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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    SwashbucklerGuy

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    smile Erfworld game, a co-op perhaps?

    Has anyone wanted to make the game a real game? Seems like it would be cool IMHO.
    Last edited by Org; 2010-01-11 at 02:56 PM.

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    Ettin in the Playground
     
    The Dark Fiddler's Avatar

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    Default Re: Erfworld

    Yes, many people, but we don't know enough about the game yet.

    Maybe by the end of the series, if Rob, Jamie, Xin, and whoever want to or give enough info for the fans to make one.
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    Halfling in the Playground
     
    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: Erfworld

    I actually think we do know about much of the game. True, somethings haven't really come into play yet, such as many of the classes of magic.

    But maybe those who want to can all help to make a fan game until there is such a time when the comic designers themselves release rules and such for the game.

    Anyone wish to take part in said co-op?

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    Default Re: Erfworld game, a co-op perhaps?

    it could be interesting but im busy this week so i wont be much help
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    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: Erfworld game, a co-op perhaps?

    Ahh. Thats okay.If you can help, anytimje at all, that is fine.

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    Default Re: Erfworld game, a co-op perhaps?

    You should check erfworld's forums
    They had a thread going on about it, but i don't think much was going on

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    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: Erfworld game, a co-op perhaps?

    I know. Read it yesterday.
    But, you know, doesn't really have any depth to it. Seems kinda meh.
    Oh ****. Wait. Maybe people are getting confused by what I mean.
    I am not talking about a computer game. Tabletop.
    SHHHHIIIIIII-

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    Ettin in the Playground
     
    The Dark Fiddler's Avatar

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    Default Re: Erfworld game, a co-op perhaps?

    I wasn't confused, I knew what you meant.

    Quote Originally Posted by Org View Post
    I actually think we do know about much of the game. True, somethings haven't really come into play yet, such as many of the classes of magic.
    The thing is, though, the things we don't really know (magic schools and casters in general, how currency and battles work, unit abilities, and the list goes on) are all fairly important to the game.

    Edit: Still, if you really want to go through with it, I won't stop you, and I might even look forward to the end of the project. I'm just pointing out how making a completely accurate game would be difficult at this point, and that a better version, or an official version, might come out later when more information is available.
    Last edited by The Dark Fiddler; 2010-01-10 at 12:07 PM.
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  9. - Top - End - #9
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: Erfworld game, a co-op perhaps?

    Yep. It will not be 100% accurate. But one thing is, who knows when they would release it? 2 years? 3 years?

    While it may not be 100% accurate, we would have it now.

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    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: Erfworld game, a co-op perhaps?

    Well, Dark Fiddler. Would you wish to help? You seem fairly active.

    First things first:
    Obviously, this game should be 3+ players, as one person will have to be a moderator of sorts, as he handles generating the numbers for combat and controlling wild animals and tribes and such as that. Other players start Sides, each starting with a Capital City, and maybe 1000 Schmuckers(well, this is only a guess. Maybe 500.). Each side can ally with Natural Allies(gobwins, marbits, elves)and can Tame(? something around this) Wild Animals and maybe pop them after. I guess you can also give schmuckers to the natural allies to pop themselves(as I think thats how it worked. IIRC. From the wiki). Maybe you should start with a King. Hmm.

    Errr, anyone want to help with throwing around some ides?

  11. - Top - End - #11

    Default Re: Erfworld game, a co-op perhaps?

    First off, being accurate to the source material is pointless. Being "true to the original" is overrated. Just make the game. Screw canon.

    Secondly, keep the rules simple. The more complex they are, the harder it is to resolve battles. You probably already have to track the movements of dozens, if not hundreds of stacks. Consider that you may have to do action resolutions for most of them in a single turn. Luckily, a war probably shouldn't last too many turns. Depth should be an emergent property of play and shouldn't be mistaken for complexity in rules.

    Thirdly, get one of those dry-erase hexgrid maps and water soluble markers. Maybe some kind of software program to store relevant GM data. It would be also nice if players have their own maps that they must be responsible for. The GM has the "real map" while players must update their own information.

    Another problem is that a lot of Erfworld sides seem to have unique units. It doesn't appear that all sides have access to the same kinds of units. Transylvito, for example, has some rather exotic unit types when compared to a side like Jetstone.

    So you'd have to come up with rather generic units that places like Unatard, Sofa King or Jetstone would use (which are fairly universal) then come up with sides which are less generic (e.g. Faq and Transylvito). It's probably best to keep most unit information that a side cannot pop a secret unless magic allows access to that info.

    Anyway, I'd try to keep the unit lists fairly simple and make sure that "special" abilities are the exception, not the rule. A unit's particular uniqueness should depend rather simply on a line of stats. Otherwise there'll be more information to handle. Magic alone will complicated enough because you'll have to handle individual "juice" totals for casting types and follow their specialized task resolution rules.

    Things like Loyalty stats are probably best handled as "invisible." Leave these things up to individual players to roleplay warlords, casters, heirs and kings. That way you can cram a lot of players on one side. Also, it'd be interesting if a team of players came up with their own theme and joke-references for their side (e.g. Faq is vaguely East-Asian themed). Some themes, of course, may simply be a result of whatever side they happened to be (e.g. the players decide that although they are vampires, they are mafia-themed vampires).

    This also simplifies task management for unit types that have complex abilities. A player that is roleplaying a caster is responsible for keeping track of their own juice totals and what their abilities can do.

    Special units that don't have a player "behind the wheel" must be treated like NPC's by the GM.
    Last edited by LurkerInPlayground; 2010-01-10 at 10:58 PM.

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    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: Erfworld game, a co-op perhaps?

    So, so true. As you said, the hard part will be the fact of keeping track of individual stats, such as juice. Another thing is that I do want to be slightly accurate. Meh.

    "Thirdly, get one of those dry-erase hexgrid maps and water soluble markers. Maybe some kind of software program to store relevant GM data."

    What are these?(I know the markers, but I have never seen dry erase hexgrid boards. Or maybe I do not understand clearly what you are talking about?

    "Anyway, I'd try to keep the unit lists fairly simple and make sure that "specials" are the exception, not the rule. A unit's particular uniqueness should depend rather simply on a line of stats. Otherwise there'll be more information to handle. Magic alone will complicated enough because you'll have to handle individual "juice" totals for casting types and follow their specialized task resolution rules."

    Oh yes. As there are really only 4 classes(stabber, archer, piker, and knight(unless there are others. I remember axemen, crossbowmen, and there was one more that I don't recall, but maybe those were special Marbit units?)). Magic will be hard, as not alot is known, although we can just make some stuff up.

    "Things like Loyalty stats are probably best handled as "invisible." Leave these things up to individual players to roleplay warlords, casters, heirs and kings. That way you can cram a lot of players on one side."
    Are you saying for a character, once popped, to maybe be "taken" over by a person?

    "Special units that don't have a player "behind the wheel" must be treated like NPC's by the GM."
    Yeah. Like wild units. Or tribes. I think thats what you were saying.

    "Overall, K.I.S.S."
    Knights in Stanely's Service?
    No, I am joking. I know what it means.

    "Depth should be an emergent property of play and shouldn't be mistaken for complexity in rules. "
    Indeed.

  13. - Top - End - #13

    Default Re: Erfworld game, a co-op perhaps?

    Ah. Well there are play mats that a lot of hobby stores will sell. It goes for about ~$20 and is popular amongst roleplayers.

    It looks like this:
    Spoiler
    Show

    It rolls-up rather nicely and the reverse side has a square-grid instead of a hexagonal one.

    There are also probably a lot of software floating about that wargamers and roleplayers use (typically for overworld movement).

    I don't really know a whole lot about the wargaming scene. But it seems like a great place to find ideas.

    Oh yes. As there are really only 4 classes(stabber, archer, piker, and knight(unless there are others. I remember axemen, crossbowmen, and there was one more that I don't recall, but maybe those were special Marbit units?)). Magic will be hard, as not alot is known, although we can just make some stuff up.
    Well, there are Heavies (e.g. various golems) and Siege units. Transylvito has bats, which double as free recon since their warlords are telepathically linked.

    The way I figure it, you can stat up "basic" units and have players come up with their fluff. The fluff doesn't affect stats.

    Then you should make the occasional side a wild curveball to keep things interesting. For example, a recent update explains that the Don has the best surveillance capabilities of any other king because of those bats.

    So while there are conventional strategies, a side might churn out a mystery-unit that throws a side for a loop.

    Jillian's initial reaction to the bats were that they were weak. Until Vinny explained how they worked, she was quite ready to underestimate their capabilities.

    It might be interesting to have two opposing sides (i.e. player teams) with wildly different tech trees.

    As for NPC's, I'm not just referring to natural allies but to casters, warlords and such which do not have players actively controlling them. Although I'm sure you could come up with a easy loyalty mechanism, my first instinct is to simply grok what I think is logical for a NPC would do rather than roll for their morale or loyalty or whatever.

    As for Erfworld canon, Faq and Transylvito seem like sides which are very air-oriented. Perhaps because they both live geographically in mountainous areas.
    Last edited by LurkerInPlayground; 2010-01-10 at 11:31 PM.

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: Erfworld game, a co-op perhaps?

    The mat looks awesome. Wow. Haven't seen anything like it. Yeah, I know one program, called GameTable, but I'm not too sure how well it would do.

    4 classes of basic infantry is what I meant. Then there is also cavalry.

    Yeah

    Twolls.

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    Ettin in the Playground
     
    The Dark Fiddler's Avatar

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    Default Re: Erfworld game, a co-op perhaps?

    Quote Originally Posted by Org View Post
    Well, Dark Fiddler. Would you wish to help? You seem fairly active.
    I might help with organizing or something, but I'm not much of a war-game person myself.

    Also; note the might.

    Quote Originally Posted by LurkerInPlayground View Post
    First off, being accurate to the source material is pointless. Being "true to the original" is overrated. Just make the game. Screw canon.
    But then it's not Erfworld. Or maybe InNameOnly
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  16. - Top - End - #16
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    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: Erfworld game, a co-op perhaps?

    That would be nice.

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    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: Erfworld game, a co-op perhaps?

    I made a post of this on the Erfworld forums. Letting them know, and asking for helpers.

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    Default Re: Erfworld game, a co-op perhaps?

    I think that by far the most daunting thing about a project like this is the amount of balance some elements will need to receive, and the decision as to how far to take the game, relative to the webcomic.

    Arkentools - leave them in, or take them out as overpowered destroyers of balance?
    Tri-mancer linkups - what each might be capable of accomplishing is in question, as well as what each should be capable of doing vis-a-vis balance.
    Unknown content - We know there's dance-fighting and we know a little about magic; there's more about magic that we don't know than what we do, and we're blissfully unaware of whether there're other forms of pseudo-combat (dozens, stand-up vs hecklers, freestyle rap, musical showdowns, etc)

    Also, I should point out that for most of us, it's a serious issue to gather sufficient gamer-geeks for D&D, let alone to represent every Person of Interest in an Erf-style wargame. If you're going to make something anyone will ever play, it has to allow for one person to control a side wholesale.

    Spoiler
    Show
    I do have an idea as to how loyalty could be handled under these circumstances and remain a mystery, but it's a bit complex and involves 'loyalty challenges' - face-down loyalty cards, die rolls for the check and a new loyalty card after each check, and 'permanent' effects to add + or - loyalty modifiers to friends/enemies/torture victims. For example, pay the bazillion schmuckers for an iron maiden, rack and everything, and you get a better chance to affect your prisoner's loyalty (with a certain number of successful checks needed to fully turn a character)
    Don't bother trying to appeal to my better nature; I don't have one.

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    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: Erfworld game, a co-op perhaps?

    My notes so far

    With any given hex, there is a 65% chance that it will be open, 10% that it will be water, 10% forest, 10% mountain, and 5% will be desert.

    In a water hex, there is a 90% chance that all hexes bordering it will be water, unless already designated as something else. From there, there is a 70% of the same, then 50%, then 35%, then 25%, then 15%, then 10%, 5%, 1%, 0%.

    In a mountain hex, there is a 75% chance that all hexes bordering it will be mountain, unless already designated as something else. It goes down to 60%, 40%, 30%, 20%, 10%, 3%, 0%.

    In a forest hex, there is an 80% chance that all bordering hexes will be forest, unless already designated as something else. It goes to 70%, 55%, 40%, 25%, 10%, 5%, 0%.

    70% of mountain hexes include tunnels. 30% of the hexes with tunnels have entrances to the surface. In any network of tunnels, at least 1/10 of the tunnel hexes must have an entrance. 20% of mountain hexes are high mountains, 50% are medium mountains, and 30% are low mountains.

    In a desert hex, there is a 75% chance all bordering hexes will be desert unless already designated as something else. It goes to 65%, 50%, 35%, 20%, 5%.

    75% of forest hexes are light forest. 25% are dense forest.

    In a cluster of water hexes, the middle 25% are deep water.

    Cities can only exist in open, low mountain, desert, or light forest hexes.

    Movement Penalties
    Open-None
    Shallow Water- 2 to Move, None to Water Capable
    Deep Water- Impassable, 2 to Water Capable
    Low Mountain- 6 to Move
    High Mountain- Impassable
    Light Forest- 2 to Move
    Dense Forest- 4 to Move
    Desert-3 to Move

    Commander: A unit with the leadership special.
    Infantry: A catch-all for humanoid, non-heavy units without the mount special.
    -Stabber Class: Balanced.
    -Piker Class: Bonus to combat against cavalry.
    -Archer Class: Bonus against flying units
    -Knight Class: Overall better.
    Cavalry: A catch-all for units with the mount special.
    Heavies: A catch-all for units with the heavy special. Can not, with some exceptions, enter tunnels or ride mounts.
    Fliers: A catch-all for units with the flight special.
    Unit types can be merged, for instance: A light unit without the mount special but with the flight special is an infantry flier.

    Non-combat specials (aka specials that are not limited to providing combat bonuses):
    Light:These units may walk in tuneels. All units have this unless stated that they have Heavy.
    Flight: Allows units to enter the airspace of cities. Flying units can only be engaged by other fliers or archers. Non-fliers can not engage fliers while in dense forest, unless they are forest-capable. Flight gives units a x2 bonus against all non-flier units.
    Tunnel-Figjting: Tunnel-Fighting gives units a x2 bonus while in a tunnel.
    Mountain-Capable: Allows units to enter low mountain hexes without penalties normally incurred by low mountain hexes and medium mountain hexes with half penalties normally incurred by medium mountains. Provides a x2 bonus while in mountain hexes.
    Forest-Capable: Allows units to enter dense forest hexes without penalties normally incurred by dense forest hexes and provides a x2 bonus while in light forest hexes.
    Water-Capable: Allows units to enter water hexes. Water-capable units can only be attacked by fliers, other water capable units, and archery units.
    Dive-Capable: Allows units to dive in deep water. Only Water-Capable units can have this special. While diving, units can only be engaged by other divers.
    Heavy: Heavies are incapable of riding mounts and entering tunnels, with some exceptions.
    Mount: Allows infantry units to ride the mount. While doing this, they share all non-combat specials with their mount, except for mount and heavy.
    Mining:Grants a +5 Bonus to the Mining Table.

    Combat specials:
    Leadership: Allows units to lead stacks.
    Archery: Allows use of ranged weapons without penalties.
    Dance-Fighting: Allows units to dance-fight when led by a dance-fighting commander.
    Breath Weapon: Allows units to use a breath weapon, such as a red dwagon's fire.
    Caster: Allows a unit to use magic. Caster type is chosen from this chart.

    Combat
    When you have a unit in one hex, it can charge into an adjacent hex, into combat with the enemy units there. Add together the unit's Combat, and Defense stats if they are in a stack. Apply multipliers, and then roll 2d6 for the Attackers and subtract the Enemies' Defense stat. They take that many hits. The Defender's Counter, but get a d6 bonus.

    Cities
    Capital City
    A Capital City is your largest city, and if you lose it, your side disbands. A Capital city follows the following chart for Schmucker making:

    Level Schmuckers
    1 50
    2 75
    3 125
    4 175
    5 250

    Capital Cities follow the following Chart for Unit Production
    Level Units(Turns)
    1 Stabber(3), Piker(5), Archer(5)
    2 Warlord(25), Knight(10)
    3 Heir(60)
    4
    5

    Level Amount of Units to Queue
    1 5
    2 10
    3 15
    4 20
    5 25

    Tamed Animals will have a Tier of their own.

    City
    Level Schmuckers
    1 10
    2 25
    3 50
    4 75
    5 100

    Level Units(Turns)
    1 Stabber(5), Piker(7), Archer(7)
    2 Warlord(35), Knight(15)
    3
    4
    5

    Level Amount of Units to Queue
    1 5
    2 5
    3 10
    4 10
    5 15

    You can build a City for 10000 Schmuckers. You can level it up for 1000 Schmuckers.

    You can upgrade a Capital for 2500.

    Hunting
    Hunting can only be done in Open Fields or Forests. For every unit that does it, roll for the following table.

    Hunting Table
    Roll Effect
    1/2 You find nothing, or it gets away from you.
    3/5 You are able to catch some small game. 2d6 Schmuckers.
    6/9 You are able to find some larger animals. 3d6 Schmuckers
    10 You hunt down "A Big One. However, it has a 50% chance of dealing d6 Hits to the unit. 5d6 Schmuckers

    For every 10 hunts in a turn, there is a 5% chance the animals disappear for a while. For every 5 turns after this happens, there is a 10% they return, increasing by 10% every 5 turns.

    Mining
    Can only be done in Tunnels.

    Mining Table
    Roll Effect
    1/20 You find some pebbles.
    21/40 You find a small gem. 1d6 Schmuckers
    41/60 You find a larger gem. 2d10 Schmuckers
    61/99 You find a perfect stone. 3d10 Schmuckers.
    100 Maybe an Artifact? Or a 4d10 Scmuckers.

    For every 10 mines in a turn, there is a 15% chance the gems disappear for a while. For every 5 turns after this happens, there is a 5% they return, increasing by 5% every 5 turns.

    Tribes
    Marbit
    Marbit Stabber
    Upkeep:3
    Movement:8
    Hits:2
    Combat:1
    Defense:1
    Special:Tunnel-Fighting, Miner

    Marbit Crossbowmen
    Upkeep:6
    Movement:8
    Hits:2
    Combat:1/2
    Defense:1
    Special:Ranged,Tunnel-Fighting, Miner

    Marbit Axemen
    Upkeep:10
    Movement:8
    Hits:2
    Combat:2
    Defense:1
    Special:Tunnel-Fighting, Miner

    Marbit Chief
    Upkeep:25
    Movement:8
    Hits:5
    Combat:2
    Defense:1
    Special:Tunnel-Fighting, Leadership

    Woodsy Elves
    Woodsy Archer
    Upkeep:12
    Movement:14
    Hits:3
    Combat:1/3
    Defense:2
    Special:Ranged, Forest Capable

    Gump
    Upkeep:35
    Movement:10
    Hits:12
    Combat:5
    Defense:5
    Special:Forest Capable, Heavy

    Woodsy Chief
    Upkeep:35
    Movement:14
    Hits:7
    Combat:2/3
    Defense:2
    Special:Ranged, Leadership, Forest Capable

    Shady Elves
    Shady Archer
    Upkeep:8
    Movement:14
    Hits:3
    Combat:1/2
    Defense:2
    Special:Ranged

    Shady Stabber
    Upkeep:10
    Hits:4
    Movement:14
    Combat:2
    Defense:2
    Special:

    Shady Chief
    Upkeep:30
    Movement:14
    Hits:7
    Combat:2
    Defense:2
    Special:Leadership

    Luckless Elves
    Luckless Archer
    Upkeep:6
    Movement:12
    Hits:2
    Combat:1/1
    Defense:2
    Special:Ranged, Luckless

    Luckless Stabber
    Upkeep:8
    Movement:12
    Hits:2
    Combat:2
    Defense:2
    Special:Luckless

    Luckless Chief
    Upkeep:25
    Movement:12
    Hits:6
    Combat:2
    Defense:2
    Special:Luckless

    Eager Elves
    Eager Stabber
    Upkeep:15
    Movement:15
    Hits:3
    Combat:3
    Defense:2

    Eager Chief
    Upkeep:35
    Movement:15
    Hits:7
    Combat:3
    Defense:2
    Special:Leadership

    Altruist Elves
    Altruist Nurse
    Upkeep:10
    Movement:12
    Hits:2
    Combat:--
    Defense:1
    Special:Heal

    Altruist Caster
    Upkeep:25
    Movement:12
    Hits:5
    Combat:--
    Defense:1
    Special:Heal, Leadership, Caster

    Tardy Elves
    Tardy Stabber
    Upkeep:7
    Hits:3
    Movement:9
    Combat:2
    Defense:2

    Tardy Archer
    Upkeep:9
    Hits:3
    Movement:9
    Combat:1/1
    Defense:2
    Special:Ranged

    Tardy Chief
    Upkeep:25
    Movement:9
    Hits:7
    Combat:2
    Defense:2
    Special:Leadership

    Gobwins
    Gobwin Stabber
    Upkeep:4
    Movement:9
    Hits:2
    Combat:2
    Defense:2
    Special:Tunnel Fighting

    Gobwin Piker
    Upkeep:6
    Movement:9
    Hits:2
    Combat:2
    Defense:2
    Special:Tunnel-Fighting, Piker

    Gobwin Archer
    Upkeep:6
    Movement:9
    Hits:2
    Combat:1/1
    Defense:2
    Special:Tunnel-Fighting, Ranged

    Gobwin Chief
    Upkeep:16
    Movement:9
    Hits:5
    Combat:2
    Defense:2
    Special:Tunnel-Fighting, Leadership

    Hobgobwins
    Hobgobwin Stabber
    Upkeep:12
    Movement:10
    Hits:4
    Combat:3
    Defense:2

    Hobgobiwn Knight
    Upkeep:18
    Movement:10
    Hits:5
    Combat:3
    Defense:3

    Hobgobwin Chief
    Upkeep:32
    Movement:10
    Hits:9
    Combat:3
    Defense:3
    Special:Leadership

    Giants
    Giant
    Upkeep:30
    Movement:10
    Hits:8
    Combat:4
    Defense:4
    Special:Heavy

    Giant Chief
    Upkeep:65
    Movement:10
    Hits:14
    Combat:5
    Defense:4
    Special:Heavy, Leadership


    Men
    Stabber
    Upkeep:10
    Movement:10
    Hits:3
    Combat:2
    Defense:2

    Piker
    Upkeep:12
    Movement:10
    Hits:3
    Combat:2
    Defense:2
    Special:Piker

    Archer
    Upkeep:12
    Movement:10
    Hits:3
    Combat:2/1
    Defense:2
    Special:Ranged

    Knight
    Upkeep:20
    Movement:10
    Hits:4
    Combat:3
    Defense:2

    Warlord
    Upkeep:30
    Movement:10
    Hits:7
    Combat:3
    Defense:2
    Special:Leadership

    Caster
    Upkeep:40
    Movement:10
    Hits:5
    Combat:1
    Defense:1




    Some guesses and stuff

  20. - Top - End - #20

    Default Re: Erfworld game, a co-op perhaps?

    Uhh. You're going to roll probabilities for each and every hex?

    Or can you actually write those instructions into a program? If not, you're better off just figuring out what seems logical and designing the map to make the game interesting.

  21. - Top - End - #21

    Default Re: Erfworld game, a co-op perhaps?

    Quote Originally Posted by fangthane View Post
    Arkentools - leave them in, or take them out as overpowered destroyers of balance?
    Tri-mancer linkups - what each might be capable of accomplishing is in question, as well as what each should be capable of doing vis-a-vis balance.
    These are plot specific McGuffins. Generally, I'd say leave them out.

    Also, I should point out that for most of us, it's a serious issue to gather sufficient gamer-geeks for D&D, let alone to represent every Person of Interest in an Erf-style wargame. If you're going to make something anyone will ever play, it has to allow for one person to control a side wholesale.
    I was thinking of a collaborative board game type of thing. Something that might be played on GitP, where gamer-geeks are abundant.

    Therefore, you get team collaboration RP.

    Spoiler
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    I do have an idea as to how loyalty could be handled under these circumstances and remain a mystery, but it's a bit complex and involves 'loyalty challenges' - face-down loyalty cards, die rolls for the check and a new loyalty card after each check, and 'permanent' effects to add + or - loyalty modifiers to friends/enemies/torture victims. For example, pay the bazillion schmuckers for an iron maiden, rack and everything, and you get a better chance to affect your prisoner's loyalty (with a certain number of successful checks needed to fully turn a character)
    Terrible idea. Too much extra rolling and rules referencing.

    Just treat people like NPC's with varying personalities or have players roleplay them.

    Erfworld implies that Loyalty is an "invisible" stat. Which suggests that it may not be as simple as scoring it as a single numeral. Nor is Loyalty immediately obvious. Wanda is perhaps a prime example of this fact.

    It also kills off a lot of the interesting roleplaying aspects since it no longer becomes a question of a character's motivation or general inclination?

    I'd rather come up with a quick rubric of "rules" for an NPC.

    For example:
    Johnny, the Level 1 Warlord
    - Johnny prefers to follow his orders to the letter.
    - He hates disobeying orders, even if he thinks it would directly benefit his side.
    - Johnny is friendly.
    - Johnny is loathe to lose his troops and values them as individuals.
    - He is vocal about any plans he views as unfair to the troops and will be discontented if asked to use troops as canon fodder.
    - Johnny is incorruptible. He does not like dishonesty and will not take bribes even if he thinks there would be no evident harm to his side.

    And so on . . .
    Last edited by LurkerInPlayground; 2010-01-20 at 05:37 PM.

  22. - Top - End - #22
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    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: Erfworld game, a co-op perhaps?

    Quote Originally Posted by LurkerInPlayground View Post
    Uhh. You're going to roll probabilities for each and every hex?

    Or can you actually write those instructions into a program? If not, you're better off just figuring out what seems logical and designing the map to make the game interesting.
    Its really fast if you think about it. It was only a suggestion from a forumgoer.

  23. - Top - End - #23
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    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: Erfworld game, a co-op perhaps?

    And I think Arkentools will be in, but the mod can make them and stuff. havent thought about them much.

    I am not sure about Caster Links.

    Have NO IDEA about loyalty. Needs to be simple.

  24. - Top - End - #24

    Default Re: Erfworld game, a co-op perhaps?

    Quote Originally Posted by Org View Post
    And I think Arkentools will be in, but the mod can make them and stuff. havent thought about them much.

    I am not sure about Caster Links.

    Have NO IDEA about loyalty. Needs to be simple.
    As for the former, what I was suggesting is that they are plot hooks.

    You weave in a narrative using those plot hooks. Attunement to the Tools are interpreted as a divine mandate to rule. The caster linkups are a kind of Chekov's Gun (i.e. the communication system set up by Stanley was one of the rare instances of brilliance on his part and Parson picked up on it) and are used to show how awesome Parson is in an Ender's Game sort of way.

    It doesn't have to be Arkentools. It can be an ancient repository that allows a side that captures it to pop casters. Or a tower that leads to the heavens. Or tablet with prophecies written on it. Or a mysterious magical rift in reality. Make up whatever motivates the story.

    As for Loyalty, I still like my way and I won't beat a dead horse.

  25. - Top - End - #25
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    Default Re: Erfworld game, a co-op perhaps?

    If you want it to be a genuine tactical board-based wargame, you need to start super super simple with units, preferably without involving chance. Chance often completely ruins wargames (see: Risk). Also, the way you have it now, attackers get 2d6 defenders 1d6 means that the defenders will almost always lose. On average the attackers get a +4 bonus to hits (7 to 3), which with even a single mulitplier becomes 8. this means that a basic marbit is about even with a freaking gump if it attacks. Which is wrong in my opinion. I don't really have a better idea at the moment, but it really does seem imbalanced at the moment.

  26. - Top - End - #26
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    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: Erfworld game, a co-op perhaps?

    True, but it means that Marbits are not good. At anything except for unstacked stuff or having SO MANY MULTIPLIERS.

    BAck to 1d6

  27. - Top - End - #27
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    Default Re: Erfworld game, a co-op perhaps?

    Un-led, un-stacked infantry should be bad against heavies.

    Maybe a +1 or so for attacking, but the way it was you needed to be overwhelmingly more powerful just to be able to stabd a chance to defend, and if that was the case you could then obliterate the enemy when it came to your turn, meaning that whoever goes first in an even match (which in a balanced game should happen moderately often) wins straight out.

    There probably needs to be a slight advantage to attacking just to discourage stalemates.

    Also, an idea. Perhaps there should be ratio of kills: losses depending on the margin of victory, to avoid lucky steamrollering. e.g: You win combat-defense roll off by one, meaning that there is a 3:2 ratio of your kills to your losses then if you win by 2 it's 2:1 then 4:1 etc. up to say a margin of 5 where you take no losses. (numbers subject to change)
    Last edited by Dr. Bath; 2010-01-22 at 07:44 AM.

  28. - Top - End - #28
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    Default Re: Erfworld game, a co-op perhaps?

    ...
    marbits will be bad against anything.

  29. - Top - End - #29

    Default Re: Erfworld game, a co-op perhaps?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Bath View Post
    Un-led, un-stacked infantry should be bad against heavies.

    Maybe a +1 or so for attacking, but the way it was you needed to be overwhelmingly more powerful just to be able to stabd a chance to defend, and if that was the case you could then obliterate the enemy when it came to your turn, meaning that whoever goes first in an even match (which in a balanced game should happen moderately often) wins straight out.

    There probably needs to be a slight advantage to attacking just to discourage stalemates.

    Also, an idea. Perhaps there should be ratio of kills: losses depending on the margin of victory, to avoid lucky steamrollering. e.g: You win combat-defense roll off by one, meaning that there is a 3:2 ratio of your kills to your losses then if you win by 2 it's 2:1 then 4:1 etc. up to say a margin of 5 where you take no losses. (numbers subject to change)
    Heavies should still die to infantry by attrition though and lose effectiveness as they lose units (fewer total attacks from a stack).

    It's just that they should just be able to tank a few hits and do some severe damage in the process. But they should get worn to a nub if they're thrown against infantry repeatedly without a chance to heal.
    Last edited by LurkerInPlayground; 2010-01-23 at 01:22 AM.

  30. - Top - End - #30
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    Default Re: Erfworld game, a co-op perhaps?

    Quote Originally Posted by Org View Post
    ...
    marbits will be bad against anything.
    No they'll be about even with other infantry, just slightly weaker (not sure why you've done that, they've always appeared to be roughly equal to Gobwins)

    Using the ratio method, but extending it both ways (both above and below the opponent's score) infantry could bring down heavies by attrition.

    Lets say some basic un-stacked gobwin(s) attack a Gump. Combat 2 (+1 for attacking lets say) against a Defense of 5. The Gump has just over a 50% chance of winning automatically and will on average win by 3, this makes it a 4:1 kill:hurt ratio for the gump (or a 1:4 ratio for the Gobwin). That would mean that you would need a lot of Gobwins attacking individually to kill it, but it would eventually die (maybe faster, maybe slower). And that's a lot of individual Gobwins, without a stack bonus, which is how gobwins are always going to be.

    Lets say you stack up all 11 Gobwins you can afford for the cost of a gump, with a +8 stack bonus they're gonna win like every time, so obviously the system needs work, but I think it could work. I'm not exactly sure how to work the ratio in properly though, as you'll end up with really high numbers for small combats, but ones that are far too small for big combats. Could be the ratio times the number of units in the winning stack? Dunno.

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