Results 1 to 19 of 19
  1. - Top - End - #1
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Fortuna's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Long Shiny Cloud-land
    Gender
    Female

    Default Eldritch Chord [3.5 PrC, PEACH]

    Eldritch Chord

    It is well known that bards draw much of their power from forces which are not immediately apparent to mortal eyes. Arcane spells flow from their fingertips like glib words flow from their tongues, and their music is imbued with magical energy. Warlocks, as well, are fueled by mysterious energies, although they make conscious pacts with them and are more inherently destructive. The question remains, though, as to what fuels bardic power? Deities? Skill? Art? Or something more sinister...

    Prerequisites: To become an eldritch chord a character must meet the following criteria.
    Skills: Perform 8 ranks, Spellcraft 8 ranks
    Spellcasting: Must be able to spontaneously cast first level spells from the bard spell list.
    Invoking: Must know at least 4 invocations.

    Hit Die: d6

    Class Skills: The eldritch chord's class skills (and their key ability scores) are Bluff (Cha), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Dsguise (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge (arcana) (Int), Knowledge (religion) (Int), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Spellcraft (Int), and Use Magic Device (Cha).

    Skill Points per Level: 6+Int modifier

    {table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fortitude|Reflex|Will|Class Features|Invocations|Spells

    1|+0|+0|+2|+2|Bardic Music|+1 level of existing invoking class|+1 level of existing spellcasting class

    2|+1|+0|+3|+3|Pactbound Song|+1 level of existing invoking class|+1 level of existing spellcasting class

    3|+2|+1|+3|+3|Eldritch Finale|+1 level of existing invoking class|+1 level of existing spellcasting class

    4|+3|+1|+4|+4|-|+1 level of existing invoking class|+1 level of existing spellcasting class

    5|+3|+1|+4|+4|Pactbound Chord|+1 level of existing invoking class|+1 level of existing spellcasting class

    6|+4|+2|+5|+5|Musical Invocation|+1 level of existing invoking class|+1 level of existing spellcasting class

    7|+5|+2|+5|+5|-|+1 level of existing invoking class|+1 level of existing spellcasting class

    8|+6|+2|+6|+6|Song-filled Blast|+1 level of existing invoking class|+1 level of existing spellcasting class

    9|+6|+3|+6|+6|Pactbound Music|+1 level of existing invoking class|+1 level of existing spellcasting class

    10|+7|+3|+7|+7|Eldritch Blast +5d6|+1 level of existing invoking class|+1 level of existing spellcasting class[/table]

    Class Features: The following are class features of the Eldritch Chord.

    Invocations: At the levels noted on the table an eldritch chord gains new invocations known as if they had advanced a level in an invocation-using class with which they could have qualified for the Invocations section of the prerequisites when they first entered this class. They gain no other benefits from that class.

    Spellcasting: At the levels noted on the table an eldritch chord gains more spells known and spells per day as if they had advanced a level in a spellcasting class with which they could have qualified for the Spellcasting section of the prerequisites when they first entered this class. They gain no other benefits from that class.

    Bardic Music (Su): An eldritch chord's class level stacks with their levels in bard for determining their number of uses of bardic music per day.

    Eldritch Blast (Sp): An eldritch chord gains the bonus noted on the table to their eldritch blast damage.

    Pactbound Song (Su): At level two, the eldritch chord may grant the effects of a personal invocation with a duration longer than one minute to up to 5 allies within 30 feet for one round. This requires the same action as the invocation.

    Eldritch Finale (Sp): From level three onwards eldritch blast may be used as a finale to a piece of bardic music. When one of their bardic music effects ends the eldritch chord may choose to use an eldritch blast as a move action, although it will deal at most a number of dice equal to the number of rounds that the effect has been active or the character's normal eldritch blast damage, whichever is less.

    Pactbound Chord (Su): At level five, the eldritch chord may to perform a pactbound chord, targetting one enemy within normal eldritch blast range with an eldritch blast dealing sonic damage and forcing them to make a Fortitude save (DC 15+Cha modifier) or be deafened, and all allies within 30' deal an extra 2d6 sonic damage every time they hit with a weapon that round. This is a standard action, but may be used as a free action while performing bardic music.

    Musical Invocation (Sp): At level six, the eldritch chord may use an invocation secretly during a perform check, requiring a DC 30 Spellcraft check to recognize the fact that an invocation is being used.

    Song-filled Blast (Sp): At level eight, the eldritch chord's bard levels stack with their warlock levels for the purpose of determining eldritch blast damage.

    Pactbound Music (Su): At level nine, the eldritch chord's warlock levels stack with their bard levels for determining bardic music uses per day and inspire courage/competence bonus.



    So I'm using mhvaughan's Warlock rewrite, if it matters. I thought this would be an interesting idea, so I wrote it up. Thoughts?
    Last edited by Fortuna; 2010-02-24 at 12:23 AM.
    If I creep into your house in the dead of night and strangle you while you sleep, you probably messed up your grammar.

    I'm always extremely careful to hedge myself against absolute statements.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Latronis's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Eldritch Chord [3.5 PrC, PEACH]

    Why a theurge type prc and not a warlock based(invoking) bard base class?

    I think that would be kinda cool to see.

    I'll have a better look at it later, but that was my first thoughts

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Mongoose87's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Eldritch Chord [3.5 PrC, PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Latronis View Post
    Why a theurge type prc and not a warlock based(invoking) bard base class?

    I think that would be kinda cool to see.

    I'll have a better look at it later, but that was my first thoughts
    It bugs me that people make a base class for every niche out there. Base classes are meant to be broad, PrCs are where you specialize.



    As for the class, I like it, though, you forgot to put the skill points per level.
    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Roc View Post
    Ring of Evasion means never playing a monk with monk levels again. There is just no reason to dip that stuff. I know we're all about using every part of the buffalo here, but can we just admit that it's inedible?

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Midwest, not Middle East
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Eldritch Chord [3.5 PrC, PEACH]

    Looks pretty weak. For example,
    Pactbound Song (Su): At level two, the eldritch chord may expend a daily use of bardic music in order to grant the effects of a personal invocation with a duration longer than one minute to up to 5 allies within 30 feet for one round. This requires the same action as the invocation.
    makes more sense to me if it lasts longer than one round. Maybe a minute, or a minute per effective bard level.

    It would be nice to have a capstone, but I'm not sure what it should be mechanically. Maybe use a music use and make all your enemies within 90' make a Fort save or take eldritch blast damage? Steal Song of Cosmic Fire from the Sublime Chord? A calling effect that brings a servant of the power you made a pact with? A song of dominate person that is targeted, like Fascinate is?

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Fortuna's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Long Shiny Cloud-land
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: Eldritch Chord [3.5 PrC, PEACH]

    Added in skill points per level, and made all of the abilities at-will (no bardic music expenditure involved).
    If I creep into your house in the dead of night and strangle you while you sleep, you probably messed up your grammar.

    I'm always extremely careful to hedge myself against absolute statements.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Banned
     
    DragoonWraith's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Eldritch Chord [3.5 PrC, PEACH]

    The prerequisites are bizarre. You require 2 Invocations, which happens at Warlock 2, but you also require a +2d6 Eldritch Blast and a 2d6 Eldritch Blast already requires Warlock 3, so no one can meet the Eldritch Blast requirement without having automatically reched the Invocation requirement.

    The Bard side is the same: Inspire Competence and 1st level Bard spells happen on the same level (3rd). You can't have one without the other, well, barring an ACF, anyway. And do you really want to bar an ACF?

    Finally, oh dear god. At best, you're a Bard 3/Warlock 3/Eldritch Chord 10, and have the spells of a 6th level Bard and the Invocations of a 6th level Warlock? What good is that? Yeah, there are class features, but you have terrible entry, and you continue to lose ground. Losing 6 progression levels on each side basically makes both the spells and the invocations pretty close to useless. Why the dead levels?

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Kobold-Bard's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    England
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Eldritch Chord [3.5 PrC, PEACH]

    I think the "+1 Invoking Class" thing also includes Eldritch Blast damage. Unless your intention was to give this class an extra 5d6 EB damage on top of normal.
    Zenithbold-Bard by Lord Raziere | Backer #121 of the Giantitp Kickstarter | My homebrew
    Quote Originally Posted by OverlordJ View Post
    New law: Obey me or you'll be crushed by a MOUNTAIN.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Banned
     
    DragoonWraith's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Eldritch Chord [3.5 PrC, PEACH]

    That's also correct.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Titan in the Playground
     
    ShneekeyTheLost's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    I wish I knew...
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Eldritch Chord [3.5 PrC, PEACH]

    So you are giving up 3 levels of casting on both sides throughout this PrC, in addition to being already behind from having to take two different base classes to qualify? Umm... no. There is weaksauce, then there is Fighter, then there is Mystic Theurge, then there's this.

    You don't even get to stack for advancement until level 8 or 9 of this class? That's pretty harsh.

    Check my Fell Lyricist for an actually useful, though not overpowering, way to do things.
    Last edited by ShneekeyTheLost; 2010-02-22 at 05:13 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Underlord View Post
    All hail great Shneekeythulhu! Ia Ia Shneeky fthagn
    Spoiler
    Show
    Quite possibly, the best rebuttal I have ever witnessed.
    Joker Bard - the DM's solution to the Batman Wizard.
    Takahashi no Onisan - The scariest Samurai alive
    Incarnum and YOU: a reference guide
    Soulmelds, by class and slot: Another Incarnum reference
    Multiclassing for Newbies: A reference guide for the rest of us

    My homebrew world in progress: Falcora

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    DaTedinator's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Eldritch Chord [3.5 PrC, PEACH]

    Tone aside, Shneekey makes a good point about the spellcasting. Bards and Warlocks are both already (basically) half casters, you don't need to worry about stifling their progression. And notes of others are correct in that progressing invoking progresses Eldritch Blast, though giving an extra die or two isn't a bad idea, given the bard levels.

    All in all, I definitely like it, but it could use a capstone, and the 9th level ability is a bit strange, especially for an ability gained that late. Eldritch Chord levels already give Bardic Music uses, just let them add to Inspire Courage too, no need to make Warlock add to it.

    In fact, if you wanted to do that, that could make a good multiclass feat, along the lines of Swift Hunter and Ascetic Mage and all those? Making Bard and Warlock stack for Bardic Music and Eldritch Blast or something.
    Thanks to Dashwood for the avatar!

    Check out my Homebrew.

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Fortuna's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Long Shiny Cloud-land
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: Eldritch Chord [3.5 PrC, PEACH]

    I didn't realize about the EB, I'll fix that.

    And Tedinator: you probably have a point about the invocation and spellcasting losing progression, so I'll fiddle with that as well.

    As to the level eight and nine abilities: the purpose is to make it so that you keep something from your other class even when you go into one of these classes after finishing this class. I might see what else I can think up along those lines, but that's the idea.

    Dragoonwraith: your point about the prereqs is a good one, and I'll fiddle with those too.

    Also, how do you figure Bard 3/Warlock 3/Eldritch Chord 10 gives 6 and 6 invocation and casting? I make it 10 and 10.
    If I creep into your house in the dead of night and strangle you while you sleep, you probably messed up your grammar.

    I'm always extremely careful to hedge myself against absolute statements.

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Banned
     
    DragoonWraith's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Eldritch Chord [3.5 PrC, PEACH]

    You're right; for some reason I only counted one of the 3's. Don't know why I did that. Anyway, the point is, you've lost far too many spell levels. The Mystic Theurge loses 3 levels from each side and is horribly weak. This loses 6.

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Fortuna's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Long Shiny Cloud-land
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: Eldritch Chord [3.5 PrC, PEACH]

    3 now
    If I creep into your house in the dead of night and strangle you while you sleep, you probably messed up your grammar.

    I'm always extremely careful to hedge myself against absolute statements.

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Titan in the Playground
     
    ShneekeyTheLost's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    I wish I knew...
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Eldritch Chord [3.5 PrC, PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Random_person View Post
    3 now
    Much better.

    Now he'll be fairly effective, although still behind most people unless you use early entry tactics with Bard (precocious apprentice). He's got some nifty class abilities, though. Better than the one in Complete Mage by a long shot.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Underlord View Post
    All hail great Shneekeythulhu! Ia Ia Shneeky fthagn
    Spoiler
    Show
    Quite possibly, the best rebuttal I have ever witnessed.
    Joker Bard - the DM's solution to the Batman Wizard.
    Takahashi no Onisan - The scariest Samurai alive
    Incarnum and YOU: a reference guide
    Soulmelds, by class and slot: Another Incarnum reference
    Multiclassing for Newbies: A reference guide for the rest of us

    My homebrew world in progress: Falcora

  15. - Top - End - #15
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Latronis's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Eldritch Chord [3.5 PrC, PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Mongoose87 View Post
    It bugs me that people make a base class for every niche out there. Base classes are meant to be broad, PrCs are where you specialize.



    As for the class, I like it, though, you forgot to put the skill points per level.
    That's a silly argument to make, even just in core there is already a degree of specialization in base classes, more so once you include more splat books.

    What i wanted to know is if there was any specific reason why it was trying to theurge two partial casters when making a variant (invoking instead of arcane spellcasting) bard fits well with the opening statement..

    The question remains, though, as to what fuels bardic power? Deities? Skill? Art? Or something more sinister...

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Fortuna's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Long Shiny Cloud-land
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: Eldritch Chord [3.5 PrC, PEACH]

    Because I like PrCs way more than base classes or variants, and I like theurge classes more than any other prestige class?
    If I creep into your house in the dead of night and strangle you while you sleep, you probably messed up your grammar.

    I'm always extremely careful to hedge myself against absolute statements.

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Boston, MA

    Default Re: Eldritch Chord [3.5 PrC, PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Latronis View Post
    That's a silly argument to make, even just in core there is already a degree of specialization in base classes, more so once you include more splat books.
    Yes, and there's a general pattern: Bases classes which aren't generalists are often broken. They are frequently either way too powerful or underpowered or like the CW Samurai are generally too weak but can become ridiculously broken with a little tweaking. Specific base classes are generally not a great idea.

    Base classes are in general much harder to design than PrCs. Between that and the general problem that narrow base classes have, making a PrC for this seems the right way to go.
    My homebrew:

    Spoiler
    Show


    Completed:
    ToB disciplines:

    The Narrow Bridge
    The Broken Blade

    Prestige classess:
    Disciple of Karsus -PrC for Karsites.
    The Seekers of Lost Swords and the Preserver of Future Blades Two interelated Tome of Battle Prcs,
    Master of the Hidden Seal - Binder/Divine hybrid
    Knight of the Grave- Necromancy using Gish



    Worthwhile links:

    Age of Warriors

  18. - Top - End - #18
    Orc in the Playground
    Join Date
    Feb 2010

    Default Re: Eldritch Chord [3.5 PrC, PEACH]

    I love this class. I was so disappointed when I couldn't find a bard/warlock theurge class. My favorite part is the Pactbound Chord ability, improving bardic music in general was a very good idea.

  19. - Top - End - #19
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Fortuna's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Long Shiny Cloud-land
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: Eldritch Chord [3.5 PrC, PEACH]

    I'm glad you like it
    If I creep into your house in the dead of night and strangle you while you sleep, you probably messed up your grammar.

    I'm always extremely careful to hedge myself against absolute statements.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •