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    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    Devil

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    Default Campaign Breaking Builds

    Note: I do not intend to use it in an actual campaign setting, a potential DM of mine plans to do a huge arena style fight and has explicitly told me he wants me to throws the biggest, baddest guy around in there. He is testing something. So Playground, what builds can break the game at 8th level, all books allowed?

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    Orc in the Playground
     
    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Campaign Breaking Builds

    Quote Originally Posted by nekomata2 View Post
    Note: I do not intend to use it in an actual campaign setting, a potential DM of mine plans to do a huge arena style fight and has explicitly told me he wants me to throws the biggest, baddest guy around in there. He is testing something. So Playground, what builds can break the game at 8th level, all books allowed?
    Pun-pun obviously, and Amaranth less obviously, both level 5 or lower :D
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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Campaign Breaking Builds

    Depends also what you mean by break. Like literally, pun pun break? As in, I auto win, no need to roll? Or I one shot almost everything but technically there's a chance? The two are quite different if you actually plan to have arena fights. Pun pun is also really not a legal build in many ways (let's not actually start a debate tho please...) So depends on the size of cheese you want.

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    BlueWizardGirl

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    Default Re: Campaign Breaking Builds

    The constraints, expected challenges, and parameters of play are also important. What matters, what doesn't? Are you fully refreshing after every match? Then 1/day abilities can be a big deal. Are you never refreshing? Then infinite use becomes a necessity. Are traits and flaws allowed? Are any sources off limits? What can you expect to face? Do you have allies? Do you know who they are? Are you making more than one character?

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    Default Re: Campaign Breaking Builds

    1d2 crusader?

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    BlueWizardGirl

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    Default Re: Campaign Breaking Builds

    Quote Originally Posted by deuxhero View Post
    1d2 crusader?
    Isn't Aura of Chaos a 5th-level stance? And wouldn't you need your own casting besides? I don't think you could get that autonomously before level 10.

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    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Sstoopidtallkid's Avatar

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    Default Re: Campaign Breaking Builds

    Quote Originally Posted by randomhero00 View Post
    Depends also what you mean by break. Like literally, pun pun break? As in, I auto win, no need to roll? Or I one shot almost everything but technically there's a chance? The two are quite different if you actually plan to have arena fights. Pun pun is also really not a legal build in many ways (let's not actually start a debate tho please...) So depends on the size of cheese you want.
    Depends on the Pun-Pun. The 4th level version works just fine, IIRC. 1st level is stupid-abusive, though.
    [/sarcasm]
    FAQ is not RAW!
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    deuxhero's Avatar

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    Default Re: Campaign Breaking Builds

    It was just the only non-omniscificer non-punpun non-savegame gamebreaker I could recall off hte top of my head.

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    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    Devil

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    Default Re: Campaign Breaking Builds

    Not Pun-Pun, thats too high, probably around the level of Locate City Bombs. There won't be any refreshing, since it will literally be one giant free-for-all.

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    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    BlueWizardGirl

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    Default Re: Campaign Breaking Builds

    Quote Originally Posted by nekomata2 View Post
    Not Pun-Pun, thats too high, probably around the level of Locate City Bombs. There won't be any refreshing, since it will literally be one giant free-for-all.
    Again, we need details.

    So this is a single match in an open field against large numbers of unallied creatures? Are you fighting other PCs? What about all those other questions I asked? Details, details, or we can't help you out.

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    Default Re: Campaign Breaking Builds

    Locate City Bomb doesn't actually work. That said, you could grab, say, Rogue+Wand of Greater Invisibility+Darkstalker+Dark(bought off)+Whisper Gnome+Swordsage 1+Craven+TWF and be basically unfindable and stabby. Probably the best defense you'll have in a free-for-all at ECL 8, as long as you find a way to avoid AoE attacks.
    [/sarcasm]
    FAQ is not RAW!
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    Saph:It's surprising how many problems can be solved by one druid spell combined with enough aggression.
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    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    Devil

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    Default Re: Campaign Breaking Builds

    It is against the other PCs, and there will be no refreshing after the matches because it is 1 battle, one character each, no Dragon magazine, I'd have to check on flaws, but I think they would be, roughly nothing is banned. I will have no allies, because its a free-for-all, though depending on my ability to wreck them, it may turn from a free-for-all into everyone-attempts-to-kill-me.

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    Default Re: Campaign Breaking Builds

    Quote Originally Posted by nekomata2 View Post
    It is against the other PCs, and there will be no refreshing after the matches because it is 1 battle, one character each, no Dragon magazine, I'd have to check on flaws, but I think they would be, roughly nothing is banned. I will have no allies, because its a free-for-all, though depending on my ability to wreck them, it may turn from a free-for-all into everyone-attempts-to-kill-me.
    Why do you think I suggested Rogue? Grab a wand of Wraithstrike, and walk up to anyone who disengages from the battle. Say "What's your Flatfooted Touch AC? Take 24d6+32+4xDex mod damage." I doubt any of them will have Touchsight/Lifesight/Mindsight unless they frequent these boards.
    [/sarcasm]
    FAQ is not RAW!
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    Saph:It's surprising how many problems can be solved by one druid spell combined with enough aggression.
    I play primarily 3.5 D&D. Most of my advice will be based off of this. If my advice doesn't apply, specify a version in your post.

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    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    Devil

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    Default Re: Campaign Breaking Builds

    I didn't see your rogue suggestion, since it ninjaed me, but that seems like a good start, but the Dark HiPS doesn't work in daylight, and this will very likely be a flat featureless plane type thing. Granted, I could hide after using the wand, but then what does Dark add?

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    Sstoopidtallkid's Avatar

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    Default Re: Campaign Breaking Builds

    Quote Originally Posted by nekomata2 View Post
    I didn't see your rogue suggestion, since it ninjaed me, but that seems like a good start, but the Dark HiPS doesn't work in daylight, and this will very likely be a flat featureless plane type thing. Granted, I could hide after using the wand, but then what does Dark add?
    Better hide mods, and a backup in case one of the mages has See Invis. Though if there's bright sunlight, you can find a better +1 LA.
    [/sarcasm]
    FAQ is not RAW!
    Avatar by the incredible CrimsonAngel.
    Saph:It's surprising how many problems can be solved by one druid spell combined with enough aggression.
    I play primarily 3.5 D&D. Most of my advice will be based off of this. If my advice doesn't apply, specify a version in your post.

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    Default Re: Campaign Breaking Builds

    Quote Originally Posted by Viletta Vadim View Post
    Isn't Aura of Chaos a 5th-level stance? And wouldn't you need your own casting besides? I don't think you could get that autonomously before level 10.
    6th level stance. And depending on how badly you want to mangle the rules, it's possible to get it around ECL 8, but you need to use Bloodline Levels to inflate your Initiator Level. I'm not entirely sure it works, though, since if you take Crusader as your last level, the rules state you have to select a 1st level stance, although there may be a little wiggle room as far as RAW/RAI goes.

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    Default Re: Campaign Breaking Builds

    wizard-5/metaphysical spellshaper-3. Arcane Disciple: war and Spell Thesis-Launch Bolt

    Prep a bunch of invisible (+0), Reached(+2), Chained (+3) launch Bolts in your 1st level spell slots. (-3 from Spell Thesis, -1 from PrC)Make sure you win initiative (Imp Init+ hummingbird), cast Divine Power (arcane Disciple), and rock your opponents in the face with a storm of crossbow bolts.


    This takes 6 feats. A strongheart halfling or human can do it.

    Each casting fires 10 bolts as a if from a light crossbow. pumping CR ups the number of bolts. Apply Flame Arrow as needed.
    Last edited by Vizzerdrix; 2010-01-31 at 04:20 PM.
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    HalflingRogueGuy

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    Default Re: Campaign Breaking Builds

    Shadowcraft Mage can do it. Early entry due to Earth Spell/Easy Metamagic should get you to the campaign breaking level by 8. And tossing around Major Creation for buckets of Black Lotus Poison at level 8 is pretty darn nasty.

    JaronK

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    Doc Roc's Avatar

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    Default Re: Campaign Breaking Builds

    You could grab almost anything from the Test of Spite ban-list, ask a quick question, and deploy a game-break. Or you could check the Jakeverse thread for a wide-range of hilarious early entry methods.
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    Halfling in the Playground
     
    Imp

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    Default Re: Campaign Breaking Builds

    Quote Originally Posted by Sstoopidtallkid View Post
    Depends on the Pun-Pun. The 4th level version works just fine, IIRC. 1st level is stupid-abusive, though.
    The first level pun-pun is stupid-abusive but the 4th level one is not?
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    Sstoopidtallkid's Avatar

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    Default Re: Campaign Breaking Builds

    Quote Originally Posted by Pyro_Azer View Post
    The first level pun-pun is stupid-abusive but the 4th level one is not?
    1st level requires your DM having Pazuzu grant a Wish, which is...said to be his usual deal, but not always. Also requires a DC 25 check, which you aren't going to auto at that level as a Paladin. 4th level works by RAW, no ambiguities, IIRC. Still broken and abusive, but much more legal.
    [/sarcasm]
    FAQ is not RAW!
    Avatar by the incredible CrimsonAngel.
    Saph:It's surprising how many problems can be solved by one druid spell combined with enough aggression.
    I play primarily 3.5 D&D. Most of my advice will be based off of this. If my advice doesn't apply, specify a version in your post.

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    OrcBarbarianGuy

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    Default Re: Campaign Breaking Builds

    Quote Originally Posted by Sstoopidtallkid View Post
    1st level requires your DM having Pazuzu grant a Wish, which is...said to be his usual deal, but not always. Also requires a DC 25 check, which you aren't going to auto at that level as a Paladin. 4th level works by RAW, no ambiguities, IIRC. Still broken and abusive, but much more legal.
    Not to mention Pazuzu is specifically noted as always using Sense Motive to determine whether the person calling is trying to "entrap" him. Admittedly, "entrap" may not be the best descriptor for what Pun-Pun wants to do, but if his Sense Motive is good enough to smell a trap, I have to imagine it's good enough to smell a universe-conquering scheme.

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    Default Re: Campaign Breaking Builds

    I'm a fan of Bubs the Commoner, myself.
    You can get an extra +23 on the item and an extra +4 from skill ranks.

    Total Handle Animal score: 64 (11 ranks +6 cha, +6 aura, +30 item, +2 kit, +2 affinity, +3 focus, +2 affiliate, +1 trait, +1 flexible), with an additional +4 against Dinosaurs.
    On a 1, you can tame any animal with 50 or less HD.
    On a 10, you can tame anything with 59 or less HD.
    On a 20, you can tame any animal with 69 (heh) or less HD.
    Congratulations, you can tame the Tarrasque. On a 1.
    Last edited by absolmorph; 2010-02-01 at 12:24 AM.

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    Default Re: Campaign Breaking Builds

    Quote Originally Posted by Sstoopidtallkid View Post
    1st level requires your DM having Pazuzu grant a Wish, which is...said to be his usual deal, but not always. Also requires a DC 25 check, which you aren't going to auto at that level as a Paladin. 4th level works by RAW, no ambiguities, IIRC. Still broken and abusive, but much more legal.
    1st level also requires abusing a candle of invocation, and using wishes like asking to be transported to a safe plane. Whatever that means. Basically, there are an entire assortment of points at which your DM can easily foil your plot without resorting to fiat at all.

    The 4th level variant is much harder to stop.
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    Troll in the Playground
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    Default Re: Campaign Breaking Builds

    There is this thread floating around, that contains some exceptionally neat tricks and Doc Roc is adding new stuff from time to time.

    Apart from that, there is for example an old trick (i couldn't find the original thread on WotC boards), that gives you a 9th level spell slot at character level 3 (if flaws are allowed - otherwise there is one feat missing):
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    1. Be a human cleric 1. Take Sanctum Spell, Highten Spell and Divine Metamagic: Highten Spell.
    2. Buy enough Night Sticks to pump DMM: Highten to it's limit (9th level).
    3. Put Sanctum Spell atop of your DMM: Highten. You can now effectively cast 10th level spells.
    4. As your 3rd level feat take the one, that gives you a spell slot from one level lower, then the highest level you can cast - I couldn't remember the name of this feat (to anyone with less rusty memory: please help me on that one).
    4a. Alternatively be a venerable Dragonwrought Kobold and take Improved Spellcasting Capacity (epic feat) for up to 11th level slot.

    The best part is, that as a cleric, you know all spells on your list.

    This trick with some more tweaking was used to gain a 9th level arcane spell slot and abuse Ice Assassin (with Eschew Materials). This was Pun-Pun level broken, but the trick itself is not necessarily so.


    @absolmorph
    Bub is all shades of awsome, but having a +30 item at level one is nto part of the build. Still at level 4, he could have 3 Battletitans, which is more then enough to stomp any oposition flat into the ground. Replace Commoner with Druid and you can buff your pets for additional power.
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    Yuki Akuma's Avatar

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    Default Re: Campaign Breaking Builds

    Wizard 9/Ur-Priest 2/Mystic Theurge 9.

    Wizard caster level 18 and 'Cleric' caster level 20. All in one ECL 20 package.

    Yum.
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    Default Re: Campaign Breaking Builds

    Quote Originally Posted by nekomata2 View Post
    I didn't see your rogue suggestion, since it ninjaed me, but that seems like a good start, but the Dark HiPS doesn't work in daylight, and this will very likely be a flat featureless plane type thing. Granted, I could hide after using the wand, but then what does Dark add?
    Dark HiPS makes a great combo with the Dark Lantern item from Tome of Magic, which is only 2k gold.

    There's also some nifty combo, although I forget the details, with a level of Warlock for a Darkness invocation, and some feat from Drow of the Underdark that requires being able to cast Darkness as a spell-like ability.

    Neither of these is the level of cheese of the Locate City Bomb, though, IMHO.
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    BlueWizardGirl

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    Default Re: Campaign Breaking Builds

    Quote Originally Posted by Yuki_Akuma View Post
    Wizard 9/Ur-Priest 2/Mystic Theurge 9.

    Wizard caster level 18 and 'Cleric' caster level 20. All in one ECL 20 package.

    Yum.
    Level 8, chief.

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    Surgebinder in the Playground Moderator
     
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    Default Re: Campaign Breaking Builds

    Quote Originally Posted by Sstoopidtallkid View Post
    Also requires a DC 25 check, which you aren't going to auto at that level as a Paladin.
    If you're built specifically for that, yes you will. Reliably beating a DC 25 one-time skill check at level 1 is not a particularly difficult optimization challenge for theoretical optimizers.
    Last edited by Douglas; 2010-02-01 at 02:26 PM.
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    BlueWizardGirl

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    Default Re: Campaign Breaking Builds

    Quote Originally Posted by douglas View Post
    If you're built specifically for that, yes you will. Reliably beating a DC 25 one-time skill check at level 1 is not a particularly difficult optimization challenge for theoretical optimizers.
    *Waves around some skill shards.*

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