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    Orc in the Playground
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    Default [GURPS 4e] Banestorm mock combats (part II)

    I'm starting a new thread for fear of being called a necromancer, as the original thread was last used in December.

    Like last time, this is a separate thread for the players in my Banestorm game (see sig). The purpose is to give players a feel for how combat works before their actual PCs are on the line for real.

    Once again, although I expect there will be some Q&A here, the actual combats should be "IC", so I'm creating this thread in the Ongoing Games (In-Character) section. My assumption is that this is indeed fine, as the mods did not move the thread last time.

    ---

    EDIT: decided might as well add links to the original three MCs here too
    EDIT: Mock Combat 1 finished in 15 seconds.
    EDIT: Mock Combat 2 finished in 3 seconds!
    EDIT: Mock Combat 3 finished in 8 seconds.

    ---

    EDIT: Mock Combat 4 finished in 4 seconds!
    EDIT: Mock Combat 5 finished in 14 seconds.

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------

    The PC going in this time, will be yufra's centaur, Muelennah.

    OK yufra, let me know your chosen load-out before we begin. You may want to start with a full pack just to get used to fighting while encumbered. Or you may want to choose whatever seems most optimal. Doesn't matter to me, but you'll prob want to decide what you start with in-hand either way.
    Last edited by Unwitting Pawn; 2010-03-22 at 08:38 AM. Reason: Mock Combats 5 ends
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    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: [GURPS 4e] Banestorm mock combats (part II)

    I will start with the full-pack (light encumbrance by my calculation), spear held but not readied and shield on the back.

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    Default Re: [GURPS 4e] Banestorm mock combats (part II)

    Mock Combat 4

    As previously, the thick black border on the map is stone wall, and should be considered impassible. Muelennah has all his gear stowed and is carrying his spear in an un-ready state. His opponent is a human thug, apparently unarmoured, wielding a sword in two hands and certainly looking ready to use it.

    ---

    Map of starting positions.

    Spoiler
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    As a centaur fills 2 hexes on a map, I've represented this by putting his name in the rear hex and extending the facing arrow. Hope that makes visual sense.

    ---

    Muelennah will go first.
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    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: [GURPS 4e] Banestorm mock combats (part II)

    Muelennah grips his spear and lowers its point towards the man. "Who are you that menaces me without reason? Are you an agent from Megalos?!"

    Spoiler
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    Ready maneuver, hold ground.
    EDIT: Grip is two-handed, reach 2, spear skill.
    Last edited by yufra; 2010-03-12 at 11:30 AM. Reason: adding grip

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    Default Re: [GURPS 4e] Banestorm mock combats (part II)

    Sword Thug's first turn

    "No, horse-man," the thug replies. He steps forward, never taking his eyes off Muelennah as he does so.

    Spoiler
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    Evaluate manoeuvre, step forward-left

    ---

    Map updated.

    ---
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    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: [GURPS 4e] Banestorm mock combats (part II)

    Muelennah's eyes narrow and he growls "You menace AND insult me... defend yourself!" He steps forward and jabs his spear toward the thug.

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    Step NE, Attack thug's right arm (-2).
    Spear (13-2, effective 11): (3d6)[10]
    Damage: (1d6+5)[9]

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    Default Re: [GURPS 4e] Banestorm mock combats (part II)

    Muelennah's second turn

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    I'm assuming that you wanted to keep facing North, but it's probably best to say.


    As Muelennah steps forward-right and thrusts at the thug, his opponent reacts by jumping backwards out of range of the spear.


    Spoiler
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    Dodge, with Retreat (+3 to dodge, move 1 hex back, directly away from attacker)
    *clatter*
    roll of 10, a success

    ---

    Sword Thug's second turn

    After retreating from the attack, the thug steps forward again. He continues to watch Muelennah.

    Spoiler
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    Evaluate manoeuvre, step S, facing S

    ---

    Map updated.

    ---
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    Default Re: [GURPS 4e] Banestorm mock combats (part II)

    Muelennah whips the butt of the spear around at the thug and steps back, holding his spear like a staff.

    Spoiler
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    Switch to staff skill and attack thug's torso.
    Staff (11): (3d6)[16]
    Damage: [roll]3d6 + 2[/roll]
    Step SW, Face N.

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    Default Re: [GURPS 4e] Banestorm mock combats (part II)

    Muelennah's third turn

    Muelennah's swing misses the thug by several inches.

    Sword Thug's third turn

    The moment the butt of the spear goes wide, the thug rushes forward as if to run Muelennah through with his sword, but instead twists and brings the long blade slashing round at the centaur.

    Spoiler
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    Move directly forward two hexes, turn to face SW
    All-out Attack (Determined), Deceptive Attack (+2 for Evaluate, +4 for AoA Determined, -4 for Deceptive Attack)
    *clatter*
    attack roll of 11, a success
    *clatter*
    swing to torso, damage roll of 6

    Note: Muelennah's active defence will be at -2 due to Deceptive Attack

    ---

    Map updated.

    ---
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    Default Re: [GURPS 4e] Banestorm mock combats (part II)

    Muelennah jumps to the side and tries to bring the spear haft around to parry.

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    Retreating (SW, face NE) parry (10+1-2, effective 9): (3d6)[12]
    DR (torso): 4

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    Default Re: [GURPS 4e] Banestorm mock combats (part II)

    The centaur's retreat isn't fast enough, and the thug's sword slams into his shoulder. The mail shirt takes the worst of the blow, but the blade bites through.

    Spoiler
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    6 dmg - 4 DR, means 2 points cutting get through, x1.5 = 3 points wound.
    Muelennah will be at -3 due to shock on his next turn only (p.B419).

    ---

    Updated map again for visual clarity.

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    Default Re: [GURPS 4e] Banestorm mock combats (part II)

    Muelennah doesn't even blink as the sword draws blood, but notices a hole in the thug's defenses as the sword completes its swing and launches another arcing attack with the spear haft.

    Spoiler
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    Shock is ignored due to the High Pain Threshold advantage.

    Attack on thug right arm (-2), telegraphic (+4).
    Staff (11-2+4, effective 13): (3d6)[11]
    Damage: (3d6+2)[14]

    Step N, face SE.

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    Default Re: [GURPS 4e] Banestorm mock combats (part II)

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    Quote Originally Posted by yufra View Post
    Shock is ignored due to the High Pain Threshold advantage.
    Ah yes, I'd forgotten about that. A useful advantage.


    Muelennah's fourth turn

    The shaft of Muelennah's spear impacts against the thug's right arm with an almighty crack that signals the bone is almost certainly broken badly. The sword clatters to the floor as the thug collapses in pain.

    Spoiler
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    14 damage exceeds the minimum required to cripple the thug's arm, so the excess is lost. However, as it exceeds by at least double, the thug will be permanently crippled.

    This is also a Major Wound, which requires a HT roll
    *clatter*
    12, which is a failure - the thug is stunned and falls prone


    I'm going to call the fight a win for the centaur at this point, as his victory is assured.
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    Default Re: [GURPS 4e] Banestorm mock combats (part II)

    Muelennah steps back, but keeps his spear leveled at the thug. "Do you retract your insult and yield?"

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    Thanks UP! No need to respond to the PC's question, I just thought I would keep IC. I do have a few questions for you, though.

    First, are the only options in this game for deceptive/telegraphic attacks the +/-4 to skill translating to +/-2 to defense?

    The second question is more RP: for Code of Honor (Chivalry) a battle must be fair for a foe who is also noble and chivalrous. I took a "chivalrous until proven otherwise" approach in the battle (disabling instead of going for a kill), and wanted to get feedback on this approach.

    For the next mock battle I would like to start with the shield and spear, and without the backpack (no encumbrance). I will ask take your lead on whether to disable the opponent as above, or be more aggressive.

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    Orc in the Playground
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    Default Re: [GURPS 4e] Banestorm mock combats (part II)

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    Quote Originally Posted by yufra View Post
    First, are the only options in this game for deceptive/telegraphic attacks the +/-4 to skill translating to +/-2 to defense?
    Telegraphic Attack is always fixed at +4 to hit/+2 to defend, as per Martial Arts. That stands.
    Deceptive Attack is not set at -4 to hit/-2 to defend. Time is less of a factor over PbP, so players are free to choose whatever within the limits of the rules on p.B369-370. It's self-regulating

    Quote Originally Posted by yufra View Post
    The second question is more RP: for Code of Honor (Chivalry) a battle must be fair for a foe who is also noble and chivalrous. I took a "chivalrous until proven otherwise" approach in the battle (disabling instead of going for a kill), and wanted to get feedback on this approach.

    For the next mock battle I would like to start with the shield and spear, and without the backpack (no encumbrance). I will ask take your lead on whether to disable the opponent as above, or be more aggressive.
    I think playing it chivalrously was certainly appropriate from an RP perspective. Also, a well-equipped centaur against a poorly-equipped human may not be that fair a fight, so not unreasonable to give the potential enemy benefit of the doubt. However, once the opponent is clearly trying to seriously injure you, that kinda reduces the obligation to play nice a little.

    That said, for the purposes of a pure combat test, you could be more aggressive than you would normally be to a stranger, if you want. Actually, prob best if you do, because I'm gonna make this next fight a tougher challenge.

    ---

    Mock Combat 5

    As previously, the thick black border on the map is stone wall, and should be considered impassible. This time, Muelennah is equipped with both his medium shield and spear at the ready, and does not have his backpack. There are two opponents. The first thug is wielding a two-handed sword, and wearing leather armour on his torso and limbs. The second has an axe in his right hand, a shield on his left, and appears to be wearing similar armour to the first.

    ---

    Map of starting positions.

    ---

    Muelennah gets to go first. Make the most of it.
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    Default Re: [GURPS 4e] Banestorm mock combats (part II)

    Muelennah approaches cautiously and calls out to his attackers: "I warn you, if you both attack at once I will yield no quarter to you."

    Spoiler
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    After much debate I opted for a cautious start. Let's see how it goes...

    AoD (double)
    Step NW, face N.

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    Default Re: [GURPS 4e] Banestorm mock combats (part II)

    (1st) Sword Thug's first turn

    "Don't worry," says the first thug as he sidesteps forward-right while sizing up the centaur.

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    Evaluate manoeuvre, step SW facing S

    ---

    (2nd) Axe Thug's first turn

    "This won't hurt a bit," adds the second thug, as he matches step with the first.

    Spoiler
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    Evaluate manoeuvre, step SW facing S

    ---

    Map updated.

    ---
    Last edited by Unwitting Pawn; 2010-03-14 at 05:56 AM.
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    Default Re: [GURPS 4e] Banestorm mock combats (part II)

    @UP
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    Can I get your thoughts on the legality of the following move?

    I would like to take a Move and Attack, Shield Rush (B372) against the Axe Thug, moving N-N-NE shield rush. If the shield rush is successful and the thug lies prone I will then go SE (possibly trampling the thug?)-SE-S-S-SW to put some distance between us.
    If the shield rush is dodged, I believe I am committed to going NE-NE past the thug, and I will follow that with a SE-S-SW.

    I am a little unclear as to what happens if the thug blocks or parries the shield rush. Presumably I can still move away? Is there still knockback if the attack is blocked or parried?

    It is a complicated move, but I think it is my best bet for dealing with two foes.

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    Default Re: [GURPS 4e] Banestorm mock combats (part II)

    OOC answer:
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    It looks like you could do what you are asking, as the order of hexes count as "forward" movement the whole time. And, yes you would also trample him automatically under those circumstances. This would all be fine, unless the thug Dodged successfully, IMO. If the thug Dodges, then you won't have enough room to guarantee that you'll be able to turn/stop safely. The second NE hex "past" the thug, is a partial one against a solid wall and also right near the corner. So, even if you managed to stop yourself from slamming headlong into the wall, by electing to turn right into the corner at high speed you would risk another collision of either your head on the east wall or your left flank against the north wall, or possibly both.

    That comes down to GM interpretation of course, but partial hexes against the wall would seem to carry that risk IMO. So, I would call for roll(s) against DX-2 to avoid each wall (movement paragraph of Move and Attack, p.B366).

    So, if it worked, then I agree that would be an excellent way to even up the fight. But it does carry a certain risk of catastrophe.

    Parrying a slam or shield-rush would be risky for the thug, as your mass counts as weapon heavy enough to have a good chance of breaking his axe on a successful Parry (see Parrying Heavy Weapons p.B376). Blocking with his shield wouldn't run this risk though, so would be safer by comparison.

    As you're considering a slam, I'll also make you aware of some options from Martial Arts (p.98) for All-out Attack. You are allowed to travel up to your full move if slamming! Or, for half move as normal, you could AoA (Double) and hit one thug en-route to slamming the other! Cool, eh? Well, risky, of course. But still cool.
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    Default Re: [GURPS 4e] Banestorm mock combats (part II)

    More OOC strategery:
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    Ouch, two DX-2 rolls are a bit more than I think Muelennah can handle. What kind of horribleness occurs if I fail the DX-2 rolls from the first proposed maneuver? I would assume collision damage with the wall, but would I also have to stop movement or would it be assumed to be ricocheting off the walls like a pinball? Either way, let us consult his Overconfidence... *clatter* oh goodness, failure by 4. Well if my following question is answered in the negative then we'll give that shield rush a shot. And I did think about the AoA (double), but leaving myself open to two AoAs is downright scary.

    What if Muelennah's shield rush goes N-N-N-face NE-SE shield rush? The extreme pivot would probably take the velocity down to zero, and require a DX roll itself. The pivot is interesting because my understanding of B392 is that I would get a "free" slam on the Sword Thug at velocity 3, albeit with the animal rear torso instead of the shield. Then I could continue at the Axe Thug with the shield rush at velocity 1 (I think). What are your thoughts on this?

    EDIT: Let me be more explicit about what I mean by "free" slam. I think that not only does that slam not count towards my attack in the move and attack maneuver, but that it automatically hits (no roll on Brawling) too. It sounds too good to be true... now shatter my dreams UP!
    Last edited by yufra; 2010-03-14 at 10:20 PM.

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    Default Re: [GURPS 4e] Banestorm mock combats (part II)

    More OOC answers:
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    Quote Originally Posted by yufra View Post
    Ouch, two DX-2 rolls are a bit more than I think Muelennah can handle. What kind of horribleness occurs if I fail the DX-2 rolls from the first proposed maneuver? I would assume collision damage with the wall, but would I also have to stop movement or would it be assumed to be ricocheting off the walls like a pinball? Either way, let us consult his Overconfidence... *clatter* oh goodness, failure by 4. Well if my following question is answered in the negative then we'll give that shield rush a shot. And I did think about the AoA (double), but leaving myself open to two AoAs is downright scary.
    Well, of course you could roll DX-2 just once, to stop short of slamming the North wall rather than turn right, but that would end your movement and leave your rear vulnerable. Either way, if you fail the first DX-2 roll, then slamming the North wall would kind of end you movement, I'd say. There could be a risk of falling down. Ditto with the second DX-2 roll, but you'd be in the corner.

    Quote Originally Posted by yufra View Post
    What if Muelennah's shield rush goes N-N-N-face NE-SE shield rush? The extreme pivot would probably take the velocity down to zero, and require a DX roll itself. The pivot is interesting because my understanding of B392 is that I would get a "free" slam on the Sword Thug at velocity 3, albeit with the animal rear torso instead of the shield. Then I could continue at the Axe Thug with the shield rush at velocity 1 (I think). What are your thoughts on this?
    For this, I wouldn't require a DX roll, as there is a bit more room. You would get a "free" slam on the first thug, but as you are not moving forwards into him directly at full speed, but stopping to pivot and sideswiping him in the process, I would count the velocity as 1 in that instance*. You could continue turning to shield-rush the second thug, again at velocity 1.

    *For comparison, if the area was larger and you ran N,N,N, then forward-sidestepped NW, I would consider that a sideswipe at velocity 4.

    Quote Originally Posted by yufra View Post
    EDIT: Let me be more explicit about what I mean by "free" slam. I think that not only does that slam not count towards my attack in the move and attack maneuver, but that it automatically hits (no roll on Brawling) too. It sounds too good to be true... now shatter my dreams UP!
    This is correct in so far as you are big enough that you do not have to make an attack roll "to hit". You can enter his hex and slam as an almost accidental side-effect, and if he doesn't get out of your way that is his own problem. However, it is not "automatic" in the sense that he will still get a defence roll to try and protect himself.

    EDIT: Hopefully I've answered your questions adequately, yufra. I think it's time to make your decision now
    Last edited by Unwitting Pawn; 2010-03-15 at 08:10 AM.
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    Default Re: [GURPS 4e] Banestorm mock combats (part II)

    Muelennah lets out a loud cry and charges forward, throwing his body toward the sword wielding thug as he approaches.

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    Thanks UP for all the help. I am going with the second move, and figure that splitting it into multiple parts will be required. Therefore this is the initial body slam and shield rush, and I will edit if the body slam results in the PC being knocked down.

    Move and attack, N-N-N-face NE, body slamming sword thug.
    Velocity: 1
    Damage: (1d6-3)[0]

    Shield rush SE
    Velocity: 1
    Shield (12): (3d6)[14]
    Damage: (1d6-1)[3]

    The shield rush damage has the +2 bonus to damage from the shield's DB. *crosses his fingers*

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    Default Re: [GURPS 4e] Banestorm mock combats (part II)

    Muelennah's second turn

    As the centuar swings his weight around at the thug with the sword, the man reacts by quickly stepping back into the safety of the corner.

    Spoiler
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    Retreating Dodge (+3, move NW, face SE)
    *clatter*
    11, a success

    As I've just responded in the OOC thread, although the damage roll was too low to wound, I think it important that characters should still try to defend themselves normally as they wouldn't know that.


    Muelennah then keeps going in an attempt to smash into the second thug with his shield, but the centaur's momentum isn't enough. The man is able to turn in time and easily deflect the impact with his own shield.

    Spoiler
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    As the attack roll failed, no roll by the axe thug was necessary, of course. However, considering the circumstances and the fact that your move left you sharing the man's hex, I felt the fluff above to be suitable description.


    ---

    EDIT:
    Spoiler
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    Quote Originally Posted by yufra View Post
    Sorry if I had not made it clear, but I wasn't finished with the move in the Move and Attack maneuver. That is why I wrote "this is the initial body slam and shield rush." My hope was to continue SE-SE-face S-end of turn face SW and put a bit of distance to avoid exactly what the Sword Thug did. Do you want to continue with the mock combat as written, or as I intended? I am truly fine either way... the latter being preferable, but hey this is mock combat in a game.
    Oops! Sorry for the misunderstanding. It wasn't clear to me from what you had written. You said "splitting it into multiple parts", but then it appeared like you had posted everything anyway.

    I think that like the damage roll, this might be best posted up front all at once as a conditional instruction. For example, something like "If the shield bash misses, I will keep moving X, then Y. If it succeeds, then I will instead do Z."

    I've deleted the thug's turn in this instance.

    ---
    Last edited by Unwitting Pawn; 2010-03-15 at 01:36 PM. Reason: do-over
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    Default Re: [GURPS 4e] Banestorm mock combats (part II)

    Muelennah moves a few yards past the axe thug and turns perpendicular to the bandits.

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    Sorry for the misunderstanding UP. I will keep all of the turns actions in a single post from now on, I promise!

    Move SE-SE-S-face SW. Now for the delayed beat down.

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    Default Re: [GURPS 4e] Banestorm mock combats (part II)

    (1st) Sword Thug's second turn

    Rushing out from the corner, the thug delivers a hurried swing that misses the centaur's spear hand, before backing off again as...

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    Move and Attack (skill cap 9), forwardx3, swing at extremity (-4), Evaluate bonus (+1), then step backwards (2 move)
    *clatter*
    attack roll of 11, a miss

    ---

    (2nd) Axe Thug's second turn

    ...the man with the axe and shield steps into the space just vacated, his weapons at the ready.

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    another Evaluate manoeuvre, step S facing SE

    ---

    Map updated.

    ---
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    Default Re: [GURPS 4e] Banestorm mock combats (part II)

    Muelennah rushes along the south side of the bandits, making a wild jab toward the sword thug.

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    Move and Attack maneuver: SW-NW-NW-attack spear-SW-SE-face N
    Spear (13-4, effective 9): (3d6)[9]
    Damage: (1d6+4)[7]

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    Default Re: [GURPS 4e] Banestorm mock combats (part II)

    Muelennah's third turn

    The centaur's passing thrust is knocked away by the thug's axe.

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    Parry (retreating would've give better defensive odds of course, but would mean sacrificing his position, so he stood his ground)
    *clatter*
    an 8, phew!

    ---

    (1st) Sword Thug's third turn

    With an aggressive movement, the first thug looks to bring his sword whirling round, but slips on a loose stone and ends up on his back.

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    All-out Attack (Double) manoeuvre
    *clatter*
    an 18 - oh dear!
    *clatter*
    the thug falls down

    ---

    (2nd) Axe Thug's third turn

    Stepping between Muelennah and his teammate, the second thug swings at the centaur.

    Spoiler
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    step SW, facing S, Attack manoeuvre (+2 bonus for Evaluates)
    *clatter*
    roll of 14, a success
    *clatter*
    5 points of cutting damage if it hits

    ---

    Map updated.

    ---
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    GURPS 4e Banestorm fantasy game: recruitment thread | OOC thread | IC thread | mock combat threads I & II
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  28. - Top - End - #28
    Dwarf in the Playground
    Join Date
    Feb 2010

    Default Re: [GURPS 4e] Banestorm mock combats (part II)

    Muelennah leaps backwards, trying to dodge the axe as it whistles towards him.

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    Dodge (11): (3d6)[12]
    Last edited by yufra; 2010-03-16 at 10:51 AM. Reason: Retreat is illegal!

  29. - Top - End - #29
    Orc in the Playground
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [GURPS 4e] Banestorm mock combats (part II)

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    Darn it! Not sure how I overlooked that. I blame having to oversee multiple threads at once. Yes that must be it.

    Anyway, looking at the numbers, it appears that w/o being able to Retreat, any defence you had chosen would've failed on that roll of 12. Add to this the fact that Retreat affects your position as well. So I say that we count the hit and redo from there.

    EDIT: I have deleted my earlier post to fit this. Could you do the same?


    Muelennah's defence fails and the axe cuts into the mail. The shirt absorbs most of the blow, but there is a shallow cut along with what may turn out to be some serious bruising.


    Spoiler
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    5 damage - 4 DR = 1 point wound x 1.5 cutting = 1 HP lost
    no Shock due to HPT advantage

    ---
    Last edited by Unwitting Pawn; 2010-03-16 at 05:40 AM. Reason: deletion
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    GURPS 4e Banestorm fantasy game: recruitment thread | OOC thread | IC thread | mock combat threads I & II
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  30. - Top - End - #30
    Dwarf in the Playground
    Join Date
    Feb 2010

    Default Re: [GURPS 4e] Banestorm mock combats (part II)

    @UP
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    Ok, I edited my defense post to remove the retreat and deleted my attack. I am still thinking about a similar move, where I shield rush the standing axe thug and trample the prone bandit. When I read B404 I think that the trample will likely count as an attack, and thus the shield rush and the trample couldn't take place in the same turn without AoA (double). Is that correct? Or could I take the half ST trample damage as a passive overrun whenever I move through a hex with a prone or SM-2 person instead of rolling an attack?

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