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2010-10-18, 03:59 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2010
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Giving people things they don't want.
People, I don't want a flame war over this but it's getting out of hand.
When I ask for a way to improve my tracking ability, I don't want to be handed a wizard with the divination school. When I ask for a good aligned class with a death attack, I don't want to be given a wizard with finger of death. When I ask for a good archer, I don't want to be pointed to a ray specialist.
Seriously...it has to stop. When I order a hamburger at a restaurant I don't want to be given a prime steak, I want a hamburger.
When you simply say "Why don't you *insert tier 1 class here* instead?" You are adding nothing to the conversation, and not helping me solve my problem.
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2010-10-18, 04:05 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2010
- Location
- Australia mate
- Gender
Re: Giving people things they don't want.
you should play a Wizard with Fire-Resistance
call me Dragon
I have left this site for a while. I probablt wont be coming back.
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2010-10-18, 04:08 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2010
- Location
- Helsinki, Finland
- Gender
Re: Giving people things they don't want.
Amen.
It is indeed annoying, but it can usually be countered by simply stating in the opening post that you don't want a Wizard, don't want to hear how Monks/Fighters suck or how Half-Minotaurs r da roxorz. Say that you're sticking with whatever race/class you've got, and that you just want help with the feats etc.
A lot of people do it, and it usually works.Last edited by SilverLeaf167; 2010-10-18 at 04:09 AM.
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2010-10-18, 04:10 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2010
- Gender
Re: Giving people things they don't want.
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2010-10-18, 04:13 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2009
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2010-10-18, 04:17 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2010
- Location
- Australia mate
- Gender
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2010-10-18, 04:18 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2010
- Location
- Netherlands
- Gender
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2010-10-18, 04:21 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2010
- Location
- Australia mate
- Gender
Re: Giving people things they don't want.
if people aren't reading the opening post how do they now what you need/want?
call me Dragon
I have left this site for a while. I probablt wont be coming back.
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2010-10-18, 04:21 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2008
- Location
- Freljord
Re: Giving people things they don't want.
Homebrewer's Signature | Avatar by Strawberries
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2010-10-18, 04:23 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2009
Re: Giving people things they don't want.
"Elephant trunks should be used for elephant things only. Nothing else."
Thank you Geomancer for the Death avatar.
My lets plays:
Alien vs Predator: marine chapter - Completed
Singularity - Canceled
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2010-10-18, 04:23 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2010
- Location
- Helsinki, Finland
- Gender
Re: Giving people things they don't want.
Last edited by SilverLeaf167; 2010-10-18 at 04:23 AM.
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2010-10-18, 04:24 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2010
- Location
- Australia mate
- Gender
Re: Giving people things they don't want.
Last edited by DragonOfUndeath; 2010-10-18 at 04:24 AM.
call me Dragon
I have left this site for a while. I probablt wont be coming back.
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2010-10-18, 05:01 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2007
- Location
- Switzerland
- Gender
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2010-10-18, 05:03 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2008
- Location
- Freljord
Re: Giving people things they don't want.
Easy solution, just say what you want but moreso what you don't want in every thread you create asking for such things.
Or twiddle your thumbs and hope those certain people who love Tier 1 too much don't show up, whether they are serious or joking.
Asking your own group rather than stuff on the forums might also help more.Last edited by Morph Bark; 2010-10-18 at 05:04 AM.
Homebrewer's Signature | Avatar by Strawberries
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2010-10-18, 05:10 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2010
Re: Giving people things they don't want.
Amen.
Related pet peeve - asking questions about balance or DMing and getting replies like 'oh, who cares if Frenzied Berserker is balanced, if you have a Tier 1 in the party it won't matter!' (The "anything less than the most optimized possible character is OK' answer.)Last edited by ffone; 2010-10-18 at 05:11 AM.
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2010-10-18, 05:23 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2010
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2010-10-18, 08:59 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2009
- Location
- Maryland
- Gender
Re: Giving people things they don't want.
Title. Make them as descriptive as possible. Many a time, the title doesn't accurately summarize what the player is asking for.
That and the aforementioned specification of what you do and don't want will help quite a bit.
Also be aware that many people are lazy, and as such, you'll frequently get the fastest, easiest, and most broken way to accomplish your goal. This isn't a bad thing, but if you're looking for help with an already existing build, it might not always be helpful.
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2010-10-18, 10:09 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2010
Re: Giving people things they don't want.
Spoiler
"I suggest drinking heavily."
People should read topic posts more. /thread.Last edited by DrWeird; 2010-10-18 at 10:09 AM.
Et tu, Brute?
My home-brewed bootleg Homebrew
I tried to be reasonable and nice; but everybody wouldn't quit trying to turn every spellcaster into a Tier 1.
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2010-10-18, 10:17 AM (ISO 8601)
Re: Giving people things they don't want.
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2010-10-18, 11:07 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2009
- Location
- In Constant Disapproval
- Gender
Re: Giving people things they don't want.
I actually relate to this opinion/pain very well. I've fully given up on asking for build advice on the giant. I rarely get good answers, 90% of the people who suggest something didn't read the original post. Even if you put what you do not want in size 7 red impact font they ignore it and suggest exactly what you don't want anyway.
Cases in point:
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=131888
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=154558
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=153599
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=166572
Very very rarely it ends up being an unbearable sidetrack, but still rather fun.Last edited by Ormagoden; 2010-10-18 at 11:09 AM.
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2010-10-18, 11:21 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2009
- Location
- In the T.A.R.D.I.S.
- Gender
Re: Giving people things they don't want.
AMEN! If I say I want to play a monk, don't tell me I should be playing an unarmed swordsage (or whatever they're called). If I want to play a blaster wizard, don't tell me I should be playing a control wizard. You know?
(Although I disagree on the prime steak thing. I only order hamburgers when I can't afford the steak. )Originally Posted by The Doctor
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2010-10-18, 11:27 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2007
- Location
- Chicago, IL
- Gender
Re: Giving people things they don't want.
To be somewhat serious:
The reason you get alternate suggestions is that the respondant believes he has found what you want via a different route.
For example, when you ask for an "archery focused ranger using blah-blah-blaah" people are going to look at that and see "I want a character that does this." Often (in 3.5) instead of making a convoluted Feat Chain work it is far easier to make some flavor of CoDzilla or Wizard which does what the quoted build seems to want.
The best solution to this is to explain why you want a certain build. If you say "I'd like a character that does X, but he can't be a Caster because it doesn't fit the backstory" then only idiots will suggest a Caster.
People aren't always being jerks - sometimes they're trying to answer what they think is your question because the question wasn't asked with specific clarity.Last edited by Oracle_Hunter; 2010-10-18 at 11:28 AM.
Lead Designer for Oracle Hunter GamesToday a Blog, Tomorrow a Business!
~ Awesome Avatar by the phantastic Phase ~Spoiler
Elflad
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2010-10-18, 12:50 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2009
Re: Giving people things they don't want.
Yes, people might just assume you don't know about some mechanically superior option that fits the concept being described if you don't specify it. Many people here also subscribe to the idea that classes are abstractions so you'll have to explain why you want to limit yourself to a single class or a concept when asking for advice.
Of course some people just don't pay attention and there is nothing you can do about that except ignore them (flying into rage won't make them go away) but most of the time it's probably lack of information and/or a clash of play-style philosophies that yields advice you consider useless.Last edited by Ormur; 2010-10-18 at 12:51 PM.
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2010-10-18, 12:53 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2009
- Location
- Maryland
- Gender
Re: Giving people things they don't want.
Honestly, I'd be satisfied with never seeing pun-pun given as an answer again.
Even if it's a high-optimization question, that's almost invariably an unhelpful post.
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2010-10-18, 01:02 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2007
- Location
- Finland
- Gender
Re: Giving people things they don't want.
It's called spam; Monty Python has a sketch on that Just say "No spam" and you'll get a lot of it!
Honestly, I recall never advising someone to play a Wizard if they state they have a class preference. At most I might mention a class that's exactly the same fluff-wise with a slightly different set of abilities (e.g. Monk vs. Unarmed Swordsage).
If someone comes on the forums and asks how to maximize your X by level Y, well, the answer is usually a Wizard since that's the easiest (and sometimes the only) way. But honestly, how often is someone who asked for advice on how to build character X or class X told to play Wizard instead? 'cause I don't remember many instances of that happening.Last edited by Eldariel; 2010-10-18 at 01:02 PM.
Campaign Journal: Uncovering the Lost World - A Player's Diary in Low-Magic D&D (Latest Update: 8.3.2014)
Being Bane: A Guide to Barbarians Cracking Small Men - Ever Been Angry?! Then this is for you!
SRD Averages - An aggregation of all the key stats of all the monster entries on SRD arranged by CR.
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2010-10-18, 01:05 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2007
- Gender
Re: Giving people things they don't want.
Which is exactly the point.
Even if you don't specify I don't want XYZ, which could get ignored anyway, it's often clear that the OP wants something within a certain concept that does not include insert-overused-build-here.
Also, gotta say ninjas are still cooler than swordsages, and I shall always get ninja'd rather than swordsaged regardless of variations in splatbook power levels.Last edited by ericgrau; 2010-10-18 at 01:10 PM.
So you never have to interrupt a game to look up a rule again:
My 3.5e Rules Cheat Sheets: Normal, With Consolidated Skill System
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2010-10-18, 01:06 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2007
- Location
- Finland
- Gender
Re: Giving people things they don't want.
Last edited by Eldariel; 2010-10-18 at 01:07 PM.
Campaign Journal: Uncovering the Lost World - A Player's Diary in Low-Magic D&D (Latest Update: 8.3.2014)
Being Bane: A Guide to Barbarians Cracking Small Men - Ever Been Angry?! Then this is for you!
SRD Averages - An aggregation of all the key stats of all the monster entries on SRD arranged by CR.
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2010-10-18, 01:12 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2010
- Location
- Finland
Re: Giving people things they don't want.
Quotes:Praise for avatar may be directed to Derjuin.Spoiler
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2010-10-18, 01:14 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2009
Re: Giving people things they don't want.
"Elephant trunks should be used for elephant things only. Nothing else."
Thank you Geomancer for the Death avatar.
My lets plays:
Alien vs Predator: marine chapter - Completed
Singularity - Canceled
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2010-10-18, 01:16 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2009
- Location
- Maryland
- Gender
Re: Giving people things they don't want.