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2010-08-07, 12:51 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!
Well, I felt like making another class, and the Lantern Archon caught my eye.
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Lantern Archon
Spoiler
HD:d6
{table]Level|Bab|Fort|Ref|Will|Feature
1|+ 1|+0 |+ 2| +0| Body of Light, Light Ray, Lesser Guide
2|+ 2|+0 |+ 3| +0| Archon, Holy Warding, Aura of Menace, Greater Guide
[/table]
Skills:4+int modifier per level, Class skills are Concentration, Diplomacy, Disguise, Heal, Knowledge (the planes), Listen, Search, Sense Motive, Spot
Proficiencies: The Lantern Archon is proficient with its light rays.
Features:
Body of Light: The Lantern Archon loses all other racial bonuses and gains outsider traits (basicaly dark vision 60 ft), as well as low-light vision. Lantern Archons are tiny outsiders. Lantern Archons have no land speed but have a fly speed of 20ft, increasing by 5ft per HD. They also glow, giving light as brightly as a torch. Only their destruction can extinguish the glow, though they can try to hide it with a DC 15 Disguise check. Success means that no light is given out by the archon for 1 hour per HD. The Lantern Archon gains a bonus to natural armor equal to its Con bonus. Lantern Archons lack fine manipulation, and cannot wield equipment. It also lacks the Hide bonus from it's size, unless it hides its light.
Light Ray: The Lantern Archon's method of attack are it's light rays. The Lantern Archon starts with one ray, but gains one more for every 5HD ti possesses. The rays have a range of 20ft, increasing by 5ft for every HD the Lantern Archon possesses. The rays start out dealing 1d6 damage, increasing by 1d6 for every 3HD the Archon possesses. The light rays also overcome all DR, and count as natural weapons.
Lesser Guide: The Lantern archon can use aid, continual flame, detect evil and [1]Mage Hand[/i] as SLAs, DC=10+1/2HD+Cha mod. Unless the lantern archon uses the 50Gp of ruby dust, his continual flames just last 1 minute per CL instead of being permanent. If it multiclasses into cleric it can count its lantern archon levels as levels of that class for purposes of CL and for the purposes of learning new spells and geting new spell slots. So for example, a lantern archon 2 who took 1 level of cleric could choose to have CL 4, get 1 2nd level spell slot. She wouldn't get the spell slots of a cleric 2 however. She would get the turn undead ability, but lantern archon levels wouldn't count for it.
Archon: At second level, the Lantern Archon becomes immune to petrification and gains a resistance to electricity equal to its HD, and a bonus to saves against poison equal to half it's HD. They also gain the good and lawful subtype.
Aura of Menace (Su): A righteous aura surrounds archons that fight or get angry. Any hostile creature within a 20-foot radius of an archon must succeed on a Will save to resist its effects. The save DC is 10+HD+Cha mod. Those who fail take a -2 penalty on attacks, AC, and saves for 24 hours or until they successfully hit the archon that generated the aura. A creature that has resisted or broken the effect cannot be affected again by the same archon’s aura for 24 hours.
Holy Warding (Su): At second level, the Lantern Archon gains DR/good and magic equal to half it's HD. It is also permanently affected by a Protection from Evil effect, which upgrades to a Magic Circle against Evil effect at 4HD. This effect is centered on the lantern archon.
Greater Guide: The lantern archon can use teleport as a SLA 1/day for each 4HD it has. At 13th level, this ability upgrades to greater teleport. It can also use tongues on itself as a SLA 1/day for each HD it has.
Comments
Spoiler
Well, I took cues from the hound archon for the archon abilities. I made the light rays progress slower than Eldritch Blast, and gave out extra rays as extra iterative attacks became available. I made the magic circle only become that strong at 4HD, as that's when the Hound Archon gains it.
Last edited by Volthawk; 2010-08-11 at 12:35 PM.
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2010-08-07, 01:15 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2008
Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!
- Need a better picture.
- "proficient with it's light rays." -> you probably mean its.
- I'm guessing that since they don't have hands or bodies, a Lantern Archon probably lacks fine manipulation and the ability to wear gear. I'd specify that.
- Fly speed of 5' per HD? Seriously? Like, they can only move 5' a round at 1st level?
- "they can try to hide it." -> How? How well? Using what skill or stat?
- Re: Lesser Lightbringer & Greater Lightbringer...
Fun fact! Did you know that the Latin word for Lightbringer is... Lucem Ferre, which has evolved to 'Lucifer'? I might suggest renaming the abilities. - Under Lesser Lightbringer, you call it a Hound Archon.
- I'd just get rid of the Ruby Dust material component entirely, and let it make permanent continual flame. Hardly game breaking and a little more thematic.
- Under Holy Warding, I'd specify that the magic circle against evil is centered on them.
- "It can also use tongues on herself" -> probably should be 'itself'.
- As tiny size is apparently a huge buff, I'd consider stating that their natural illumination prevents them from getting a bonus to hide, just to help keep the core creature concept together.
It seems to lack oomph. I mean, eldritch blasts are not fantastic firepower at any level, and while its nice that the Archon gets iterative attacks, it's not going to make up for what, presumably, the Lantern Archon loses by being a tiny ball of light without hands, feet or body parts to strap magic items to.
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2010-08-07, 02:44 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!
Well, Lucifer was called the "bringer of the light", so that makes sense.
Marceline Abadeer by Gnomish Wanderer
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2010-08-07, 04:42 PM (ISO 8601)
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2010-08-07, 04:55 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!
To get back on topic: No comments on Displacer Beast, barring the issue with Displacement math?
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2010-08-07, 04:59 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!
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2010-08-07, 05:07 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!
That's fair. I'll stick it at 10HD, so it comes around the same time that true sight does.
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2010-08-08, 03:52 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!
One of the options of the Wyvern class Legendary venom allows you to use your poison on things who are immune to it. It mentions undead and constructs as examples but they lack constitution scores, and the poison deals constitution damage. So it is a bit troublesom.
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2010-08-08, 04:17 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!
Man, that's true. I can't believe I overlooked that, and that nobody else pointed it out when reviewing the class.
Hrm. Should it be strength damage, then, when applied to Undead/Constructs?
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2010-08-08, 05:16 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!
I'm in vacation and net connectivity will be unreliable. This will make properly reviewing classes (including the last added) hard for me but at the end of August I should have full net again and properly add everything new added.
Oh, and yes if you want the Wyvern poison to affect constructs and undeads it would have to affect something other than con indeed.
Anyway, displacer beast and hellhound look good enough so I'll add them.
On the other hand, I must ask you again, Hyudra, why do you keep puting the clauses on growth when I have the table at the 1st post and have been using it for all my classes. You puting the clauses may lead to misunderstandings.
Altough he's a lantern archon, transforming whatever place goes to in a permanent christmas tree is something I'm not confortable with. The hound archon has that clause and the lantern archon sould too.
Yeah the lantern archon's is one of those more complicated monsters. Even the vasuhatin at least had hands.
Anyway it definetely needs some bigger "land" speed that doesn't force the party to carry him as a pet at low levels. The ray damage also should be bigger.
On the other hand it's just two levels long. Being a tiny flying ball that shoots lasers and some SLAs on top is more or less right.
If anything the light archon needs some sinergy with other classes. Right now the best choice it could take would be rogue for sneaking and shooting lasers with sneak attack on top but that goes against the whole "light" theme.
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2010-08-08, 05:33 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!
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2010-08-08, 07:19 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!
I'm gonna go with Strength. Probably the closest analogue to Con, as far as loss of physical capabilities.
On the other hand, I must ask you again, Hyudra, why do you keep puting the clauses on growth when I have the table at the 1st post and have been using it for all my classes. You puting the clauses may lead to misunderstandings.
What clauses are the issue? I'm pretty sure I just copy-pasted the text from someone else's entry and changed the monster name, so I'm pleading not guilty, here.
Altough he's a lantern archon, transforming whatever place goes to in a permanent christmas tree is something I'm not confortable with. The hound archon has that clause and the lantern archon sould too.
Anyway it definetely needs some bigger "land" speed that doesn't force the party to carry him as a pet at low levels. The ray damage also should be bigger.
On the other hand it's just two levels long. Being a tiny flying ball that shoots lasers and some SLAs on top is more or less right.
If anything the light archon needs some sinergy with other classes. Right now the best choice it could take would be rogue for sneaking and shooting lasers with sneak attack on top but that goes against the whole "light" theme.
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2010-08-08, 07:33 PM (ISO 8601)
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2010-08-08, 07:51 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!
I think that falls into the same general area, though.
Ideally, a monster shouldn't be restricted to "Once you've taken these monster levels, there's one class you can enter."
You want a monster to be able to go in any number of directions.
But yes, ball of lasers going pew pew would be fun.
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2010-08-08, 09:38 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!
I changed a few things around on the Styx dragon, although it's still pretty much the same. Is there anything I could do to make it a valid monster? I want to use it in a game.
As for the Gargoyle, I have no clue what to do on that. if somebody else wants to take over on that they're free to but I'm giving up on that one.
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2010-08-09, 07:41 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!
I'd like to suggest Gold Dragon. And don't tell me you're surprised.
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2010-08-09, 09:17 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!
Dragons are tough.
A suggestion, Kyuub - if you include a link to your dragon in your post, it's easier for people to click and glance over it to offer suggestions, when others are liable to just think "It's a pain to search back 3+ pages to find it".
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2010-08-09, 01:25 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!
I think a big part of designing the full assortment of tiny creatures is going to be making them worthwhile without having them all be rogue multiclassers. That +8 hide is apparently pretty tempting, so I suggested the anti-hide illumination. I agree wholeheartedly with Oslecamo that it needs synergy with other classes, though.
Unless the bonus only applies to creatures larger than itself.
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2010-08-09, 03:23 PM (ISO 8601)
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2010-08-10, 09:08 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!
The first-medium levels are perfectly valid in my opinion. But then things start to get kinda weaker at lv13, 15, 18 and 20. You either get a single +1 Cha or some way to bypass disease immunity. The last, while flavourfull, isn't that usefull as diseases need days to do damage.
Some sugestions to fill in those blank levels:
-It's the Styx dragon right? How about it can inflict amnesia with it's blows or breath? Fiendish codex or some other splatbook has rules for that if I'm not mistaken. Don't have them at hand right now.
-On the above vein ability to corrupt a body of water so it looks just normal but inflicts the Styx dragon diseases to anyone who drinks/swims on it.
-X/day make diseases work faster, like save every 5 round starting right away instead of every day.
-Out of my head some ability that gives it bonus to attack if you emerge out of water/land.
-If nothing else more stat bonus/SLA uses.Last edited by Oslecamo; 2010-08-10 at 09:08 AM.
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2010-08-10, 02:26 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!
The main issue is that while Disease is particularly troublesome to PCs, it's not that good against the PC's enemies, since (generally), said enemies are going to be defeated in the short term. That leaves disease to only work against enemies who get away, such as the story-relevant BBEG. If the DM wants the BBEG to survive to another day, even if the blaggard is diseased, it's going to happen anyways, reducing the validity of poison.
So, with that in mind, some suggestions as far as disease progression, as I did with poison, to make it more valid and tempting as a class feature, while keeping it distinct from poison:
- Pathogen: Each time the victim fails a save against the disease (including the initial save to find if the disease was contracted), the DC is increased by +2.
. - Rapid Onset: The Disease now has an incubation period of 1d3 rounds. This may be taken a second time, reducing the incubation period to 1d3-2 rounds.
. - Scourge: The victim must save against the disease twice as often (ie. from every 24 hours to every 12 hours). This option may be taken multiple times, halving the amount of time the victim must save each time it is taken. (from 24 to 12, 12 to 6, 6 to 3, and so on).
. - Fever: Once the poison enters the victim's system, the victim displays a rapidly progressing fever. From the point the victim fails the saving throw up until the time the disease is removed, the victim is Fatigued. Once the disease is incubated, the victim must make a fortitude save on any given hour or Exhausted, instead. (DC is 10 + ½ creature's HD + creature's Con)
. - Systemic Shock: When an opponent fails their save against disease, they are immediately sickened. Further, if the disease affects physical stats, the creature must make another fortitude save or be nauseated for 1d4 rounds, and if the disease affects mental stats, the creature must make a will save or be confused for 2d3 rounds. The DC for both saves isis 10 + ½ creature's HD + creature's Con.
Once the disease has incubated, the victim must save or be nauseated/confused (again, as appropriate to the disease) on any given hour.
. - Miasma: After a disease has finished incubating, a contagious vapor begins leaking out of their nose and mouth to taint the air around them. The disease effectively becomes inhalation and contact based, transmitted with the victim themselves as the origin point. Any infections transmitted in this way have the traits of the original disease, but with only a 50% chance the new victim will also show signs of the miasma.
1d3 rounds after a victim afflicted with Miasma dies, the miasma begins consuming their body, filling all adjacent squares with the inhaled version of the disease.
. - Blight: The disease becomes potent enough to affect targets that are normally immune, as the individual elements in the disease produce byproducts that consume, occlude or taint even inanimate matter or energies. The Disease can now affect any creature that cannot produce the disease itself, including those creatures that are typically immune or that lack constitution scores. The effects of the poison are halved when affecting such opponents, rounding down. Diseases that would deal Con damage to creatures with no Con score deal Cha damage instead.
And finally:
Extraordinary Poison [Monstrous]
Your poison works in a manner above and beyond that of other creatures of your type.
Prerequisite: A natural weapon that can transmit poison, 13 Con and 6HD, at least one of which must be a level in a monster class.
Benefit: Choose one of the following from the list to enhance your poison:
Spoiler- The save DC increases by +2
- The poison inflicts +2 ability damage as part of the initial and secondary effects. The enhanced ability is one of the types that the poison already damages.
- The poison is corrosive and reduces opponents' AC by 1d4 on a successful attack with your natural weapon. To undo the effect, the armor must be repaired (for removable armor) or healed like ability damage (for natural armor).
- The natural weapon damage is considered to be vile damage and 1/3rd of the ability damage is ability drain, instead (round up). Choosing this option multiple times adds +1d4 vile damage to the natural weapon and makes an added one third of the ability damage into ability drain.
- The poison inflicts a negative level as secondary damage.
- The poison is so potent it will even affect creatures that would normally be immune, sapping whatever kinds of energy sustain the creature, even negative or magical energies. Golems, undead and creatures that are normally immune to poison are affected. If your poison normally deals Con damage, and you would affect a creature without a Con score, the poison deals Str damage instead. Such creatures take half the ability damage they normally would.
- The poison persists in the victim's system for long durations, acting much like a disease. After the secondary damage, the victim must make another saving throw every minute. Failure means they take ability damage again. Two successful saves against the poison (including initial and secondary damage) means the victim has successfully shaken off the poison's effect.
Special: This feat may be taken multiple times, choosing a different option each time (or choosing options that specifically allow multiple instances).
Extraordinary Disease [Monstrous]
Your disease works in a manner above and beyond that of other creatures of your type.
Prerequisite: A natural weapon that can transmit disease, 13 Con and 6HD, at least one of which must be a level in a monster class.
Benefit: Choose one of the following from the list to enhance your poison:
Spoiler- Pathogen: Each time the victim fails a save against the disease (including the initial save to find if the disease was contracted), the DC is increased by +2.
- Rapid Onset: The Disease now has an incubation period of 1d3 rounds. This may be taken a second time, reducing the incubation period to 1d3-2 rounds.
- Scourge: The victim must save against the disease twice as often (ie. from every 24 hours to every 12 hours). This option may be taken multiple times, halving the amount of time the victim must save each time it is taken. (from 24 to 12, 12 to 6, 6 to 3, and so on).
- Fever: Once the poison enters the victim's system, the victim displays a rapidly progressing fever. From the point the victim fails the saving throw up until the time the disease is removed, the victim is Fatigued. Once the disease is incubated, the victim must make a fortitude save on any given hour or Exhausted, instead. (DC is 10 + ½ creature's HD + creature's Con)
- Systemic Shock: When an opponent fails their save against disease, they are immediately sickened. Further, if the disease affects physical stats, the creature must make another fortitude save or be nauseated for 1d4 rounds, and if the disease affects mental stats, the creature must make a will save or be confused for 2d3 rounds. The DC for both saves isis 10 + ½ creature's HD + creature's Con.
Once the disease has incubated, the victim must save or be nauseated/confused (again, as appropriate to the disease) on any given hour. - Miasma: After a disease has finished incubating, a contagious vapor begins leaking out of their nose and mouth to taint the air around them. The disease effectively becomes inhalation and contact based, transmitted with the victim themselves as the origin point. Any infections transmitted in this way have the traits of the original disease, but with only a 50% chance the new victim will also show signs of the miasma.
1d3 rounds after a victim afflicted with Miasma dies, the miasma begins consuming their body, filling all adjacent squares with the inhaled version of the disease. - Blight: The disease becomes potent enough to affect targets that are normally immune, as the individual elements in the disease produce byproducts that consume, occlude or taint even inanimate matter or energies. The Disease can now affect any creature that cannot produce the disease itself, including those creatures that are typically immune or that lack constitution scores. The effects of the poison are halved when affecting such opponents, rounding down. Diseases that would deal Con damage to creatures with no Con score deal Cha damage instead.
Special: This feat may be taken multiple times, choosing a different option each time (or choosing options that specifically allow multiple instances).Last edited by Hyudra; 2010-08-10 at 04:03 PM.
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2010-08-10, 09:33 PM (ISO 8601)
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2010-08-10, 09:53 PM (ISO 8601)
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2010-08-10, 10:44 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!
Hrmm. Tricky business, the Kython.
From broodling to adult stage, it seems fairly simple. The issue comes about when the class reaches the branching out part.
I'm thinking the first three life stages of the Kython as a 5 level class, then the three specialized forms as prestige classes, only enterable from the Kython monster class?
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2010-08-11, 08:20 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!
Lantern Archon ftw. I want to play one with high spot, listen, and knowlege modifiers just so I can fly around the fighter's head shouting "Hey! Listen! Watch Out!" and then give out random monster information.
On a (slightly) more serious note, I'd like to see Rokuro-Kubi and Hebi-no-Onna from oriental adventures as monster classes for my japan-based setting, if it isnt too much trouble. Even if you dont though, thanks for what you've already done."To play a fighter is to play the game.
To play a wizard is to understand the rules.
To understand the rules, and play a fighter, is to understand the game."
-Lycar
SpoilerClasses
The Summoner
The Witch
The Yojimbo
Races
Deadborn
Kilzecru
Night-Touched
Virtues
Paleborn
Full List
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2010-08-11, 09:05 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!
Hmm, Oriental adventures monsters, one of my favorite books. I may take those myself.
Several monsters that had been forgoten on the last pages despite being finished added to the list. Earth elemental, Sahuagin, Monster of Legend, Griffin, kudos for the authors.
Arcanoloth still needs something for that dead level, even if it's just extra stat bonus.
Legendary wolf just doesn't feel right. It has almost only passive abilities wich is bad for something 6 levels long and I still think wolf/dire wolf/legendary wolf should be combined in the same class.
Also shameless promotion to my recruitment thread seeking a couple replacements for my 2-year campaign, Volthawk already expressed interest.
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=163805
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2010-08-11, 10:03 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!
How have I never seen these before. Congrats on consuming my entire weekend Oslecamo.Piratebold-Bard by Elder Tsofu | Backer #121 of the Giantitp Kickstarter | My homebrew
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2010-08-11, 11:05 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!
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2010-08-11, 11:13 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!
I know it's not part of the class, but would giving the Lantern Archon Mage Hand At-Will be too much? It still cant use equipment, but it can shove a potion down someone's throat if they need it etc.
Last edited by Kobold-Bard; 2010-08-11 at 11:14 AM.
Piratebold-Bard by Elder Tsofu | Backer #121 of the Giantitp Kickstarter | My homebrew
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2010-08-11, 11:19 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5]Improved monster classes: adapting creatures for player use-taking requests!
While that would be easiest for the Kython as far as being a monster class, the description of the Adult suggests that entering one post-Adult form precludes the others.
This is supported by the fact that each post-adult form is very specialized and takes on traits or abilities that it would lose by moving into the next phase; if it worked as you suggested, you'd have a class that got Charge and 50' move speed between levels 6 and 8, then lost charge, 20' of move & two of its limbs to become a snake-like thing with Constrict, and ultimately regained its legs (but not charge or move speed), lost Constrict and got poison spray in the final levels.