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    Default [Tome of Battle Discipline] Sanguine Brand

    Sanguine Brand, the Discipline of Bloodied Scars



    The Sanguine Brand discipline, unlike many fighting styles, was formed by a single man by the name of Diego de la Vega, a master duelist with a keen eye. He was a renown champion of justice, and his unique fighting style focused on the use of precise flicks of the wrist to carve the flesh from his enemy's bones. Through experimentation, he found that by carving a symbol onto his foes, they become psychologically damaged as well as psychically damaged. By honing the precise movements of the hand and wrists that one would use in order to write with, de la Vega formed a fighting style that his enemies feared, for even if one survived an encounter with de la Vega, none ever lost the scars to forget their defeat.

    De la Vega was said to have been a primary influence upon the formation of the Diamond Mind discipline, and some claim that Reshar himself was the only man to ever best de la Vega in a duel. Legend has it that the supernatural blade Reshar presented to his students of the Diamond Mind at the Temple of Nine Swords years later was pryed from the battered and bruised form of de la Vega, who cursed the blade into undoing everything Reshar set out to accomplish in uniting the world's fighting styles. Although Reshar learned the techniques of de la Vega from merely studying his movements in their legendary duel, he considered the act of branding one's symbol into their foe to be far too brutish to be taught to any self respecting swordsman, and left both de la Vega and his art to die. However, de la Vega survived the encounter through his own sheer hatred of Reshar, and formed his own temple, the Temple of the Sanguine Brand that mocked all the principles that Reshar held dear. The temple, according to its initiates, was not only named for the bloody marks they left on their foes, but for the scars Reshar so hippicritically left on de la Vega.

    The key skill associated with the Sanguine Brand discipline is Forgery, as skilled pensmenship is essential to produce effective and precise markings on one's foes in the heat of battle. The discipline's associated weapons are the dagger, duelist's cloak, rapier, and whip.

    Discipline Mechanic #1 - Wounding Strike
    Many of the maneuvers in the Sanguine Brand discipline utilize a type of damage known as wounding damage. Wounding damage can only be dealt if an attack deals at least one point of lethal damage to its target, so if a melee attack is completely absorbed by damage reduction or some other effect, no wounding damage is done. At the start of each of its turns, a wounded creature takes one point of damage per point of wounding damage it has taken.

    Multiple sources of wounding damage stack, and wounding damage isn't affected by abilities that absorb or affect damage, such as Divine Resolve or Damage Reduction. Any attack that applies wounding damage deals regular damage to a creature with regeneration, however the creature subjects a number of points of wounding damage dealt equal to its regeneration number; for example, a creature with Regeneration 5 ignores 5 points of wounding damage from an attack that deals wounding damage, though all remaining damage dealt is lethal. If all wounding damage is negated in this way, the attack deals nonlethal damage as normal. Wounding damage has no effect when initially applied, so it does not count towards massive damage. Wounding damage only affects creatures that are capable of bleeding, so it has no effect on creatures immune to critical hits. Wounding damage is only removed when the creature is fully healed to full health by magic. Alternatively, a DC 30 Heal check removes one point of wounding damage. Multiple checks can be made to slowly remove this damage penalty.

    Discipline Mechanic #2 - Scarred
    The major focus of the Sanguine Brand discipline is on a special condition known as scarred. Scarring a creature represents deforming it in such a way that it becomes branded; their flesh is carved with a word, letter, or pattern or their body is in some other way dented or deformed. While scarred, a creature takes a -4 penalty to Disguise checks and Bluff checks involving staying in character while disguised. The scarred creature's mark has a Hit Point value equal to the number of ranks in Forgery the initiator possesses. Every point of magical healing, fast healing, or regeneration healing done removes one hit point from the scar, and at 0 Hit Points it fades completely. If the scar is not cured within 12 hours of being created, however, it becomes permanent. A limited wish, wish, or miracle spell can remove the scar, and a creature that returns to life from the grave has a new body created for their soul, so no scar is present.

    List of Maneuvers and Stances

    1st Level Maneuvers and Stances

    Instigate - Boost - Your mark enrages a creature, forcing it to attack you.
    Mark of Demoralization - Strike - You carve your mark onto your foe, demoralizing them with your symbol.
    Whirling Strike - Counter - You follow up a failed attack with a perfect counter.
    Step of the Egoist - Stance - You gain bonuses while fighting a marked creature.

    2nd Level Maneuvers and Stances

    Scarlet Letter - Boost - Deal additional damage to a marked target based on Forgery.
    Turnabout - Strike - Use a scarred creature's wounds to make some attacks more effective.
    Permascar - Boost - Reinforce an inflicted scar with a deep-cutting wound.

    3rd Level Maneuvers and Stances

    Mark of Winding - Strike - You leave your mark on the foe, knocking the wind from them.
    Sickening Strike - Strike - You strike a scarred area, wrecking the creature with nausea.
    The Fox's Grin - Stance - Your deviant mind allows you to become more charming.

    4th Level Maneuvers and Stances

    Heart Pierce - Boost - Your weapon strikes true, increasing its chance to critically hit.
    Magic Hampering Mark - Strike - Your mark interferes with spellcasting and manifesting.
    Rapid Puncture - Strike - You strike quickly at a single target.

    5th Level Maneuvers and Stances

    Disabling Strike - Counter an attack and disable their primary hand.
    Mark of Wounding - Strike - You leave your mark on the foe, causing them to bleed.
    Pen is Mightier - Your ranks in Forgery grant you damage reduction.

    6th Level Maneuvers and Stances

    Multimark - Strike - You place many small, shallow scars on multiple creatures.
    Weaken Defense - Strike - You weaken a foe's defenses, making them vulnerable to marking.

    7th Level Maneuvers and Stances

    Tendon Snap - Strike - Your mark interferes with a foe's muscles, softening their blows.
    Supernatural Severing Mark - Strike - Your mark interferes with supernatural powers.

    8th Level Maneuvers and Stances

    Greater Multimark - Strike - You place many scars on multiple creatures.
    Precise Eye - Stance - Your skill in Forgery increases your weapon's aim.

    9th Level Maneuvers and Stances

    Fatality - Strike - Attempts to slay the creature outright.
    Last edited by Golden-Esque; 2010-02-01 at 09:02 PM.

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    Default Re: [Tome of Battle Discipline] Sanguine Brand

    List of Maneuvers and Stances

    Disabling Strike
    Sanguine Brand 5 (Counter)
    Prerequisites: 2 Sanguine Brand maneuvers
    Initiation Action: 1 immediate action
    Range: Melee
    Target: One creature
    Duration: Instantaneous
    Saving Throw: Fortitude partial

    Your foe lumbers towards you, sluggish compared to your mind. You pierce their arm and watch as their weapon falls to the ground, their arm going limp.

    This maneuver can only be initiated when a creature that threatens you declares a melee attack on you or a creature adjacent to both you and the threatening creature. Make a melee attack roll, and if your attack is higher, you counter the attack, taking no damage and causing the creature to be unable to attack with that arm or limb for 1d4 rounds. A successful Fortitude Save (DC 15 + your Intelligence modifier) halves this duration.

    Fatality
    Sanguine Brand 9 (Strike)
    Prerequisites: 4 Sanguine Brand maneuvers
    Initiation Action: 1 standard action
    Range: Melee
    Target: One creature
    Duration: Instantaneous
    Saving:

    With a final, savoring breath, you plunge your blade deep into the creature and feel the life leave its body.

    As part of this maneuver, make a melee attack on a creature that you threaten. If your attack is successful, you deal an additional 1d6 points of damage for every rank of Forgery you possess. A successful Fortitude Save (DC 19 + your Intelligence modifier) halves this damage. If the creature subjected to this maneuver is scarred by one of your Sanguine Bard maneuvers, the creature is slain outright instead on a failed save and takes 1d6 damage per rank in Forgery you possess on a successful save. A creature must be marked for at least 3 rounds before you can use this maneuver on them.

    Greater Multimark
    Sanguine Brand 8 (Strike)
    Prerequisites: 3 Sanguine Brand maneuvers
    Initiation Action: 1 full-round action
    Range: Your reach
    Target: All creatures within your reach
    Duration: Instantaneous

    You lash out at all nearby creatures, dealing damage and making tiny, shallow scars upon them.

    As part of initiating this maneuver, you make a melee attack against all creatures within your reach (5 feet for Medium and Small creatures). You take a penalty on each attack roll equal to the total number of creatures targeted by this maneuver, and each attack is rolled separately. If your attacks hit, the struck creature takes normal weapon damage plus 1 point of damage per rank in Forgery you possess. In addition, all creatures struck by this maneuver are considered scarred with your symbol (such as your initials, a holy mark, etc). This maneuver cannot be initiated with a weapon that deals bludgeoning damage.

    Heart Pierce
    Sanguine Brand 4 (Boost)
    Prerequisites: 1 Sanguine Brand maneuver
    Initiation Action: 1 swift action
    Range: Melee
    Target: One creature
    Duration: Instantaneous

    Your focus and attention to the scars you've inflicted on your foe's body act as a map, with your foe's demise as the destination.

    After initiating this maneuver, you gain a +1 bonus to your primary hand weapon's critical threat range per 7 ranks in Forgery you possess. This bonus does not apply to weapons that deal bludgeoning damage, and it only works if the weapon attacks are made against creatures that you've scarred with a Sanguine Brand maneuver.

    Instigate
    Sanguine Brand 1 (Boost)
    Prerequisites: None
    Initiation Action: 1 swift action
    Range: Melee
    Target: One creature
    Duration: See Text
    Saving Throw: Will negates

    You gesture to the mark you left on your foe. Upon seeing it, they gasp, and a witty retort or obscene gesture is all it takes to force them into a blind rage, hungering for your blood.

    After initiating this maneuver, a target creature that you have scarred with a Sanguine Brand maneuver must make a Will Save (DC 11 + your Intelligence modifier) or become enraged. While enraged, the creature cannot take any move actions unless they would bring themselves closer to you, and they can only select you as a target with any attacks, spells, powers, or maneuvers they attempt to use. This maneuver lasts until either you flee or the creature dies. The target creature's Will Save DC is increased by +1 for every 3 ranks in Forgery you possess.

    Magic-Hampering Mark
    Sanguine Brand 4 (Counter)
    Prerequisites: 1 Sanguine Brand maneuver
    Initiation Action: 1 immediate action
    Range: 30 ft + 10 ft per initiator level
    Target: One creature
    Duration: See Text
    Saving Throw: No

    Whether they realize it or not, your mark hampers with the abilities of a mage or psion to utilize their powers, much to your convenience.

    You can only initiate this maneuver when a creature that you have scarred with a Sanguine Brand maneuver attempts to cast an Arcane spell or manifest a Psionic power. The creature has a 25% chance of failing their spellcasting or manifestation, causing them to loose the spell slot or power points with no effect occurring. This stacks with Spell Failure Chance, though multiple applications of this maneuver or similar maneuvers, spells, or powers (even from different initiators) do not stack.

    Mark of Demoralization
    Sanguine Brand 1 (Strike)
    Prerequisites: 2 Sanguine Brand maneuvers
    Initiation Action: 1 standard action
    Range: Melee
    Target: One creature
    Duration: See Text
    Saving Throw: Will negates (see text)

    You swiftly cut your mark into your foe, laughing and jeering them for their ignorance.

    As part of initiating this maneuver, make a melee attack roll at your highest bonus against the target creature. If your attack succeeds, you deal normal weapon damage +1 point per rank in Forgery you possess (maximum +20). In addition, the struck creature must make a Will save (DC 15 + your Intelligence modifier) or take a -2 penalty on attack rolls and skill checks. In addition, you remove any morale bonuses the struck creature is benefiting from. This demoralization penalty lasts for as long as the creature can see you and is marked by this maneuver. The save against this demoralization effect increases by +1 per 4 ranks in Forgery you possess. In addition, the creature is considered scarred with your symbol (such as your initials, a holy mark, etc). This maneuver cannot be initiated with a weapon that deals bludgeoning damage.

    Mark of Winding
    Sanguine Brand 3 (Strike)
    Prerequisites: 1 Sanguine Brand maneuver
    Initiation Action: 1 standard action
    Range: Melee
    Target: One creature
    Duration: See Text
    Saving Throw: Fortitude negates (see text)

    You slash into your target's chest, placing your mark upon them and knocking the breath from their lungs.

    As part of initiating this maneuver, make a melee attack roll at your highest bonus against the target creature. If your attack succeeds, you deal normal weapon damage +1 point per rank in Forgery you possess (maximum +20). In addition, the struck creature must make a Fortitude save (DC 13 + your Intelligence modifier) or become exhausted. The save DC against this exhaustion effect increases by +1 per 4 ranks in Forgery you possess. In addition, the creature is considered scarred with your symbol (such as your initials, a holy mark, etc). This maneuver cannot be initiated with a weapon that deals bludgeoning damage.

    Mark of Wounding
    Sanguine Brand 5 (Strike)
    Prerequisites: None
    Initiation Action: 1 standard action
    Range: Melee
    Target: One creature
    Duration: See Text

    You slash cleanly into your foe's flesh, leaving your mark on their body. A sly smile crawls across your face as they realize what you've done.

    As part of initiating this maneuver, make a melee attack roll at your highest bonus against the target creature. If your attack succeeds, you deal normal weapon damage +1 point per rank in Forgery you possess (maximum +20). For every 4 points of additional damage dealt this way, your attack causes 1 point of wounding damage. In addition, the creature is considered scarred with your symbol (such as your initials, a holy mark, etc). This maneuver cannot be initiated with a weapon that deals bludgeoning damage.

    Multimark
    Sanguine Brand 6 (Strike)
    Prerequisites: 3 Sanguine Brand maneuvers
    Initiation Action: 1 full-round action
    Range: Your reach
    Target: All creatures within your reach
    Duration: Instantaneous

    You lash out at all nearby creatures, dealing damage and making tiny, shallow scars upon them.

    As part of initiating this maneuver, you make a melee attack against all creatures within your reach (5 feet for Medium and Small creatures). You take a penalty on each attack roll equal to the total number of creatures targeted by this maneuver, and each attack is rolled separately. If your attacks hit, they don't deal normal weapon damage, but the creatures take 1 point of damage per two ranks in Forgery you possess. In addition, all creatures struck by this maneuver are considered scarred with your symbol (such as your initials, a holy mark, etc). This maneuver cannot be initiated with a weapon that deals bludgeoning damage.

    Pen is Mightier
    Sanguine Brand 5 (Stance)
    Prerequisites: 2 Sanguine Brand maneuvers
    Initiation Action: 1 swift action
    Range: Personal
    Target: You
    Duration: Instantaneous

    Your quick wits and remarks make your opponents more reckless, allowing you to shrug off some of the damage you don't manage to avoid in the first place.

    While you are in this stance, you gain Damage Reduction 1/- per five ranks in Forgery you possess.

    Permascar
    Sanguine Brand 2 (Boost)
    Prerequisites: None
    Initiation Action: 1 swift action
    Range: Melee
    Target: One creature
    Duration: Instantaneous

    You throw more force into your blade as you carve into the flesh of your foes, making your scars more lasting and resistant to healing.

    You can initiate this maneuver after declaring the initiation of a Sanguine Brand maneuver that includes scarring the target creature as part of its description. You can subtract a number from the maneuver's attack roll to increase the created scar's Hit Points by twice the amount sacrificed, though doing so deals no additional damage. The number subtracted cannot exceed your Base Attack Bonus.

    Precise Eye
    Sanguine Brand 8 (Stance)
    Prerequisites: None
    Initiation Action: 1 swift action
    Range: Personal
    Target: You
    Duration: Stance

    Your sharp eye makes out the very veins of your foes, pulsing with blood. You smile as you take a deep breath and make them weep blood.

    While you remain in this stance, you gain a +1 bonus on attack rolls made with Sanguine Brand associate weapons per rank in Forgery you possess. After making a successful attack with this stance, you automatically leave it, and you cannot reassume it for 3 rounds.

    Rapid Puncture
    Sanguine Brand 4 (Strike)
    Prerequisites: 1 Sanguine Brand maneuver
    Initiation Action: 1 standard action
    Range: Melee
    Target: One creature
    Duration: Instantaneous

    You let loose a flurry of blows that hack, slash, and puncture through your foes.

    As part of initiating this maneuver, make a melee attack at your highest attack bonus against the target creature. You can continue to make a number of additional attacks equal to one additional attack per 5 ranks in Forgery you possess. However, all additional attacks beyond the first deal half damage and do not gain the benefit of any spells, powers, maneuvers, or nonracial bonuses (including to attack rolls). In addition, additional weapon attacks made do not gain bonuses from special weapon abilities except for their base magic weapon bonus or qualities that allow them to strike incorporeal or ethereal foes, such as Ghost Touch.

    Scarlet Letter
    Sanguine Brand 2 (Boost)
    Prerequisites: None
    Initiation Action: 1 swift action
    Range: Personal
    Target: You
    Duration: 1 round

    You hone in on the mark you've carved into your foe. Gripping your blade, you memorize the path and prepare to perfectly cut along that line again.

    After initiating this maneuver, you gain a bonus on attack and damage rolls against creatures you've successfully scarred with a maneuver from the Sanguine Brand discipline equal to +1 per 4 ranks in Forgery you possess until the end of the round.

    Sickening Strike
    Sanguine Brand 3 (Strike)
    Prerequisites: 1 Sanguine Brand maneuver
    Initiation Action: 1 standard action
    Range: Melee
    Target: One creature
    Duration: 1d4 rounds

    You hurl your blade into the mark you've crafted upon your foe, twisting their inners in order to make them physically ill.

    As part of initiating this maneuver, make a melee attack against a creature. If you succeed, you deal normal weapon damage and the creature must make a Fortitude Save (DC 13 + your Intelligence modifier) or become sickened for 1d4 rounds. If you previously scarred the struck creature with a Sanguine Brand maneuver, you gain a +4 bonus on the melee attack roll and if they fail their Fortitude Save, they are also nauseated for the duration of this effect.

    Step of the Egoist
    Sanguine Brand 1 (Stance)
    Prerequisites: None
    Initiation Action: 1 swift action
    Range: Personal
    Target: You
    Duration: Stance

    The sight of your symbol upon your weakened foe has a positive psychological impact upon your mind, causing you to fight with finesse you couldn't otherwise muster.

    While you are in this stance, you gain a +1 bonus to your Armor Class and to your Reflex Save +1 per 4 ranks in Forgery you possess against attacks, spells, powers, and maneuvers used by a creature you've scarred with a Sanguine Brand maneuver.

    Supernatural Severing Mark
    Sanguine Brand 4 (Counter)
    Prerequisites: 1 Sanguine Brand maneuver
    Initiation Action: 1 immediate action
    Range: 30 ft + 10 ft per initiator level
    Target: One creature
    Duration: See Text
    Saving Throw: No

    Whether they realize it or not, your mark hampers with the abilities of the supernatural to use their powers, much to your convenience.

    You can only initiate this maneuver when a creature that you have scarred with a Sanguine Brand maneuver attempts to use a supernatural ability. The creature has a 25% chance of failing to use their supernatural ability, causing no effect to occur. This maneuver can only be used against supernatural abilities that require an action to use; it cannot affect constant abilities and an ability interrupted by this maneuver cannot be used again for 5 rounds. If the ability has a limited number of uses per day, one use is expended as if it had been used successfully.

    Tendon Snap
    Sanguine Brand 8 (Strike)
    Prerequisites: 3 Sanguine Brand maneuvers
    Initiation Action: 1 standard action
    Range: Melee
    Target: One creature
    Duration: Instantaneous

    You smirk as you strike at your scarred foe, severing their tendons and drastically lowering their physical might.

    As part of this maneuver, make a melee attack on a foe you threaten that you have scarred with a Sanguine Brand maneuver. If you succeed, you deal normal weapon damage, plus 1d4 points of Strength damage per 7 ranks of Forgery you possess. This maneuver cannot reduce a creature's Strength to below 1.

    The Fox's Grin
    Sanguine Brand 3 (Stance)
    Prerequisites: 1 Sanguine Brand maneuver
    Initiation Action: 1 swift action
    Range: Melee
    Target: One creature
    Duration: Stance

    Your study of forging documents on both paper and people has allowed you to learn how to say exactly what other people want or need to hear.

    While you are in this stance, you gain an enhancement bonus to Charisma checks, Bluff checks, Intimidate checks, and Diplomacy checks equal to half of your ranks in Forgery.

    Turnabout
    Sanguine Brand 2 (Strike)
    Prerequisites: None
    Initiation Action: 1 swift action
    Range: Melee
    Target: One creature
    Duration: Instantaneous

    You jab the scar you inflicted on the target creature and fresh ichor pours from the wound as you use this weak spot to turn the tides.

    As part of initiating this maneuver, you declare either a trip attempt, a grapple attack, or a disarm attempt against a creature you scarred with a Sanguine Brand maneuver. Regardless of the attack you select, you do not provoke an attack of opportunity. You gain a bonus on the roll to confirm your trip attempt, grapple attack, or disarm attempt equal to +1 for every 4 ranks in Forgery you possess.

    Weaken Defense
    Sanguine Brand 6 (Strike)
    Prerequisites: 3 Sanguine Brand maneuvers
    Initiation Action: 1 standard action
    Range: Melee
    Target: One
    Duration: See Text

    You puncture through your foe's defenses, leaving the soft, vulnerable flesh beneath primed for scarring.

    As part of initiating this maneuver, make a melee attack against a creature you threaten. If your attack succeeds, roll your weapon damage normally. However, you deal no damage with this attack; instead, your next Sanguine Brand maneuver that you use on the struck creature during this encounter that causes scarring as part of its effect gains a bonus to its attack roll equal to the amount of weapon damage you dealt (not including typed bonuses except for your Strength bonus) + 1 per 3 ranks of Forgery you possess.

    Whirling Strike
    Sanguine Brand 1 (Counter)
    Prerequisites: None
    Initiation Action: 1 immediate action
    Range: Melee
    Target: One attacking creature
    Duration: Instantaneous

    You easily dodge your foe's incoming attack, preparing an equally viscous counterattack against them.

    You can only initiate this maneuver when an enemy creature that you scarred with a Sanguine Brand maneuver makes an attack roll and fails to overcome your Armor Class. You can make a single melee attack at the enemy creature's highest attack bonus (or yours, whichever is higher) against that creature.
    Last edited by Golden-Esque; 2010-02-01 at 09:20 PM.

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    Default Re: [Tome of Battle Discipline] Sanguine Brand

    You realize that Regeneration converts all damage other than the specific types to subdual, don't you? Probably, and I haven't read further than where you mentioned wounding damage, so I wouldn't know...

    Step of the Egoist is worthless until IL 5 as written (probably want to specify that you round UP), so making it a first a first level stance is... odd to say the least.

    I would consider making stances that rely on IL, instead rely on ranks in Forgery - 3...
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    Default Re: [Tome of Battle Discipline] Sanguine Brand

    Love the core concept, but not so sure about the mechanics. The idea of having a "scarred" condition made specifically for this implies that scarring never occurs to other martial characters, which I find a little strange. And then you add to the fact that scarring can easily be permanent except in the case of really high level characters, and it makes me wonder how this scarring thing fits into the whole picture.

    As for the discipline itself, when I first read it, I read it as a discipline that fundamentally is about demoralizing the enemy, rather than physically scarring them. The difference between this and diamond mind is that diamond mind is more focused on strengthening oneself internally, while this seems to actively attack the foe's mental fortitude. The end result, however, seems to be more about physically scarring your foe, even the real damage done here is shame.

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    Default Re: [Tome of Battle Discipline] Sanguine Brand

    Quote Originally Posted by DracoDei View Post
    You realize that Regeneration converts all damage other than the specific types to subdual, don't you? Probably, and I haven't read further than where you mentioned wounding damage, so I wouldn't know...

    Step of the Egoist is worthless until IL 5 as written (probably want to specify that you round UP), so making it a first a first level stance is... odd to say the least.

    I would consider making stances that rely on IL, instead rely on ranks in Forgery - 3...
    There isn't a whole lot that actually uses wounding damage in the discipline (I ended up narrowing it down to one strike maneuver for variety), so I'm not really worried about the balance of one maneuver. I do think that regeneration needs to interact with scarring in some way, and I'll sit down and figure it out when I have the time to read the rules on Regeneration.

    For Step of the Egoist; its a typo. Sorry ^_^'. Its supposed to be every four ranks in Forgery.

    I think I will go back and remove a lot of the initiator level stuff and replace it with Forgery dependency. The idea was to promote the use of a not-to-often-used skill with this discipline (and Sundered Veil, but apparently no one wants to take a chance that their gear is broken :[ ).

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    Default Re: [Tome of Battle Discipline] Sanguine Brand

    Quote Originally Posted by elliott20 View Post
    Love the core concept, but not so sure about the mechanics. The idea of having a "scarred" condition made specifically for this implies that scarring never occurs to other martial characters, which I find a little strange. And then you add to the fact that scarring can easily be permanent except in the case of really high level characters, and it makes me wonder how this scarring thing fits into the whole picture.

    As for the discipline itself, when I first read it, I read it as a discipline that fundamentally is about demoralizing the enemy, rather than physically scarring them. The difference between this and diamond mind is that diamond mind is more focused on strengthening oneself internally, while this seems to actively attack the foe's mental fortitude. The end result, however, seems to be more about physically scarring your foe, even the real damage done here is shame.
    I do admit that 'scarred' isn't the best possible adjective to use to describe the stat you're in, but since 'marked' was already taken by Bloodhound-esque Prestige Classes, I didn't think it'd do to make the condition a mark. If anyone has a better adjective, I'd love to hear it, because I don't think scarred really does the concept any justice. However, all of the maneuvers reference "scarred by your Sanguine Brand maneuvers," so that implies that there are other ways to become scarred, but the maneuvers only care if its from Sanguine Brand sources :P.

    As for the discipline's focus, I think I'm going to include a line about the Temple's current beliefs. The idea is that while (as you said) Diamond Mind is able inner strength and quickness of mind, Sanguine Brand is about weakening your foe in both body and mind and quickness of wrist. Its definitely a dirty type of fighting; carving your name into your foe's chest before you take them down. When de la Vega originally created the discipline, there was a LOT more psychological weapons in his arsenal, but after loosing to Reshar, he held the Swordsage in so much contempt that all he taught to his students was how to wound foes physically; never the psychological aspects of his styles. This is mostly because I couldn't justify to my own design goals how to include psychologically-inflicting maneuvers, that would work off of Charisma or Intimidate, etc, in a Discipline that was designed to work off of Forgery to promote an underused skill.

    I also rather like the bit of lore that Supernatural Clarity (or whatever I call it when I rename it :P) originally belonging to de la Vega, and him cursing the blade, which ultimately lead to the Temple's downfall.

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    Default Re: [Tome of Battle Discipline] Sanguine Brand

    That's actually one of my favorite parts about this whole thing. The whole thing is like a lot of other concepts that I happened to love, pregnant with hooks.

    If you were to focus enough on this discipline, you can almost say that de la Vega may very well be the go to nemesis of the Temple of Nine, and that's pretty awesome. It also starts to showcase the fundamental difference between Reshar's school of thought versus other schools. While disciplines itself implies a certain philosophical outlook, ultimately, we always go back to the cliche that it's more about how the person utilizes said power and the moral context of such expression. Thus far, we have seen preciously little of that I think mostly because they wanted the material to be plug-n-play so they don't want to ham-string it with lots of setting info.

    But with this, we now can start to define not just disciplines, but also major schools of thought when it comes to power.

    I'm almost tempted to go back through some of my older martial art novels, and pulling material from that to fill in the gaps. In fact, I think I have some fluff text I wrote up for old martial art campaigns a long time ago that we can convert and use for this.

  8. - Top - End - #8
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    Default Re: [Tome of Battle Discipline] Sanguine Brand

    Alright, I fixed up Step of the Egoist. I didn't realize how incorrectly I typed it up T_T. The original mistyped version gave its bonuses based on every 5 initiator levels, but it was supposed to be every 4 ranks in Forgery. That was corrected, and another maneuver that worked off of initiator levels was also changed to be based off of ranks in Forgery instead.

    Quote Originally Posted by elliott20 View Post
    That's actually one of my favorite parts about this whole thing. The whole thing is like a lot of other concepts that I happened to love, pregnant with hooks.

    If you were to focus enough on this discipline, you can almost say that de la Vega may very well be the go to nemesis of the Temple of Nine, and that's pretty awesome. It also starts to showcase the fundamental difference between Reshar's school of thought versus other schools. While disciplines itself implies a certain philosophical outlook, ultimately, we always go back to the cliche that it's more about how the person utilizes said power and the moral context of such expression. Thus far, we have seen preciously little of that I think mostly because they wanted the material to be plug-n-play so they don't want to ham-string it with lots of setting info.

    But with this, we now can start to define not just disciplines, but also major schools of thought when it comes to power.

    I'm almost tempted to go back through some of my older martial art novels, and pulling material from that to fill in the gaps. In fact, I think I have some fluff text I wrote up for old martial art campaigns a long time ago that we can convert and use for this.
    Well, your welcome to use as much of this as you like in your Warriors of Battle project :). I think the Disciplines, their original creators, and where they stand in regards to Reshar, his followers, and everyone's overarching paths to power is really important in developing the actual setting of the day and age. If you (or anyone else that's reading this) has any more advice for this discipline, I'm open to discussion on it, but I think it'd be cool if you focus a little more on fluff, because I find the best way to make things is to picture the fluff and build your crunch out of it :P.

    EDIT: Another thing I wanted to note about de la Vega is the change in motivation he went through. He was once a champion of justice, but humiliation and defeat can be extremely bitter sweet, and they definitely changed his outlook on fighting. Is he necessarily Evil? Maybe, maybe not, but one thing is sure, he's overall philosophy of fighting has changed because of Reshar, and he is obsessed with besting the swordsage at his own game. In theory, this means that de la Vega *might* have sought out other masters of other disciplines that Reshar acknowledged but shunned from his temples to build sort of a "League of Injustice" to the Temple of Nine's "Justice League."

    Hatred can be a powerful adhesive :).
    Last edited by Golden-Esque; 2010-01-31 at 10:21 PM.

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    Default Re: [Tome of Battle Discipline] Sanguine Brand

    at the end of the day, I'm not an expert when it comes to mechanical crunch. So yeah, I'll leave the mechanical execution to the homebrew experts.

    What I WOULD like to suggest though, does tie in with it. The basics is this, the Sanguine Brand discipline pretty much represents the entire body of de la Vegas work, right? We also know that he wasn't always a character that had access to level 9 maneuvers, right?

    What you can do to REALLY showcase the change in mentality is that you can make a bunch of his lower level maneuvers focus on demoralizing his enemies through his markings, but ultimately are about trying to use his uncanny skills (forgery) to intimidate rather than mark. (so it could be as simple as, do damage, target takes a -2 fear bonus or some such.)

    At later levels, especially after the point of his defeat, he starts to go down a path where he focuses more and more on wounding, so his maneuvers in the discipline begins to reflect that mentality.

    Just a thought. Might be too much work though.

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    Default Re: [Tome of Battle Discipline] Sanguine Brand

    Quote Originally Posted by elliott20 View Post
    at the end of the day, I'm not an expert when it comes to mechanical crunch. So yeah, I'll leave the mechanical execution to the homebrew experts.

    What I WOULD like to suggest though, does tie in with it. The basics is this, the Sanguine Brand discipline pretty much represents the entire body of de la Vegas work, right? We also know that he wasn't always a character that had access to level 9 maneuvers, right?

    What you can do to REALLY showcase the change in mentality is that you can make a bunch of his lower level maneuvers focus on demoralizing his enemies through his markings, but ultimately are about trying to use his uncanny skills (forgery) to intimidate rather than mark. (so it could be as simple as, do damage, target takes a -2 fear bonus or some such.)

    At later levels, especially after the point of his defeat, he starts to go down a path where he focuses more and more on wounding, so his maneuvers in the discipline begins to reflect that mentality.

    Just a thought. Might be too much work though.
    Keeping all of this in mind, here are some thoughts.

    #1 - A Master of an Art is more likely to alter their lower-leveled techniques to suit their new purposes. Just like in the Tome of Battle Rules, where every two levels you can swap maneuvers.

    #2 - I do like the idea, but I don't think a drastic overhaul of every discipline is necessary to accomplish this, and I think that only the most scrutinizing eyes will ever pick up on that detail.

    With this in mind, here are some thoughts I'm having.

    The major plan is to swap around what the marks do. My plan was to drop Mark of Blinding and make Fifth Level by that representative point where de la Vega's point of view changes. In its place, I'd move Mark of Wounding up to fifth level, and make a new Mark, perhaps Mark of Demoralization, that uses ranks of Forgery to remove Morale Bonuses or something. Would that be too good for a 1st level maneuver, I wonder. Maybe a Morale Penalty based on Ranks in Forgery would be better.

    Changing some of the earlier maneuver's fluff would also help this concept, as many of the first five levels of maneuvers in nature aren't as brutal in description or deed as the last five; moving Mark of Wounding up would definitely accomplish this, and the marks all do the same damage, just with different side effects anyhow.

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    Default Re: [Tome of Battle Discipline] Sanguine Brand

    Alright, I dropped Mark of Blinding, bumped Mark of Wounding up to 5th level, added Mark of Demoralization, and added rules for Wounding Attacks and Scarring for Regeneration :).

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    Default Re: [Tome of Battle Discipline] Sanguine Brand

    looks good from my end.

    I would really like to see what this "anti-temple of nine" make up is going to be though. that sounds like a good idea to pitch in the Age of Warriors project.

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