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    Default [3.5] Non-casting wand slinger?

    Hey all, looking for suggestions on how to make a non-casting wand slinger. For my purposes, an Artificer counts as a caster (not to mention that the class does not exist in the campaign setting). Also, psionics = spellcasting in this case.

    Ideally, I'm looking for a way to get Double Wand Wielder and Reckless Wand Wielder without being a caster...is this possible? Could it be done with Warlock, Binder (Karsus) or Factotum?

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    Default Re: [3.5] Non-casting wand slinger?

    Warlock would be easy, with Take 10 on UMD... but straight Rogue could do it easily enough as well...
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    Default Re: [3.5] Non-casting wand slinger?

    Factotum is always the answer! "Free" actions are good, too.

    To be fair, I'd also throw down Binder as a viable option, but that probably shouldn't be his schtick. Really, anything with UMD as a class skill would work.

    Also, considering the nature of Invocations, I'm inclined to throw Warlocks in with the casters.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wings of Peace View Post
    "See these cookies? Note how while good they taste sort of bland. Now try these, they're the same cookies but with chocolate chips added. Notice how with the second batch we expended slightly more ingredients but dramatically enhanced the flavor? That's metamagic."
    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Roc View Post
    Seriously, can we kill this misconception now? A wizard is never late, nor is he early. He shops for precisely what he means to.


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    Default Re: [3.5] Non-casting wand slinger?

    I don't see how Factotum could do it. Reckless wand wielder requires craft wand which requires caster level 5.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Non-casting wand slinger?

    Factotum has a caster level "your caster level equals your level in this character class"
    Always attack a man’s strengths, No one ever expects you to attack the strongest part of the fort. Up the middle that’s where the action is. And it’s the same in life. Don’t run away, attack them head on as their coming at you at full speed. Because that my friend is living.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Non-casting wand slinger?

    In the Sharn City of Towers book there is a prestige class called the Cannith wand adept (3 level class). Adds adept level to wands caster level and DC, +1 to hit with wand attacks, identify wands using spellcraft, and quick draw with wands. Also grants a worse version of double wand wielder.


    Wand Mastery feat: Any spell you cast from a wand has its DC increased by 2 and its effective caster level increased by 2. (Eberron main boo)
    Always attack a man’s strengths, No one ever expects you to attack the strongest part of the fort. Up the middle that’s where the action is. And it’s the same in life. Don’t run away, attack them head on as their coming at you at full speed. Because that my friend is living.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Non-casting wand slinger?

    Third post...

    Actually you don't even have to take a level in any spell casting class....

    Innate Magic Feat (DR324 p78): Select a zero level spell. You gain the spell-like ability to cast this spell once per day. Caster level 1st.
    --Notice the wording says you actually "cast this spell" so you are a spell caster.

    Practiced Spellcaster Feat: Choose one of your spellcasting classes. The spells you cast from this class have +4 Caster level (up to your number of HD).
    --Since innate magic allows any class to be a spellcasting class, this would work for any class.

    Caster level is now Five. So you qualify for Reckless wand wielder.
    Always attack a man’s strengths, No one ever expects you to attack the strongest part of the fort. Up the middle that’s where the action is. And it’s the same in life. Don’t run away, attack them head on as their coming at you at full speed. Because that my friend is living.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Non-casting wand slinger?

    There is an edit button.

    Wand-slinging would be sweet. Do a factotum!
    Homebrew
    Please feel free to PM me any thoughts on my homebrew (or comment in the thread if it's not too old).

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    Default Re: [3.5] Non-casting wand slinger?

    The feat gives you a spell-like ability, first of all, and second, does not make any class a spellcasting class. Sure, that fighter can cast a spell, but did his fighter levels give it to him? No? Then fighter is not a spellcasting class.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Non-casting wand slinger?

    Yeah, would prefer to do this with as little cheese as possible...so Factotum is looking like the front runner so far...

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    Default Re: [3.5] Non-casting wand slinger?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thurbane View Post
    Yeah, would prefer to do this with as little cheese as possible...so Factotum is looking like the front runner so far...
    Warlock gets to Take 10 on UMD checks, so he can never fail a check to activate a wand. This makes a 'lock better at 4th level, but once the Factorum gets a +19 mod to his UMD check, the advantage vanishes.
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    Quite possibly, the best rebuttal I have ever witnessed.
    Joker Bard - the DM's solution to the Batman Wizard.
    Takahashi no Onisan - The scariest Samurai alive
    Incarnum and YOU: a reference guide
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    Multiclassing for Newbies: A reference guide for the rest of us

    My homebrew world in progress: Falcora

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    Default Re: [3.5] Non-casting wand slinger?

    Witchalock.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Non-casting wand slinger?

    Factotum is the cleanest way to do it. It also keeps your character from being useless outside of it's one trick. I recommend factotum.
    Johannes factotum of the Bard Defense League

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    The main question that any DM should ask before making a house-rule or exception is, "Is it balanced?"

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    Default Re: [3.5] Non-casting wand slinger?

    Quote Originally Posted by BardicDuelist View Post
    Factotum is the cleanest way to do it. It also keeps your character from being useless outside of it's one trick. I recommend factotum.
    I would hardly call being able to deal more damage than an Ubercharger on touch attacks 'useless'... nor any of the other battlefield control options a warlock has.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Underlord View Post
    All hail great Shneekeythulhu! Ia Ia Shneeky fthagn
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    Quite possibly, the best rebuttal I have ever witnessed.
    Joker Bard - the DM's solution to the Batman Wizard.
    Takahashi no Onisan - The scariest Samurai alive
    Incarnum and YOU: a reference guide
    Soulmelds, by class and slot: Another Incarnum reference
    Multiclassing for Newbies: A reference guide for the rest of us

    My homebrew world in progress: Falcora

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    Default Re: [3.5] Non-casting wand slinger?

    Quote Originally Posted by ShneekeyTheLost View Post
    I would hardly call being able to deal more damage than an Ubercharger on touch attacks 'useless'... nor any of the other battlefield control options a warlock has.
    Hahahahano.

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    Exclamation Re: [3.5] Non-casting wand slinger?

    ...back on track: can a Warlock qualify for Double Wand Wielder?

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    Default Re: [3.5] Non-casting wand slinger?

    Quote Originally Posted by sofawall View Post
    Hahahahano.
    Look up Glaivelock. Have a nice day. The build I'm making for ToS, at level 13, can do nearly 1k damage. Without breaking action economy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thurbane View Post
    ...back on track: can a Warlock qualify for Double Wand Wielder?
    Don't see why not. Has to have the feat Craft Wand and TWF. Since a Warlock has caster levels, he can take Craft Wand, and TWF as long as his Dex is high enough.
    Last edited by ShneekeyTheLost; 2010-02-03 at 01:51 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Underlord View Post
    All hail great Shneekeythulhu! Ia Ia Shneeky fthagn
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    Quite possibly, the best rebuttal I have ever witnessed.
    Joker Bard - the DM's solution to the Batman Wizard.
    Takahashi no Onisan - The scariest Samurai alive
    Incarnum and YOU: a reference guide
    Soulmelds, by class and slot: Another Incarnum reference
    Multiclassing for Newbies: A reference guide for the rest of us

    My homebrew world in progress: Falcora

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    Default Re: [3.5] Non-casting wand slinger?

    Cool, I wasn't 100% on Warlocks and caster levels.

    ...also, guys, can we not turn this into an "effectiveness of warlocks" thread? There's plenty here already, and (selfishly) I wouldn't like to see this become another.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Non-casting wand slinger?

    How 'bout using Hulking Hurler?
    Or am I being too literal?
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    Default Re: [3.5] Non-casting wand slinger?

    Quote Originally Posted by absolmorph View Post
    How 'bout using Hulking Hurler?
    Or am I being too literal?
    HH is seperate from Ubercharger, although it can use Ubercharger with Power Throw and a few other tricks, maybe a one level dip in Bloodstorm Blade to make thrown weapons count as melee to use all of the Ubercharger tricks. HH, however, is a seperate mechanic breakage, using your Medium Weight Limit as a damage calculator. Ubercharger just stacks craptons of multipliers and pounces.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Underlord View Post
    All hail great Shneekeythulhu! Ia Ia Shneeky fthagn
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    Quite possibly, the best rebuttal I have ever witnessed.
    Joker Bard - the DM's solution to the Batman Wizard.
    Takahashi no Onisan - The scariest Samurai alive
    Incarnum and YOU: a reference guide
    Soulmelds, by class and slot: Another Incarnum reference
    Multiclassing for Newbies: A reference guide for the rest of us

    My homebrew world in progress: Falcora

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    Default Re: [3.5] Non-casting wand slinger?

    I think he was making a joke about being a "wand slinger"...geddit?

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    Default Re: [3.5] Non-casting wand slinger?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thurbane View Post
    I think he was making a joke about being a "wand slinger"...geddit?
    *groans* Okay... I take 2d4 SAN damage... and file the pun away for future use
    Quote Originally Posted by The Underlord View Post
    All hail great Shneekeythulhu! Ia Ia Shneeky fthagn
    Spoiler
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    Quite possibly, the best rebuttal I have ever witnessed.
    Joker Bard - the DM's solution to the Batman Wizard.
    Takahashi no Onisan - The scariest Samurai alive
    Incarnum and YOU: a reference guide
    Soulmelds, by class and slot: Another Incarnum reference
    Multiclassing for Newbies: A reference guide for the rest of us

    My homebrew world in progress: Falcora

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    Default Re: [3.5] Non-casting wand slinger?

    Quote Originally Posted by ShneekeyTheLost View Post
    Look up Glaivelock. Have a nice day. The build I'm making for ToS, at level 13, can do nearly 1k damage. Without breaking action economy.
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    1000? Hmm. Seems like that is slightly less than scientific notation.

    Also, Supreme Power attack gives 4 damage per BAB. Spirited Charge+Valorous Weapon gives *4 damage on a charge, so 16 damage per BAB. Leap Attack adds +100%, so +32 damage per BAB. At level 17 (the earliest you can get level 10 in FB without hax), each hit is pulling off 544 damage from Power Attack, and that's without the extra 20 from Collision and the 64 from str. With 4 attacks from BAB, 1 from Frenzy, one from Whirling Frenzy, even assuming only the three at highest base attack bonus hit, that's above 1k, easy.

    Working at level 13, it's 3*4, or 12 per BAB. With 13 BAB, that's 156. Collision gives another 20, as before, and str gives 52. Seems to be about 228, and with 5 attacks, can break 1k.

    Also, I haven't even used Battle Jump, or any of the methods to gain extra attacks.

    Ubercharger will beat Glaivelock at basically every level in pure damage.

    EDIT: Bear in mind, what was built above is not even an ubercharger. Just a basic charger build.

    EDIT2: Well, technically, 1000 could still be written in scientific notation. You get my point, though.
    Last edited by sofawall; 2010-02-03 at 03:06 AM.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Non-casting wand slinger?

    Quote Originally Posted by ShneekeyTheLost View Post
    *groans* Okay... I take 2d4 SAN damage... and file the pun away for future use
    -blows on fingers-
    That's how I roll ;)
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    You seem to be having trouble with the idea that a rulebook can contradict itself, because it shouldn't, but...WotC.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Non-casting wand slinger?

    Gnome (spell like abilities)
    Practiced spellcasting (+4 lvl)

    TAADAA!

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    Default Re: [3.5] Non-casting wand slinger?

    I like the idea of taking Hulking Hurler, and making a Wand Slinger Slinger. You know, you grab a couple of those skinny mages, one in each hand, and you send them hurtling in parabolic trajectories while they are raining down heavily metamagiced Scorching Rays from wands.

    I'm thinking Leadership would be required.
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    Default Re: [3.5] Non-casting wand slinger?

    Quote Originally Posted by BigBadBugbear View Post
    Gnome (spell like abilities)
    Practiced spellcasting (+4 lvl)

    TAADAA!
    Didn't I just disprove basically this exact thing?

    Gnome is not a spellcasting class. Therefore, Practiced Caster cannot be applied.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Non-casting wand slinger?

    Quote Originally Posted by sofawall View Post
    <snip>
    Thanks for respecting other people's threads. It's not like there are already 1000 existing threads to argue this point in.

    ...I know there is no "ownership" of threads that you create on these forums, but I like to think that people can extend a little common courtesy to fellow board members.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Non-casting wand slinger?

    Quote Originally Posted by Keld Denar View Post
    I like the idea of taking Hulking Hurler, and making a Wand Slinger Slinger. You know, you grab a couple of those skinny mages, one in each hand, and you send them hurtling in parabolic trajectories while they are raining down heavily metamagiced Scorching Rays from wands.

    I'm thinking Leadership would be required.
    Raptoran Rogues?
    Some men just want to watch the world shift uncomfortably in its seat.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kylarra View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by absolmorph View Post
    I happen to like screwing around with Handle Animal.
    Red Mage, is that you?
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    Now you're cranking it up to eleven.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dimonite View Post
    A week ago, I didn't know who you were. Now I know: you're the BEST PERSON EVER.
    Quote Originally Posted by noparlpf View Post
    You seem to be having trouble with the idea that a rulebook can contradict itself, because it shouldn't, but...WotC.

    If you're reading this for some reason, you can find me in a few places on the web as azoicennead.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Non-casting wand slinger?

    I responded to a point made in the thread. It may not have fit the OP, but it did fit the thread, and as Roland has said many a time, the OP does not own the thread.

    Second, the issue did not warrant a thread of its own, as it was a simple one point proof.

    Third, there are no threads arguing the merits of ubercharge damage vs. Glaivelock (as there is nothing to argue, really), or at least none recent enough to avoid breaking the rule against thread necromancy.

    Forth, I'll go put it in a spoiler if it makes you happy.

    Fifth, the thread is already going off topic. How is replying to Schneekys post any worse than Slinging Slingers?

    EDIT: Sixth, I hear Metamagic Wand Grips are pricey in wand charges, but useful for laying down hurt.
    Last edited by sofawall; 2010-02-03 at 03:10 AM.

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