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    GnomeWizardGuy

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    Default Decisive Strike (from PH2)

    I didn't read anything to the contrary, but does it let you use it even in armor?Since it's a feature that replaces flurry which doesn't work while armored.

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    Default Re: Decisive Strike (from PH2)

    Since there is no prohibition in the power description, Decisive Strike does indeed work in armor. However, you should note that the Monk's AC bonus only works in no armor, the Monk's Fast Movement only works in no armor, Evasion only works in no armor or light armor (or mithril medium armor). I would not give up any of these features in exchange for slightly better AC.

    Also note that Decisive Strike is a Full Round Action (not a full attack action like Flurry of Blows). So you can't get an extra attacks from a Haste effect, Two Weapon Fighting, natural attacks, etc. And Decisive Strike doesn't scale above 11th level. The math works against Decisive Strike, unless you can reliably generate multiple attacks of opportunity every round.

    What build did you have in mind?

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    Chimera

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    Default Re: Decisive Strike (from PH2)

    The math works against Decisive Strike, unless you can reliably generate multiple attacks of opportunity every round.
    I think that someone on enworld once churned the numbers, and discovered that a fighter's full attack was mathematically the same as him making a single attack at double damage (or 2 attacks at highest bab), same as his overwhelming assault PHB2 variant.

    I think it would be the same for the monk, decisive strike should be the equivalent of a full attack + flurry. Remember that dr applies only once for decisive strike, and iterative attacks are less likely to hit anyways. And once you get snap kick...

    Granted, once you start throwing in extra attacks such as haste...

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    Default Re: Decisive Strike (from PH2)

    Quote Originally Posted by Runestar View Post
    I think that someone on enworld once churned the numbers, and discovered that a fighter's full attack was mathematically the same as him making a single attack at double damage (or 2 attacks at highest bab), same as his overwhelming assault PHB2 variant.

    I think it would be the same for the monk, decisive strike should be the equivalent of a full attack + flurry. Remember that dr applies only once for decisive strike, and iterative attacks are less likely to hit anyways. And once you get snap kick...

    Granted, once you start throwing in extra attacks such as haste...
    Re: Decisive Strike Math

    Bonus dice (Sneak Attack, Sudden Strike, Skirmish, Dungeoncrasher, bonus dice from magical enchantments, etc) are not multiplied. Status effects (Daze, Stagger, Nauseated, Fear, etc) triggered by attacks generally require a Save, so you want as many attacks as possible. By the same token any combo that relies on a special attack (Knockback, Knock-Down, Scorpion's Grasp, Snatch Weapon, Combat Brute) generally wants as many attacks per round as possible.

    So that leaves you with scaled non-dice damage. And the main source of that is a Power Attack combo. To pull off a Power Attack combo you need/want full BAB, and you usually want to Charge (which is an important trigger for Shock Trooper, Leap Attack, Spirited Charge, etc). But Decisive Strike requires Monk levels (lacks full BAB) and is a Full Round Action (and thus can't be made as part of a Charge attack, unlike a Full Attack Action if you have Pounce). Thus, even if you make 2-4 double damage attacks every round, you're unlikely to match the damage from any full BAB class making 2-4+ normal attacks using a superior Power Attack combo.

    But the bigger math breaker is the fact that Decisive Strike prevents you from getting extra attacks (TWF, natural weapons, Haste, etc) from anything but attacks of opportunity. So even at low-mid levels before Power Attack kicks in, someone making multiple attacks is likely to deal more damage then a Decisive Strike Monk.

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    Default Re: Decisive Strike (from PH2)

    I thought it was general consensus to only use Decisive strike on AoO builds using Robilar's Gambit.

    Also does Decisive attack scale with monk levels as FoB? because if not a Tashalastorra build sounds tempting
    something like monk1/psywar 5/SlayerX?
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    AssassinGuy

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    Default Re: Decisive Strike (from PH2)

    Quote Originally Posted by Dusk Eclipse View Post
    I thought it was general consensus to only use Decisive strike on AoO builds using Robilar's Gambit.

    Also does Decisive attack scale with monk levels as FoB? because if not a Tashalastorra build sounds tempting
    something like monk1/psywar 5/SlayerX?
    You get to negate the -2 and you get an extra attack, just as normal flurry.

    The big problem with decisive strike is the monk's 3/4BAB, which delays Robilar's Gambit significantly longer than with a more standard AoO build. Going Fighter16 with Overpowering Attack (basically the same thing, also PHB2) and making yourself a Jack B. Quick build sounds a LOT better to me. Of course, I suppose you could grab Monk1 and then go into normal AoO fighter build and just eat the -2 to hit.
    Last edited by lsfreak; 2010-02-26 at 12:30 PM.
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    Imp

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    Default Re: Decisive Strike (from PH2)

    First talshatora i don't think is nessasary unless you want the extra unarmed damage. which Like person man said decisive strike is more about static damage.
    Also i belive you can use the ability as much as you want instead of monk levels per day. So a single monk level or the ususaly 2 monk dip is enough.


    Also I belive snap kick lets you get another attack. If i remember correctly.
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    AssassinGuy

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    Default Re: Decisive Strike (from PH2)

    Quote Originally Posted by RagnaroksChosen View Post
    Also I belive snap kick lets you get another attack. If i remember correctly.
    Due to wording, I believe Snap Kick may be one of the only ways of getting extra attacks with Decisive Strike. Decisive Strike is clearly listed as a full-round action, not an attack of any kind, so haste, ToB boosts, and all related things won't add any extra attacks. Snap Kick, thanks to weird wording... if it does work, it would be doubled in damage as well.
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    Chimera

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    Default Re: Decisive Strike (from PH2)

    Assuming you go pure monk, he will not be getting any variable damage die added to his attacks anyways, since the only way of improving his unarmed strikes comes in the form of amulet of mighty fists, which adds a straight enhancement bonus.

    Stunning fist works only 1/round, so decisive strike has the slight advantage because of the +2DC it adds.

    Granted, there are feats like fiery ki which adds fire damage to your blows, in this case, you will want to make as many attacks as possible, so flurry wins.

    I believe the intention of decisive strike was to speed up the game, by letting the monk make just 1 solid attack each round, rather than waste so much time rolling for so many attacks (of which half will likely miss).

    So the tradeoff is essentially damage for faster resolution of combat.

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    GnomeWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Decisive Strike (from PH2)

    Here's the build I had in mind

    Race: Human
    Alignment: Lawful Good

    STATS (32 pts buy)

    STR 16
    DEX 8
    CON 16
    INT 10
    WIS 8
    CHA 16

    possible templates: Draconic, Dragonborn of Bahamut, Half-Dragon

    Gear: Quarterstaff + Heavy armor

    ACF or Variants

    Monk: Decisive strike (PH2), overwhelming attack variant (SRD)
    Paladin: Holy warrior (Co Champion, no spellcasting= gain 4 feats at level 4,7,11 and 14 from limited list), Charging smite Paladin (no mount, double smite damage on charges)

    1 Monk Travel Devotion, Improved bullrush bonus feat: Power Attack
    2 Paladin
    3 Paladin improved sunder
    4 Paladin
    5 Paladin bonus feat: Divine might
    6 Paladin Leap Attack
    7 Paladin
    8 Paladin bonus feat: extra smites
    9 Paladin Shock Trooper
    10 Paladin
    11 Paladin
    12 Paladin Combat Brute bonus feat: extra turnings

    Result: Charge/Leap something evil with travel devotion

    power attack is x2 with a 2handed weapon, another x2 from leap, smite x2 from charge, everything x2 from decisive strike

    result: power attack x4 damage, smite evil x3 damage , if necessary add divine might for extra static damage
    Last edited by Soranar; 2010-02-26 at 08:07 PM.

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