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    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Sir_Chivalry's Avatar

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    Default Disciple of Bel (DnD 3.5, PEACH)

    Hello all. Now, I'm a great fan of the Disciple of ___ classes, but I noticed that there wasn't one for Bel, Belial/Fierna, Levistus, or the Hag Countess/Glasya. So I decided to either modify other PrCs and rebuild, or to create from whole cloth. This is one of the latter. I had a hard time designing this, so be extra rippy and shreddy. In the Fiendish Codex II, it says that each of the first eight layers of hell have a special division in Bel's armies on Avernus to fight the Blood War. So I figured the disciple of Bel, learning from each of the styles of fighting, would pass these lessons on to his allies. I also figured I'd make it a class you accessed through blackguard, becuase that struck my fancy as interesting.

    Disciple of Bel

    Requirements
    To qualify to become a disciple of Bel, a character must fulfill all the following criteria.
    Alignment: Lawful evil.
    Base Attack Bonus: +8
    Skills: Intimidate 6 ranks, Knowledge (religion) 4 ranks
    Feats: Brand of the Nine Hells (Bel), Cleave, Improved Sunder, Leadership, Power Attack
    Class Features: Dark Blessing
    Special: Must kill a demon of CR 8 or higher, and engage in the evisceration of a captured foe

    Disciple of Bel
    hit dice: d10
    {table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

    1st|
    +1
    |
    +2
    |
    +0
    |
    +2
    |Second lieutenant, smite chaos 1/day

    2nd|
    +2
    |
    +3
    |
    +0
    |
    +3
    |Baatorian Aura: passage of the Few, bonus feat, Mark of Avernus

    3rd|
    +3
    |
    +3
    |
    +1
    |
    +3
    | Baatorian Aura: Iron Defendersí reinforcement, sneak attack +1d6

    4th|
    +4
    |
    +4
    |
    +1
    |
    +4
    | Baatorian Aura: Gleaming Guardís armoury

    5th|
    +5
    |
    +4
    |
    +1
    |
    +4
    | Baatorian Aura: skin of the Walkers in Fire, smite chaos 2/day, bonus feat

    6th|
    +6
    |
    +5
    |
    +2
    |
    +5
    | Baatorian Aura: caution of the Stygian Champions, sneak attack +2d6

    7th|
    +7
    |
    +5
    |
    +2
    |
    +5
    | Baatorian Aura: terrain of the Creeping Cadre

    8th|
    +8
    |
    +6
    |
    +2
    |
    +6
    | Baatorian Aura: charge of the Maldominaar, bonus feat

    9th|
    +9
    |
    +6
    |
    +3
    |
    +6
    | Baatorian Aura: eyes of the Serpentine Order, sneak attack +3d6

    10th|
    +10
    |
    +7
    |
    +3
    |
    +7
    |Smite chaos 3/day, Standard of Bel[/table]

    Class Skills
    The disciple of Belís class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Handle Animal (Cha), Heal (Wis), Hide (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (history) (Cha), Knowledge (religion) (Cha), Profession (Wis) and Ride (Dex).

    Skill Points
    2 + Int modifier

    Weapon and Armour Proficiency: Disciples of Bel gain proficiency with tower shields.

    Second lieutenant: A disciple of Bel has such personal magnetism that another being approaches him to offer its services as a second cohort. This cohort follows the same rules as normal cohorts, but is four levels below the disciple of Bel instead of two.

    Smite Chaos (Su): Once per day, a disciple of Bel may attempt to smite chaos with one normal melee attack. She adds her Charisma bonus (if any) to her attack roll and deals 1 extra point of damage per disciple of Bel level. If the disciple of Bel accidentally smites a creature that is not chaos, the smite has no effect, but the ability is still used up for that day.

    At 5th level, and again at 10th level, the disciple of Bel may smite evil one additional time per day.


    Baatorian Aura: As a standard action, the disciple of Bel can activate an aura that give bonuses to his allies if they are within 60ft. An aura remains active until the disciple falls unconscious, selects a new aura as a standard action or dismisses the aura as a free action. Each aura also has sensory effects on those within the aura. The sensory effects of the auras have not mechanical effect, and are only apparent to those within the aura. The disciple of Bel gains different auras as he gains levels:

    Spoiler
    Show
    2nd-Passage of the Few: At the beginning of his turn, if a disciple of Bel has this aura active, he can select two allies (excluding himself) within 30ft of each other who have line of sight to each other and the disciple of Bel, and cause them to switch places. This acts as a greater teleport, but only works under these conditions. While this aura is active, the air smells faintly of sulfur and a faint screaming can be heard off in the distance.

    3rd-Iron Defendersí reinforcement: Allies in the area of this aura gain a bonus equal to the disciple of Belís class level on rolls to resist being bull-rushed, disarmed, overrun, tripped or to escape a grapple. While this aura is active, the air seems unnaturally still (or if it is windy, the wind seems calm and orderly), and a heartbeat breaks the silence rhythmically.

    4th-Gleaming Guardís armoury: Allies in the area of this aura can ignore a number of points of damage reduction equal to half the disciple of Belís class level. While this aura is active, the weapons of the disciple of Belís allies all appear to be made from gold and encrusted with jewels.

    5th-Skin of the Walkers in Fire: Allies within the area of this aura are immune to the negative effects of any spells cast by their allies. A wizard ally could freely cast fireball in the middle of the group and it would only affect any enemies caught in its area. This protection only extends to damage, negative status effects, and ability point damage and drain. Damage from other sources, such as casting corrupt spells or using a warlock's hellfire blast, still do damage. While this aura is active, allies feel a rush of adrenaline and euphoria, and the air seems to crackle with the sounds of an unseen inferno.

    6th-Caution of the Stygian Champions: Allies with the area of this aura can negate one attack of opportunity they provoke each round. Each ally can only negate an attack of opportunity they provoke (if Rex the barbarian provoked an attack of opportunity while under the effects of this aura, he could negate it. If later that round he provoked another attack of opportunity, his allies could not sacrifice their negation to negate that attack). While this aura is active, all the senses feel numb and cold, and a icy rime settles on the area of the aura.

    7th-Terrain of the Creeping Cadre: The entire area of this aura becomes extremely unsanitary. All enemies who enter the aura (but not those already within when it is activated) must succeed on a Fortitude save (DC 12+half the disciple of Belís level+Cha modifier). Failure causes the opponent to become nauseated for 2d4 rounds or until they leave the aura, which ever comes first. Success means they become sickened for 2d4 rounds or until they leave the aura, whichever comes first. While this aura is active, the ground seems to pulse and squirm like a living things, and becomes slick and sticky.

    8th-Charge of the Maldominaar: Allies within the area of this aura can ignore areas that slow movement or contain creatures when making charge attacks. A charging ally can ignore a number of squares containing difficult or hindering terrain equal to the disciple of Belís charisma modifier, and any creature in the path of a charge provokes an overrun attempt that does not provoke an attack of opportunity. Resolve the overrun attempt normally. While this aura is active, the air buzzes with the sound of countless flies and gnats, and slugs and snails seem to crawl along the ground.

    9th-Eyes of the Serpentine Order: Allies within the area of this aura are immune to surprise, thought they are still flat-footed in the first round of combat until they take their actions (if, for instance, the disciple of Bel and his allies are ambushed by a group of assassins, the assassins donít get a surprise round). While this aura is active, the temperature widely fluctuates between extremely warm and extremely cool (neither enough to cause damage), and becomes saturated with humidity.


    Bonus Feat: At 2nd, 5th and 8th level, a disciple of Bel may select a bonus feat from the list of fighter bonus feats

    Mark of Avernus: Once per encounter, a 2nd level disciple of Bel can make a single ranged or melee attack, or use a spell-like ability, as an immediate action. In addition, when a disciple of Bel attacks as part of a readied action, he gains a +4 to his attack and damage, and automatically confirms a critical if it is threatened.

    Sneak Attack: If a 3rd level disciple of Bel can catch an opponent when he is unable to defend himself effectively from her attack, she can strike a vital spot for extra damage.

    The disciple of Belís attack deals extra damage any time her target would be denied a Dexterity bonus to AC (whether the target actually has a Dexterity bonus or not), or when the disciple of Bel flanks her target. This extra damage is 1d6 at 3rd level, and it increases by 1d6 every three levels. Should the disciple of Bel score a critical hit with a sneak attack, this extra damage is not multiplied.

    Ranged attacks can count as sneak attacks only if the target is within 30 feet.

    With a sap (blackjack) or an unarmed strike, a disciple of Bel can make a sneak attack that deals nonlethal damage instead of lethal damage. She cannot use a weapon that deals lethal damage to deal nonlethal damage in a sneak attack, not even with the usual -4 penalty.

    A disciple of Bel can sneak attack only living creatures with discernible anatomiesóundead, constructs, oozes, plants, and incorporeal creatures lack vital areas to attack. Any creature that is immune to critical hits is not vulnerable to sneak attacks. The disciple of Bel must be able to see the target well enough to pick out a vital spot and must be able to reach such a spot. A disciple of Bel cannot sneak attack while striking a creature with concealment or striking the limbs of a creature whose vitals are beyond reach.

    If a disciple of Bel gets a sneak attack bonus from another source the bonuses on damage stack.

    Standard of Bel: A 10th level disciple of Bel can have two Baatorian Auras active at once. He also gains the Standard of Bel a slotless magic emblem (a miniature flaming greatsword made from Baatorian green steel) that makes him immune to compulsions, poisons and diseases. It is a Diminutive object with 20 hardness and 40 hit points. If ever removed from the disciple of Bel's possession, the Standard of Bel melts into a horrid sludge and deals 1d4 points of vile damage to whoever is holding it. The disciple loses his ability to have two auras active at once and his immunity to compulsions, poisons and diseases until the next midnight, when a new standard appears in his hand, smoking and smelling of brimstone.

    This has been part three of four. Thank you for taking the time to read it.
    Last edited by Sir_Chivalry; 2010-09-25 at 12:07 AM.
    Feel free to PM me if you want something PEACHed. I may not be one of the greats, but I'll do it if you ask.

    "One of us is tender,
    One of us is not,
    One of us takes vengeance,
    All four tied in a knot
    "

    My homebrew

    (U)sually in any game situation the biggest control freak will gravitate towards the job of being the GM anyway.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    DracoDei's Avatar

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    Default Re: Disciple of Bel (DnD 3.5, PEACH)

    You give a lot of fluff effects to the auras that are secondary, and I suggest a lot of ways of adding crunch to them. If you want to avoid all that, just say "It is just a DC -10 illusion in the minds of those in the area, and nobody outside the area can detect it at all...

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir_Chivalry View Post
    Special: Must kill a fiend who you have made friendly contact with
    Does this really fit a LE character and Bel? I don't know anything about Bel, but this doesn't seem to fit the rest of the class, except if Bel is big into commissars and such like.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sir_Chivalry View Post
    Weapon and Armour Proficiency: Disciples of Bel gain proficiency with tower shields.
    Good touch... but make it ALL shields in case someone sneaks into this class without shield proficiency somehow.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sir_Chivalry View Post
    Second lieutenant: A disciple of Bel has such personal magnetism that another being approaches him to offer its services as a second cohort. This cohort follows the same rules as normal cohorts, but is four levels below the disciple of Bel instead of two.
    A bit more work for everyone, but it is flavorful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sir_Chivalry View Post
    2nd-Passage of the Few: At the beginning of his turn, if a disciple of Bel has this aura active, he can select two allies within 30ft of each other who have line of sight to each other and the disciple of Bel, and cause them to switch places. This acts as a greater teleport, but only works under these conditions. While this aura is active, the air smells faintly of sulfur and a faint screaming can be heard off in the distance.
    Give a base Listen DC (to be modified as normal for distance) for the screaming, and specify if it comes from the character, or every point of the aura (so that the distance can be figured out). If you are feeling ambitious, do similar things for the sulfur smell and scent, including tracking by scent if it doesn't completely vanish outside the range of the aura (for instance as the character is moving along, or when their is a wind).

    Actually if the efffect is purely mental in nature, it could be impossible to hear outside that radius.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sir_Chivalry View Post
    3rd-Iron Defendersí reinforcement: Allies in the area of this aura gain a bonus equal to the disciple of Belís class level on rolls to resist being bull-rushed, disarmed, overrun, tripped or to escape a grapple. While this aura is active, the air seems unnaturally still (or if it is windy, the wind seems calm and orderly), and a heartbeat breaks the silence rhythmically.
    See above about listen stuff.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sir_Chivalry View Post
    4th-Gleaming Guardís armoury: Allies in the area of this aura can ignore a number of points of damage reduction equal to half the disciple of Belís class level. While this aura is active, the weapons of the disciple of Belís allies all appear to be made from gold and encrusted with jewels.
    I would recommend Hide check penalties, but most GMs are anywhere NEAR that nit-picky realistic.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sir_Chivalry View Post
    5th-Skin of the Walkers in Fire: Allies within the area of this aura are immune to the negative effects of any spells cast by their allies. A wizard ally could freely cast fireball in the middle of the group and it would only affect any enemies caught in its area. While this aura is active, allies feel a rush of adrenaline and euphoria, and the air seems to crackle with the sounds of an unseen inferno.
    Change this to unbeatable SR unless you want people walking through their allies Wall of Force (which I don't recommend).
    Quote Originally Posted by Sir_Chivalry View Post
    6th-Caution of the Stygian Champions: Allies with the area of this aura can negate one attack of opportunity they provoke each round. Each ally can only negate an attack of opportunity they provoke (if Rex the barbarian provoked an attack of opportunity while under the effects of this aura, he could negate it. If later that round he provoked another attack of opportunity, his allies could not sacrifice their negation to negate that attack). While this aura is active, all the senses feel numb and cold, and a icy rime settles on the area of the aura.
    Penalty to Spot, Listen, and Search? Is the ice slippery?
    Quote Originally Posted by Sir_Chivalry View Post
    7th-Terrain of the Creeping Cadre: The entire area of this aura becomes extremely unsanitary. All enemies who enter the aura (but not those already within when it is activated) must succeed on a Fortitude save (DC 12+half the disciple of Belís level+Cha modifier). Failure causes the opponent to become nauseated for 2d4 rounds or until they leave the aura, which ever comes first. Success means they become sickened for 2d4 rounds or until they leave the aura, whichever comes first. While this aura is active, the ground seems to pulse and squirm like a living things, and becomes slick and sticky.
    Penalties to Tumble and Balance for slick/sticky ground? Or do they cancel eachother out somehow? Or is it all in your head? Penalties to resist trip and/or bull-rush attempts, especially by flying creatures which need not worry about their own footing?
    Quote Originally Posted by Sir_Chivalry View Post
    8th-Charge of the Maldominaar: Allies within the area of this aura can ignore areas that slow movement or contain creatures when making charge attacks. A charging ally can ignore a number of squares containing difficult or hindering terrain equal to the disciple of Belís charisma modifier, and any creature in the path of a charge provokes an overrun attempt that does not provoke an attack of opportunity. Resolve the overrun attempt normally. While this aura is active, the air buzzes with the sound of countless flies and gnats, and slugs and snails seem to crawl along the ground.
    Listen DCs?
    Quote Originally Posted by Sir_Chivalry View Post
    Standard of Bel: A 10th level disciple of Bel can have two Baatorian Auras active at once. He also gains the Standard of Bel a slotless magic emblem that makes him immune to compulsions, poisons and diseases.
    What does this look like, can it be destroyed, and if so, how hard/easy is it to replace?


    Note that I haven't said anything about balance one way or another.
    Best homebrew:
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    Power Rangers:"BIG TWIST!!" (working title) IC OOC Active Map:None.
    For everything else (including my homebrew) see: Full list of Homebrew.
    My Homebrew is meant to be used, but, if you do, PLEASE tell me how it goes.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Drolyt's Avatar

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    Default Re: Disciple of Bel (DnD 3.5, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir_Chivalry View Post
    Hello all. Now, I'm a great fan of the Disciple of ___ classes, but I noticed that there wasn't one for Bel, Belial/Fierna, Levistus, or the Hag Countess/Glasya. So I decided to either modify other PrCs and rebuild, or to create from whole cloth. This is one of the latter. I had a hard time designing this, so be extra rippy and shreddy. In the Fiendish Codex II, it says that each of the first eight layers of hell have a special division in Bel's armies on Avernus to fight the Blood War. So I figured the disciple of Bel, learning from each of the styles of fighting, would pass these lessons on to his allies. I also figured I'd make it a class you accessed through blackguard, becuase that struck my fancy as interesting.

    Disciple of Bel

    Requirements
    To qualify to become a disciple of Bel, a character must fulfill all the following criteria.
    Alignment: Any evil.
    Base Attack Bonus: +8
    Skills: Intimidate 6 ranks, Knowledge (religion) 4 ranks
    Feats: Cleave, Disciple of Darkness, Leadership, Power Attack
    Class Features: Dark Blessing
    Special: Must kill a fiend who you have made friendly contact with, and engage in the evisceration of a captured foe

    Disciple of Bel
    hit dice: d10
    {table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

    1st|
    +1
    |
    +2
    |
    +0
    |
    +2
    |Second lieutenant

    2nd|
    +2
    |
    +3
    |
    +0
    |
    +3
    |Baatorian Aura: passage of the Few

    3rd|
    +3
    |
    +3
    |
    +1
    |
    +3
    | Baatorian Aura: Iron Defendersí reinforcement

    4th|
    +4
    |
    +4
    |
    +1
    |
    +4
    | Baatorian Aura: Gleaming Guardís armoury

    5th|
    +5
    |
    +4
    |
    +1
    |
    +4
    | Baatorian Aura: skin of the Walkers in Fire

    6th|
    +6
    |
    +5
    |
    +2
    |
    +5
    | Baatorian Aura: caution of the Stygian Champions

    7th|
    +7
    |
    +5
    |
    +2
    |
    +5
    | Baatorian Aura: terrain of the Creeping Cadre

    8th|
    +8
    |
    +6
    |
    +2
    |
    +6
    | Baatorian Aura: charge of the Maldominaar

    9th|
    +9
    |
    +6
    |
    +3
    |
    +6
    | Baatorian Aura: eyes of the Serpentine Order

    10th|
    +10
    |
    +7
    |
    +3
    |
    +7
    |Standard of Bel[/table]

    Class Skills
    The disciple of Belís class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Handle Animal (Cha), Heal (Wis), Hide (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (history) (Cha), Knowledge (religion) (Cha), Profession (Wis) and Ride (Dex).

    Skill Points
    2 + Int modifier

    Weapon and Armour Proficiency: Disciples of Bel gain proficiency with tower shields.

    Second lieutenant: A disciple of Bel has such personal magnetism that another being approaches him to offer its services as a second cohort. This cohort follows the same rules as normal cohorts, but is four levels below the disciple of Bel instead of two.

    Baatorian Aura: As a standard action, the disciple of Bel can activate an aura that give bonuses to his allies if they are within 60ft. An aura remains active until the disciple falls unconscious, selects a new aura as a standard action or dismisses the aura as a free action. The disciple of Bel gains different auras as he gains levels:

    Spoiler
    Show
    2nd-Passage of the Few: At the beginning of his turn, if a disciple of Bel has this aura active, he can select two allies within 30ft of each other who have line of sight to each other and the disciple of Bel, and cause them to switch places. This acts as a greater teleport, but only works under these conditions. While this aura is active, the air smells faintly of sulfur and a faint screaming can be heard off in the distance.

    3rd-Iron Defendersí reinforcement: Allies in the area of this aura gain a bonus equal to the disciple of Belís class level on rolls to resist being bull-rushed, disarmed, overrun, tripped or to escape a grapple. While this aura is active, the air seems unnaturally still (or if it is windy, the wind seems calm and orderly), and a heartbeat breaks the silence rhythmically.

    4th-Gleaming Guardís armoury: Allies in the area of this aura can ignore a number of points of damage reduction equal to half the disciple of Belís class level. While this aura is active, the weapons of the disciple of Belís allies all appear to be made from gold and encrusted with jewels.

    5th-Skin of the Walkers in Fire: Allies within the area of this aura are immune to the negative effects of any spells cast by their allies. A wizard ally could freely cast fireball in the middle of the group and it would only affect any enemies caught in its area. While this aura is active, allies feel a rush of adrenaline and euphoria, and the air seems to crackle with the sounds of an unseen inferno.

    6th-Caution of the Stygian Champions: Allies with the area of this aura can negate one attack of opportunity they provoke each round. Each ally can only negate an attack of opportunity they provoke (if Rex the barbarian provoked an attack of opportunity while under the effects of this aura, he could negate it. If later that round he provoked another attack of opportunity, his allies could not sacrifice their negation to negate that attack). While this aura is active, all the senses feel numb and cold, and a icy rime settles on the area of the aura.

    7th-Terrain of the Creeping Cadre: The entire area of this aura becomes extremely unsanitary. All enemies who enter the aura (but not those already within when it is activated) must succeed on a Fortitude save (DC 12+half the disciple of Belís level+Cha modifier). Failure causes the opponent to become nauseated for 2d4 rounds or until they leave the aura, which ever comes first. Success means they become sickened for 2d4 rounds or until they leave the aura, whichever comes first. While this aura is active, the ground seems to pulse and squirm like a living things, and becomes slick and sticky.

    8th-Charge of the Maldominaar: Allies within the area of this aura can ignore areas that slow movement or contain creatures when making charge attacks. A charging ally can ignore a number of squares containing difficult or hindering terrain equal to the disciple of Belís charisma modifier, and any creature in the path of a charge provokes an overrun attempt that does not provoke an attack of opportunity. Resolve the overrun attempt normally. While this aura is active, the air buzzes with the sound of countless flies and gnats, and slugs and snails seem to crawl along the ground.

    9th-Eyes of the Serpentine Order: Allies within the area of this aura are immune to surprise, thought they are still flat-footed in the first round of combat until they take their actions (if, for instance, the disciple of Bel and his allies are ambushed by a group of assassins, the assassins donít get a surprise round). While this aura is active, the temperature widely fluctuates between extremely warm and extremely cool (neither enough to cause damage), and becomes saturated with humidity.


    Standard of Bel: A 10th level disciple of Bel can have two Baatorian Auras active at once. He also gains the Standard of Bel a slotless magic emblem that makes him immune to compulsions, poisons and diseases.

    This has been part three of four. Thank you for taking the time to read it.
    This is super flavorful and pretty sweet. The Aura's are pretty powerful and useful, but I recommend adding some more abilities so they don't feel like one trick ponies. Since Bel is the top devil in the blood war how about adding abilities designed for fighting Demons? Start with Smite Chaos (1/day at 1st level, 2/day at 5th level, 3/day at 10th level), which is just like Smite Evil or Smite Good except it affects chaotic characters. Then maybe make this class stack with Fighter levels for purposes of feats and give some fighter bonus feats, after all Fighter/Blackguard is the most likely entry. Maybe grant some sneak attack, which is thematic anyways since in the Blood War you'd be teaming up on demon's a lot, extra damage on a flank would be thematic.

    Edit: Just saw some other stuff. Instead of killing a fiend you've made friendly contact with why not have it say kill a demon of CR 8 or higher or some such? Also I would add Great Cleave to the list of feats needed to get in. Scratch that last part, it would make it too difficult for non fighter entries.
    Edit #2: Add improved sunder to the list of feats required to get in. That way if someone gets in without blackguard they still have to spend the same number of feats.
    Last edited by Drolyt; 2010-02-24 at 06:59 PM.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Sir_Chivalry's Avatar

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    Default Re: Disciple of Bel (DnD 3.5, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by DracoDei View Post
    You give a lot of fluff effects to the auras that are secondary, and I suggest a lot of ways of adding crunch to them. If you want to avoid all that, just say "It is just a DC -10 illusion in the minds of those in the area, and nobody outside the area can detect it at all...


    Does this really fit a LE character and Bel? I don't know anything about Bel, but this doesn't seem to fit the rest of the class, except if Bel is big into commissars and such like.

    Good touch... but make it ALL shields in case someone sneaks into this class without shield proficiency somehow.

    A bit more work for everyone, but it is flavorful.

    Give a base Listen DC (to be modified as normal for distance) for the screaming, and specify if it comes from the character, or every point of the aura (so that the distance can be figured out). If you are feeling ambitious, do similar things for the sulfur smell and scent, including tracking by scent if it doesn't completely vanish outside the range of the aura (for instance as the character is moving along, or when their is a wind).

    Actually if the efffect is purely mental in nature, it could be impossible to hear outside that radius.

    See above about listen stuff.

    I would recommend Hide check penalties, but most GMs are anywhere NEAR that nit-picky realistic.

    Change this to unbeatable SR unless you want people walking through their allies Wall of Force (which I don't recommend).

    Penalty to Spot, Listen, and Search? Is the ice slippery?

    Penalties to Tumble and Balance for slick/sticky ground? Or do they cancel eachother out somehow? Or is it all in your head? Penalties to resist trip and/or bull-rush attempts, especially by flying creatures which need not worry about their own footing?

    Listen DCs?

    What does this look like, can it be destroyed, and if so, how hard/easy is it to replace?


    Note that I haven't said anything about balance one way or another.
    While I appreciate you trying to put mechanical values to fluff things (purely to make the auras more flavourful), I'll just write in the class description that they don't affect mechanics in any way.

    As to the two questions not answered by the above:

    The idea was that if the character comes from blackguard (I understand some could not, such as evil paladins or the Disciple of Levistus from my previous thread), then they have a fiend already who they can murder to enter this class. Unearthed Arcana suggested it was a bearded devil that sponsored blackguardom, and I don't think anything stronger than an erinyes would take much an interest in mortals becoming blackguards. That being said, the disciple-in-training can easily just go out and find an imp, babau or tiefling and make friends with it, then off it.

    And I do think it fits Bel, a pit fiend who clawed his way to the top. There's only one way to do that in Baator, killing the guy above you! (or getting him demoted, but Bel is a WARRIOR!!! THIS IS BAATOR!!!!)

    I'll stat out a little blurb for the Standard of Bel.
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    Default Re: Disciple of Bel (DnD 3.5, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir_Chivalry View Post
    While I appreciate you trying to put mechanical values to fluff things (purely to make the auras more flavourful), I'll just write in the class description that they don't affect mechanics in any way.
    I recommend explaining that it is all in people's heads, rather than leaving the reason WHY it doesn't effect mechanics hanging.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sir_Chivalry View Post
    I don't think anything stronger than an Erinyes would take much an interest in mortals becoming blackguards.
    Well, if the Blackgaurd is coming to the class late (which, for fluff reasons, a lot of them would) then as long as the CR and other measures of the importance of the mortal are high enough, I don't see why it wouldn't. Or are you just saying that the fluff for every existent devil already that is higher CR than an Erinyes doesn't indicate much of a "claws on" approach to the mortal world except in cases where their claws literally become involved? Of course, as long as the fiend remains a trivial challenge to the black-guard, it doesn't matter how high their respective levels get.
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    Default Re: Disciple of Bel (DnD 3.5, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Drolyt View Post
    This is super flavorful and pretty sweet. The Aura's are pretty powerful and useful, but I recommend adding some more abilities so they don't feel like one trick ponies. Since Bel is the top devil in the blood war how about adding abilities designed for fighting Demons? Start with Smite Chaos (1/day at 1st level, 2/day at 5th level, 3/day at 10th level), which is just like Smite Evil or Smite Good except it affects chaotic characters. Then maybe make this class stack with Fighter levels for purposes of feats and give some fighter bonus feats, after all Fighter/Blackguard is the most likely entry. Maybe grant some sneak attack, which is thematic anyways since in the Blood War you'd be teaming up on demon's a lot, extra damage on a flank would be thematic.

    Edit: Just saw some other stuff. Instead of killing a fiend you've made friendly contact with why not have it say kill a demon of CR 8 or higher or some such? Also I would add Great Cleave to the list of feats needed to get in. Scratch that last part, it would make it too difficult for non fighter entries.
    Edit #2: Add improved sunder to the list of feats required to get in. That way if someone gets in without blackguard they still have to spend the same number of feats.
    Added the smite chaos, and I'll work in bonus feats and sneak attack in a couple hours.

    Edit 1: Okay

    Edit 2: Sure to that too.
    Feel free to PM me if you want something PEACHed. I may not be one of the greats, but I'll do it if you ask.

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    Default Re: Disciple of Bel (DnD 3.5, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir_Chivalry View Post
    Added the smite chaos, and I'll work in bonus feats and sneak attack in a couple hours.

    Edit 1: Okay

    Edit 2: Sure to that too.
    For the feats and sneak attack I recommend 3 feats and +3d6 to sneak attack by 10th level. Edit: And you might want to allow both fighter and vile feats, although I don't think there are many good vile feats anyways. Are there any in sources other than BoVD? Like those two books that update the Archfiends to 3.5, I want to call them Fiend Folio 1 and 2 but I think that's a 3.0 sourcebook... Edit 2: The post below me helped! It was Fiendish Codex I was thinking of.
    Last edited by Drolyt; 2010-02-24 at 07:32 PM.

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    Default Re: Disciple of Bel (DnD 3.5, PEACH)

    Wasn't the reason why there was no Disciple of Bel because he didn't have the inclination to actually answer worshipers?

    His Mark of Avernius was pretty damn sweet though [from Fiendish Codex 2]
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    Default Re: Disciple of Bel (DnD 3.5, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Mulletmanalive View Post
    Wasn't the reason why there was no Disciple of Bel because he didn't have the inclination to actually answer worshipers?

    His Mark of Avernius was pretty damn sweet though [from Fiendish Codex 2]
    I think that's the general reason, but that's why I assumed that this class would be for people who wanted to fight in the blood war. I'm sure he's always looking for help in that.

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    Default Re: Disciple of Bel (DnD 3.5, PEACH)

    Difficult to say: he's a devil. They don't trust anyone, especially mortals...

    Thing is, if he doesn't grant assistance, what would you be beyond a Demon-hunting-specialist in a non-good mould? Isn't that just a Hellreaver with the mark of Avernius?

    I merely quibble because this really isn't in the style of the other "Disciple" classes, which were all cult leaders of one type or another, but Bel doesn't have any cults... not to mention, this guy seems to be a war leader rather than a cultist. Heck, the 3rd, 6th and 7th level auras seem connected to other lords!

    I'd call this "Champion of Bel," "Student of Bel" or "General of Avernius," simply because it doesn't really do any cult stuff and seems to have flavour from the other contingents operating on Avernus.
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    Default Re: Disciple of Bel (DnD 3.5, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Mulletmanalive View Post
    Difficult to say: he's a devil. They don't trust anyone, especially mortals...

    Thing is, if he doesn't grant assistance, what would you be beyond a Demon-hunting-specialist in a non-good mould? Isn't that just a Hellreaver with the mark of Avernius?

    I merely quibble because this really isn't in the style of the other "Disciple" classes, which were all cult leaders of one type or another, but Bel doesn't have any cults... not to mention, this guy seems to be a war leader rather than a cultist. Heck, the 3rd, 6th and 7th level auras seem connected to other lords!

    I'd call this "Champion of Bel," "Student of Bel" or "General of Avernius," simply because it doesn't really do any cult stuff and seems to have flavour from the other contingents operating on Avernus.
    But all the others start with Disciple of. Should I be flying in the face of what came before? There really can't be a cult to Bel, he's a warrior without much interest in anything else. But IF there were a cult, these guys would lead it. Mighty captains and generals, fell power dripping from them, leading their men in late night ceremonies in secret places. Sacrificing to the Lord of Avernus, bringing victory in battle. Souls are power in Baator, and the more souls Bel has bound to him, the more he can promote and improve his own forces. A cornugon kills more demons than a barbazu, after all. Maybe even, with enough power, get the mighty Asmodeus to part with 0.001% of his personal guard to bolster the ranks of the Blood War.
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    Default Re: Disciple of Bel (DnD 3.5, PEACH)

    Added in the sneak attack and bonus feats
    Feel free to PM me if you want something PEACHed. I may not be one of the greats, but I'll do it if you ask.

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    Default Re: Disciple of Bel (DnD 3.5, PEACH)

    i'm not sure how to call this one. I'd say General, or for a more "I like Bel" term, Dedicant. That way you're dealing with someone who probably gets nothing more than a nod from Bel.

    I'm going to comment on the fact that compared to the original classes [which aren't powerful but are so damn interesting and awesome that i honestly couldn't care less, plus they do insideous well], this is ludicrously powerful, especially now that you've added bonus feats and sneak attack to it. Yes, i know these help them rather than their allies like the others but what ya gonna do?

    If you wanted an ACTUAL Disciple of Bel, likely if would be geared in such a way that it could build a militant cult rather than the tactician that this is: an ability similar to Mass Rage/Suggestion that allows you to stoke anger and martial pride, the ability to train peasants really fast, heroes feast in there somewhere and some stuff to define the slippery gittishness of Bel's foreign policy.
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    Default Re: Disciple of Bel (DnD 3.5, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Mulletmanalive View Post
    i'm not sure how to call this one. I'd say General, or for a more "I like Bel" term, Dedicant. That way you're dealing with someone who probably gets nothing more than a nod from Bel.

    I'm going to comment on the fact that compared to the original classes [which aren't powerful but are so damn interesting and awesome that i honestly couldn't care less, plus they do insideous well], this is ludicrously powerful, especially now that you've added bonus feats and sneak attack to it. Yes, i know these help them rather than their allies like the others but what ya gonna do?

    If you wanted an ACTUAL Disciple of Bel, likely if would be geared in such a way that it could build a militant cult rather than the tactician that this is: an ability similar to Mass Rage/Suggestion that allows you to stoke anger and martial pride, the ability to train peasants really fast, heroes feast in there somewhere and some stuff to define the slippery gittishness of Bel's foreign policy.
    Most of the disciple classes were underpowered. I believe one of them was super cheesy though, I think it was Asmodeus. At any rate it is a good thing that this class is strong. Because of the way NPC CR is calculated it needs to be. Even if a PC used this class it's still tier 3 at best, more likely tier 4.

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    Default Re: Disciple of Bel (DnD 3.5, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Mulletmanalive View Post
    i'm not sure how to call this one. I'd say General, or for a more "I like Bel" term, Dedicant. That way you're dealing with someone who probably gets nothing more than a nod from Bel.

    I'm going to comment on the fact that compared to the original classes [which aren't powerful but are so damn interesting and awesome that i honestly couldn't care less, plus they do insideous well], this is ludicrously powerful, especially now that you've added bonus feats and sneak attack to it. Yes, i know these help them rather than their allies like the others but what ya gonna do?

    If you wanted an ACTUAL Disciple of Bel, likely if would be geared in such a way that it could build a militant cult rather than the tactician that this is: an ability similar to Mass Rage/Suggestion that allows you to stoke anger and martial pride, the ability to train peasants really fast, heroes feast in there somewhere and some stuff to define the slippery gittishness of Bel's foreign policy.
    I'll call it Disciple for now. But thank you. You raise an interesting point, perhaps I should redux the other five disciple classes?

    What do you guys think?
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    Default Re: Disciple of Bel (DnD 3.5, PEACH)

    I disagree with Droylt for the simple reason that my players don't like spellcasters so i've never found a problem with any of the Disciples in play as villains.

    They may be middling to low 4th tier but they're backed by extraordinary flavour and if actually used per their MO in game, are still a threat as long as you've not got powergaming in play. I'm sure they do crumple like dust-bunnies if used head on but that's really not their point.

    Redo them if you like but please, emphasise the cult/exemplar of bastardry aspects over straight up combat potential.
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    Default Re: Disciple of Bel (DnD 3.5, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Mulletmanalive View Post
    I disagree with Droylt for the simple reason that my players don't like spellcasters so i've never found a problem with any of the Disciples in play as villains.

    They may be middling to low 4th tier but they're backed by extraordinary flavour and if actually used per their MO in game, are still a threat as long as you've not got powergaming in play. I'm sure they do crumple like dust-bunnies if used head on but that's really not their point.

    Redo them if you like but please, emphasise the cult/exemplar of bastardry aspects over straight up combat potential.
    To that I'd have to argue that of course you wouldn't emphasize combat with other disciples. I know the two that came before in my homebrew are slightly martial leaning, but that's because they are a monk class and a swashbuckler-ish class. But BEL IS WAR!!!! BLOOD AND THUNDER!!!! VICTORY AT SEA!!!

    My main idea for the others is to post them as is in the BoVD, with a few tweaks beforehand if I can think of anything, and then the homebrew community, which I guess I now am a part of having homebrewed six things now, can work to better them.

    Would you guys be on board?
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    Default Re: Disciple of Bel (DnD 3.5, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir_Chivalry View Post
    To that I'd have to argue that of course you wouldn't emphasize combat with other disciples. I know the two that came before in my homebrew are slightly martial leaning, but that's because they are a monk class and a swashbuckler-ish class. But BEL IS WAR!!!! BLOOD AND THUNDER!!!! VICTORY AT SEA!!!

    My main idea for the others is to post them as is in the BoVD, with a few tweaks beforehand if I can think of anything, and then the homebrew community, which I guess I now am a part of having homebrewed six things now, can work to better them.

    Would you guys be on board?
    Sure, but one problem. BoVD isn't OGL, so no copy pasta. You'd have to redux them first and post the modified version for us. They need to be upgraded to 3.5 anyways.

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    Default Re: Disciple of Bel (DnD 3.5, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Drolyt View Post
    Sure, but one problem. BoVD isn't OGL, so no copy pasta. You'd have to redux them first and post the modified version for us. They need to be upgraded to 3.5 anyways.
    Ya, went and asked Roland. Said the same thing. So I'll try to come up with something.
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    Default Re: Disciple of Bel (DnD 3.5, PEACH)

    Always found it fascinating that the OGL somehow allows Wizards to ignore the normal rules of copywrite...
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    Default Re: Disciple of Bel (DnD 3.5, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Mulletmanalive View Post
    Always found it fascinating that the OGL somehow allows Wizards to ignore the normal rules of copywrite...
    I'm not sure what you mean?

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    Default Re: Disciple of Bel (DnD 3.5, PEACH)

    Normal copywriting has a "Fair Use" clause wherein you can reproduce up to 5% of the material from a publication or film as long as it's credited and no additional profit is produced [this is at least true in Britain, which works off of American precident].

    Wizards on the other hand jump on anyone who uses the same names even if they're not claimable as IP [such as Azmodeus etc].
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    Default Re: Disciple of Bel (DnD 3.5, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Drolyt View Post
    I'm not sure what you mean?
    I think he's refering to fair use.

    Ninja'd.

    Edit: To be completly honest, I'm probably not going to do the redux for the time being. I just got laid off, and that doesn't help the creative juices. I'm going to basically go as far as changing Disciple of Darkness for Brand of the Nine Hells, and giving every class Mark of _____. Any specific suggestions about things to change for Disciples of (Asmodeus, Baalzebul, Dispater, Mammon, Mephistopholes?) Of course this quesiton assumes you have access to the BoVD.
    Last edited by Sir_Chivalry; 2010-02-26 at 08:15 AM.
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    Default Re: Disciple of Bel (DnD 3.5, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Mulletmanalive View Post
    Normal copywriting has a "Fair Use" clause wherein you can reproduce up to 5% of the material from a publication or film as long as it's credited and no additional profit is produced [this is at least true in Britain, which works off of American precident].

    Wizards on the other hand jump on anyone who uses the same names even if they're not claimable as IP [such as Azmodeus etc].
    That's, uh, not quite correct, although I'm only familiar with American copyright law. Fair Use, where it applies, allows as much material from the source as you want, although using a smaller amount can help your Fair Use claim if it goes to court. At any rate Wizards can only copyright the text in their books, not the ideas, which is why they can't stop us from creating derivative works such as the OPs proposed Redux. As for using names like Asmodeus, that's trademark, not copyright. I have no idea whether Wizards has trademarks on those names but it seems to me they should not. They do have trademarks on thing's like Bigsby and Mordenkainen which is why those aren't in the SRD.

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    Default Re: Disciple of Bel (DnD 3.5, PEACH)

    From the sounds of it, that was sudden. You have my sympathies.

    I'll have a look at BoVD later. You have a point that some of them lack any real "Cult" in the class [Mephistophiles ones being basically "i have been gifted with more innate power than you, lesser minions!" in the World of Warcraft style of cult]
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    Default Re: Disciple of Bel (DnD 3.5, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Drolyt View Post
    That's, uh, not quite correct, although I'm only familiar with American copyright law. Fair Use, where it applies, allows as much material from the source as you want, although using a smaller amount can help your Fair Use claim if it goes to court. At any rate Wizards can only copyright the text in their books, not the ideas, which is why they can't stop us from creating derivative works such as the OPs proposed Redux. As for using names like Asmodeus, that's trademark, not copyright. I have no idea whether Wizards has trademarks on those names but it seems to me they should not. They do have trademarks on thing's like Bigsby and Mordenkainen which is why those aren't in the SRD.
    To be fair, you can't trademark things you didn't invent (well you can, but for this argument let's keep it simple without the loopholes.) Asmodeus, Dispater, Mammon, Belial, Levistus, Baalzebul, Mephistopholes, Bel, all of those are older than dirt.

    Edit: Thanks Mulletman
    Last edited by Sir_Chivalry; 2010-02-26 at 08:33 AM.
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    Default Re: Disciple of Bel (DnD 3.5, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir_Chivalry View Post
    To be fair, you can't trademark things you didn't invent (well you can, but for this argument let's keep it simple without the loopholes.) Asmodeus, Dispater, Mammon, Belial, Levistus, Baalzebul, Mephistopholes, Bel, all of those are older than dirt.

    Edit: Thanks Mulletman
    It's arguable whether they could. I think Asmodeus could be trademarked specifically in uses relevant to the D&D setting, but not in other uses. But yeah, sorry bout the job. My families gone through a bit of that lately too, but things have actually turned around for me lately, hopefully they will for you too.

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    Default Re: Disciple of Bel (DnD 3.5, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Drolyt View Post
    That's, uh, not quite correct, although I'm only familiar with American copyright law. Fair Use, where it applies, allows as much material from the source as you want, although using a smaller amount can help your Fair Use claim if it goes to court.
    I'm only familiar with this stuff as a result of checking publications for University publishing. The legal department said 5% and it was kosher so i didn't question it.

    Not that this is the place, it's just a throw away comment, but there's something deeply wrong with any legal system that allows someone to trademark the phrase "You're fired."

    I've checked and it seems, from the boilerplate here, that Wizards have trademarked the names in specific linkage to the circles of hell and their specific physical descriptions. Were we to reorder the names, and go with a Divine Comedy route, they'd have no hold on it. Anyway...

    Disciple of Asmodeus: Lord of Oppression [Satan with a slightly better haircut...]. Does scheming pretty well really, though it could probably do it better. It's spell improvement is generally in the wrong places, its capstone isn't really worth having and most of its abilities are usable too rarely to be useful.

    I think that it should have the 'Aura of Fear' power that the Crimelord from Starwars Saga has, more control over its minions and a decent capstone but its flavour is pretty much in the right places.

    Command at 2nd level can be replaced with Brand or Mark of Nessus without issue, i think.

    Disciple of Beelzebub: Lord of Lies. This class kind of does what it sets out to do but could do it much better. Varios class features from the Dis of Mammon really belong here: the Lies ability, Non-detection and possibly Divert attack.

    A few useful abilities would be the ability to create a patsy - someone onto whom the blame is shunted from the character. I'd change some of the Suggestion spells and so forth to be effects of bluff checks with higher than necessary rolls. That way, they're just passively good at creating viral lies and rumours.

    Disciple of Dispater: Lord of Paranoia. This one needs some more planning type abilities. As it is, it's just a slightly pants take on the Dwarven Defender and somewhat weaker than the oft considered underpowered Defender of Sentiel.

    Off hand, it needs an escape route ability, probably either Dimension Door or Word of Recall, an infinite supply of Alarm spells and preferably the ability to produce Guards and Wards in place of some of the other rubbish it's been given. Full BAB is great and makes sense but that doesn't mean that you should only have offensive type abilities...

    Disciple of Mammon: King of Greed. This one is a mess, but one of the most important changes needed can be summed up as: Thieves Guild. He needs one. Big time. That should be the first damn point of call for a Greed exemplar.

    The Divert abilities don't fit either Greed or Lust, so they should be replaced with something else. The Gulegon summon as a capstone is pants and doesn't make sense. His layer is a stinking mire, what does that have to do with ice devils?

    For a Capstone, part of me thinks that a vault of practically infinite funds should be included, though the investment must be repaid to the vaults of Mammon within a year at x3 value... not sure how it would work but it should REALLY scream GREED whatever we come up with.

    Disciple of Mephistophiles: Lord of Fire and Magic [?]. I'm going to make him [Ill gotten power] in my head. His disciples need the most work in a redux. They really don't get enough "look at what i can do" for their level...

    If anything, i would have said that THIS was the full casting class. Preferably with minor powers at most levels that push it into the "innate power" area. Possibly very specific invocations.

    The entry requirements on this one are the easiest of all to meet, yet those who would approach Mephistophiles, those seeking easy power are the least likely to meet them [warriors being more experience and practice than knowledge] and non warriors have to be higher level to get into this class, which would retard them into the ground, than a fighter would.

    I'd say that it should grant slots [so casting progression, either innate or +1 level stype] and then have the ability to permanently expend slots to gain Invocation powers with consequences [possibly Subdual damage or something] in an expression of Faustian barginning.

    Fire based of course.

    __________________________________________________ _______________

    If folks would like, i'd be happy to kick out the draft of the Mephistophiles one
    for it has picqued my interest mechanically...love me some Faustian Bargins...
    Mine is not so much a Peter Pan Complex as a Peter Pan Doom Fortress and Underground LairTM!
    Fae-o-matic Want a fae from folklore stated? Give me the lore and I'll do it for you!
    Le Cirque Funeste Evil Fairy Circus! Ray Bradbury, refined down to snortable powder!

  29. - Top - End - #29
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Sir_Chivalry's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2007

    Default Re: Disciple of Bel (DnD 3.5, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Mulletmanalive View Post
    I'm only familiar with this stuff as a result of checking publications for University publishing. The legal department said 5% and it was kosher so i didn't question it.

    Not that this is the place, it's just a throw away comment, but there's something deeply wrong with any legal system that allows someone to trademark the phrase "You're fired."

    I've checked and it seems, from the boilerplate here, that Wizards have trademarked the names in specific linkage to the circles of hell and their specific physical descriptions. Were we to reorder the names, and go with a Divine Comedy route, they'd have no hold on it. Anyway...

    Disciple of Asmodeus: Lord of Oppression [Satan with a slightly better haircut...]. Does scheming pretty well really, though it could probably do it better. It's spell improvement is generally in the wrong places, its capstone isn't really worth having and most of its abilities are usable too rarely to be useful.

    I think that it should have the 'Aura of Fear' power that the Crimelord from Starwars Saga has, more control over its minions and a decent capstone but its flavour is pretty much in the right places.

    Command at 2nd level can be replaced with Brand or Mark of Nessus without issue, i think.

    Disciple of Beelzebub: Lord of Lies. This class kind of does what it sets out to do but could do it much better. Varios class features from the Dis of Mammon really belong here: the Lies ability, Non-detection and possibly Divert attack.

    A few useful abilities would be the ability to create a patsy - someone onto whom the blame is shunted from the character. I'd change some of the Suggestion spells and so forth to be effects of bluff checks with higher than necessary rolls. That way, they're just passively good at creating viral lies and rumours.

    Disciple of Dispater: Lord of Paranoia. This one needs some more planning type abilities. As it is, it's just a slightly pants take on the Dwarven Defender and somewhat weaker than the oft considered underpowered Defender of Sentiel.

    Off hand, it needs an escape route ability, probably either Dimension Door or Word of Recall, an infinite supply of Alarm spells and preferably the ability to produce Guards and Wards in place of some of the other rubbish it's been given. Full BAB is great and makes sense but that doesn't mean that you should only have offensive type abilities...

    Disciple of Mammon: King of Greed. This one is a mess, but one of the most important changes needed can be summed up as: Thieves Guild. He needs one. Big time. That should be the first damn point of call for a Greed exemplar.

    The Divert abilities don't fit either Greed or Lust, so they should be replaced with something else. The Gulegon summon as a capstone is pants and doesn't make sense. His layer is a stinking mire, what does that have to do with ice devils?

    For a Capstone, part of me thinks that a vault of practically infinite funds should be included, though the investment must be repaid to the vaults of Mammon within a year at x3 value... not sure how it would work but it should REALLY scream GREED whatever we come up with.

    Disciple of Mephistophiles: Lord of Fire and Magic [?]. I'm going to make him [Ill gotten power] in my head. His disciples need the most work in a redux. They really don't get enough "look at what i can do" for their level...

    If anything, i would have said that THIS was the full casting class. Preferably with minor powers at most levels that push it into the "innate power" area. Possibly very specific invocations.

    The entry requirements on this one are the easiest of all to meet, yet those who would approach Mephistophiles, those seeking easy power are the least likely to meet them [warriors being more experience and practice than knowledge] and non warriors have to be higher level to get into this class, which would retard them into the ground, than a fighter would.

    I'd say that it should grant slots [so casting progression, either innate or +1 level stype] and then have the ability to permanently expend slots to gain Invocation powers with consequences [possibly Subdual damage or something] in an expression of Faustian barginning.

    Fire based of course.

    __________________________________________________ _______________

    If folks would like, i'd be happy to kick out the draft of the Mephistophiles one
    for it has picqued my interest mechanically...love me some Faustian Bargins...
    Hey I'm not proud. Punch out the Disciple of Mephistopholes, anything that helps me make the most of my npc villains.
    Feel free to PM me if you want something PEACHed. I may not be one of the greats, but I'll do it if you ask.

    "One of us is tender,
    One of us is not,
    One of us takes vengeance,
    All four tied in a knot
    "

    My homebrew

    (U)sually in any game situation the biggest control freak will gravitate towards the job of being the GM anyway.

  30. - Top - End - #30
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Sir_Chivalry's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2007

    Default Re: Disciple of Bel (DnD 3.5, PEACH)

    Should point out that the Disciple of Dispater and the Disciple of Asmodeus are both considered fairly strong classes, but the Asmodeus one probably just needs tweaking, it is at a fine level of power, and the Dispater one can be lowered by changing one line of text: "This stacks with Improved Critical."
    Feel free to PM me if you want something PEACHed. I may not be one of the greats, but I'll do it if you ask.

    "One of us is tender,
    One of us is not,
    One of us takes vengeance,
    All four tied in a knot
    "

    My homebrew

    (U)sually in any game situation the biggest control freak will gravitate towards the job of being the GM anyway.

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