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  1. - Top - End - #1
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    Default Friendly Variant (no PvP)

    I'd like to house-rule that PvP attacks are banned. To me, directly attacking other player-characters seems to go against the OotS ethos (Explosive Runes is just a bit of fun, after all...). And it could create bad feeling round the gaming table. Besides, there's plenty of scope for indirectly hindering other PCs via Sc*ew This cards, refusing to help, etc.

    There don't seem to be too many PvP shticks to make alternative rules for. But has someone done this already? And are there other pitfalls with this approach?
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    Default Re: Friendly Variant (no PvP)

    Biggest pitfalls to the non Pvp approach is lack of shticks and shtick effectiveness. Half of Roy's shticks are Pvp! (Ok, not half, but a lot.) Belkar and Haley take a few hits themselves.
    The best way to counter useless shticks is to rule no Pvp and then have all players place their strictly Pvp cards face up at the bottom of their shtick decks. (I say strictly because some cards also have bonuses for non-Pvp as well, like Joy of Killing) Issue with that, however, is the nerfed Shtick Decks are acquired quickly, while Durkon still has to get all 20 shticks.

    My group takes an interesting approach to modding no Pvp. We've tried a lot of different things, but the version we like best is "Communal Loot" and the necessary alterations that go along with it.

    Communal Loot is essentially a giant Loot pile that everyone uses (no Pvp, obviously), and all Loot drawn goes directly into that pile. Start by only having 1 Loot per person playing (drawn randomly) A player battling is allowed to use a specific Loot to equip or call for help if half or more of the group is fine with it. (Gourd of Speed cannot be used when the dungeon is collapsing.) If a player must discard Loot due to Thief, etc, it comes from the Communal Pile. ALSO, if a player uses Loot to call for assistance, the Loot is discarded.

    Communal Loot is great, but only if you're player pure Co-op. Otherwise, Roy would dominate with his ability to bait-and-switch anyone's Loot for Elan's boosted help (with Bard Songs). We usually use this in tandem with a more role-playing version: we buff the crap out of Xykon, and then deck out Roy and have them showdown.
    Also, in order to handicap the abusive abilities that can come from CL, we ruled that in order to give Loot to a player X that is already being worn by player Y, both players must be in the same (empty) room.

    Communal Loot's greatest strength is that it requires all players to work together to gain xp. Roy, V, and Belkar will absolutely dominate monsters, and Durkon and Elan are left with no xp to gain. This is highly detrimental to the party, since Durkon needs multiple heals, and Elan's Bard Song boosted all four times is invaluable when fighting a seriously buffed Xykon. (Seriously though, we modded him so that he ended with 138 attack/def.)

    So, take what you will from this! My group has a lot of mods to this game, and we love it. We played for 8 1/2 straight hours once. We won, it was epic.
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  3. - Top - End - #3
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    Default Re: Friendly Variant (no PvP)

    Quote Originally Posted by Zelthax View Post
    Biggest pitfalls to the non Pvp approach is lack of shticks and shtick effectiveness. ... We've tried a lot of different things, but the version we like best is "Communal Loot"...
    Many thanks for that! I'd like to keep more inter-player competition than with your CL method though. I'm aiming for mods to the PvP shticks - preferably as simple and as close to their original uses as possible, yet still balanced.

    Here are the shticks that may need changing for the "No PvP Attacks" houserule, and my ideas so far for their mods:

    ROY
    Party Leader Veto: Flip to cancel and take any 'Screw This!' just played.
    No Rest for the Weary: Roll 4+ to avoid any "miss a turn" effect.
    Logic (x2): Versus Bandit/Dwarf/Elf/Human; move them to adjacent room.
    It's Called Foreshadowing: OK!

    DURKON
    Goblinthwacker: Versus (Goblin) + Orc/Ogre/Elf.
    Incomprehensible Accent: Versus (Human) + Goblin/Orc/Elf.

    HALEY
    Second-in-Command: Un-flip another player's shtick and they must pay you one loot.
    Swipe: Gain one loot card from the attacked monster even if you lose (but not draw) the battle.
    Ridiculous Bluff (x2): May only battle monsters (of course - no PvP, duh!) but if you win it takes a wound and you may also take one equipped loot or random stashed loot from a player in the room.

    ELAN
    Conscience Angel: Flip if you refuse to help another player.
    Wacky Hijinks: OK.

    VAARSUVIUS
    Ambiguous Gender: Works against monsters with type Bandit/Human/Dwarf.
    Penultimate Arcane Power (x2): When you defeat a Spellcaster monster you can draw a battle card.
    Secrets That Will Drive you MAD!: Versus (Creepy-crawly) + Dragons.

    BELKAR
    Probably Evil: OK!
    Deep-Seated Emotional Problems: One damage per turn can be given to another player in the same room (a wound hits someone else, not you).
    Doesn't Play Well With Others: Flip to "kill-steal" a monster you just aided another player to defeat (you keep it for experience, not them).
    Keen Nose: OK.
    Twin Daggers of Doom (x2): (Boost) Ignore one level of Multi-attack ability.

    ...and a couple of "Screw This!" cards need attention, too:

    Karma-riffic! : "Attacks another player" means using a Shtick or "Screw This!" card which causes them to lose a wound.

    Saw It Coming : Play at any time; the +3 Defence is against anything (until the end of the current turn, as usual).
    Last edited by frogspawner; 2010-02-10 at 12:41 PM. Reason: Added "Screw This!" mods + Clarified Belkar's DSEP
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    Default Re: Friendly Variant (no PvP)

    These are certainly good ideas for mods!

    I'll see if we can put a few into practice, so I can give you decent feedback.
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    Default Re: Friendly Variant (no PvP)

    Thanks again! Not sure when I'll actually get the chance to play-test...

    (PS: Just clarified Belkar's DSEP mod - it read like he caused damage just by standing next to other PCs, which wasn't what I meant, however realistic!)
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    Default Re: Friendly Variant (no PvP)

    Belkar is the character that needs the most work, since his entire schtick in the game seems to be PvP.

    I found changing the boost for TWoD to something like Roy, Haley and Durkon's weapon schtick is a good start. Gives Belkar's player an incentive to fight monsters, rather than the other players' characters.
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    Default Re: Friendly Variant (no PvP)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kiero View Post
    Belkar is the character that needs the most work....
    That's what I thought too - but when I actually looked, I saw he's only got just the same number of anti-player shticks as Roy, Haley or V!

    And for Twin Daggers of Doom, surprisingly only the Boost-effect needs a fix. The changes I've proposed (see above) to the other two PvP shticks (Deep Seated Emotional Problems, Doesn't Play Well With Others) try to keep the idea it's unhealthy to be near him and not to ask him for help unless you really must, though. Take a look (above) and please let me know what you think.
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    Default Re: Friendly Variant (no PvP)

    Quote Originally Posted by frogspawner View Post
    That's what I thought too - but when I actually looked, I saw he's only got just the same number of anti-player shticks as Roy, Haley or V!

    And for Twin Daggers of Doom, surprisingly only the Boost-effect needs a fix. The changes I've proposed (see above) to the other two PvP shticks (Deep Seated Emotional Problems, Doesn't Play Well With Others) try to keep the idea it's unhealthy to be near him and not to ask him for help unless you really must, though. Take a look (above) and please let me know what you think.
    The TDoD boost (as written) is the lynchpin though, because it makes Belkar's player totally ineffective against monsters. Leaving them reliant on all the antagonistic PvP shticks they have in their hand.

    By contrast Roy and Haley's players can enjoy killing monsters and getting their loot, and can mostly ignore their PvP shticks. You can easily work a friendly agreement around the table not to use those, with Belkar's player nothing works unless you fix his shticks, or as we often did, don't play him.
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    Default Re: Friendly Variant (no PvP)

    I would not call the TDoD a lynchpin. There are precisely 2 TDoD in Belkar's shtick Deck, and you start with one. +3 attack is the best (killing) shtick anyone's got at the beginning of the game! So there's no Pvp, that renders the second TDoD useless. Roy's Logic attack (2 shticks), for example, would also be rendered useless.

    Not to mention that "Leaping Attack" boosts the TDoD by 1 attack. And you can start with that! That's +4 (killing) attack walking into the dungeon.

    In fact, Belkar has only 3 "purely Pvp" cards (That is, cards which have absolutely no value with Pvp removed):

    Doesn't Play Well With Others
    Deep-Seated Emotional Problems
    (The second) Twin Daggers of Doom

    Every other of his cards can be used un-modded. That's 17 shticks. Belkar is plenty playable non-Pvp.
    Belkar with his three Leaping attacks has atk +6 base. If he rages, +9. (And the Hated enemy can provide a +3 atk/def bonus against specific monsters and Joy of Killing gives +2 to Duel or Bloodlust.)
    That's a huge atk bonus. Second only to Roy, who is specifically built to slash through monsters.

    Also, Belkar can easily kill-steal monster with the Leaping attack. Schadenfreude gives him a free heal for being on the same floor as a player who lost a battle.

    Belkar is built for Pvp combat, but he also sports a ridiculously high attack if he's played correctly. And the "Joy of Killing" can help him pull that extra xp to get more cards. His passive skills are few, yes, but you should always be on the move as our little halfling friend. No one has the pure atk capacity that Roy does after a few Cleaves, but Roy has to be thwarted.

    In conclusion, Belkar is a good character. He's fairly straightforward in terms of play style, the only tricky part about him is getting certain shticks at certain times. He's not the xp farm the V is, but he gets his fair share, and has the advantage of sniping like V and Haley with the added bonus of Loot collection.
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    Default Re: Friendly Variant (no PvP)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kiero View Post
    The TDoD boost (as written) is the lynchpin though, because it makes Belkar's player totally ineffective against monsters.
    So in a non-PvP game, is my suggested "ignore one level of multi-attack" alternative (to the TDoD boost "+1 wound v players") good enough, d'y'reckon?

    (I've not yet playtested it; any feedback would be welcome).
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    Default Re: Friendly Variant (no PvP)

    Quote Originally Posted by Zelthax View Post
    Also, Belkar can easily kill-steal monster with the Leaping attack. Schadenfreude gives him a free heal for being on the same floor as a player who lost a battle.

    Belkar is built for Pvp combat, but he also sports a ridiculously high attack if he's played correctly. And the "Joy of Killing" can help him pull that extra xp to get more cards. His passive skills are few, yes, but you should always be on the move as our little halfling friend. No one has the pure atk capacity that Roy does after a few Cleaves, but Roy has to be thwarted.

    In conclusion, Belkar is a good character. He's fairly straightforward in terms of play style, the only tricky part about him is getting certain shticks at certain times. He's not the xp farm the V is, but he gets his fair share, and has the advantage of sniping like V and Haley with the added bonus of Loot collection.
    Attack is worthless, especially as the game progresses and the other characters get better, all the battles happen on entering a new room and fighting on the defense. So at the beginning Belkar's player might be able to clean up the scraps of whatever others can't handle, but by the end he's getting beaten up by monsters he triggers and waiting around for the rare occassion someone else can't defeat something.

    Quote Originally Posted by frogspawner View Post
    So in a non-PvP game, is my suggested "ignore one level of multi-attack" alternative (to the TDoD boost "+1 wound v players") good enough, d'y'reckon?

    (I've not yet playtested it; any feedback would be welcome).
    Sorry, I don't think it's of any use. Better to give him the same kind of boost as Roy, Haley and Durkon's Weapon Shticks (ie a bonus to Defense). I changed one of the more annoying PvP Shticks to another boost on my modified TDoD.

    Switch one of his other Shticks to multi-attack ignoring, but his main fighting Shtick needs to be as useful as that of the others.

    EDIT: In fact here's my changes:

    Belkar: "Twin Daggers of Doom" Boost changed to +2 Defense. "Deep Seated Emotional Problems" changed to a Boost on "Twin Daggers of Doom". "Doesn't Play Well With Others" changed to another "Victory Taunt".

    And a minor tweak to Elan, "Conscience Demon" changed to another Boost on "Rapier".

    Our other house rules are that characters begin the game with all four of their starting Shticks, plus two others and six pieces of Loot.
    Last edited by Kiero; 2010-03-02 at 06:41 AM.
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    Default Re: Friendly Variant (no PvP)

    Attack is far from worthless. At the end of the game, attack is more important. Yes, you must still use defense to enter a room, but when you're playing on dungeon level 5, that's at least 4 other monsters in the room that you can use attack on. Either trigger the battle and take a hit because of low defense, or wait until someone else triggers a battle they don't want to fight and leap in. Once you're in, you can start with attack. You can also ask for help with higher success rate since you're not attacking everyone.

    You're never going to clean up Roy, it's true. But Elan will push monsters around, and Haley will Swipe, etc, leaving monsters to kill. And if worst comes to worst, stay on the upper levels and gain xp and Loot. Build of shticks, descend.

    You can't use the same Hack-and-slash approach with Belkar that you can with Roy, or the same tanking procedure you use with Elan and Durkon.
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    Default Re: Friendly Variant (no PvP)

    Staying on the upper levels is a recipe for ending up 3rd, 4th or worse. Hack and slash (since you get XP and Loot) is by far the most effective strategy.

    As it stands, the only way Belkar's player can interrupt this inevitability is by annoying everyone else and dragging the game out interminably.
    Last edited by Kiero; 2010-03-02 at 08:49 AM.
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    Default Re: Friendly Variant (no PvP)

    If the only way you've been playing Belkar is Hack-and-Slash, it's no wonder you've ended up 3rd, 4th, and worse. Belkar's job is to be unpredictable: he wants to help the team to gain trust, then suddenly turn on everyone and reap the rewards. When you remove the Pvp combat aspect, things change.

    I'm not sure what you mean by
    ...Hack and slash (since you get XP and Loot)...
    You can have a subtle play style and still get plenty of Loot and XP.

    Without Defense (as you stated), you can't just trigger a battle every time you get the chance. You'll have to rest or ask Durkon for healing constantly. You have to play tough monsters for other characters, pay attention to character turn order, know the fastest way to get places, utilize the rooms, etc. The Pit of Outdated Monsters is XP haven for Belkar: trigger battles there (With Joy of Killing).

    "Staying on the upper levels" doesn't refer to hanging out on level 2 while Roy's Cleaving through Level 6. It means don't always chomp at the bit to explore new rooms in the mid game. Hang around on known levels until a few other characters descend, then follow.
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    Default Re: Friendly Variant (no PvP)

    Quote Originally Posted by Zelthax View Post
    If the only way you've been playing Belkar is Hack-and-Slash, it's no wonder you've ended up 3rd, 4th, and worse. Belkar's job is to be unpredictable: he wants to help the team to gain trust, then suddenly turn on everyone and reap the rewards. When you remove the Pvp combat aspect, things change.
    Like I said, annoy everyone else and slow the game down. Not tolerated at my table, the game is slow enough as it is. That's why our initial reaction was to simply ban playing Belkar altogether.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zelthax View Post
    I'm not sure what you mean by
    You can have a subtle play style and still get plenty of Loot and XP.

    Without Defense (as you stated), you can't just trigger a battle every time you get the chance. You'll have to rest or ask Durkon for healing constantly. You have to play tough monsters for other characters, pay attention to character turn order, know the fastest way to get places, utilize the rooms, etc. The Pit of Outdated Monsters is XP haven for Belkar: trigger battles there (With Joy of Killing).

    "Staying on the upper levels" doesn't refer to hanging out on level 2 while Roy's Cleaving through Level 6. It means don't always chomp at the bit to explore new rooms in the mid game. Hang around on known levels until a few other characters descend, then follow.
    If you spend every turn marching into a room, triggering a battle, killing monsters and getting their Loot, you get much further ahead of those who have to alternate turns of moving and triggering battles, or else waiting for someone else to do the same. The further the game progresses, the fewer the opportunities to clean up someone else's scraps.

    Being furthest ahead also means being more likely to be the one who kills Xykon, though unless you've got some means of taking an additional turn you are often one of the last out.
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    Default Re: Friendly Variant (no PvP)

    Like I said, annoy everyone else and slow the game down. Not tolerated at my table, the game is slow enough as it is. That's why our initial reaction was to simply ban playing Belkar altogether.
    You don't tolerate a fundamental game mechanic?

    If you spend every turn marching into a room, triggering a battle, killing monsters and getting their Loot, you get much further ahead of those who have to alternate turns of moving and triggering battles, or else waiting for someone else to do the same.
    This is completely true and I support it. But you don't have to be exploring a new room to kill monsters. Characters who can't handle hordes of monsters should fight in comfortable areas, usually a floor above the rest of the party. Pvp characters don't need to fight monsters every turn though-Belkar can get xp from it and Haley can get Loot- , and wiping out other players makes them return to the top of the dungeon, making it that much easier for you to collect Loot and get kills.

    The further the game progresses, the fewer the opportunities to clean up someone else's scraps.
    Also true, which is why the beginning of the game must be played well. If you get way behind early, you're done. This is true for any player.

    Being furthest ahead also means being more likely to be the one who kills Xykon,[...]
    Being further ahead makes you more likely to find the stairs down. Not more likely to kill Xykon. If the party gets to the bottom of the regular dungeon, you should be nearby anyway. Even if you're the first to find stairs down, there's still the safe haven. And then searching in Xykon's Lair.

    Once the stairs are down, everyone rushes the bottom floor. If you're hanging out a floor above the rest of the party, you're not that far from it.
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    Default Re: Friendly Variant (no PvP)

    Quote Originally Posted by Zelthax View Post
    The Pit of Outdated Monsters is XP haven for Belkar: trigger battles there (With Joy of Killing).
    Joy of Killing says "You may treat Monsters with no X icons as if they had one X icon, thus allowing you to save them for gaining new shticks."

    The Pit of Outdated Monsters says "This room is filled to the brim with vile and ill-conceived beasts. Any Monster killed in this room cannot be saved to trade in for shticks; discard them instead"

    even with Joy of Killing Belkar gets no exp in that room, unless he attacks a player while having Doesn't Play Well With Others unflipped.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kiero View Post
    Belkar: "Twin Daggers of Doom" Boost changed to +2 Defense. "Deep Seated Emotional Problems" changed to a Boost on "Twin Daggers of Doom".
    this seems to be a bad idea to me. with a +2 def boost effect Belkar swings out of proportion.
    4X leaping attack (ring of jumping) + 4X twin daggers ( DSEP + Magic Daggers) results is a 7/7 character with attack range 4(possibly gaining extra movement).
    Haley for contrast:
    2X longbow + 3X sneak attack = 5/5. With the conditional Secret Crush bonus = 6/6.
    Also take into account Belkar keeps his attack at range 4, but Haley only has 2 attack range 2-6.
    Roy:
    4XGreenhilt Sword(starmetal chunk) = 8/5(+3/+2 with 3X Great Cleavage(glory) per enemy killed)

    Durkon:
    2X Thor's Hammer = 2/4
    3X Thor's Lightning = 6/4
    Turn Undead = 6/8
    all +1/+1 with Divine Intervention of Thor.
    think about it, if can only roll 2-13 instead of 1-12 you basically have +1 to all die rolls =).

    Elan:
    2X rapier(magic rapier) 3/3
    3X poorly-planned illusion = 10/10 but can't kill any mobs so gives no XP
    3X X-Treme Diplomacy(megaphone) = 3/5

    Conscience Angel + Chain Shirt(assuming no breath attack) = +0/+3
    Conscience Demon +1/+0

    V:
    3X magic missile(ancient scroll bonus) = 1/5
    3X lighting bolt = 7/3
    fireball = 5/na

    As you can see this change switches the power level of Belkar too much, making him a better base character than all the others. Roy has 1 more attack by can't fight flyers, Durkon can gain 2 more defence but only against undead, elan has 1 more defence when not fighting a breath attack mob, and the others can only boast the same or less combat stats. This is an unbalancing change, +1 defence would be better but still wrong in my eyes.

    Values calculated using no flip effects that are purely a bonus (Halfling Rage, Lute) and no bonuses that are highly situational(Obscure alchemical arrows, Dumb as Mud, MBA, etc.)
    Last edited by Silanthous; 2010-03-03 at 05:48 AM.

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    Default Re: Friendly Variant (no PvP)

    Quote Originally Posted by Zelthax View Post
    You don't tolerate a fundamental game mechanic?
    The game already runs slow, that's annoying behaviour that also slows things down still further.
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    Default Re: Friendly Variant (no PvP)

    Quote Originally Posted by Silanthous View Post
    Joy of Killing says "You may treat Monsters with no X icons as if they had one X icon, thus allowing you to save them for gaining new shticks."

    The Pit of Outdated Monsters says "This room is filled to the brim with vile and ill-conceived beasts. Any Monster killed in this room cannot be saved to trade in for shticks; discard them instead"

    even with Joy of Killing Belkar gets no exp in that room, unless he attacks a player while having Doesn't Play Well With Others unflipped.
    Sorry, I must have been thinking of the mod we use. My bad!

    Quote Originally Posted by Silanthous View Post
    Values calculated using no flip effects that are purely a bonus (Halfling Rage, Lute) and no bonuses that are highly situational(Obscure alchemical arrows, Dumb as Mud, MBA, etc.)
    I used Halfling Rage as a side note, because it isn't enemy specific like Favored Enemy; that is, you can use it against any enemy when you see fit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kiero View Post
    The game already runs slow, that's annoying behaviour that also slows things down still further.
    "That's annoying behavior"? That's the point of the game! Well, half the point anyway. When playing, you can choose to ignore everyone else and just power through, making it a race to see who gets the most monster kills, or you can slow the other players down enough to where they don't get what they need to withstand the Lower levels of the dungeon. And if your group is seriously tired of Belkar nagging people, gang up on him! Send him running to the beginning of the dungeon a few times, and that will keep him in line.

    Also, when you sit down to play OotS, you're in for the long haul. Expect it to take a while.
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    Default Re: Friendly Variant (no PvP)

    Quote Originally Posted by Zelthax View Post
    "That's annoying behavior"? That's the point of the game! Well, half the point anyway. When playing, you can choose to ignore everyone else and just power through, making it a race to see who gets the most monster kills, or you can slow the other players down enough to where they don't get what they need to withstand the Lower levels of the dungeon. And if your group is seriously tired of Belkar nagging people, gang up on him! Send him running to the beginning of the dungeon a few times, and that will keep him in line.

    Also, when you sit down to play OotS, you're in for the long haul. Expect it to take a while.
    We play co-operatively in the main, slowing the others down isn't appreciated because you're dragging out the conclusion. No one has the patience for a game that lasts more than four hours.

    That right there is why we don't play it any more. We'd been hoping the The Shortening that we might get some neat fixes to speed things up. That's not coming, so we'd rather play Talisman.
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    Default Re: Friendly Variant (no PvP)

    Co-op play is a blast, and my group frequently plays pure co-op. But if you all work together:
    1) Winning shouldn't matter
    2) Players should let other players gain xp if they need it.
    (Consider trying my Communal Loot mod from earlier in the thread!)

    When we play co-op, we let Durkon and Elan go to town on the upper levels to get xp to support Roy/Belkar in the lower levels (6-8 and such). V and Haley are clean-up and kill particularly tough monsters from afar.

    If you want to shorten OotS, consider length-modding instead of Pvp modding:

    - Less floors (obviously)
    - Start with all four Red Shticks and draw randomly a fifth
    - 6 Rooms on each dungeon floor (as opposed to eight)
    - Rolling 4 or lower finds stairs
    - Rolling for a chance to find monsters in already explored rooms as opposed to always triggering battles in empty rooms
    --Ex. Assign a "Discovery Chance" number to each level (floor 1: 3, floor 2:4, floor 3: 5, etc) Every time you explore a new room, there's a new battle. If you enter a room that's already there, roll a die. If you roll the Dungeon Level's "Discovery Chance" or lower, a battle is triggered. If not, no battle, you may pick up loot, search for stairs, etc.

    The last mod encourages exploration, and therefore pushes players down faster.
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    Default Re: Friendly Variant (no PvP)

    We already have houserules to do most of those things (we generally play three levels + Xykon, everyone starts with all four starting Shticks plus two others and six Loot); we still haven't had a single game finish in under five hours.

    We play co-op from the point of view of everyone says yes to assistance, but it still matters who wins.
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    Default Re: Friendly Variant (no PvP)

    Hrm. I've played mostly Competitive games with 3 people and managed to finish in 4 hours or so. Managed a 3 hour game once. I'm not sure how you manage to have such long games. Good luck shortening them!
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    Default Re: Friendly Variant (no PvP)

    In this post I wrote down most of the rules i used to shorten the game, not that different to what you've been trying. I had some success, having 2 games with six people around the 3 hour mark.
    The game might hit the table next week, i'll keep posting what i have tried and how it worked. I have thought of some more houserules, but not intended to directly shorten the game.
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    Default Re: Friendly Variant (no PvP)

    I like these rules! I have one small issue:

    I feel that the "discard a Screw This to skip playing a monster", while it fits its intended purpose, is a little out of sync with the game. I believe a lot of the tension of the game comes when a few players have only powerful monsters left. Even in pure co-op, I think it's necessary. It gives more strength to story aspect (Oh man, I think I hear Trolls down there! Better get ready to fight them! ).

    It also balances Roy a little more. If players need their hands cleaned out, he can use It's Called Foreshadowing. Now Roy (who is generally a little stronger than everyone, and has been accused of being OP) must consider risking another round before resting or getting that Shtick back to weed out the tougher monsters.

    If you're trying to get the game done in three hours, your rule may be necessary, though.
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    Default Re: Friendly Variant (no PvP)

    Quote Originally Posted by Zelthax View Post
    I like these rules! I have one small issue:
    I feel that the "discard a Screw This to skip playing a monster", while it fits its intended purpose, is a little out of sync with the game.
    I think you misunderstood the 2 different rules i posted. One is to discard a monster to skip playing one and the other one is discarding a Screw This card to avoid triggering a new fight in an already explored room (can't be done in new rooms).
    The discard a Screw This is intended to go and pick up loot without having to fight again, so it's to benefit you and to be able to make good use of those useless Screw This you happen to have from time to time. Still, this one wasn't used.
    The discard a monster to skip playing one was used and it was used to screw the player triggering the battle, discarding a weak monster so another player could play a monster that supports the top monster. We don't play nice, really.
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    Default Re: Friendly Variant (no PvP)

    I think you misunderstood the 2 different rules i posted. One is to discard a monster to skip playing one and the other one is discarding a Screw This card to avoid triggering a new fight in an already explored room (can't be done in new rooms).
    Whoops, sorry about that, I meant to put the correct thing down....

    The discard a monster to skip playing one was used and it was used to screw the player triggering the battle, discarding a weak monster so another player could play a monster that supports the top monster. We don't play nice, really.
    Ok. That makes sense. I suppose I was thinking about it differently.
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