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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Post Overall thoughts? Optimizing Soulknife as RAW as possible.

    Yup. I argue the belief that the Soulknife is a terrible class. This one Prestiges into Illumine Soul[My DM running an undead heavy campaign]. The link to my build is here:

    http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Soulknife_Undead_Hunter

    Yes... I built a wiki page just for the one class, and am trying as RAW as possible. I know there's no such thing as 100% RAW, being minor discrepancies in interpretation, but I try.

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    Default Re: Overall thoughts? Optimizing Soulknife as RAW as possible.

    I too think the soulknife needs less tweaking than most, but this is probably gonna be received as just-this-side-of troll-bait. Also expect many responses to contain variations on the phrases "a class shouldn't need to prestige to X" and "20 levels of a 'I have a magic weapon'" and "psywar does it better with the acf from the minds eye article" The fact that the monk also "sucks" will be mentioned at least once, not including this post.
    Last edited by Kelb_Panthera; 2010-01-18 at 06:32 AM.

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    Default Re: Overall thoughts? Optimizing Soulknife as RAW as possible.

    Well, my character's back story involves home and family being harassed by undead. He gains an ability to wield a weapon forged of his mind, and later on in his life[adventuring] learns to tap into pure positive energy to destroy the undead. I would like people's feedback on my projected character build, and how feasible it is.
    Last edited by Karen Lynn; 2010-01-18 at 07:11 AM.

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    Default Re: Overall thoughts? Optimizing Soulknife as RAW as possible.

    First, advice for your build:

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    You are starved for skill points, especially since you're taking Know (religion) cross-class to enter Illumine Soul. Also note that your last two levels are totally dead - they grant nothing of value. Finally, you have power points (like all soulknives) but they are completely useless.

    Two psychic warrior levels near the beginning of your build will solve all three problems. You can take Able Learner as your human feat (making all knowledge skills class skills) and still take Autonomous as your first Psywar bonus feat if you want it. You can also pick a race other than human if you want more power points - Synad has favored class (any), Xephs have favored class (Soulknife) and Half-Giants have favored class (Psywar) if your DM enforces XP penalties. If you start with 14 Wisdom, you'll gain two bonus power points, bringing your total to 4 before racial bonuses. And you'll have two powers known to spend your power points on - good choices include Hustle (gives you more move actions to recharge your mind blade) and Vigor (5 bonus HP/pp spent.) Practiced Manifester will up the durations of both powers after level 6. Finally, you get medium and heavy armor proficiency, as well as martial weapon proficiency, for free - all without losing a single point of BAB.

    Take the Soulknife ACF from Mind's Eye here - it will trade Wild Talent for Hidden Talent, which is strictly better as it actually gives you another power with the 2 PP - from ANY class list. Now you can pick up Stygian Discernment (CPsi) which fits your character concept like a glove - detect undead and negative energy auras nearby.


    General commentary:

    Illumine souls do not fix the soulknife, because they don't address the soulknife's most key problems. You still need to waste move actions recharging your psychic strike, which means no full attack. PS damage only gets applied to one hit, so full attacks don't add much effectiveness anyway. They are geared towards being stealthy characters (no medium or heavy armor prof, Speed of Thought etc.) but receive no support for doing so (very poor skill points, no benefit to striking unaware.) They still have power points for no discernible reason. They still have 3/4 BAB.

    The problem with Illumine Souls is their narrow focus. They shine (no pun intended) against undead, but are are not very useful against any other enemy type.

    Illumine Souls do have their advantages in an undead-heavy campaign. Both their Death Ward and Positive Energy Flare abilities are at-will by RAW, and their Death Ward kicks in whenever you expend your psionic focus for any reason. It lasts 10 rounds, so by judiciously reacquiring and expending your focus you can keep it active indefinitely. Keep in mind, however, that it can be dispelled. PEF deals 10d6 damage (will half) to all undead within 30 feet, and triggers your death ward, forming a combo. You can use your move action to recharge your psychic strike or to position yourself for the nova. Sadly, the save DC relies on Charisma. (Why??) And of course, getting healed instantly for 5d8 +5 when you fall below zero hp is a nice ability, even if it can only happen 1/day.

    @ Kelb: I understand your bitterness, but anticipating a thread will go wrong is a self-fulfilling prophecy if you don't actually try to contribute to it.
    Last edited by Optimystik; 2010-01-18 at 07:58 AM.

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    Default Re: Overall thoughts? Optimizing Soulknife as RAW as possible.

    I can see a few advantages to having two ranks in PsyWar. That's two powers to manifest whenever, and inertial armor seems like one that'd prove useful, more so than the force disc. Thank you for pointing out a potential boost. It also looks like I'll be able to get some much needed feats that route. *goes off to crunch numbers*

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    Default Re: Overall thoughts? Optimizing Soulknife as RAW as possible.

    Make sure you still go with soulknife at level 1 though - you need the skill points.

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    Default Re: Overall thoughts? Optimizing Soulknife as RAW as possible.

    Oh, That's already done. I've just reached level three with this character. I can take the next two ranks in PsyWar, and still be ready for Illumine Soul Immediately after level five. Whether or not I choose to do that is still up to be seen, though.

    Edit: As I peruse the books, I see I would lose 1d8 from my psychic strike and my +5 Mind Blade would drop to +4, the latter loss being made up for in the BAB being boosted, also being dropped by another by the loss of 2 BABs from Soulknife...

    -2BAB, -1 to the Mind blade, -1d8 Psychic Strike
    +1BAB, +3 Fort BsB, full armor proficiency, two feats, two first level powers...

    Definitely worth the trade off.

    Edit2:
    I can take it whenever, now, both at once, one now one later, etc. But to work it into the optimized build I have listed, I'll need time to reflect on this and find the best timing, while still getting quick access to the important things... Shape Mind blade, in my opinion, is one of the most important features granted by the soulknife early on for this triplicate build...
    Last edited by Karen Lynn; 2010-01-18 at 08:37 AM.

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    Default Re: Overall thoughts? Optimizing Soulknife as RAW as possible.

    Quote Originally Posted by Optimystik View Post
    @ Kelb: I understand your bitterness, but anticipating a thread will go wrong is a self-fulfilling prophecy if you don't actually try to contribute to it.
    yeah, sorry for that. But after you've seen so many threads about soulknife/monk degenerate into a bash-fest against both classes it gets to the point where it seems a forgone conclusion. Who knows, maybe, in getting it out of the way on the second post, I'll have actually helped to prevent/ slow the progression of such degeneration.

    His build does look okay for an undead campaign, though a touch of psywar or the hidden talent acf would definitely help quite a bit. If it's allowed, kalashtar get absolutely wonderful soulknife options. (good monk stuff too, incedentally.)

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    Default Re: Overall thoughts? Optimizing Soulknife as RAW as possible.

    So, any suggestions on the two powers? I'm looking at Metaphysical weapon[not sure if it stacks], skate[I have up the walls, and soon will have speed of thought. Picture a soulknife skating on the walls and ceiling xD], hustle[extra move? Yes!]. Those are what I'm thinking right now. No longer sure about inertial armor, as I can now wear all armors. Then again, to instantly gain glowy armor at +4, with no encumbrance or ACP, that'd be cool. Feel free to put forth your favorite/most useful/most hilarious choice/combination for two first lever PsyWar powers.

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    Default Re: Overall thoughts? Optimizing Soulknife as RAW as possible.

    Taking both Expansion and Compression can be.... fun. Confuses the heck out of people, but fun. =)
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    Default Re: Overall thoughts? Optimizing Soulknife as RAW as possible.

    I see it now... "Malik, what are you doing?" "I use up the walls and run to the ceiling above the foe, then use expansion to increase my size and weight. I fall on him."

    Holy crap... New death from above tactic.[Yes, I just augmented something I did last session...]

    1d6 damage for every 200lbs that falls 10 feet.

    1320 pounds... 30 feet.... 21d6; Maxes out at 20d6 damage... Tumble to stand without provoking AoO... Oh no... Those poor Koboolds/Lizardmen...

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    Default Re: Overall thoughts? Optimizing Soulknife as RAW as possible.

    Quote Originally Posted by Adrian Korvedzk View Post
    -2BAB, -1 to the Mind blade, -1d8 Psychic Strike
    +1BAB, +3 Fort BsB, full armor proficiency, two feats, two first level powers...
    Tip: use fractional bab, the way bab was meant to be, and you won't lose any bab because psywar end soulknife are both 3/4 bab classes.
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    Default Re: Overall thoughts? Optimizing Soulknife as RAW as possible.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelb_Panthera View Post
    yeah, sorry for that. But after you've seen so many threads about soulknife/monk degenerate into a bash-fest against both classes it gets to the point where it seems a forgone conclusion. Who knows, maybe, in getting it out of the way on the second post, I'll have actually helped to prevent/ slow the progression of such degeneration.
    Had he started the thread off with "Soulknives are great and I don't see what all the fuss is about" then such a reaction would have rightly happened. But the OP made it clear he was aware of their limitations, and wanted to play the class anyway, in a very niche role.

    Quote Originally Posted by Adrian Korvedzk View Post
    So, any suggestions on the two powers? I'm looking at Metaphysical weapon[not sure if it stacks], skate[I have up the walls, and soon will have speed of thought. Picture a soulknife skating on the walls and ceiling xD], hustle[extra move? Yes!]. Those are what I'm thinking right now. No longer sure about inertial armor, as I can now wear all armors. Then again, to instantly gain glowy armor at +4, with no encumbrance or ACP, that'd be cool. Feel free to put forth your favorite/most useful/most hilarious choice/combination for two first lever PsyWar powers.
    Hustle is very useful to your build, but I mistakenly thought it was a first-level power. You'll sadly need two more psywar levels to take it, at which point you may as well take one more for the bonus feat.

    Burst is a poor man's hustle but can at least help you position for a flare, or retreat. Compression and Expansion are probably your best bets, as zeal pointed out - they give you many options in combat.

    Psionic Endure Elements (CPsi) can protect you from elemental attacks and environmental hazards. You can also cast it on your party members. It also lasts all day, even at level 1.

    Stygian Discernment might be a good one for roleplay purposes, allowing you to pinpoint invisible undead.

    If you go up to Psywar 5, you get Hustle, another 2nd level power, 9PP before racial and ability score bonuses, and another bonus feat. You now have access to highly useful powers like Concealing Amorpha, Psionic Lion's Charge, Dimension Swap, and Psionic Scent.

    Soulknife 1/PsyWar 2/Soulknife +2/Illumine Soul 5/Psywar +3/Soulknife +7

    So you trade Knife to the Soul (sucks) and 1d8 Psychic Strike for the ability to gain additional move actions, as well as swap places with your allies, or full attack on a charge. Fair trade, imo.

    If you'd rather have the 1d8 of psychic strike, go only Psywar 4 and Soulknife +8 instead, bringing you to SK 11. You'll only have a slot for Hustle though.

    Also, YES, use fractional BAB.
    Last edited by Optimystik; 2010-01-18 at 04:57 PM.

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    Default Re: Overall thoughts? Optimizing Soulknife as RAW as possible.

    Quote Originally Posted by Adrian Korvedzk View Post
    I see it now... "Malik, what are you doing?" "I use up the walls and run to the ceiling above the foe, then use expansion to increase my size and weight. I fall on him."

    Holy crap... New death from above tactic.[Yes, I just augmented something I did last session...]

    1d6 damage for every 200lbs that falls 10 feet.

    1320 pounds... 30 feet.... 21d6; Maxes out at 20d6 damage... Tumble to stand without provoking AoO... Oh no... Those poor Koboolds/Lizardmen...
    Warforged + Adamantine Body + Flaw: Obese + Willing Deformity (obese) = very heavy.


    Oh, and no-one's mentioned soulbow yet? Wis to damage is pretty nice with Zen Archery.
    Last edited by Prime32; 2010-01-18 at 04:54 PM.

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    Default Re: Overall thoughts? Optimizing Soulknife as RAW as possible.

    Consider replacing PsyWar with Ardent, too. Freedom mantle gives you Hustle (as a level 2 power), Force mantle grants the AC bonuses you wanted, Conflict gives you Metaphysical Weapon, Psionic Lion's Charge... it's all good.

    Plus, taking practiced manifester will let you unlock higher level powers much sooner.

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    Default Re: Overall thoughts? Optimizing Soulknife as RAW as possible.

    Quote Originally Posted by Adrian Korvedzk View Post
    Well, my character's back story involves home and family being harassed by undead. He gains an ability to wield a weapon forged of his mind, and later on in his life[adventuring] learns to tap into pure positive energy to destroy the undead. I would like people's feedback on my projected character build, and how feasible it is.
    Then go Soulknife 1/Cleric 19. Problem solved.
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    Default Re: Overall thoughts? Optimizing Soulknife as RAW as possible.

    Alternately, take 1 level of ardent, then practiced manifester, then another level of ardent. As long as that second level of ardent is at level 5 or higher, you immediately get one power known of up to 3rd level from one of your chosen mantles. This is, so far, pretty much the way to get a power of a decent level with only 2 levels of a manifesting class. After using this trick you can take expanded knowledge for any must have 1st or 2nd level powers.

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    Default Re: Overall thoughts? Optimizing Soulknife as RAW as possible.

    The biggest thing, however, is that I _WILL_ have all five levels of Illumine soul by mid-game[12, 13-ish]. The point of this isn't, as one poster said above, to be a mindblade wielding cleric. I am trying to optimize my character as a Sk/IS, playing in an undead centric campaign with a DM who is not a fan of psionics. He's not a fan because he has broken the game with them.

    *Don't really see how a Sk/PsyWar/IS is game breaking. Already have a paladin, necro, dragon shaman, etc., in the same party.

    I am now a Sk3/PsyWar2, have 6 powerpoints, and two powers: Force screen and Deflection Field. My AC is now pumped whenever I want/need it to be, I got two bonus feats[Psionic Meditation and Mind Cleave], Think I'll get Mind empowerment next level, going to pour through the books and update my build to reflect this.

    This is ongoing, so continuous feedback is appreciated.

    Edit:Just realized, if I'm willing to lose knife to the soul, I could take a third rank in PsyWar, get Inertial Armor, and truly be a self sufficient combatant.

    Edit2: Realizing more and more, that as I continue to talk about optimizing, I sound more and more like a power gamer... *is not a munchkin!*

    Edit3: By taking a third rank in PsyWar, I lose out on Mind Blade Enhancement +4... And no longer have Knife to the soul... Thoughts on this last bit?
    Last edited by Karen Lynn; 2010-01-19 at 06:26 AM.

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    Default Re: Overall thoughts? Optimizing Soulknife as RAW as possible.

    Quote Originally Posted by Adrian Korvedzk View Post
    The biggest thing, however, is that I _WILL_ have all five levels of Illumine soul by mid-game[12, 13-ish]. The point of this isn't, as one poster said above, to be a mindblade wielding cleric. I am trying to optimize my character as a Sk/IS, playing in an undead centric campaign with a DM who is not a fan of psionics. He's not a fan because he has broken the game with them.
    Oh..... in that case don't use what I said about the ardent. Save it until your DM is more comfortable with psionics. If you use it now, the ban-hammer will be wielded and your options for character creation drop a touch, something that I believe is a horrible thing indeed.
    Last edited by Kelb_Panthera; 2010-01-19 at 06:54 AM.

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    Default Re: Overall thoughts? Optimizing Soulknife as RAW as possible.

    I think I have it almost right. Think y'all could take another peek and see what y'all think now? I've still another feat to choose, and now I'm not sure what to select. I could get more power points, and manifest more often; I could select feats elsewhere[Toughness, anyone?], but all in all, I think I optimized it beyond my scope. Comments?

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    Default Re: Overall thoughts? Optimizing Soulknife as RAW as possible.

    Quote Originally Posted by Adrian Korvedzk View Post
    The biggest thing, however, is that I _WILL_ have all five levels of Illumine soul by mid-game[12, 13-ish]. The point of this isn't, as one poster said above, to be a mindblade wielding cleric. I am trying to optimize my character as a Sk/IS, playing in an undead centric campaign with a DM who is not a fan of psionics. He's not a fan because he has broken the game with them.

    *Don't really see how a Sk/PsyWar/IS is game breaking. Already have a paladin, necro, dragon shaman, etc., in the same party.
    Regardless of how "broken" he believes psionics to be, you are using combining the weakest psionic class (SK) with the one of the two most balanced ones (Ardent and Psywar.) I can't see how he'd be upset at your choices.

    Quote Originally Posted by Adrian Korvedzk View Post
    I am now a Sk3/PsyWar2, have 6 powerpoints, and two powers: Force screen and Deflection Field. My AC is now pumped whenever I want/need it to be, I got two bonus feats[Psionic Meditation and Mind Cleave], Think I'll get Mind empowerment next level, going to pour through the books and update my build to reflect this.
    I would have left Mind Cleave until later - if you're fighting mindless undead now, your Psychic Strike is useless, so spending feats on it should wait until after you enter Illumine Soul. Though of course you'll be doing so next level, so maybe you can stick it out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Adrian Korvedzk View Post
    Edit:Just realized, if I'm willing to lose knife to the soul, I could take a third rank in PsyWar, get Inertial Armor, and truly be a self sufficient combatant.

    Edit2: Realizing more and more, that as I continue to talk about optimizing, I sound more and more like a power gamer... *is not a munchkin!*

    Edit3: By taking a third rank in PsyWar, I lose out on Mind Blade Enhancement +4... And no longer have Knife to the soul... Thoughts on this last bit?
    1) It goes without saying that one can optimize without being a "munchkin."

    2) Knife to the Soul sucks. Horribly. Even ghouls have good mental scores. While you're plinking away at them, not only are you not slowing them down in the least, you're also not contributing to the rest of the party who is likely doing HP damage. And even if you do render an undead opponent helpless with ability damage, you still have to waste actions finishing them off (Illumine Soul still doesn't let you CDG undead.)

    And all that's assuming your DM even allows ability damage to work on undead. Avoid like the plague.

    If you're going to Psywar 3, go Psywar 5 instead - 2 level 2 powers (Hello Hustle), more fort (you'll probably be making a lot of fort saves in an undead campaign) and another bonus feat.

    Quote Originally Posted by Adrian Korvedzk View Post
    I think I have it almost right. Think y'all could take another peek and see what y'all think now? I've still another feat to choose, and now I'm not sure what to select. I could get more power points, and manifest more often; I could select feats elsewhere[Toughness, anyone?], but all in all, I think I optimized it beyond my scope. Comments?
    Did you update the wiki linked in the first post? I'm still seeing your old Soulknife 15/Illumine Soul 5 build.

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    Default Re: Overall thoughts? Optimizing Soulknife as RAW as possible.

    1) How high do you expect this campaign to go?

    2) You still have a dead level at the end - I hate dead levels - another level of Psywar will give you Hustle.

    3) Why are you entering Illumine Soul so late? You can enter at ECL 5 (SK 3/Psywar 2). 5 + 3 = 8, half of 8 is 4. You're human, so you can take Able Learner at level 1 to pick up 4 ranks in Know (Religion) early and save some skill points, or just take it cross-class, though that will eat up your skill points.

    So with this build I posted first - SK 1/PsyWar 2/SK +2/Illumine Soul 5 - at level 10, you will have full Illumine Soul abilities, +3d8 PS, a +2 mind blade with +1 enhancement capacity, 3 PP before wisdom, and 2 first-level powers (one of which should be psionic endure elements.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Adrian Korvedzk View Post
    The loss of fort base from cutting two ranks in Sk offsets the two ranks in PsyWar's boost to fort save.
    I'm not seeing that - fort is a weak save for Soulknives, and a strong save for Psywars. Perhaps it depends on where you drop it? the difference is negligible either way, it's just something to think about.
    Last edited by Optimystik; 2010-01-19 at 08:02 AM.

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    Default Re: Overall thoughts? Optimizing Soulknife as RAW as possible.

    Quote Originally Posted by Optimystik
    I would have left Mind Cleave until later - if you're fighting mindless undead now, your Psychic Strike is useless, so spending feats on it should wait until after you enter Illumine Soul. Though of course you'll be doing so next level, so maybe you can stick it out.
    And we're 1xp from next level, which means Undead are soon to tremble.

    Quote Originally Posted by Optimystik
    Knife to the Soul sucks. Horribly. Even ghouls have good mental scores. While you're plinking away at them, not only are you not slowing them down in the least, you're also not contributing to the rest of the party who is likely doing HP damage. And even if you do render an undead opponent helpless with ability damage, you still have to waste actions finishing them off (Illumine Soul still doesn't let you CDG undead.)
    Hence why I chose one more level in PsyWar for a BAB boost and extra power.

    Quote Originally Posted by Optimystik
    If you're going to Psywar 3, go Psywar 5 instead - 2 level 2 powers (Hello Hustle), more fort (you'll probably be making a lot of fort saves in an undead campaign) and another bonus feat.
    The loss of fort base from cutting two ranks in Sk offsets the two ranks in PsyWar's boost to fort save. The extra powers... Hmmm.... The feat...

    My DM would so hate me for using Dimension Swap...

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    Default Re: Overall thoughts? Optimizing Soulknife as RAW as possible.

    Quote Originally Posted by Optimystik
    1) How high do you expect this campaign to go?
    My DM says he's wanting to reach epic levels, so...

    Quote Originally Posted by Optimystik
    2) You still have a dead level at the end - I hate dead levels - another level of Psywar will give you Hustle.

    3) Why are you entering Illumine Soul so late? You can enter at ECL 5 (SK 3/Psywar 2). 5 + 3 = 8, half of 8 is 4. You're human, so you can take Able Learner at level 1 to pick up 4 ranks in Know (Religion) early and save some skill points, or just take it cross-class, though that will eat up your skill points.
    Yeah, Looking over all at everything, I can see your point. Though I do have extra skill points to burn[High INT mod].

    Quote Originally Posted by Optimystik
    So with this build I posted first - SK 1/PsyWar 2/SK +2/Illumine Soul 5 - at level 10, you will have full Illumine Soul abilities, +3d8 PS, a +2 mind blade with +1 enhancement capacity, 3 PP before wisdom, and 2 first-level powers (one of which should be psionic endure elements.)
    That would be more rapid to the important things, Thus more optimal. *goes back to trudge through editing*

    I don't want to take too many levels in PsyWar, as that would defeat the purpose of basing the build on Soulknife, methinks. Correct me if I'm wrong.

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    Default Re: Overall thoughts? Optimizing Soulknife as RAW as possible.

    Quote Originally Posted by Adrian Korvedzk View Post
    I don't want to take too many levels in PsyWar, as that would defeat the purpose of basing the build on Soulknife, methinks. Correct me if I'm wrong.
    You'll still be a soulknife with just 4-5 levels in Psywar. What you have to look at, is what the 5th level gains you vs. what you give up.

    Soulknife 11 Illumine Soul 5 gives you a +4 Mind blade. That's it.

    Soulknife 10 Illumine Soul 5 gives you a +3 Mind Blade. In exchange, you get a free feat, 2 more PP, plus your choice of switching places with an ally, gaining concealment, making your soulknife a reach weapon, ignoring concealment as a swift action (full attack!), or full attacking at the end of a charge - all in addition to giving yourself extra move actions via Hustle.

    (Dimension Swap, Concealing Amorpha, Extend Reach, Moment of Insight, Psionic Lion's Charge, respectively.)

    All of those are worth more than just another +1 to attack and damage, I think.

    You're still swinging a light saber around, so you're still a soulknife. You just have very useful tricks.
    Last edited by Optimystik; 2010-01-19 at 08:41 AM.

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    Default Re: Overall thoughts? Optimizing Soulknife as RAW as possible.

    Love the lightsaber comment.

    Yeah, you're right. Thanks for really taking the time to point these all out for me. I'm a little thick skulled right now.

    Edit:

    About when would you get PsyWar to rank 5? By the looks of things, I need it there before lvl16, maybe sooner. Maybe 14, or even 13? What say you?
    Last edited by Karen Lynn; 2010-01-19 at 08:48 AM.

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    Default Re: Overall thoughts? Optimizing Soulknife as RAW as possible.

    Quote Originally Posted by Adrian Korvedzk View Post
    Love the lightsaber comment.

    Yeah, you're right. Thanks for really taking the time to point these all out for me. I'm a little thick skulled right now.
    You're welcome

    Quote Originally Posted by Adrian Korvedzk View Post
    Edit:

    About when would you get PsyWar to rank 5? By the looks of things, I need it there before lvl16, maybe sooner. Maybe 14, or even 13? What say you?
    The key to multiclassing is opportunity cost. What do you give up, and what do you get?

    Soulknife +2 vs. Psywar +2
    Spoiler
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    At level 10, you will be just finishing Illumine Soul. You count as a Soulknife 8 for Psychic Strike and Mind Blade purposes, but still just SK 3 for everything else. Because you already got the SK 4 mind blade enhancement, adding SK here becomes a dead level - thumbs down. Another SK gets you to 5, giving Free Draw and Shape Mind blade. Free Draw is useless (see below for details.) Shape Mind Blade turns your short sword into a longsword - whoopty-do, 1d6 to 1d8.

    Enhancement-wise, those same 2 levels make you count as a Soulknife 10, which gives +2 enhancement capacity to your blade, giving you the awesome Suppression (targeted dispel on strike.) This is the best reason to go SK +2 when you're done with Illumine Soul, but I'm not sold yet.

    So to summarize, you gain:

    - An increase to +2 enhancement
    - Free Draw
    - Shape Mind Blade (you'll most likely go with Longsword if you have a nice shield - and you should, since you have no ACF to worry about.)

    In the same 2 levels as a Psywar, you get:
    - 4 more power points (bringing your total to 6 before ability score and racial bonuses.)
    - Hustle (which obviates Free Draw - if your mind blade gets sundered and you're under pressure, give yourself another move action and remake it.)
    - An new 1st-level power of your choice. If you already have Compression and Expansion, a good one to take here would be Vigor (bonus HP) or Synesthete (cannot be blinded or deafened, and you get a circumstance bonus on spot and listen checks - circumstance is rare, so it stacks with others (like competence from Bards.) You can also take Burst, which negates the need for Speed of Thought (see below.)

    Personally I prefer the latter, but a suppression blade is useful.


    To aid in your decision, think about ECL 12, where you've made one of the above choices: +2 SK or +2 PW. So now your choice would be SK +3 or PW +3.

    Spoiler
    Show
    What does one more level of each get you?
    +1 Soulknife at this point gives you SK 6, which counts as SK 11 for your blade (giving you another psychic strike.)

    So you get:

    - 1d8 Psychic Strike
    - Speed of Thought.

    Not too impressive to me. One more level of Psywar on the other hand:

    - Bonus Feat. I don't have to tell you - feats are good. A great one to spend it on is Practiced Manifester, giving you 9 ML with your Psywar abilities (making them last a lot longer, and able to be augmented higher.)
    - Another 2nd-level power. This is where you go bananas, choosing if you want to teleport to your allies' defense, full attack on a charge, the other cool things I mentioned, etc. Needless to say, being able to full attack on charges and ignore concealment will probably add a lot more damage to your attacks than a mere 1d8.
    - 2 PP. now you can use your tricks more times before resting, and even afford to augment some.


    So to answer your question, I think you should head right into Psywar 5 and then go back to Soulknife afterward.

    Now if you're asking me how I would build it - I would make it far more of a psywar build than a Soulknife one. Powers are excellent, powers give options. But you want more of a soulknife flavor and I respect that.
    Last edited by Optimystik; 2010-01-19 at 09:42 AM.

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    Default Re: Overall thoughts? Optimizing Soulknife as RAW as possible.

    Well, I am at Sk3/PsyWar2 right now, going IS in literally 1EXP. My first two powers are Force Disc(+4 Shield bonus to AC) and Deflection Field(+4 Deflection bonus to AC). I'm making my third power Inertial Armor(+4 AC, non-stacking with worn armor). This will obviate the need for any forms of armor, cutting encumbrance, removing my ACP, and removing my max dex mod limit. I'm thinking of Hustle and Dimension Swap as my 2nd level powers. How do you think of this setup? I agree with getting PsyWar to 5 immediately after IS. I stop taking that class earlier, why wait until end game to be able to use my powers?

    Edit:
    Enlarge power would increase the range in which I could use Dimension Swap at no additional power point cost. Seemingly situational, as my group tends to stay within thirty feet-

    Epiphany, mid edit: Speed of thought, enlarge power, up the walls. Full out sprint along the walls with increased speed to place myself at the back of a group, say near a caster, or on a ledge out of reach of opponents. DS with my own caster if on a ledge, or with the group paladin, dragon shaman, or one of our fighters if by the enemy caster... Talk about tactical mobility
    Last edited by Karen Lynn; 2010-01-19 at 10:28 AM.

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    Default Re: Overall thoughts? Optimizing Soulknife as RAW as possible.

    What's your Dex mod? (In fact, list your stats if you could please.) I think that's too many powers geared toward getting the same bonuses armor and a shield would give you.

    By level 10, you will have magic armor - +4 AC is easily within reach - inertial armor becomes redundant. Likewise with Force Disc, and a magic shield (though Force Disc comes in handy if you use a 2-handed mind blade later.)

    You're not a skill monkey - armor check penalties shouldn't matter to you, and you of course have no ASF due to psionics.
    Last edited by Optimystik; 2010-01-19 at 10:31 AM.

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    Default Re: Overall thoughts? Optimizing Soulknife as RAW as possible.

    STR 16
    DEX 17
    CON 18
    INT 12 [Like I said, High enough INT]
    WIS 14
    CHA 9

    ACP do matter to me, as I have to swim, tumble, hide, move silently, etc. And yes, I've put to use each of those and more already.
    Last edited by Karen Lynn; 2010-01-19 at 10:36 AM.

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