two questions. (3.5)

[Mystic Muse]

question 1. What book is the mystic theurge in/why is it considered a trap?

question 2. You know Dante's devil bringer (his blue arm) from Devil may cry 4? Is there any way to get me one of those in 3.5 or 4th edition?

[Drakevarg]

Mystic Theurge is from the DMG.

[Kylarra]

Mystic Theurge is also covered in OGL so it can be found here.

[Sinon]

Mystic Theugre is in the 3.5 DMG. You can also find in in the SRD.

It is often considered a trap because it looks powerful (arcane and divine casting! OMG!) but you end up loosing casting levels, and no matter how many spells you have, there are only so many actions in a day.

There are strategies, tricks, to mitigate the casting-level loss; some questionable, some ridiculous.

Still, for my money, MT in never going to be powerful in the same way as a straight wiz or cleric, but their unparalleled versatility is a different, quieter kind of power that shouldn't be dismissed.

Edit: flanked by ninjas

[Dusk Eclipse]

Mysthic Theurge is considered a trap because barring early enrty sheneanigans you are 3 levels behind both your casting levels.

Also while you have a ton of spell-slots but just one standard action to make use of them and also NO CLASS features.

Edit what's with me an ninjas today, this has been the nth post in the day that has been ninajed

[Mystic Muse]

so, you gain spells but you don't gain higher level spells? Or am I just not getting something?

[Kylarra]

One of the biggest problems with the theurge is that it's only a 10 level class. If it were 14 it might be plausibly more useful since you'd still end up with 9ths, sans tricks.

[oxinabox]

Mystic theurge is in the DMG.
You can't presige into it (without cheese) until your a lvl 3 wizard and a lvl 3 cleric.
so your casting spells as if you were 3 lvls lower that a equiviently levelled cleric or wizard.

Where as wizard (and to a lesser extent cleric) are SAD, mistic theurge is MAD.
By conbineing other things eg wizard/archivist, or maybe even favoured soul/bard (have never look at that before though...) . you can reduce the MAD some.
but your still behind on casting.
Acheivest gets almost all wizard spell anyway, though (if and only if he can get his hands on the divine scrolls)

Mystic theurge has a HUGE range of spells, and a HUGE number of spell slots (esp if combine with the right illuminum race that lets you combine totla number of slots IIRC)
But there are only so many spells you can cast in a day.


Don't get me wrong Mystic thuurge is an increbilby fun class to play, but weaker than a cleric, or wizard, of similar character lvl.


EDIT: Wow, my Ninja-fu is weak today, very weak

[Runestar]

so, you gain spells but you don't gain higher level spells? Or am I just not getting something?

You have to multiclass in both arcane and divine casting classes to qualify for it, so you will always be at least 3 lvs behind a straight caster. There is also the issue of MAD, as you need to focus on two casting stats.

Compare a MT with a pure wizard. A lv15 wizard can cast 8th lv spells, a wiz3/cleric3/MT9 can only cast 6th lv spells.

[Sinon]

(Festival of ninjas)

so, you gain spells but you don't gain higher level spells? Or am I just not getting something?

You gain casting levels.

Right before you enter the class,at character level 6 you’re a wizard3/cleric 3.

You cast 2nd-level cleric and 2nd-level divine spells.

Take a level of Theurge at character level 7 (wiz3, clr3, MT1); you cast spells like a 4th-level cleric and a 4th-level wizard.
Every character level you gain, both your wizard and cleric casting improve.

[Mystic Muse]

and considering nobody has mentioned it I'm guessing the Devil bringer is a no?

[Sinon]

Me? No clue what that is. Sorry.

[Kylarra]

Well... there are grafts you can get. I don't think you'll be getting the equivalent of a plot-device attached to your arm without dm fiat though. Closest simulation might be incarnum, but as I'm not familiar with either incarnum or DMC 4, I can't really give specifics.

[Eloel]

and considering nobody has mentioned it I'm guessing the Devil bringer is a no?

You can try Symbionts.
They're tiny creatures that merge with the body for some cost, and by all means are a different living being. I think there's a weapon one, a whip one, and a few others.

[Soranar]

if you want to cast arcane spells and divine spells

play a cleric and take the magic domain then use customize domain feat to take any spell you want (except 9th level)

or play a cleric arcanist variant for similar results, you end up stronger and a lot tougher than a mystic theurge

[FMArthur]

Can you describe the abilities of the Devil Bringer? It would be easier to find what you're looking for if we knew what you're looking for . I'm fairly sure that you'll find it as a Psychic Warrior power or series of powers, going by what little I've seen of it.

edit: Also, Mystic Theurge isn't a trap from a divine caster's perspective when you do early entry, using the Precocious Apprentice feat if you are a wizard, or Versatile Spellcaster (and Heighten Spell if need be) if you are a spontanous caster. Then you only lose one divine caster level for around 11 levels of arcane casting.

[Mystic Muse]

It's a laserlike blue gauntlet that replaces Dante's right arm. It's special ability is it summons a giant size version of the arm granting probably 20 foot reach and he either pulls his enemy towards him , him towards the enemy or tosses it like a cheap doll. (he usually does the throwing and pulling with medium sized enemy.) It can also be used as a grappling hook.

the other abilities wouldn't work in a normal D&D game.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

and considering nobody has mentioned it I'm guessing the Devil bringer is a no?

There is a way to get it in D&D. Whether that way is balanced, affordable, allowed by the DM, and requires less than 3 books I can't tell you since I never played the game. What's it do?

And MT is only a trap if you enter it as something other than a Wizard 1(PA, FS)/Archivist 1 with Southern Magician. Still runs out of levels when you hit ECL 12, but there are other tricks to continue it.

[FMArthur]

Hmmm... that does sound tricky. Psychic Warrior can get you a claw and increase your size for reach... but it can also fuse your arm with a weapon, which might be better since I think there was some exotic reach weapon that does grappling at a distance, but I can't think of the name.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Hmmm... that does sound tricky. Psychic Warrior can get you a claw and increase your size for reach... but it can also fuse your arm with a weapon, which might be better since I think there was some exotic reach weapon that does grappling at a distance, but I can't think of the name.

There's one called Scorpion something in Sandstorm and the mancatcher in BoED. IIRC, since I don't pay much attention to either of those weapons. There's also the Harpoon from Frostburn, which may be a better fit.

[Mystic Muse]

Scorpion tail whip? I need to get me one of those. 1d43 damage for 75 gp? yes please.

Yeah, I know it's probably a misprint. I can dream can't I?

[sonofzeal]

Scorpion tail whip? I need to get me one of those. 1d43 damage for 75 gp? yes please.

Yeah, I know it's probably a misprint. I can dream can't I?

Have fun finding a d43 at your local gaming store, though.

For best result, combine with a few levels of Vigilante, for 33 3rd level spells a day.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Scorpion tail whip? I need to get me one of those. 1d43 damage for 75 gp? yes please.

Yeah, I know it's probably a misprint. I can dream can't I?

It's actually not, WotC was trying to encourage people buying their rare collectible d43s, 2 for just $4,999.

[Mystic Muse]

It's actually not, WotC was trying to encourage people buying their rare collectible d43s, 2 for just $4,999.

ah yes I see.

What about their D 33s for small scorpion tail whips?(yes it says that in my copy too)

[sonofzeal]

ah yes I see.

What about their D 33s for small scorpion tail whips?(yes it says that in my copy too)

They stopped making those after a tragic accident involving a can opener and a juvenile emu. The only remaining replicas are all stored in private collections, although you can occasionally find one at auction.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

It's a laserlike blue gauntlet that replaces Dante's right arm. It's special ability is it summons a giant size version of the arm granting probably 20 foot reach and he either pulls his enemy towards him , him towards the enemy or tosses it like a cheap doll. (he usually does the throwing and pulling with medium sized enemy.) It can also be used as a grappling hook.

the other abilities wouldn't work in a normal D&D game.

The closest I can think of is a dip in Warlock for Eldritch Glaive. It's not perfect, but it can do trip attacks from 10'.

[Mystic Muse]

okay. last question.

are there rules for a ring of jumping +20 somewhere? Or is that a custom item?

[Sinfire Titan]

1: Ninja'ed, so don't care.

2: It isn't Dante who has the Devil Bringer, it's Nero. Master of the Unseen Hand (CArc) can get you a similar ability (ranged grapple, moving things, etc).

[Mystic Muse]

sorry. my mistake. haven't played it in a while.

[valadil]

so, you gain spells but you don't gain higher level spells? Or am I just not getting something?

Barring shenanigans you need to be 3wiz/3clr to start. Then you take 10 levels of it. At level 16 you're effectively a 13 wiz and 13clr. So you're casting level 7 spells tops and the straight caster is casting level 8s. Resume advancing a level in either class and you're still casting 7th level spells, but the straight caster has moved on to 9s. But you won't get those until you're 7wiz, 3 clr, 10mt (or swap wiz with clr as needed). And even then your cleric spells are still stuck at 7.

What's more is that even though you have both sets of spells you can only cast one spell per turn. You're not playing a wiz and a cleric, you're playing a wiz or a cleric, choosing which to act as each turn. Have you ever seen a wizard with nothing to do in a combat, where he really wishes he had some cure light wounds to pass out but instead he sits there useless? I didn't think so.