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  1. - Top - End - #31
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    Dallas-Dakota's Avatar

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    Default Re: Conworlding

    Echo, can be.

    I like elves and dwarves sometimes, but they shouldn't be present that much. Instead of MMO's and such, which have them around every corner.

    Yup, fantasy clockpunk+alchemypunk setting sounds pretty good.

    Setting: Fantasy -clock+alchemypunk.
    Tech advancement? medieval in some places and early rennescainse(screwed up spelling. >< correct please?)?

    Races(we'l do flora+fauna after that, I suppose): Homemade/brewed.
    Gnomes?
    Halflings?
    Orcs?
    Goblins?
    Dwarves???

    More suggestions always welcome?
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  2. - Top - End - #32
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    Default Re: Conworlding

    It's not a campaign, so you don't need to say homebrew. Even just humans will do for a proper world. After all, even real life humans have many different interesting culture, and properly done can be far more interesting than Elves and Dwarfs gimmicks (and stereotypes).

  3. - Top - End - #33
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    Default Re: Conworlding

    Maybe have a second race that oppose/are in a war/cold war state with the humans, while still being every bit as varied as the humans (though maybe in different ways)? Sort of like the TOS Klingons, before they got the 'techno Viking' hat stuck on them. Still a fully varied race, with all sorts of different cultures and subcultures... just not human.
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  4. - Top - End - #34
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    I'm always in favor of excluding humans altogether. In nearly every fantasy world, humans are the most numerous, most varied, and most significant. I'm tired of it. So either no humans, or very few. Also, I support fantasy with a slight tech angle, as long as that doesn't mean low magic. I like magic.

    Also, for elves and dwarves, we don't necessarily have to exclude them, just make them different enough. Especially with dwarves. They live in great mountain halls, their write with ancient norse runes, they are master blacksmiths, they prefer axes and hammers, they are all alcoholics, they have a beard fetish, they all speak with a Scottish accent... Most, if not all of this is true in nearly every setting. Why not have them live on mountains, be expert engineers, wield swords and spears, and talk with a British accent?
    Note: that was just an example. Although British dwarves is a fun idea...

  5. - Top - End - #35
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    Default Re: Conworlding

    Making the humans few in number, holding onto a certain strategic point while being in war?

    Xavius: Nah. Just take some elements of dwarves and think up our own.(with more thought then swords/spears+british accents. though) For example dwarf size just doesn't work very well with spears.

    Also if we're doing more then one race, make it more then 2. Otherwise it'l just seems like a vs. which I really wouldn't prefer.
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  6. - Top - End - #36
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    Default Re: Conworlding

    Pikes? Dwarf phalanxes would be kickass. Though I've always been partial to Southern Dwarves myself.
    "Weeeell, wouldya lookit that. That's some maaaghty faine gold nuggets ya got thar pardner."

    @^: The thing is, the more sentient races you get, the more competition for space, and the bigger your world has to be to reasonably fit them all in. We did a reasonably good job of killing off all our competitors, who's to say it wouldn't happen elsewhere? Maybe there were treehugging elves and goldmining dwarves in Fantasyland. The humans just killed them all.
    Last edited by Ashen Lilies; 2010-01-18 at 06:37 AM.
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  7. - Top - End - #37
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    Yes, dwarf phalanxes would be awesome.

    Dwarf sparta. o.0 Dominating silly humans for food. 0.o
    Hmmm nah.

    KK: True, but then again, we only had the neanderthaler as competition, which was killed mainly by climate.(And otherwise we would have flourished in everywhere but Europe(where they were based when they died out))

    It could be that other races that just aren't as aggro and fast-breeding as humans.

    Also it could be that humans killed all the gnomes and stole their clockwork technology!
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  8. - Top - End - #38
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    Dwarf with spears actually makes sense, because they have a low centre of gravity as well as a need to compensate for the lack of reach. Spears are also easy to make and makes a lot more sense than axes most of the time. Not that I am in favor of dwarfs though.

    Unfortunately, with no humans you don't have something to relate to. Without humans, inevitable it's really easy to have another race with human syndromes, just with perhaps blue skin or pointy ears.

    Of course, you can make a few other viable dominant races, but I am really against any form of stereotypical races. You see, most new races usually look like humans but with:
    1. Different skin colour not within our usual pigment range
    2. Different ears
    3. Different size and colour of eyes
    4. Has a different nose
    5. Has a lot more hair than humans, and different colours
    6. Body shapes that are fatter, taller, shorter, or thinner
    7. Has a tail, or teeth that sticks out, maybe a long tongue
    8. Is more homogeneous than humans, both physical and mental
    9. Something they are really good at

    But of course, they still have 1 head, 2 limbs they walk on, and use their hands to do work. Their genitals are still between their legs. There's always two sexes. Two eyes, a nose, two ears, and a mouth. There's breasts for females, and penises for males. In short, human, but severely mutated. What's the point of a new race then, when significant cultural attributes can set them apart anyways? The gimmicks of a "new" race always perturbed me. You can always have humans that are tree huggers and good at hunting, using the bow, and live very long due to a combination of diet and some mystical forces. You can always have humans that live inside the mountain, and good at mining and smithing. They can be stunted because of lack of light. You can have humans that do everything gnomes do (good at clockwork, etc) but just aren't small creatures. You can also have humans that are brutish, big, and have a tribal government, and you have your orcs.

    Magic always get out of hand, so I am in favor of low magic. Really low magic, at some form of mystical angle at best. The type where you have questionably hazy seers, beast tamers and minor forms of psychics, rather than meteor swarms, mass heals and teleports. If you want healing magic, the best that may exist may be augmenting viable herbal medicines with some sort of mystical "healer's touch" - but this is more attributed to sensible medical practice than actual magic. Remember, western renaissance culture involves practice such as the humour theory and blood letting, so some more radical form of treatment may very well be magic to them. I also like it if the magic is somehow explained, rather than "it just exists".

    Also, slapping on a race with x real life culture is just weak. You might as well make them human with those characteristics. Changing where they live, how they talk, and their usual profession is not changing their culture. Culture is not those things, but how people think, how people view life, and how they form their societies. Their current attributes should justify by their surroundings and traditions.

  9. - Top - End - #39
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Nah, no humans. The list that Dallas-Dakota put is nice, except for orcs, they're all shorter than the average human, so that could define some qualities of the world.

    Alchemy is nice, plus can be used for attack, for healing, or for all kind of effects, so the masters of that are looked at with some weird mix of respect and a watchful eye.

    But what do I know? I don't tend to do this sort of things.
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  10. - Top - End - #40
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    Echowinds(ps. why did you stop drawing your cool art? I remember you had a cult devoted to you and your art...): Why do I get the feeling you don't like humanoids(except humans) at all?

    I suppose we could have non-humanoids.
    You just want the culture of different races such as orcs, dwarves, gnomes etc. and slapstick them onto humans.(Which could be possible but...)

    I second the low magic. Rather Tolkien-esque, magic-level, I suppose.
    With healers/medicine men using medicine and (science-)knowledge to properly apply things for healing. Possibly also chanting, since some sciences are shunned?

    This would also make sense that if you'd get into studying one of the higher sciences(divided into the branches of Clock and Alchemy) you couldn't really do other sciences as they are possibly shunned? ??

    This could be just one culture and/or race, or perhaps the entire setting?

    Ref: Possibly, but more experimenting, combat and general purposes then healing(though alchemy would include life-extending things?) That would be better, I think.
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  11. - Top - End - #41
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    Default Re: Conworlding

    Echowinds has a point. That's why I'm saying that if we DO add extra races, it should only be one or two, so we can have varied cultures and sub-culture for them, as opposed to them simply being races of hats. I further propose that any other races be sufficiently different that their cultures be DISTINCT from human cultures. Elves are treehugging hippies? Humans can do that. Dwarves are geophilliac miners? Humans can do that as well. Mermen, on the other hand? With mermen you can have a whole host of culture that CAN'T simply be slapped onto humans, on account of humans not living underwater. They'd be a whole other race, as opposed to humans with funny hats.
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  12. - Top - End - #42
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    Ofcourse my fondness of dwarves says we should have them, but I realize your point.

    3 races would probably be best.

    KK, you have a point, but say with such big differences, I mean we do want it to be possible for them to interact? Even if vaguely?
    You can't have that if you make them TOO different.


    We could make dwarves semi-allergic to sunlight and allergic to all the pollen * stuffs in the outside/surface air? Thus restricting them to in/on their mountains/the rare underground dwellings.
    Or say gnomes who live in air-cities and zeppelins because their lungs can't breathe in the thick surface-air.(The higher you are, the thinner(less oxygen in the air) air is.) Or something.

    But eh. I see two voices(Echo and KK) saying that we should have humans+ possibly one or two non-humanoid races? So my voice probably doesn't carry that much....
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  13. - Top - End - #43
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    Default Re: Conworlding

    Of course they'd have to have some common ground or way of interacting. Otherwise, how do they know the other race is sentient at all? It should just be... different. Like talking with a total foreigner, except worse. At least with a foreigner the other dude is human, with human experiences.
    Why should a merman understand the importance of fire? They live underwater, after all. Would a lizardman not view humans as gluttonous, for eating as many as three times a day? And humans view lizardmen as lazy, for they spend their evenings and mornings doing nothing but bask. These aren't even particularly good examples, since lizard and fish and ape could eventually learn of steam, or of hot and cold bloodedness. I'm sure, if I put a little more thought and weren't half asleep, I could find an aspect of one race the other would find truly baffling.
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  14. - Top - End - #44
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    Default Re: Conworlding

    Dwarf mating.

    More like 'gross' or 'disturbing' to most humans, I suppose.

    But eh, let's try to settle on the amount of sentient (reasonably advanced, for them) races. 3?

    Anyway, you kinda ignored my other point.
    Also those gnomes(And they all wear hats, to protect them from the sun) I thought of sound good.(Also get airships/zeppelins, this way)
    Last edited by Dallas-Dakota; 2010-01-18 at 10:20 AM.
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  15. - Top - End - #45
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    Default Re: Conworlding

    I see your 'dwarf mating' and raise you 'coupling'. Period. In the words of a merman/fishman/bivalveman: "Wait, you actually stick your *blank* inside her *blank*? Eeeew.
    *continues spraying the surrounding ocean with sperm*

    Also, I know not of this other point of which you speak.

    Also, how would such gnomes evolve. Mountains? It's not like those zepellins could have been around forever.
    Last edited by Ashen Lilies; 2010-01-18 at 10:34 AM.
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  16. - Top - End - #46
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    Default Re: Conworlding

    Deleted - We're worldbuilding, not doing a Gross contest, hmmk?

    Yus, mountains most likely.

    Then possibly being sieged a long time by one of the other two races and then deciding to go fully into the air.


    Anyway: Probably 3 races then?
    Start getting real suggestions in and ideas on how to improve them?
    Last edited by Dallas-Dakota; 2010-01-18 at 04:43 PM.
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  17. - Top - End - #47
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    Default Re: Conworlding

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Xavius View Post
    they all speak with a Scottish accent... Why not have them ... talk with a British accent?
    Pet peeve: Scotland is part of Britain, therefore a Scottish accent is a British accent.

    This sounds like fun, too, so I'd like to get involved. Just throw me a community or a race or something and I'll go and amuse myself in the corner and probably make something okay out of it.
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  18. - Top - End - #48
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    @dallas: I have too many time consuming hobbies. Also I have an inferior complex in art.

    I am not against humanoids at all. I just want them to be more than just stereotyped human with some minor cosmetic change. A sky-faring gnome culture may be doable, but a further dissemination of society must be discussed to make sure they aren't simply flying humans with awesome engineering skills. :) Also, there's barely any food up in the mountains. What do the gnomes eat? Without a food source the gnomes cannot have a large population. There fertility rate will naturally be low. How can they combat population decline? How did they expanded in the first place? What can do against marauding humans seeking their technology?

    The sieging idea doesn't make sense, unless the other races also live on the mountains. You see, humans aren't terribly interested in living high up there when they already got the low areas, and the sea people that is suggested won't even have contact with these gnomes, much less fight against them. No contact = no point having additional races.

    What I propose is floating islands. Yes, floating islands. How do they float? Perhaps by a naturally occurring reaction that creates an anti-gravitational field. Or just justified by some form of world magical force that allows for floating islands. Whatever the case, this can be utilized by one of the proposed race to reach for the skies. Why are they sought after? Perhaps the said islands have a lot of these minerals that allow for easy flying, and better than the clockwork gizmo that are used initially. They may also have good land for colonization, and coupled with religion may be good excuse for conflict. "Won't humans have a hard time living up there, what with the wind, cold temperature and thin air?" Floating islands don't need to be that high up. A kilometre off the ground works well already. Where do they find the catalyst needed to make these odd alchemy-based anti-grav engines? Perhaps in the sea, where the sea people live.

    Now I don't know how to make people fight with sea people if the mer people live undersea and humans live on land. There's simply no conflict of interest, and pollution's far from a problem in the proposed era. A lot of the stuff the humans make won't work in sea, and vice versa. I think an amphibious culture may work better in this case. Some sort of aqua-based race may be effective, because the sea can support a hypothetical vibrant culture. Agriculture and construction is doable. Metal working is a little difficult in the sea though, seeing as you can't really start a fire, besides volcanic vents. The water next to these vents are hot though, so it's not like creatures not regularly living next to them can survive.

  19. - Top - End - #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dogmantra View Post
    Pet peeve: Scotland is part of Britain, therefore a Scottish accent is a British accent.
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  20. - Top - End - #50
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    So, Land race, Air race, and Water race? Maybe the world has hybrid zones where two or all three races can live somewhere, which are used as neutral zones in order to contact/trade.
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  21. - Top - End - #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Echowinds View Post
    @dallas: I have too many time consuming hobbies. Also I have an inferior complex in art.
    First excuse, good. Second excuse: You had a friggen' cult devoted to your art.
    Quote Originally Posted by Echowinds View Post
    I am not against humanoids at all. I just want them to be more than just stereotyped human with some minor cosmetic change. A sky-faring gnome culture may be doable, but a further dissemination of society must be discussed to make sure they aren't simply flying humans with awesome engineering skills. :)
    Entirely seconded!
    It'l just mean that we'l have to work them out more. Which would be a good idea anyway.
    Quote Originally Posted by Echowinds View Post
    Also, there's barely any food up in the mountains. What do the gnomes eat? Without a food source the gnomes cannot have a large population. There fertility rate will naturally be low. How can they combat population decline? How did they expanded in the first place? What can do against marauding humans seeking their technology?
    The sieging idea doesn't make sense, unless the other races also live on the mountains. You see, humans aren't terribly interested in living high up there when they already got the low areas, and the sea people that is suggested won't even have contact with these gnomes, much less fight against them. No contact = no point having additional races.
    I see your point entirely, it was just a quick idea thrown out there.
    Also technology, possibly. Humans can be rather greedy and such.
    Trying to take over gnome cities/capturing scientists for their technology.
    I'm not saying this should be canon, I'm throwing a idea out there.

    Quote Originally Posted by Echowinds View Post
    What I propose is floating islands. Yes, floating islands. How do they float? Perhaps by a naturally occurring reaction that creates an anti-gravitational field. Or just justified by some form of world magical force that allows for floating islands. Whatever the case, this can be utilized by one of the proposed race to reach for the skies. Why are they sought after? Perhaps the said islands have a lot of these minerals that allow for easy flying, and better than the clockwork gizmo that are used initially. They may also have good land for colonization, and coupled with religion may be good excuse for conflict. "Won't humans have a hard time living up there, what with the wind, cold temperature and thin air?" Floating islands don't need to be that high up. A kilometre off the ground works well already. Where do they find the catalyst needed to make these odd alchemy-based anti-grav engines? Perhaps in the sea, where the sea people live.
    It sounds like a good, though funky idea.
    As your point with ''humans with cosmetic changes'' was, I say that anti-gravity, especially islands is very powerfull. We'd need to think it out more. I'm not saying no to it, I'm just saying we need to work it out more and see how it would work/be/end up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Echowinds View Post
    Now I don't know how to make people fight with sea people if the mer people live undersea and humans live on land. There's simply no conflict of interest, and pollution's far from a problem in the proposed era. A lot of the stuff the humans make won't work in sea, and vice versa. I think an amphibious culture may work better in this case. Some sort of aqua-based race may be effective, because the sea can support a hypothetical vibrant culture. Agriculture and construction is doable. Metal working is a little difficult in the sea though, seeing as you can't really start a fire, besides volcanic vents. The water next to these vents are hot though, so it's not like creatures not regularly living next to them can survive.
    Yes, making them amphibious might be better. Also possibly cold-blooded(reptiles)
    So that they need to live near shorelines(Specific areas in the neighbourhood of volcanic vents(though not that close).
    Being near the warm water, making them live in the fishing grounds of humans?

    Ref: Eh? A combination of land, water and air? I'm not quite getting you.
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  22. - Top - End - #52
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    Default Re: Conworlding

    go the other way perhaps? not gnomes, but giants? tall, broad beings that are matched in height only by the biggest beings... giants can be clever, infact, they would have bigger brains, so why not attribute their technology to that?

    of course, this causes the issue of weight, making the air ships etc massive to accomadate the weight...

    i just think that giants get thrown to the sidelines all to often, if they appear in a setting they are stupid beings that terrorize little people by stamping on them.

    of course, im just throwing ideas into the hat.
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    I'm back! Looks like it's all coming together slowly. I like the ideas so far.

    Dogmantra: Yes, but technically Scotland is the northern part and England is the Southern part, right?

    Echowinds: Anti-Gravitational Field... might be a bit to futuristic. How about a large amount of lighter-than-air gases within the rock? Of course this would mean a large proportion of the islands would be said gas, but it does fit nicely with the Alchemypunk part of the world.

    Lord Xavius: ALBA DU BRA! ALBA DU BRA! ALBA DU BRA!

    ref: Maybe... Might not work with warring races, since they would detest each other, so there wouldn't be many hybrids. But since if we talk about that we'll go off-topic again, that's all I'll say.

    littlebottom: Giants, maybe. Gnome, I think, fit the part better in my opinion (which are usually backed by insane troll logic. ), but we'll see.

    Everyone: The Three Races idea seems good. Makes the planet exotic enough, but not too exotic. Once we get too exotic, it starts getting rediculous.

    Also, before anyone makes the mistake. Races and Cultures are two different things.

    When we mention three races, we could easily get confused with cultures, since they can be interchangeable. Another thing is that, while we do have three races, we can have many ethnicities in that race.

    What I mean is, look at the human race. We call the species a race, but within that, we have Caucasian, African, Semitic, Indo, East Asian, Native American, Aboriginal Australian, and so on. We can then branch that down even further. Anglo-Saxon, Celtic, Frankish, Hispanic, Italian, Greek, East Slavic, some other European Races, Semetic, North African, South African, Multiple Indian Races, Southeast Asian, Chinese, Japanese, Ainu, Mongolian, Aboriginal Australian, Polynesian, Micronesian, Central Asian...

    See what I'm getting here? (I'm not sure some of those are technically races, but. )

    All I'm saying is, while we only have three races, we use the word culture as the word for literal races. Also, that we can have different ethnic groups of each of the three races. (I'd really like to see different ethnicities for the amphibious people. )

    By the way, I want to thank all of you guys for helping. The conworld is making great progress at this rate. I only hope we can-- No, wait, if I say it, it'll jinx us.

    So, right now, we got: Clockpunk/Alchemypunk Fantasy with Steampunk elements. There are three intelligent races, humans, gnomes, and the sea-people. We have the gnomes living in higher areas or on floating islands in the sky. Human live on land, and the sea-people live in the coast, being amphibious in nature. Anyone have any objections they'd like to point out now?

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  24. - Top - End - #54
    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: Conworlding

    Race doesn't exist scientifically. We are all humans, but society decides to slap on a term called "race" base on people's physical appearance. Some people use the term ethnic group interchangeably.

    Thus, the word "culture" is plenty enough to say there are different people in one particular species. And indeed, besides humans there should be different sub-cultures within the other species.

    Personally, not too fond of gnomes, but since dallas likes them, by all means. I mean, how the heck do they survive prior to technological invention? Humans are plenty weak enough biologically, so I can't imagine how tiny people can survive that well on a mountain. Even hawks and eagles may proof dangerous to a gnome.

  25. - Top - End - #55
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    Default Re: Conworlding

    Personally, I'd see some conflict between humans and sea-people for coastal and shallow water. While some would live in the open ocean, where only large sea-faring vessels would go, but I would see the most vibrant and densely populated areas at coasts, especially coral reefs. And yes, they would have to be amphibious to some extent. If they can't at least breath air, then there's pretty much no communication at all, barring sign language or something.
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  26. - Top - End - #56
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    Default Re: Conworlding

    Quote Originally Posted by Echowinds View Post
    Personally, not too fond of gnomes, but since dallas likes them, by all means. I mean, how the heck do they survive prior to technological invention? Humans are plenty weak enough biologically, so I can't imagine how tiny people can survive that well on a mountain. Even hawks and eagles may proof dangerous to a gnome.
    I like them, but I don't love them. I'd rather have dwarves, but yeah.

    By being quick, nimble, much dexterity. Using more ranged weaposn for self defense.
    Being able to carve homes into the mountains or such.

    There is such a thing as too much evolution-backtracking. >.>

    Races/Cultures: They are not the same, yes. We are not making just three ''groups''. There will be subcultures etc. Especially among the humans?


    Hybrids: Yeah, not many of them. They're very rare.

    KK: Said that in my previous post, last paragraph. So that's semi-agreed on then?

    LittleBottom: They can be clever, but being big doesn't mean that you get bigger brains. And issues with weight and such as you said yourself.

    Gnomes are rather light in that perspective, thus would be better for flying/gliding and such.
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  27. - Top - End - #57
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    ref's Avatar

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    Default Re: Conworlding

    It's OK with the rarity of hybrids. After all, if they were common, we would actually have humans, mermen, gnomes, half-mermen, half-gnomes, sea gnomes, and triple breeds, and that's not what we want.

    Main conflict is for the coastal zones, but also for high points if there are different human cultures warring among themselves, as those points are strategical and often natural borders. The sea race and air race seem to have a lot less friction, but we need to envision how (if somehow) they contact with each other.

    I also think that the other two races also need subcultures, so instead of going the usual path of "gnomes, mermen, and fifty human races", I'd rather split them somehow with the races having a smaller number of cultures and fairly equivalent (emphasis on fairly, one race can have just two and another, say, five or six, but it's not time yet to be specific).
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  28. - Top - End - #58
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    Default Re: Conworlding

    I'd be interested in doing concept art sketches for this if we ever get that far. God knows I need the practice...

    Interesting project so far, and yes! No elves! Let's invent a new species never before seen in fantasy.

    I draw pictures:


    (haven't been updated in a while and you can read the comic here)

  29. - Top - End - #59
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    Default Re: Conworlding

    I have some stuff that may be of interest to you:

    http://brilliantgameologists.com/boa...p?topic=3995.0
    Dwarves are just a pseudo-Roman nation of humans with a lot of inaccurate stories told about them.
    Elves are overgrown psychic kids with plants living inside their bodies. And they never had any parents to tell them not to be rude. They can't reproduce, so they steal kids to turn into more elves.
    Also demons.

    http://brilliantgameologists.com/boa...p?topic=2159.0
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    Last edited by Prime32; 2010-01-19 at 09:49 AM.

  30. - Top - End - #60
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    Default Re: Conworlding

    Quote Originally Posted by Prime32 View Post
    Dwarves are just a pseudo-Roman nation of humans with a lot of inaccurate stories told about them.
    I really like this idea. Some kind of tales, perhaps to do with the sea-people, making them out to be rather different from what they actually are.
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