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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    Spash's Avatar

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    Feb 2010

    Default Question About Fairness

    My two brothers and I were playing the OotS board game the other day and they started getting annoyed and quit, saying that my character was "stronger" than theirs, and I can actually see their point. I was Roy while my brothers were Vaarsuvius and Belkar, and by the time we got to the third floor I already had about 10 shticks and a huge pile of loot while they only had 5 each and maybe 2 or 3 loot. And we'd played the game before, and every time I won playing as Roy, and the only time I didn't win was while I was playing as Elan. I've also noticed that Roy's play style is significantly different from the other players;

    Haley's point is to collect as much loot as she can.

    Elan and Durkon's points are to heal other players so that they'll like them better and give them their loot.

    Belkar's point is to beat up the other players, which in the long run really only gives him their loot every time he defeats a fellow player (or makes them flee the dungeon).

    Roy's point is to get so strong that he can charge through enemy monsters with ease (which gives you loot anyways) so that he can get even stronger and be the first to beat Xykon.

    (I'll admit Vaarsuvius's point has nothing to do with loot at all, since sniping enemies from a distance doesn't even give you any loot, but then again I'm not really sure what V's point is, so...)

    And grabbing loot isn't even a very efficient way of winning anyways, since you can only pick up about 1 or 2 (not counting Haley) per turn, AND only about 1/6 of it will even ever be loot your character drools over anyways, not to mention the risk of traps! I suppose if you got enough of other people's loot, you could trade it to them to stand a better chance against the monsters, but by the time you have enough shticks to fight without trading as much loot, Roy's already way ahead of you!

    Anyways, I was just wondering if anybody else has ever noticed Roy being stronger than the other players, or if my brothers and I were doing something wrong...

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Halfling in the Playground
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    Jun 2007

    Default Re: Question About Fairness

    Quote Originally Posted by Spash View Post
    Elan and Durkon's points are to heal other players so that they'll like them better and give them their loot.
    Elan can also do very well in battle, depending on his shtick draws. 2x Diplomacy + Chain Shirt + Conscience Angel = 6 non-flipping defense, or 8 if he gets the megaphone. He's the strongest defensive character.

    Anyways, I was just wondering if anybody else has ever noticed Roy being stronger than the other players, or if my brothers and I were doing something wrong...
    Roy is certainly one of the easiest characters to play. He and Haley are both pretty straightforward--bang on monsters and grab whatever loot you can along the wway. Vaarsuvius and Belkar are the trickiest. They can do well, but you have to be more creative and coordinate their shticks. For example, Belkar can use Keen Nose to see what the next player has, and then use Poor Tracking Skills to stop them from playing a monster that doesn't match his Hated Enemy.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    Spash's Avatar

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    Feb 2010

    Default Re: Question About Fairness

    Quote Originally Posted by prj View Post
    Vaarsuvius and Belkar are the trickiest. They can do well, but you have to be more creative and coordinate their shticks. For example, Belkar can use Keen Nose to see what the next player has, and then use Poor Tracking Skills to stop them from playing a monster that doesn't match his Hated Enemy.
    So then you're saying that Roy is just an easier character to use, and since the other two players were being harder characters, there seemed to be an "unfair advantage"?

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Halfling in the Playground
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    Jun 2007

    Default Re: Question About Fairness

    Quote Originally Posted by Spash View Post
    So then you're saying that Roy is just an easier character to use, and since the other two players were being harder characters, there seemed to be an "unfair advantage"?
    You could say that. In particular, if you try to play Belkar or V the same way you would play Roy, you'll do badly. That will make it seem like Belkar and V are weaker than they really are. (They're probably still somewhat weaker, even when played well, but it'll only be worse if you try to play them like other characters.)

    In our games, we usually rig the character selection so that nobody gets Belkar or V unless they're willing to try the challenge.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Pixie in the Playground
     
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    Feb 2010

    Default Re: Question About Fairness

    Quote Originally Posted by prj View Post
    You could say that. In particular, if you try to play Belkar or V the same way you would play Roy, you'll do badly. That will make it seem like Belkar and V are weaker than they really are. (They're probably still somewhat weaker, even when played well, but it'll only be worse if you try to play them like other characters.)

    In our games, we usually rig the character selection so that nobody gets Belkar or V unless they're willing to try the challenge.
    I see. Thanks for straightening that out for me.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    Zelthax's Avatar

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    Default Re: Question About Fairness

    In my experience, V has always been the highest xp character hands down. Fireball mops up lower level monsters, and lightning bolt does ridiculous long range damage. The issue with V is getting Loot. I played an 8 level dungeon, and my friend as V couldn't enter Xykon's lair, because he was over 20 Loot short, but had 17 shticks.

    I have admittedly only played a game with a Belkar once. However, if he manages to get a few particularly effective shticks (like Joy of Killing), he can really rake in the xp, what with a potential attack base of 8 (plus more for Hated Enemy and such).

    Elan has trouble getting the necessary xp needed for leveling, but get a few bard songs, and the "Fun" Loot card becomes the most valuable in the game.

    I've never seen Haley played well. I'm not really sure I understand exactly how to play her. Just kinda run around and get Loot, I suppose.

    Durkon's a little underpowered, IMO. If characters are near the top of the dungeon, they just leave. If they're in mid dungeon, they rest and pick up two Loot. If they're near the bottom, they don't need a whole lot of healing, because they're so strong.

    And finally Roy. The only real way to stop Roy from getting that second Great cleavage is to kill-steal. If the other players are determined to not let him level up, he's done. That's why he has so many Pvp shticks. He's quite simple to play well, really; but to master him, you need to have a lot of experience playing hostile games. Belkar and Haley will keep him on his toes, and a good shot or two from V, and he's stuck with 5 shticks while the rest are fighting Xykon.

    So to this:

    So then you're saying that Roy is just an easier character to use, and since the other two players were being harder characters, there seemed to be an "unfair advantage"?
    Pretty dang close there. Roy is easier, but you gotta make life tough for him to balance the game (kinda like in the comic!).
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  7. - Top - End - #7
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    Spash's Avatar

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    Feb 2010

    Default Re: Question About Fairness

    Okay, one of my brothers and I were just playing the game. I was Belkar while he was Roy, and I won (albiet by only 1 bragging point), and, now that I have played Belkar myself, I have determined that he's not as weak compared to Roy as I had previously thought (although Roy's still stronger than him, just not by as much). With Leaping Attack boosted twice and Talisman of Dorukan, I managed to get my standard attack to about 5 or 6, I think, plus the die roll. Although my defense was still pretty low, since boosting Daggers doesn't change their attack/defense, and Leaping only increases attack... Oh, and attacking Roy didn't really accomplish as much as it was meant to, since Roy could just Part Leader Veto my Twin Daggers of Doom and use Logic for a relatively high defense (and even if I did use enough Loot to beat him, it wouldn't really be worth it).

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    Zelthax's Avatar

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    Default Re: Question About Fairness

    Roy is pretty well equipped to handle himself against party griefing. You gotta see what shticks he's pulling- if they're all good v monsters (MBA, Great Cleave, Bag of tricks, lots of greatswords), wail on him. Make him rue being within 3 spaces of you. If he's pulling the good Pvp shticks, just kill-steal until he's contemplating attacking you.

    Eventually, he'll acquire enough shticks to pretty well stand alone without much help. But getting ahead early against Roy is invaluable.

    Also, when I mentioned "making life tough for him," I wasn't limiting that to merely attacking him-
    Kill stealing, playing tough monsters, picking up Loot in his room, refusing to provide assistance, using Screw This Cards to annoy him- all these things need to be balanced to hinder Roy.
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