Pale Master <3.5e>

[LichPrinceAlim]

In d&d, divine almost always is the way to go in Necromancy: Wizard sucks and Dread Necromancer without Mother Cyst is an epic flop.

Fear not arcane necromancers! For Pale Master has arrived.

However, you lose 5 cl in its progression.

so...

Could an

Illumian (krau)
Dread Necromancer 8/Pale Master (version that only requires nongood and 3rd lv spells) 10/Archmage 3
with Tomb Tainted Soul, Mother Cyst. Practiced Spellcaster, Copsecrafter, Frightening Necromancy, Fell Animate, Arcane Discipline (Deathless)
and the Flaws Murky-Eyed and Shaky

Function as a "full" spellcaster for Epic Spellcasting?

Edit: if not, is there a better build option? I realise Dread Necro is an 8 level class, with arcane spellcasting. I refuse to be a cleric, due to the "must worship a god" rule. Note: I realise also that technically, I'd worship a god for the Deathless domain. However, I'm taking the homebrew Necromancer's Pantheon, which goes from Wee Jas to Orcus

[Raging_Pacifist]

Where is the Pale Master located? I don't seem to have heard of it...

[Pluto]

Lose 5 CL?

The version in Libris Mortis is 9/10. It should be the most recent incarnation of the class.

edit:

Function as a "full" spellcaster for Epic Spellcasting?

If PM were a 5/10 casting class, no it wouldn't.
Epic Spellcasting requires level 9 spells.
There are some cheesy ways to get those (Versatile Spellcaster, Earth Spell, etc.), but your build doesn't have them.

[LichPrinceAlim]

Lose 5 CL?

The version in Libris Mortis is 9/10. It should be the most recent incarnation of the class.

edit:

If PM were a 5/10 casting class, no it wouldn't.
Epic Spellcasting requires level 9 spells.
There are some cheesy ways to get those (Versatile Spellcaster, Earth Spell, etc.), but your build doesn't have them.

I'll gladly take the 9/10 casting!!!

I meant the other one from T&B

[JoshuaZ]

I'll gladly take the 9/10 casting!!!

I meant the other one from T&B

T&B is 3.0. Pretty much everything there is obsolete and has been updated in a later book. With the exception of the True Necromancer (that is in Tome and Blood yes?) pretty much everything got to be as strong or stronger in the remade version.

[LichPrinceAlim]

T&B is 3.0. Pretty much everything there is obsolete and has been updated in a later book. With the exception of the True Necromancer (that is in Tome and Blood yes?) pretty much everything got to be as strong or stronger in the remade version.

good point. However, True Necro and Blood Magus went south in 3.5e. so LM Pale Master is a good choice overall, thus freeing up one feat, but for what?

[Pluto]

Bolster Resistance and Nimble Bones (both from LM) are pretty good for corpsecrafters.

[LichPrinceAlim]

Bolster Resistance and Nimble Bones (both from LM) are pretty good for corpsecrafters.

okay, do Bolster Resistance.

And now, I also can scrap Illumain in favor of another race. But which one...

Human? Well, no cha boost
Star Elf? Cha boost, Str drop. eh....
Dragonborn (Mind) Hellbred (Spirit): +2 Cha -2 Dex, telepathy and dragonic immunities. Possibility
Espionage Human (d20m): Human with +2 Cha?! Holy ****. With the bonus feat and sp boost? really really cool...

Any other ops?

[LichPrinceAlim]

So, would this be neigh perfect?

Race: Human
Class: Dread Necromancer 10/Pale Master 10
Feats: Tomb Tainted Soul, Mother Cyst, Bolster Resistence, Black Lore of Moil , Copsecrafter, Frightening Necromancy, Fell Animate, Arcane Discipline (Deathless)
Flaws: Murky-Eyed and Shaky
Weapon: Scythe, Dagger
Armor: None
Items: Cloak of Charisma, Rod of Undead Mastery
Alignment: Lawful Evil
Deity: Necromancer's Pantheon (Vecna, Nerull, Orcus, Wee Jas)

[cZak]

Fell animate seems kind of unimpressive. Maybe swap for Destruction retribution; exploding undead 1d6/ 2HD negative energy. Works good to heal your minions and yourself.

[JoshuaZ]

Fell animate seems kind of unimpressive.

The nice thing about Fell animate is that if you start with helpless living things and you coup de grace them with fell animated versions of low level spells then you don't need to pay for the expensive material components for animating undead.

[Volkov]

And fell animate has no limit as to how many zombies you can make. So you could theoretically make an infinitely large army of zombies.

[KillianHawkeye]

The nice thing about Fell animate is that if you start with helpless living things and you coup de grace them with fell animated versions of low level spells then you don't need to pay for the expensive material components for animating undead.

Yeah, Fell Animated inflict light wounds on unconscious, dying creatures FTW. Too bad my old Dread Necro died at such a low level and never got to do that.

[Volkov]

Yeah, Fell Animated inflict light wounds on unconscious, dying creatures FTW. Too bad my old Dread Necro died at such a low level and never got to do that.

Don't forget the potentially infinite number of zombies.

[KillianHawkeye]

Don't forget the potentially infinite number of zombies.

No. Fell Animate explicitly follows the rules for controlling undead as though they were made with the animate dead spell. Specifically, it's referring to this paragraph from the animate dead spell description:

The undead you create remain under your control indefinitely. No matter how many times you use this spell, however, you can control only 4 HD worth of undead creatures per caster level. If you exceed this number, all the newly created creatures fall under your control, and any excess undead from previous castings become uncontrolled. (You choose which creatures are released.) If you are a cleric, any undead you might command by virtue of your power to command or rebuke undead do not count toward the limit.

So it's only infinite if you just wanna unleash uncontrolled zombies upon the countryside, not if you want to make an arbitrarily large army of undead slaves.

[Volkov]

No. Fell Animate explicitly follows the rules for controlling undead as though they were made with the animate dead spell. Specifically, it's referring to this paragraph from the animate dead spell description:



So it's only infinite if you just wanna unleash uncontrolled zombies upon the countryside, not if you want to make an arbitrarily large army of undead slaves.

It says it does not count against your limit of undead you can control through spells.

[tyckspoon]

It says it does not count against your limit of undead you can control through spells.

You don't seem to be reading the same Fell Animate as the rest of us. It says 'the standard rules for controlling undead', which includes the HD by CL cap. Mind explaining what you believe exempts Fell Animate?

[KillianHawkeye]

It says it does not count against your limit of undead you can control through spells.

Not in my copy it doesn't.

[Dr Bwaa]

You've read this, right?