Three New Spells (PEACH)

[Another_Poet]

Three new spells of practical utility but with a whimsical flavor. I wonder if my fellow Playgrounders feel they are of the appropriate spell level.

REDUX

New Spell: Enbiggening Ray
Transmutation
Level: Sor/Wiz 2
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Effect: Ray
Duration: 1 round/level (D) but see text
Saving Throw: Fortitude negates
Spell Resistance: Yes

This ray can only affect a creature that is already magically enlarged (as with Enlarge Person, Animal Growth or similar). Creatures who are already Colossal cannot be affected by this spell.

The target increases by an additional size category, gains an additional +2 size bonus to Strength, -2 size penalty to Dexterity (to a minimum of 1), and -1 penalty on attack rolls and AC due to its increased size. Worn or carried items also grow an additional size category. These effects stack with other enlarging effects. All other normal restrictions of enlarging effects apply as usual.

This spell is immediately dismissed if the original enlarge effect on the creature ends for any reason.



New Spell: Ray of Hugefaction
Transmutation
Level: Sor/Wiz 3
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Long (400 ft. + 40 ft./level)
Effect: Ray
Duration: 1 round/level (D) but see text
Saving Throw: Fortitude negates
Spell Resistance: Yes

This ray can only affect a creature that is already under the effect of Enbiggening Ray. Creatures who are already Colossal cannot be affected by this spell.

The target increases by an additional size category, gains an additional +2 size bonus to Strength, -2 size penalty to Dexterity (to a minimum of 1), and -1 penalty on attack rolls and AC due to its increased size. Worn or carried items also grow an additional size category. These effects stack with other enlarging effects. All other normal restrictions of enlarging effects apply as usual.

This spell is immediately dismissed if the Enbiggening Ray effect on the creature ends for any reason.



New Spell: Horse's Thanks
Transmutation
Level: Sor/Wiz 3, Pal1, Rgr1
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Target: One humanoid creature
Duration: 1 hour/level (D)
Saving Throw: Fortitude negates
Spell Resistance: Yes

For the duration of this spell, any enlarging effects (such as Enlarge Person) put on the subject will also enlarge one trained battle mount. The subject must be touching the mount or its gear when receiving the enlarge effect (they do not need to be touching when Horse's Thanks is cast). The mount must be trained for combat riding in order to receive the benefit of the enlarging. The mount receives all of the normal size adjustments and any carried or worn objects are also enlarged. A mount must still be at least one size category larger than its rider to be ridden.

If the subject of this spell loses contact with the mount at any time, the mount reverts to its normal size until touched by the subject again. Only one mount can be included at a time.

Horse's Thanks can be made permanent with a Permanency spell.

[Milskidasith]

Those new spells are OP for a lot of builds... melee characters already get huge benefits for size increases, getting a free two more from any enlargement spell (which totals up to four with Expansion), any melee character goes from normal to colossal, which is an absurd, absurd thing for melee (not that I believe melee can't have nice things, but three size increases at level 3, and more once expansion lets you increase two sizes, is absurd.)

[DracoDei]

Your arguements don't address "Horse's Thanks"... which I think should should be on the Paladin spell list, perhaps even at level 2... I could even see my gnomish Society Members* (see my extended signature) carrying around potions of that spell.


*Edit: Or anyone with the Mounted Combat feat really...

[Lysander]

The first two seem overpowered. The horse spell is pretty great.

[jiriku]

Ray of hugefaction should be level 3, not because it's inherently that powerful, but because it's predicated on the assumption that the target has already used magic to gain huge size and is now in the process of becoming gargantuan, just as was mentioned by Milsadsfkladsf.

Mounts' thanks should be added to the druid, paladin, and ranger lists, as all three are potentially mount-using classes. I really don't see it on the Strength domain list. I would also support moving mounts' thanks down to level 2, or level 1 for paladins and rangers.

[Lapak]

I generally agree with the comments before me; the mount spell is very good and the other two are too much. Though thinking about it, the duration sections on both make me wonder if they couldn't be fixed.

Perhaps cut the first to 1 round/level and the second to, oh, somewhere around 1-2 rounds. Further, they cut the duration of the prior spells down to match: if either ends, both do. You can Embiggen, but it will cut short your Enlargement, and you can Hugefy, but that will undercut both Embiggening and Enlargement. So you're trading power for duration across the board.

[Mikka]

I think we should add rules for how much damage you get when you grow into a dungeon roof. I can see this as an offensive spell, grow the guy until his back breaks, or hes so big he can just barely lie in a hallway and can't move : D

[Temotei]

Milsadsfkladsf.

Nice job.

Mils + kid + a + sith.

[Latronis]

Milsadsfkladsf is far more amusing however

[Milskidasith]

Nice job.

Mils + kid + a + sith.

Mil + ski + da + sith, actually (It was going to be "the" sith, at first, but the original website I used it on had a character limit, so I shortened it. Milski is a nickname I have IRL.)

[Temotei]

Mil + ski + da + sith, actually (It was going to be "the" sith, at first, but the original website I used it on had a character limit, so I shortened it. Milski is a nickname I have IRL.)

Ah. That makes sense.

Milski sounds Russian, but that's probably my American stereotype at work.

[Milskidasith]

Ah. That makes sense.

Milski sounds Russian, but that's probably my American stereotype at work.

Polish last name, actually. I am an American, if you were still curious.

[Temotei]

Polish last name, actually. I am an American, if you were still curious.

I was close.

On topic: These spells, as others have said, need to be changed. Getting two size categories bigger at 3rd level for a fighter is ridiculously good.

Horse's thanks, on the other hand, is cool and flavorful.

[jiriku]

Nice job.

Mils + kid + a + sith.

Yah whateva. Close enough.

[Another_Poet]

Update and request for further PEACH:

I've edited changes into the original post. I lowered duration on Enbiggening Ray and raised spell level on Ray of Hugefaction. I took Horse's Thanks off of the Strength domain list and added it to Paladin and Ranger (not druid, mostly because I'm not handing any more treats to druids than they already have )

I wonder if the changes seem like enough. Everyone wanted me to raise the spell levels which I don't think is a good idea. If you have to cast a 1st level spell and two 2nd level spells just to dish out big damage for 1 battle, it's already penalty enough. At low levels that's spending all your best spell slots to buff one fighter for one battle; at high levels it's meh. I did raise Ray of Hugefaction to 3rd level but I'm still on the fence about it.

Further comments appreciated.

[Baron Corm]

Giant size, which makes you colossal, is level 9 and self-only. I think 2 size category increases which can be used on others are at the minimum levels 5 and 7, but probably higher.

You could only make it lower level if it was severely gimped in some way. Like lowering the duration to one or two rounds, or make the increased size "unwieldy" and give decreased benefits and increased penalties.

[Another_Poet]

Huh, I've never heard of that spell. What's its duration?

Also, taking three rounds to cast (a full action for Enlarge Person, two standards for the two rays) and having a miss chance (even on allies) with the two rays sounds pretty gimped to me. And that only gets a Medium creature to Gargantuan, not Colossal.

[jiriku]

Update and request for further PEACH:

I've edited changes into the original post. I lowered duration on Enbiggening Ray and raised spell level on Ray of Hugefaction. I took Horse's Thanks off of the Strength domain list and added it to Paladin and Ranger (not druid, mostly because I'm not handing any more treats to druids than they already have )

I wonder if the changes seem like enough. Everyone wanted me to raise the spell levels which I don't think is a good idea. If you have to cast a 1st level spell and two 2nd level spells just to dish out big damage for 1 battle, it's already penalty enough. At low levels that's spending all your best spell slots to buff one fighter for one battle; at high levels it's meh. I did raise Ray of Hugefaction to 3rd level but I'm still on the fence about it.

Further comments appreciated.

I agree that ray of hugefaction is weak for 3rd level, but it is definitely too strong for 2nd level. How about this: enbiggening ray and ray of hugefaction both work normally on targets who are not magically enlarged, and can be used to counterspell any spell that shrinks or enlarges a creature. If a creature already magically enlarged is targeted by enbiggening ray, enbiggening ray still works and provides an additional +4 size bonus to Strength, rather than merely +2. Ray of hugefaction does the same; however, if a creature is already under the effect of two magical enlargements, ray of hugefaction still works and provides an additional +6 size bonus to Strength, rather than merely +2.

This provides some additional utility for both spells (counterspelling, which I know is only marginally useful), makes them usable independently (so if your enlarge person gets dispelled before you can cast enbiggening or hugefaction, you aren't stuck with uncastable spells in your repertoire), and provides a modest improvement to both, making it more worthwhile to burn three standard actions and three spell slots buffing a single ally.

[Baron Corm]

Huh, I've never heard of that spell. What's its duration?

Also, taking three rounds to cast (a full action for Enlarge Person, two standards for the two rays) and having a miss chance (even on allies) with the two rays sounds pretty gimped to me. And that only gets a Medium creature to Gargantuan, not Colossal.

Not much of a miss chance when it's a touch attack that the target doesn't want to dodge, making your attack roll often against AC 10.

The point that it takes a couple rounds to get in motion is valid, though. I just think there are probably ways to get around that, like a spellcasting item or something. Imagine increasing 3 size categories with a level 1, level 2, and level 3 spell, as a free action (maybe?). I'm just not quite sure. If the spell is only used on the caster's melee friends, and the casting time isn't reduced, it would probably be fine.

[Milskidasith]

Not much of a miss chance when it's a touch attack that the target doesn't want to dodge, making your attack roll often against AC 10.

The point that it takes a couple rounds to get in motion is valid, though. I just think there are probably ways to get around that, like a spellcasting item or something. Imagine increasing 3 size categories with a level 1, level 2, and level 3 spell, as a free action (maybe?). I'm just not quite sure. If the spell is only used on the caster's melee friends, and the casting time isn't reduced, it would probably be fine.

I'm fairly certain you can automatically hits somebody if they don't attempt to dodge, for the same reason you don't need attack rolls to cast Cure X on somebody willing.

Again, they are too powerful. Yes, it takes a few actions to set up, but it's a *massive* benefit. With a slightly augmented power or a few lower level spell slots you can turn your melee character into a god. Sure, at low levels it's a huge resource expenditure, but at high levels you're getting a ninth level spell (medium-colossal, if you use expansion or a naturally large race) using three low level spell slots, which is nuts. Even at, say, level 5 or 7, it's not much to cast all of the spells on a target (since by that point 2nd and 1st level spells are plentiful and not as encounter changing, excluding staples like Web and Grease), and having a gargantuan buddy in Melee means that everybody within, what, 30 feet (with a reach weapon) provokes AoOs for doing anything.