Subdual damage modification [PEACH]

[Tehnar]

Subdual damage:
If a creature has taken more subdual damage then its max hp x1.25 (minimum max hp +10) , any further subdual damage dealt to that creature is considered lethal damage. Damage reduction still applies, but you can deal lethal damage to regenerating creatures this way even if you can't deal lethal damage normally.


Notes
*The maximum hp x 1.25 is a homebrew of mine that all creatures die at -25% of their maximum hp instead of max hp - 10 (if it is lower).
*The change is so you can't beat on someone forever and he still gets better after X time, or rather you can beat up someone to death.
*It also lets PCs kill regenerating monsters instead of burying them alive or worse.

[Melayl]

I heartily approve. I was thinking about a very similar idea, but I think yours is better.

Although I'm not sure about dealing lethal damage to regenerating creatures. I do think they should suffer lethal damage from more than fire and acid, but that's a different thread.

[Tehnar]

The reason I included it is that almost all of monsters I faced (or sent at players) are either killed by lethal means, or knocked so far into negative subdual damage that the PCs can have a few hours to dig holes, carve tombstones, dump their mutilated bodies in those holes, cover up the grave and say a eulogy.

Once we faced vile half red dragon trolls. After a hearty battle my cleric dragged them on the blade barrier while he dug a hole and started to conjure water to drown them in.

[Melayl]

Sounds like a fun game.

[Roderick_BR]

Well, when something passes out from leathal + subdual damage, they are defenseless, so any attack is pretty much a coup de grace. No need for this sorta rule. I do like the -25% HP rule, though.
And the purpose of regeneration IS to make something hard to kill (or impossible, in the Tarrasque's case).

[DracoDei]

Don't know if this is relevant, but: You can't Coup de Grace something with Regen unless the weapon used to do it bypasses their regen.

[Tehnar]

Well aside from the Tarrasque, are there any high regeneration monsters? And the Tarrasque can really be made a exception to the rule, if I ever decide to throw it at the players.

Its just that my experience is that regeneration is pretty useful while the fight lasts; but once monsters are subdued its pretty much a non issue in 90% of the situations.

Or maybe I'm handling the thing wrong, and letting characters know they are fighting regenerating creatures (via heal checks)?

[Latronis]

well i think regeneration would be so visually apparant the characters should know the foe is regenerating anyway.

Also bear in mind a simple torch can perform a coup de grace for most regenerating foes. Though its not going to have the best save dc

[Roderick_BR]

From the SRD: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbi...m#regeneration
Characters unconcious from subdual damage can be killed by coup de grace, as long as the attack used can deal normal damage (bypass it's regenerative properties). Death attacks needs to be able to deal normal damage to work as well.
It says nothing about being obvious if the creature have regeneration. Damage Reduction does say that the attacker knows when an attack is ineffective, but there's nothing specific about regeneration.
But It does say that attacks are converted into non-lethal damage. A character that notices that a creature is taking too long to drop could ask to pay closer attention to see if his attacks are dealing any real damage.

[Latronis]

From the SRD: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbi...m#regeneration
Characters unconcious from subdual damage can be killed by coup de grace, as long as the attack used can deal normal damage (bypass it's regenerative properties). Death attacks needs to be able to deal normal damage to work as well.
It says nothing about being obvious if the creature have regeneration. Damage Reduction does say that the attacker knows when an attack is ineffective, but there's nothing specific about regeneration.
But It does say that attacks are converted into non-lethal damage. A character that notices that a creature is taking too long to drop could ask to pay closer attention to see if his attacks are dealing any real damage.

Stab a troll with a dagger and you might 4 damage. Mechanically it is converted to nonlethal damage, 5 of which gets healed each round. Now given it is called regeneration one could assume its merely a mechanical mechanical aspect and damage that doesn't bypass regeneration may still wound the target temporarily. In which case the dagger would 'heal' in front of your eyes. That would be a fairly obvious visual clue. And then theres the whole regrowing lost limbs and reattaching lost limbs thing.