again, as I didn't even think of hypnosis and bestow curse as answers. Silly me and my love of higher level spells. =)

[Psyren]

Note that the Pathfinder Witch has a hex that lets it sniff out children - you could use this to pick up Mary's signature ability.

[DementedFellow]

What book has the rules on ritual magic or circle magic? I have so many books. I need a little guidance here.

By the way, these suggestions are wonderful! I must say I am awed at how well you all can dissect the rules and make them work with any given concept.

[333]

I was originally using circle magic as described in the DMG under the Red Wizard PRC, although I think an alternate version appeared in Ghostwalk (Not sure about that actually)

Honestly, though, I think Segev's suggestion of a Arcane Metaconcert would work better (Wish I had thought of it)

[HowlingWolf]

Hey there,

Big fan of the movie, myself. I hope you don't mind my chiming in. Here is my own take on the matter.

Winnie, of the three sisters, was the most powerful and intelligent. If you're wanting to create these in a low level, say 1-6, I'd use d6 in itself. Winnie
could be made as a level 5-6, being the most powerful and intelligent of the three. I'd try to focus her on potion making, evocation, and necromancy. One could use Paizo's witch for her. Level five would give her quite a nice combination of powers, hexes, and the like. Her familiar could easily be her book.

Mary, seemed to be the group's hunter, sniffing out and hunting down children. She was the largest of the three, and likely had the greatest
strength and senses. She could be made with three levels of witch, plus one
level of ranger (tracking). This would give her a decent amount of spellcasting, increase her combat capability slightly, increase her hit points,
as well as give her both Scent AND tracking. Her spells could be focused on
seeking, stealth, and the like. An intelligence of 12 but a higher wisdom would serve well here. As would the alertness feat.

Sarah, was the most attractive of the group by far, as well as the sneakiest.
She would need only 12 int for 2nd level spells, and could be made with a higher charisma. She could focus in enchantment/song spells and could be made with either Bard or Witch. Preferably, though, she could be made with
both Rogue 1/Witch 3. Making her with a low wisdom would keep her true to character -- unassuming and goofy. The Charm hex would work very well for her. A high dex would also serve her character to form.

All three sisters seemed to contribute in their own way, to the potion-making. So, thus, I would assume each one would have the Cauldron hex or
Potion Making feat. In addition, the three of them could form a coven using the hex (house-ruling Winnie to be a "Hag"...well...the boy DID call her a hag..."), using their 3rd level feat to purchase an additional hex...this would
effectively bump up their caster level.

[DementedFellow]

Mary, seemed to be the group's hunter, sniffing out and hunting down children. She was the largest of the three, and likely had the greatest
strength and senses. She could be made with three levels of witch, plus one
level of ranger (tracking). This would give her a decent amount of spellcasting, increase her combat capability slightly, increase her hit points,
as well as give her both Scent AND tracking. Her spells could be focused on
seeking, stealth, and the like. An intelligence of 12 but a higher wisdom would serve well here. As would the alertness feat.

How does a single ranger dip give her scent?

[Arbane]

In addition, the three of them could form a coven using the hex (house-ruling Winnie to be a "Hag"...well...the boy DID call her a hag..."), using their 3rd level feat to purchase an additional hex...this would
effectively bump up their caster level.

No kidding it would - a Hag Coven gets some stupidly powerful abilities. Possibly way too much for level 6 PCs to handle.

[HowlingWolf]

How does a single ranger dip give her scent?

Oh lol...forgot to type in there, "Give her the child scent hex". That would give her both scent and track.

[HowlingWolf]

No kidding it would - a Hag Coven gets some stupidly powerful abilities. Possibly way too much for level 6 PCs to handle.

They were fairly powerful, though, they were burned in the furnace and came back. Forced a crowd of people to dance..dance until you DIE..., plus
they could fly on brooms, mops, and......vacuums....

Winnie had a sentient book with an eyeball which could also fly to her, on command. They had a candle which could raise them from the dead. Polymorphed a boy into a cat, a black cat, and cursed him with Undeath. Winnie had a former-lover...zombie at her behest...although, he's hardly controlled. Didn't he fly a bird at her? LOL!

Sarah called a legion of children with only her voice.

Mary....um....she rode a broom and smells out children, and.......barks.


If all thee had the Coven Hex, then they would easily be capable of animate dead (William or whatever), flying, as well as bestow curse (the boy). :-) So, in terms of the movie, it makes sense.

Yeah....gonna go buy it on Blu-ray later. ;-)