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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Reinholdt's Avatar

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    Default Playground Squares: WW Edition (Game Start on Page 2)

    It was another day on the set of Playground Squares. The buzzer and bell rang back and forth between
    Spoiler
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    BZZZZZZZT!!
    and
    Spoiler
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    DINGDINGDING!!
    as Reinholdt hopped back and forth between the two buttons. The shows very own Vanna White Lex-kat was updating the board, drawing more than a few viewers with her pixie looks. In the squares, various playgrounders dodge falling X's and O's while making out, tossing pies at each other, and hosing each other down in between flying through the rafters and launching bombs. Down on the stage, Atreyu was desperately trying to make himself heard so he could ask the next question, but Supagoof had stolen the microphone in order to sing his most recently composed ballad.

    All in all, everything was normal.

    Well... not everything. Behind the scenes, and behind the set, and past the empty donut box someone forgot to throw away, and behind the closed door in the not-so-empty janitor's closet, treachery was brewing. Treachery most foul. No wait... that's just the cleaning solution. Anyways, the closet was filled to the brim with people sitting around a table. They really couldn't fit very well, so it was all very awkward as they scrunched together in a mass of limbs and hair.

    The Janitor of Playground Squares begins. "Do you know why I called this meeting?"

    "Umm... no. But could you hurry it up? It's stuffy in here and my make-up is running."

    "And I left the camera running by itself."

    "I gotta flick the lights on and off. At random sometimes."

    "Silence! I mean... ahem. The reason I called you here today is that we, my friends, are underpaid."

    "I'm an itern."

    "Did I remember to pick up my pay stubs?"

    "You get paid?"

    The Janitor shakes his head. "What I mean is that we are underappreciated! Look at all we do. Every day they wreck the place, and every day we have to clean it up!"

    "Well actually, that's just your job. All I do is make-up."

    "I'm just a cameraman. Without a camera. Cause I'm sitting in a smelly closet!"

    "I don't actually work here, I just like screwing with the lighting."

    The Janitor slams his fist down on the table. "But don't you people want more? Wouldn't you rather... be in charge of the show? Get paid the big bucks?"

    "Well... I would like to show off some new styles but they won't let me put it on the Llama. Something about pink fur."

    "I guess it'd be fun to be in front of the camera instead of behind it."

    "I suppose it couldn't hurt anything."

    "Then its settled. Today, let them have their fun. For tomorrow, we shall RULE THE SQUARES!!"

    "Actually, I have a doctor's appointment tomorrow."

    "I got a movie I'm going to see."

    "What about Wednesday? Can we rule on Wednesday instead? I just like the name. Wed-nes-day. Hehe."

    The Janitor sighed. But the wheels of betrayal were set in motion. Soon, the Squares will be his, and cleanliness would be had!


    Rules
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    This game is run in three phases.

    Daytime - Lasts for approx. 48 hours. Choose a player to be lynched and a category. Choose the player in red and the category in blue. Instead of being lynched, the player will be taken to...

    Twilight - The person chosen will be asked a question based on the category chosen. They then have 24 hours to give an answer. Should they fail to do so within the time allotted, they die just as if they were lynched normally. A notification PM will be sent to the player at the start of the twilight phase.

    Nighttime - Lasts 24 hours. Those with night actions send in their actions. Everyone looks at the answer given to the question and decide whether they agree that the answer is correct or disagree with the answer, publicly voting in thread. At night's end, the votes will be tallied. If the player up for lynch successfully tricks the other players into either agreeing with a wrong answer or disagreeing with a correct answer, the player lives. Otherwise, the player dies just as if lynched.

    -This lynch protection only works once and only once. So if someone were to survive one lynching through the question process, then get chosen to be lynched later, they would die without being given a question.

    -Looking up the answers to questions is discouraged. Posting a link to a post or thread or otherwise directly indicating where an answer may be found is NOT allowed and will result in the death of the guilty party.
    (ex. I agree because post 465 of You thread XI clearly shows...)

    To reiterate...
    Quote Originally Posted by Lex-kat
    At the end of the day, the lynchee is asked a question.

    After he answers, the remainder of the player's vote to either agree or disagree with him.

    If the lynchee answers correctly, but most of the voters disagrees with him, he is saved.

    If the lynchee answers incorrectly, but most of the voters agree with him, he is saved.


    If the lynchee answers correctly, and most of the voters agree with him, he dies.

    If the lynchee answers incorrectly, and most of the votes disagree with him, he dies.


    You can only be saved from lynching one time like this, per game.
    -Helgraf's Scry Interference is present in this game.


    Roles
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    Overpaid Employees (good)
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    Audience (villagers) - These people pulled off the street appear in the stands with the sole purpose of making it look like the show has more viewers than it does and to have someone clap for the contestants. Despite strict rules to the contrary, they often shout out their agreements and disagreements to the squares and the show often degrades into mob rule.

    Diehard Fans (masons) - These people make it a living watching a game show. Over and over and over... There isn't a single episode they haven't memorized. They've even joined a community of like minded individuals and can point each other out in the audience now that their dreams of being on the show has been realized.

    Jeopardy contestant (seer) - Accidentally wandered onto the wrong set, this brainiac can accurately determine someone's real nature each night.

    Price is Right contestant (fool) - Also accidentally wandered onto the wrong set, this contestants brain is packed with commercials and information on neutering one's pet. He thinks he's the Jeopardy contestant.

    Host (baner) - Often the main attraction of the show, he can try to keep things from going too off course by keeping one person safe from the machinations of the background crew each night. How he keeps his sanity is a secret only he knows.

    Underpaid Employees (evil)
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    Background Crew (wolves) - This motley assortment of cameramen, make-up artists, and cue card holders are tired of playing second fiddle and are trying to take over the show.

    Janitor (devil) - The janitor has spent more time on the set than anyone. Cleaning up after all those messy people with their hoses and their missiles and their pies. Well enough is enough! Having spent so much time in the background, the janitor is able to accurately determine a person's role each night for the background crew.

    Rival Company (neutral)
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    Saboteur - The Saboteur was hired from a rival company intending to send the Playground Squares ratings plummeting. Not really sure how to do this since the show's ratings are currently stuck at chocolate covered canary, the Saboteur decided to settle for just removing the game show element. Every night, he picks a player. The next day, if that player would be chosen to be asked a question, that player is lynched directly with no chance to try and fool the audience. The Saboteur wins when he successfully causes X number of players to be lynched without a question. X is directly related to the number of players and will be revealed at game start. Once the Saboteur has accomplished this, he will leave the game with a win.

    For this game, X = 2.



    Player List
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    {table=head]Player|Signed Up|Question Remaining?|Killed On|Role
    Thufir|1|No|Day 6|Wolf
    Fin|2|No|Day 1|Seer or Fool
    The Bookworm|3|No|Day 2|Mason
    Irbis|4|No|Day 2|Villager
    Evnafets|5|Yes||
    Zar Peter|6|No|Night 3|Villager
    Trixie|7|Yes||
    Deathslayer7|8|No|Day 4|Wolf
    Uncle Festy|9|No|Night 4|Villager
    Hyozo|10|No|Day 5|Mason
    The Bushranger|11|No|Day 7|Villager
    Fleeing Coward|12|No|Day 5|Villager
    Je dit Viola|13|No|Night 7|Villager
    rakkoon|14|No|Night 5|Villager
    lostlittlebear|15|No|Day 3|Villager
    Zombieninja|16|No|Night 2|Mason
    billtodamax|17|Yes||
    The Fiery Tower|18|No|Day 5|Wolf
    Nehh|19|Yes||
    Sanity702|20|Yes||
    Helgraf|21|No|Night 6|Villager
    Castaras|22|Yes||
    Diva De|23|No|Day 4|Villager[/table]


    Auto-lynch Replacement
    1. Dallas-Dakota



    A sample game may be found here. It started in Playground Squares and got moved to its own thread. In the trial game, people played as other playgrounders who had to be targeted for instead in order to get lynched. This will NOT be occurring in this game.
    Last edited by Reinholdt; 2010-04-20 at 09:57 PM.
    ~Chibi Rein by Siena
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    -My theme song.
    -Nyahahaha~
    Quote Originally Posted by Supagoof View Post
    Tale as old as thread
    And you find yourself dead
    Reinholdt was the Beast

    [/music]
    Quote Originally Posted by Philistine View Post
    Reinholdt had already told the truth once in that post, and therefore was over his annual quota.

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  2. - Top - End - #2
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Thufir's Avatar

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    Default Re: Playground Squares: WW edition (Now Recruiting)

    Quote Originally Posted by Reinholdt View Post
    Posting a link to a post or thread or otherwise directly indicating where an answer may be found is NOT allowed and will result in the death of the guilty party.
    (ex. I agree because post 465 of You thread XI clearly shows...)
    Can we falsely directly indicate where an answer may be found? By, say, referring to a thread which does not, in fact, exist?
    Purely for teh lulz, you understand.

    Oh, and in.
    Spoiler: Amusing/nice quotes
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cobra_Ikari View Post
    *is too much awesome to behold*

    *runs awaaaaaay*
    Quote Originally Posted by Introbulus View Post
    Decent? Are you kidding? That is an epic win, good sir. *Shakes your hand*
    Quote Originally Posted by Jibar View Post
    Thufir I love the chess set and wish I had my own.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Orc in the Playground
     
    Fin's Avatar

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    Default Re: Playground Squares: WW edition (Now Recruiting)

    In, with Cake
    Waiting for that day, when we all have the time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dirk Kris View Post
    I'll never trust you again. Even if we're on the same team. Even if the narrators tell me to.
    Monkeytar by me!/DYF Avatar by Mr Saturn!
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  4. - Top - End - #4
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    The Bookworm's Avatar

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    Default Re: Playground Squares: WW edition (Now Recruiting)

    In, even though I can't be someone else.
    Avatar by The Neoclassic

    WW Game Roles:
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    Games Played: 21
    Devil: 1
    Wolf: 2
    Wolf Alpha: 1
    Co-Narrator: 2
    Narrator: 1
    Villager: 13
    Other (Weird): 1


    Trophies
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  5. - Top - End - #5
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Supagoof's Avatar

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    Default Re: Playground Squares: WW edition (Now Recruiting)

    Quote Originally Posted by Thufir View Post
    Can we falsely directly indicate where an answer may be found? By, say, referring to a thread which does not, in fact, exist?
    Purely for teh lulz, you understand.

    Oh, and in.
    Heh. Go ahead and tempt fate.

    I mean, if you falsely do it that's fine, but the narrators don't check it, well then how would we know? We certainly aren't going to check every thread. We may just kill you.

    Purely for teh lulz, you understand.
    Legionary of Protection
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lex-kat View Post
    It wasn't that easy. Supagoof's just that good.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow View Post
    This is LLD, which, I shouldn't have to tell you, will not bow to your math because it was DESIGNED to ruin it!
    Quote Originally Posted by Murska View Post
    Summary:
    Supagoof has won the game and withdrawn. He was Epic

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Atreyu the Masked LLama's Avatar

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    Default Re: Playground Squares: WW edition (Now Recruiting)

    Join in, or the llama will bite your tail....or other extremity if you don't have a tail and llama bites HURT!
    inner circle Legionary of Resiliance
    I love my Ceikatars!
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    Caution: Llama posting

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Irbis's Avatar

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    Default Re: Playground Squares: WW edition (Now Recruiting)

    In!

    And throw in Trixie, while we are at it. In mini-text!
    Above Us Only Sky


  8. - Top - End - #8
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: Playground Squares: WW edition (Now Recruiting)

    Pick me! Pick me! I wanna push the BIG RED BUTTON!
    Check out past werewolf games at the Unofficial GiantITP werewolf archive
    Also wasting too much time playing Evony right now.
    I don't wanna be a llama or a duck or a wabbit.
    I wanna be a POODLE!

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Zar Peter's Avatar

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    Default Re: Playground Squares: WW edition (Now Recruiting)

    I read the rules... I'm confused. Screw the rules, I'm in!
    Avatar by the great Lord Herman. Many, many thanks!
    Empress Catherine by Dr. Bath!
    Castaras made the PiratZarrrrr. Thank you very much!
    Special thanks to Banjo1985 for the Catstronomer.


    Squid Bones: They exist!


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  10. - Top - End - #10
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Trixie's Avatar

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    Default Re: Playground Squares: WW edition (Now Recruiting)

    ^ What he said.

    No need to shout at me, I'll probably feel good enough when this starts. Or not. Anyway.
    Come one, come all! GitP MLP Steam Group is open!
    Current location of the last MLP Thread OP, too.
    Want to ask me something? Use MAIL or message me on Steam!

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    >Click!<
    Amazing Art by Dirtytabs :P
    HW Ava ETsofu

    "Well, the Great and Powerful Trixie can't actually transport you to Equestria... But!
    The Great and Powerful Trixie can beat you over the head until you think that's what happened!"

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Dallas-Dakota's Avatar

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    Default Re: Playground Squares: WW edition (Now Recruiting)

    Quote Originally Posted by Zar Peter View Post
    I read the rules... I'm confused. Screw the rules, I'm in!
    I'd say this, but I'm currently in too many games as is.

    Put me up as auto-lynch replacement?(Even though I think there probably won't be any, because this'l be such a fun game)
    Spoiler: Playgrounders about me
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    Quote Originally Posted by RabbitHoleLost View Post
    DD: .... DEM HIPS.
    Quote Originally Posted by faerwain View Post
    Why do I have the feeling that you actually really grind Smurfs to make your ice cream?
    Quote Originally Posted by banjo1985 View Post
    My wedding underwear has a picture of Dallas Dakota's face on them.
    Ceikatar!

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Reinholdt's Avatar

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    Default Re: Playground Squares: WW edition (Now Recruiting)

    Quote Originally Posted by Thufir View Post
    Can we falsely directly indicate where an answer may be found? By, say, referring to a thread which does not, in fact, exist?
    Purely for teh lulz, you understand.

    Oh, and in.
    As long as the location of the answer is not directly indicated.
    Indicating it's in a specific thread like "Llama Llama Duck thread" might not be direct enough because of the size of the thread itself. I know I'm not going to dig through 30+ pages to find if an answer is there.

    So... it depends, probably on the question itself and how smite happy we're feeling at the time. Feel free to take the gamble and make up threads that don't exist. Might even pay off.

    The rules are a bit confusing at first, but after the first day they should make sense.
    Last edited by Reinholdt; 2010-03-08 at 05:41 PM.
    ~Chibi Rein by Siena
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    -My theme song.
    -Nyahahaha~
    Quote Originally Posted by Supagoof View Post
    Tale as old as thread
    And you find yourself dead
    Reinholdt was the Beast

    [/music]
    Quote Originally Posted by Philistine View Post
    Reinholdt had already told the truth once in that post, and therefore was over his annual quota.

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  13. - Top - End - #13
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Deathslayer7's Avatar

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    Default Re: Playground Squares: WW Edition (Now Recruiting)

    ah finally my WW hiatus comes to a stop. I need a game and have been waiting for this one.

    in.
    Not wearing your seat belt? See you soon!
    Thanks to Kwarkpudding for this excellent avatar.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Tialait View Post
    This is perhaps the most amazing idea I have heard in eons. Thank you kind slayer of Death.

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Uncle Festy's Avatar

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    Default Re: Playground Squares: WW Edition (Now Recruiting)

    IN!
    Quote Of The Week Whenever I Feel Like Updating It (last updated 1/17/12)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phase
    That guy was badass! He was like, "Oh! Oh, you're gonna try to Chuck Norris me, I'll just Chuck Norris you!" Unfortunately, I am the best Chuck Norris since Chuck Norris.
    Which is saying something, considering that Chuck Norris... was Chuck Norris.

  15. - Top - End - #15
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Hyozo's Avatar

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    Default Re: Playground Squares: WW Edition (Now Recruiting)

    I was one of the contestants in the game that inspired this. Count me in.
    Avatar by Vulion. Vectored by me.

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Troll in the Playground
     
    The Bushranger's Avatar

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    Default Re: Playground Squares: WW Edition (Now Recruiting)

    I'm with Zar. Count me in.

    Inner Circle
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    Werewolf Games
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    Games Won: 5
    Ashna and Brendan dolls by Recaiden
    BR by Dr. Bath

    BR's Bag o' Nuts The Russkijs Bushrangers explained
    Homebrew
    Condiments Pianos Tumbleweeds Drow Bloodline Half-Drow Noble Lacy Items

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Orc in the Playground
     
    Fleeing Coward's Avatar

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    Default Re: Playground Squares: WW Edition (Now Recruiting)

    Count me in on this one
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLaughingMan View Post
    He's Fleeing Coward. The man could be a cookie-baking, cancer-stricken orphan kitten and still look like a reasonable suspect.

  18. - Top - End - #18
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Playground Squares: WW Edition (Now Recruiting)

    Is there any chance I could be in? Or not?
    I'm gone for a couple of years!
    I'm off doing service in developing countries in South America
    (Very little chance of internet access) - I'll try to come back afterwards

  19. - Top - End - #19
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Reinholdt's Avatar

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    Default Re: Playground Squares: WW Edition (Now Recruiting)

    Quote Originally Posted by Je dit Viola View Post
    Is there any chance I could be in? Or not?
    Of course. Everyone's invited.
    ~Chibi Rein by Siena
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    -My theme song.
    -Nyahahaha~
    Quote Originally Posted by Supagoof View Post
    Tale as old as thread
    And you find yourself dead
    Reinholdt was the Beast

    [/music]
    Quote Originally Posted by Philistine View Post
    Reinholdt had already told the truth once in that post, and therefore was over his annual quota.

    Spoiler
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  20. - Top - End - #20
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: Playground Squares: WW Edition (Now Recruiting)

    Ooooo! Oooo! Pick me! Pick me! I wanna play AND push the big red button. Can I do both at the same time? I don't care about the green button. That button is boring. Someone else can push that. And I wanna drink coffee from the coffee shop, and have one of Alarra's puddings and point and laugh at people, and do all the other cool things that people playing Playground Squares do all the time! And can I be in the center square? The center square is cool because its in the middle of everything! But then everybody chooses the center square, and you spend the rest of the game locked up behind a letter, so I don't wanna be the center square. Maybe a corner? But not too high, cause I'm afraid of heights sometimes...


    ((yes, sign evnafets up to play. You'll have to forgive L'il Evvie he gets a little excitable sometimes. You should see him when he actually is allowed to DRINK coffee. ))
    Check out past werewolf games at the Unofficial GiantITP werewolf archive
    Also wasting too much time playing Evony right now.
    I don't wanna be a llama or a duck or a wabbit.
    I wanna be a POODLE!

  21. - Top - End - #21
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    OldWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Playground Squares: WW Edition (Now Recruiting)

    I might join, it depends on the answer to this question:

    What subject(s) are the questions going to be on?

  22. - Top - End - #22
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    rakkoon's Avatar

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    Default Re: Playground Squares: WW Edition (Now Recruiting)

    This sounds like too much fun. I want in.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Kneenibble View Post
    What shall I say to thee, rakkoon, thou cruel,
    Ingrateful, savage and inhuman creature,
    That knewst the very bottom of my soul,
    That almost mightst have coined me into gold
    Wouldst thou have practiced on me for thy use?
    Songs about me and my Werewolf statistics

    Thanks to Smuchmuch for for the avvie and banner!

  23. - Top - End - #23
    Orc in the Playground
     
    lostlittlebear's Avatar

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    Default Re: Playground Squares: WW Edition (Now Recruiting)

    In for the lulz!


    WW Games I have won:
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    Day of the Dead 2 - Doctor
    Monster Mash III - Zombie Alpha

    Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!

    Avatar courtesy of the wonderful Strawberries

  24. - Top - End - #24
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Dallas-Dakota's Avatar

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    Default Re: Playground Squares: WW Edition (Now Recruiting)

    Quote Originally Posted by Lex-kat View Post
    1. the Bookworm
    2. the Bushranger
    3. Deathslayer7
    4. Fin
    5. Fleeing Coward
    6. Hyozo
    7. Irbis
    8. Je dit Viola
    9. Thufir
    10. Trixie
    11. Uncle Festy
    12. Zar Peter


    Is Evnafets in? Or does he just wanna push the Red Button?
    Could you put me in as auto-lynch replacement?
    Spoiler: Playgrounders about me
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    Quote Originally Posted by RabbitHoleLost View Post
    DD: .... DEM HIPS.
    Quote Originally Posted by faerwain View Post
    Why do I have the feeling that you actually really grind Smurfs to make your ice cream?
    Quote Originally Posted by banjo1985 View Post
    My wedding underwear has a picture of Dallas Dakota's face on them.
    Ceikatar!

  25. - Top - End - #25
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Supagoof's Avatar

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    Default Re: Playground Squares: WW Edition (Now Recruiting)

    Quote Originally Posted by cd4 View Post
    I might join, it depends on the answer to this question:

    What subject(s) are the questions going to be on?
    The subjects fall into many categories.

    Playgrounders
    Posts
    SMBG
    Free-Form Structured
    Arts and Crafts
    Sillyness
    History of the playground

    Aaaaaand....

    Advanced experimental physics.

    It's all about the playground.
    Legionary of Protection
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lex-kat View Post
    It wasn't that easy. Supagoof's just that good.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow View Post
    This is LLD, which, I shouldn't have to tell you, will not bow to your math because it was DESIGNED to ruin it!
    Quote Originally Posted by Murska View Post
    Summary:
    Supagoof has won the game and withdrawn. He was Epic

  26. - Top - End - #26
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Trixie's Avatar

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    Default Re: Playground Squares: WW Edition (Now Recruiting)

    When it is supposed to start?
    Come one, come all! GitP MLP Steam Group is open!
    Current location of the last MLP Thread OP, too.
    Want to ask me something? Use MAIL or message me on Steam!

    Spoiler
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    >Click!<
    Amazing Art by Dirtytabs :P
    HW Ava ETsofu

    "Well, the Great and Powerful Trixie can't actually transport you to Equestria... But!
    The Great and Powerful Trixie can beat you over the head until you think that's what happened!"

  27. - Top - End - #27
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Deathslayer7's Avatar

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    Default Re: Playground Squares: WW Edition (Now Recruiting)

    question: will the questions be m/c or no? Or do we get the question and have to give an answer.
    Last edited by Deathslayer7; 2010-03-09 at 01:36 PM.
    Not wearing your seat belt? See you soon!
    Thanks to Kwarkpudding for this excellent avatar.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Tialait View Post
    This is perhaps the most amazing idea I have heard in eons. Thank you kind slayer of Death.

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    Pixie in the Playground
     
    Zombieninja's Avatar

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    Default Re: Playground Squares: WW Edition (Now Recruiting)

    I will join if possible.
    Query: why?

    IT'S HERE

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    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Lex-Kat's Avatar

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    Default Re: Playground Squares: WW Edition (Now Recruiting)

    Quote Originally Posted by Trixie View Post
    When it is supposed to start?
    March 22nd
    Quote Originally Posted by Deathslayer7 View Post
    question: will the questions be m/c or no? Or do we get the question and have to give an answer.
    Most of them will be multiple choice, just like in Regular Playground Squares.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zombieninja View Post
    I will join if possible.
    Of course you can join. The more the merrier.
    Last edited by Lex-Kat; 2010-03-09 at 05:25 PM.
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    Nothing to See Here, nothing is recruiting.

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    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    The Bookworm's Avatar

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    Default Re: Playground Squares: WW Edition (Now Recruiting)

    FYI: I am going to Greece until the 22nd with sporadic internet, so please don't AL me if you start early!
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