3.5 Optimize: How much stacking damage reduction can you cram into one build?

[Talbot]

Topic. No LA. No infinite loop cheese. Dragon Mags ok. Go nuts.

[SurlySeraph]

Depends, does DR of the same type from different sources stack? I've heard different rulings on that.

Anyway, I'm sure there are plenty of things that blow this away, but Paladin 5/ Pious Templar 3/ Dwarven Defender 10 with Divine Armor, Practiced Spellcaster (to meet Divine Armor's CL requirement), Armor Specialization, and Adamantine Full Plate is a start. DR 12/- most of the time, and DR 17/- after expending a turning attempt.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Well, you can get DR 15/- with Immovability, but you can get even more broken with Biofeedback. How? Well, it only starts off as DR 2/-, but for every 3 additional PP you spend, you get an extra +1, and you can move around with it. Plus there are ways to reduce your expenditures, and over channel, and increase your Manifester Level, to abuse this with.

[sonofzeal]

Mwahaha! This calls for my "Henry the Indestructable" build, which was unfortunately eaten in a tragic Gleemax update.



Dwarf Generic Expert 2 / Generic Arcane Spellcaster 1 / Generic Divine Spellcaster 1 / Generic Warrior X

Feats: Toughness, Roll With It (SS) xN

DR at level 5 is 16/-, and it goes up 1.66 per level after that, for 40/- at level 20. It also stacks with everything, so you can layer on Adamantine Fullplate (which you're proficient with) and Scrolls of whatever (which you don't need UMD for), to boost it even higher.

[sonofzeal]

Depends, does DR of the same type from different sources stack? I've heard different rulings on that.

Doesn't, unless it specifically says it does. Generally you just get to choose the best (so someone with DR 15/magic will still profit from DR 10/silver if they expect magic weapons around).

Plus there are ways to reduce your expenditures, and over channel, and increase your Manifester Level, to abuse this with.

Eh, the best I can figure this way is DR 10/-. There really aren't very many ways to boost ML - Overchannel + Orange Ioun Stone, and that's about it.

[Talbot]

Mwahaha! This calls for my "Henry the Indestructable" build, which was unfortunately eaten in a tragic Gleemax update.



Dwarf Generic Expert 2 / Generic Arcane Spellcaster 1 / Generic Divine Spellcaster 1 / Generic Warrior X

Feats: Toughness, Roll With It (SS) xN

Can the generic Spellcasters/Warriors be replaced with ANY spellcaster/warrior or do they need to be the NPC classes?

[sonofzeal]

Can the generic Spellcasters/Warriors be replaced with ANY spellcaster/warrior or do they need to be the NPC classes?

Click on the links. "Generic Spellcaster" is its own class, which is not an NPC class, and it needs to be that class for the thing to work.

[ex cathedra]

I have a build that may or may not be able to get DR 32/- out of Biofeedback at 13th level, increasing by ~2.3/- per level, depending on certain variables. Maybe not, though. It's hard to say.

[sonofzeal]

I have a build that may or may not be able to get DR 32/- out of Biofeedback at 13th level, increasing by ~2.3/- per level, depending on certain variables. Maybe not, though. It's hard to say.

Care to clarify? If there's a way to boost ML that fast, I'd love to hear it.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Care to clarify? If there's a way to boost ML that fast, I'd love to hear it.

If he's doing what I think he's doing, it's related to Schism abuse.

[Runestar]

Barbs can consistently get dr10 at lv 19 (either dr10/adamantine via goliath barb or dr10/- via berserker strength variant + improved resiliency).

Shame it won't stack with anything else. Armour spec would have been nice.

[Vizzerdrix]

Don't forget to add in earthsilk shirts for a stacking +1 DR. Races of Stone.

[Soranar]

you can only stack DR with the same penetration

for example untyped DR (like epic damage reduction and barbarian damage reduction) stacks unless specified to the contrary

highest DR you can get, as far as I know

play a fey race or any other race with chaotic alignment

pixie works especially well (LA +4) D 10/cold iron

now take every single fey heritage feat

one gives you cold iron DR for each one you take which will give you 6 more total (unless there are more I'm not aware of)

you can then take 2 ways to progress, warlock for 5 more DR scaled by level or favored soul 20 for 10 more DR at level 20

total DR with favored soul 26

[lord_khaine]

You cant stack damage reduction unless its specificly mentioned that it improves your existing damage reduction.

Im pretty sure that build wont work quite as good as you want it to.

[Tyndmyr]

Start with a warforged. Grab all the DR feats. Get the spells to Chaos Shuffle. Find an otouyogh hole or a metamagic storm. Live there.

[Optimystik]

Depends, does DR of the same type from different sources stack? I've heard different rulings on that.

No.

"If a creature has damage reduction from more than one source, the two forms of damage reduction do not stack. Instead, the creature gets the benefit of the best damage reduction in a given situation."

[SurlySeraph]

Doesn't, unless it specifically says it does. Generally you just get to choose the best (so someone with DR 15/magic will still profit from DR 10/silver if they expect magic weapons around).

But that's DR of different types, which I know about. What I'm asking is (for example) if you somehow had a 7th level barbarian with Divine Armor, would he have DR 6/- (his Barbarian DR 1/- + DR 5/- from Divine Armor) or would he have DR 5/-? As I said, I've heard different rulings on this.

Optimystik's SRD link strongly suggests it doesn't stack, though.

[sonofzeal]

Optimystik's SRD link strongly suggests it doesn't stack, though.

Er, I think that quote goes beyond "strongly suggests" and into "outright says".

The only exception I know is "Roll With It", and using that with a Dorje of Imovability and some UPD checks gets you up to DR 55/-, or 49/- if you want 7th level spells (off any of the the Cleric or Druid or Sor/Wiz lists) as well.

[Talbot]

RAW it seems pretty clear that stuff doesn't stack. You could make an RAI argument that the quote is meant to explain that you can't combine, say, DR/Silver 7 and DR/Adamantine 3 to get DR/Adamantine Silver 7, but it's a little bit of a reach.

[Drakevarg]

Whatever the best thing posted here is, +Mummified Creature Template.

[sonofzeal]

Whatever the best thing posted here is, +Mummified Creature Template.

Doesn't work. First, DR doesn't stack unless otherwise specified, as has been discussed here already; it'll work with Roll With It, but not Immovability. Second, the current record requires having a Con of 20. Third, even if it was legal, the four levels lost to LA mean you actually end up behind wherever you were before.

Mineral Warrior would be better, but is bypassable and includes a specific reinforcement of stacking rules. The specific ruling in Roll With It about stacking trumps the general rule about not-stacking, but I'd say that a source of DR with a specific not-stacking clause trumps that.

[Sinfire Titan]

Eh, the best I can figure this way is DR 10/-. There really aren't very many ways to boost ML - Overchannel + Orange Ioun Stone, and that's about it.

Any magic item/spell effect that boosts CL will boost ML too. So Prayer Beads, Candle of Invocation, Create Magic Tattoo, Greater Consumptive Field, etc.

[Kantolin]

Magic Item Compendium (pg26) has the Ironward Diamond, which provides damage reduction (of 1, 3, or 5/-) that expressly 'stacks with similar damage reduction granted by any other source'. Let's use 5/-.

It also (on pg 192) has the Breastplate of Terror, which is a +1 adamantine breasplate (thus DR 2/-) that stacsk with damage reduction gained as a class feature (which in this case, expressly includes a barbarian's DR as that's their given example).

The prestige class 'Ironsoul Forgemaster' in the Magic of Incarnum (pg 127) gets Armour Bond at level 5, which gives you Damage reduction essentia/- that expressly stacks with like DR from armour.

A Duskling can take (at 7th level) the alternate class feature in the Magic of Incarnum (pg 44) which lets them invest essentia into the class feature to gain DR 1 + 1/essentia.

Complete warrior has 'Greater Resiliency', which gives you +1 to your intrinsic DR. (pg 99)

Strangely, I... don't know if the book of exalted deed's Champion of Gwynharyf's damage reduction stacks with a barbarians, although it's clearly meant to Assuming it is, you get 5 by taking all 10 levels of the class, and it's DR from class levels just like the barbarians so we're all stacking (Or at least 1 for every 2 levels). Another option, however, is to go with a Totem Rager - that DR expressly stacks (for one at level 3, one at level 7, which is hard to squeeze in with everything else).

Also up in the air is the PHB2's 'Armour Specialization' feat, which I don't think stacks with Adamantine. If it does, however, then that's an additional 2DR.
~~

So, if Champion and Armour Specialization don't pile in, you get:

Duskling Barbarian 7 / Totemist 2 / Ironsoul Forgemaster 5 / Totem Rager 3 / Stoneblessed 3
Gets you:

DR 5/- [DR 1+1/essentia from Duskling Barbarian]
DR 4/- [Armour bond from Ironsoul Forgemaster]
DR 2/- [Breastplate of Terror]
DR 5/- [Greater Ironward Diamond, lasts until you take 50 damage]
DR 1/- [Greater Resiliency, Complete Warrior]
DR 1/- [Totem Rager 3]

Resulting in DR 18/-, which is mostly on all day (Buy more than one Greater Ironward diamond). Also, at a glance and as a bonus, it's probably mostly playable too - the only really funky part is stoneblessed sneaking in there, and +2 con probably won't kill you, plus it's not really eating up many of your feats. If you can take heavy armour optimization, that makes it 20/- unless you can squeeze in some champion of gwyf.

Although now that I /look/ at incarnum, uh. A level 18 Incarnate (Or level 15 incarnate level 3 anything) who puts max essentia into adamant pauldrons (7, Expanded Soulmeld Capacity +2, takes the Expanded Soulmeld Capacity feat) can just flat out get damage reduction of 21/good or evil or law or chaos all day without really spending any resources on it (Expanded Soulmeld Capacity feat is wicked awesome, this doesn't even have to be bound), so I suppose I just beat myself without any real effort. :P

Edit: Misread adamant pauldrons.

[Person_Man]

Endure Blows feat from Draconomicon gives you DR 2/- which specifically stacks with damage reduction from other sources. It requires Con 19, Dragon Type, and Toughness. Plus you can only take a feat once unless otherwise specified.

Hidecarved Dragon 5 increases your DR by 5 points. Of course, the PrC is nearly impossible to qualify for (+20 Natural Armor, +12 Base Will Save, dragon type).

Various Grafts provide DR. But I think it's the wimpy DR/magic, and they have their own ridiculous stacking rules as well.

Honestly, you're better off just adding hit points and vampiric healing.

[sonofzeal]

Magic Item Compendium (pg26) has the Ironward Diamond, which provides damage reduction (of 1, 3, or 5/-) that expressly 'stacks with similar damage reduction granted by any other source'. Let's use 5/-.

It also (on pg 192) has the Breastplate of Terror, which is a +1 adamantine breasplate (thus DR 2/-) that stacsk with damage reduction gained as a class feature (which in this case, expressly includes a barbarian's DR as that's their given example).

The prestige class 'Ironsoul Forgemaster' in the Magic of Incarnum (pg 127) gets Armour Bond at level 5, which gives you Damage reduction essentia/- that expressly stacks with like DR from armour.

A Duskling can take (at 7th level) the alternate class feature in the Magic of Incarnum (pg 44) which lets them invest essentia into the class feature to gain DR 1 + 1/essentia.

Complete warrior has 'Greater Resiliency', which gives you +1 to your intrinsic DR. (pg 99)

Strangely, I... don't know if the book of exalted deed's Champion of Gwynharyf's damage reduction stacks with a barbarians, although it's clearly meant to Assuming it is, you get 5 by taking all 10 levels of the class, and it's DR from class levels just like the barbarians so we're all stacking (Or at least 1 for every 2 levels). Another option, however, is to go with a Totem Rager - that DR expressly stacks (for one at level 3, one at level 7, which is hard to squeeze in with everything else).

Also up in the air is the PHB2's 'Armour Specialization' feat, which I don't think stacks with Adamantine. If it does, however, then that's an additional 2DR.
~~

So, if Champion and Armour Specialization don't pile in, you get:

Duskling Barbarian 7 / Totemist 2 / Ironsoul Forgemaster 5 / Totem Rager 3 / Stoneblessed 3
Gets you:

DR 5/- [DR 1+1/essentia from Duskling Barbarian]
DR 4/- [Armour bond from Ironsoul Forgemaster]
DR 2/- [Breastplate of Terror]
DR 5/- [Greater Ironward Diamond, lasts until you take 50 damage]
DR 1/- [Greater Resiliency, Complete Warrior]
DR 1/- [Totem Rager 3]

Resulting in DR 18/-, which is mostly on all day (Buy more than one Greater Ironward diamond). Also, at a glance and as a bonus, it's probably mostly playable too - the only really funky part is stoneblessed sneaking in there, and +2 con probably won't kill you, plus it's not really eating up many of your feats. If you can take heavy armour optimization, that makes it 20/- unless you can squeeze in some champion of gwyf.

Berserker (Deities) is probably the best Barbarian-type PrC for Damage Reduction, gaining 4/- over 8 levels. Again it doesn't officially stack with Barbarian, but it's clearly intended to, and the class itself is free to enter for Barbarians.

[Blackfang108]

No.

"If a creature has damage reduction from more than one source, the two forms of damage reduction do not stack. Instead, the creature gets the benefit of the best damage reduction in a given situation."

This seems to imply that only different FORMS of damage reduction do not stack.

e.g.: DR X/Silver does not stack with DR Y/Good.

At least, that's how it reads to me.

[Person_Man]

Although now that I /look/ at incarnum, uh. A level 18 Incarnate (Or level 15 incarnate level 3 anything) who puts max essentia into adamant pauldrons (7, Expanded Soulmeld Capacity +2, takes the Expanded Soulmeld Capacity feat) can just flat out get damage reduction of 21/good or evil or law or chaos all day without really spending any resources on it (Expanded Soulmeld Capacity feat is wicked awesome, this doesn't even have to be bound), so I suppose I just beat myself without any real effort. :P

Unless I'm reading it incorrectly, Adamant Pauldrons provides DR/opposite alignment = invested essentia.

Base from 18 HD: +4
Incarnate 15: +2
Expanded Soulmeld Capacity Feat: +1
Magic Item: +1

So unless I'm missing something, that's DR 8.

You might be thinking of Wind Cloak, which provides DR 2 + (2 * essentia) against ranged attacks. Or Totem Avatar, which provides DR (5 + essentia)/magic.

[Kantolin]

Unless I'm reading it incorrectly, Adamant Pauldrons provides DR/opposite alignment = invested essentia.

Wow, I did misread it... repeatedly. My mistake.

This also means I'm incidentally cheating in a game I'm in, and will have to rectify that. Thanks for the catch.

[Glimbur]

Although now that I /look/ at incarnum, uh. A level 18 Incarnate (Or level 15 incarnate level 3 anything) who puts max essentia into adamant pauldrons (7, Expanded Soulmeld Capacity +2, takes the Expanded Soulmeld Capacity feat) can just flat out get damage reduction of 21/good or evil or law or chaos all day without really spending any resources on it (Expanded Soulmeld Capacity feat is wicked awesome, this doesn't even have to be bound), so I suppose I just beat myself without any real effort. :P

That example only gets DR 7/alignment. You get one point of DR for each point of essentia in the soulmeld.

Edit: there are clearly Umbral Disciples nearby.

[Person_Man]

Wow, I did misread it... repeatedly. My mistake.

This also means I'm incidentally cheating in a game I'm in, and will have to rectify that. Thanks for the catch.

It happens. It doesn't really matter though. If you're playing as an Incarnate, you have a metric ton of awesome defensive abilities.

Oh, if it's a low magic campaign, you might also be thinking of Astral Vembraces, which provides DR 2 + (2 * essentia)/magic. But in my games, DR/magic is pretty useless though.