Keychain of Creation 3: Not-a-Keyblade Understanding & Falafel-is-Awesome Prana Combo

[Green Bean]

Only other people's rules. "Do as I say, not as I do."

Nonsense; he's the embodiment of mindless antagonism. He supports cheating and betrayal in all its forms because that's his nature, even if it's against him. Especially if it's against him.

[Xelloss]

Eh. I'll still argue that if you do that, you're utterly missing the spirit of the Acts of Villainy, and the Yozis will pay you back for it if you do so.

Don't think the terminology matter. The same book use "Blasphemy" as a keyword that means more or less "make more works for the pattern spider so they complain to the celestial bureaucracy"

[kamikasei]

Nonsense; he's the embodiment of mindless antagonism. He supports cheating and betrayal in all its forms because that's his nature, even if it's against him. Especially if it's against him.

So he "rewards" you.

"Well done! You cheated Me! Have a cake!"
"That's good!"
"The cake is made of poison."
"That's bad!"
"But it has sprinkles!"
"That's good!"
"The sprinkles contain potassium benzoate."
"..."
"That's bad."

[Revlid]

Best Enemy Recognition (if he put work into developing a rivalry towards either Misho or Ten first- I mean, he's just kidnapped their teammate [at the very least, more if Misho's her Solar Mate, which is my theory] and is marching her up the aisle)

Eh, I like Infernal!Misho better.

Is there any way for a Solar to become a Green Sun Prince, rather than an Akuma? Without dying and having their Exaltation corrupted, of course. Although given the curious nature of Misho's memories, that might not make a difference...

[Gez]

I dunno about you, but the way I read "preferably" allows room for the non-preferable scenario to happen and be legitimate anyway. A preference is not a requirement.

[horngeek]

Eh, I like Infernal!Misho better.

Is there any way for a Solar to become a Green Sun Prince, rather than an Akuma? Without dying and having their Exaltation corrupted, of course. Although given the curious nature of Misho's memories, that might not make a difference...

Hmmm... not sure. I don't think so.

Well, it's Infernal!Misho, or just an Infernal.

Either way, seem like an interesting scene to draw.

[The_Snark]

In fact, you don't have to be a villain to do those "acts of villainy".

I'm inclined to agree with Horngeek here. Acts of Villainy aren't set-in-stone rules of Exaltation, they're an appeal to a Yozi, who—subconsciously or consciously—grants you a reprieve. There are no loopholes to exploit; if you don't appeal to the Yozi in question, you don't get anything. If you place an enemy in a complex deathtrap out of mercy rather than arrogance, Cecelyne isn't going to cut you any slack; you have to actually intend to give them a slow, lingering death.

That doesn't mean that a heroic Infernal can't find ways to benefit from them, because the Yozis aren't universally obsessed with evil. Secretly hoping that an enemy will escape your deathtrap might not resonate with Cecelyne, but you could score points with Szoreny if the circumstances are right. Informing people what you're going to steal in advance doesn't resonate with Malfeas, who wants VIOLENCE... but a brutal vigilante could kill criminals in a manner that leads their allies to track him down, and this is sort of heroic, in a 90s anti-hero sort of way. There's nothing inherently evil about bombastic monologues, nor about obsessing over your arch-nemesis.

You're probably out of luck with the Ebon Dragon, though. He likes depravity, and any marriage that involves non-twisted, reciprocal love is probably not getting his stamp of approval. And Adorjan... well, yeah.

[Xelloss]

You're probably out of luck with the Ebon Dragon, though. He likes depravity, and any marriage that involves non-twisted, reciprocal love is probably not getting his stamp of approval.

Unless you're dealing with a rigid moral code that prevent the marriage, like social differences or sexual affinity. You want to be a good-doer Fiend ? Find some institutionalized evil organization !

Edit : other interesting and misleading terminology : "Creature of Darkness" means "Not liked by the Unconquered Sun"

[Thanqol]

In my online game, a group of PCs walked in on the group Infernal in a bridal dress, watching her groom try to claw his way out of an acid pit while she told him how the Wyld was ultimately pointless.

"It's not what it looks like!"

[The Rose Dragon]

Edit : other interesting and misleading terminology : "Creature of Darkness" means "Not liked by the Unconquered Sun"

Since the Unconquered Sun is the embodiment of light and holiness, anything he doesn't like is by definition a creature of darkness.

[Drascin]

Since the Unconquered Sun is the embodiment of light and holiness, anything he doesn't like is by definition a creature of darkness.

Indeed. But since the Unconquered Sun is also a ****, that doesn't necessarily mean creatures of Darkness are "evil", which is something many new players have a problem getting at first .

[The Rose Dragon]

Indeed. But since the Unconquered Sun is also a ****, that doesn't necessarily mean creatures of Darkness are "evil", which is something many new players have a problem getting at first .

E.g. Five Days Darkness. One of the nicest guys you'll ever meet (except for the irrational hatred of the Dragon-blooded), but he is a creature of darkness simply because he is the shadow of the Unconquered Sun and therefore cannot abide the light of the sun.

[spectralphoenix]

E.g. Five Days Darkness. One of the nicest guys you'll ever meet (except for the irrational hatred of the Dragon-blooded), but he is a creature of darkness simply because he is the shadow of the Unconquered Sun and therefore cannot abide the light of the sun.

His inclusion is more of a loophole than anything else though, everyone else on the list is a direct enemy of Creation (the Neverborn and their servants, the Yozis and their servants, or the unshaped Fair Folk.) Sure, an Infernal or Abyssal may not be that bad of a person once you get to know them, but they both agreed to help the former Primordials destroy or pervert Creation, and they're forced to go through with it to some degree.

[Green Bean]

I'm inclined to agree with Horngeek here. Acts of Villainy aren't set-in-stone rules of Exaltation, they're an appeal to a Yozi, who—subconsciously or consciously—grants you a reprieve. There are no loopholes to exploit; if you don't appeal to the Yozi in question, you don't get anything. If you place an enemy in a complex deathtrap out of mercy rather than arrogance, Cecelyne isn't going to cut you any slack; you have to actually intend to give them a slow, lingering death.

That doesn't mean that a heroic Infernal can't find ways to benefit from them, because the Yozis aren't universally obsessed with evil. Secretly hoping that an enemy will escape your deathtrap might not resonate with Cecelyne, but you could score points with Szoreny if the circumstances are right. Informing people what you're going to steal in advance doesn't resonate with Malfeas, who wants VIOLENCE... but a brutal vigilante could kill criminals in a manner that leads their allies to track him down, and this is sort of heroic, in a 90s anti-hero sort of way. There's nothing inherently evil about bombastic monologues, nor about obsessing over your arch-nemesis.

You're probably out of luck with the Ebon Dragon, though. He likes depravity, and any marriage that involves non-twisted, reciprocal love is probably not getting his stamp of approval. And Adorjan... well, yeah.

The thing is, Yozi are their concepts first, and Yozi second. The same way Adorjan Charms will aid you in eroding someone's Intimacy towards Adorjan, or Cecelyne Charms will help you build a facist state devoted to keeping the Yozi sealed, you can appeal to a Yozi while simultaneously screwing them over. I mean, the best way to use Exquisite Bride Obsession would be to kidnap the Ebon Dragon's bride and marry her first.

[Tackyhillbillu]

E.g. Five Days Darkness. One of the nicest guys you'll ever meet (except for the irrational hatred of the Dragon-blooded), but he is a creature of darkness simply because he is the shadow of the Unconquered Sun and therefore cannot abide the light of the sun.

Is Five Days Darkness hatred irrational? FDD likes the Solars. They remind him of his brother/thing he is the Shadow of, the UCS. The Dragonblooded killed them all. Also, they expect him to listen to the Immaculate Order, which is why it makes sense that he went out and learned the Styles of the Immaculate Order.

Or wait, is it tied up to his Hatred of the Elemental Courts, instead? I don't remember.

[The Rose Dragon]

Is Five Days Darkness hatred irrational? FDD likes the Solars. They remind him of his brother/thing he is the Shadow of, the UCS. The Dragonblooded killed them all. Also, they expect him to listen to the Immaculate Order, which is why it makes sense that he went out and learned the Styles of the Immaculate Order.

Or wait, is it tied up to his Hatred of the Elemental Courts, instead? I don't remember.

He doesn't hate the Immaculate Philosophy, though. He hates the Dragon-blooded. All of them. Even the outcastes who are willing to follow Solars.

[Xelloss]

Cecelyne Charms will help you build a facist state devoted to keeping the Yozi sealed

Where did you see that ? Cecelyne Charms built cults devoted to *you*. And it's not a fascist state. It's a theocraty, and the Infernal is not the highest priest, he's the god.

[Jukashi]

I spoke a bit about the Ebon Dragon a while ago.

Spoiler

Show

The Ebon Dragon is Freedom.

What is freedom? Self-empowerment, self-control. Control of your own destiny, control of your situation, control over anything you want to control. To do what you want, to have what you want, to be what you want. Freedom is to be loosed from all bonds, to be uninfluenced by any desires save your own. So of course he is selfish, for the desire to be free is the most selfish desire of all. Of course he has no compassion, for emotional bonds are as alien to him as any other; of course he has no morality, as that would be a restraint. Of course he is a coward, for his self is all that is real to him.

He is darkness, because that too is a separation; no eye keeps watch. As he passes, and Erembour plays, demons taste freedom. In the dark, they can do anything, hidden. In the dark, they could be doing anything - you have no sight with which to check. Every child knows to fear the shadows in the closet, out the window, under the bed - they could have anything in them. In the darkness, you're free.

But you can't be free without something to be free from. When all was the Wyld, one had no choice but the Wyld. Without something to choose or not choose, one has no choice at all. The Dragon's Shadow was a being of paradox, for true freedom includes the freedom to be bound; he cannot bind himself and stay free, yet cannot say he is truly free if he cannot choose to not be free. So came the Sun, and recall that the Unconquered Sun is not only light, but order, justice, honour, courage. The Dragon helped create law and order, even as he created things such as pain and suffering; as things for he himself to be free from. This is the same reason he chose to bind himself in Malfeas, and why he struggles hardest to escape. He is the ourobourus in reverse, constantly creating the enemies that create him.

Just as Isodoros is might, just as She Who Lives in Her Name personifies the rules, so too the Ebon Dragon is freedom.

Or at least, that's my theory.

I think the key factor in Exquisite Bride Obsession is not unwillingness necessarily, but doing something you're not supposed to do. Sure, he likes the old "ar-har-har-you-shall-be-my-bride-my-pretty" moustache-twirling bit, but I reckon he'd also like marrying a willing partner, if that marriage somehow vexed a bunch of other people.

For example, you could woo a princess, spirit her away from her father's castle and marry her in a ceremony that concludes just in time for the king and her former arranged fiancee to see the final kiss, then be spirited away by your minions just as his soldiers race up to the altar, laughing. If you plan to have the king killed and inherit his kingdom thereby, so much the better!

Also it would probably count if you had manipulated, deceived or mind-controlled your target spouse into being willing.

[Tackyhillbillu]

The thing is, Yozi are their concepts first, and Yozi second. The same way Adorjan Charms will aid you in eroding someone's Intimacy towards Adorjan, or Cecelyne Charms will help you build a facist state devoted to keeping the Yozi sealed, you can appeal to a Yozi while simultaneously screwing them over. I mean, the best way to use Exquisite Bride Obsession would be to kidnap the Ebon Dragon's bride and marry her first.

I'm pretty sure the Ebon Dragon would actually still approve of that. He'd have you killed, in some suitably horrifying way, but he'd still approve. To screw over the King of screwing people over, thats something the Ebon Dragon would approve of.

Also, that sounds like an amusing plot for an Infernal's game.

[Green Bean]

I'm pretty sure the Ebon Dragon would actually still approve of that. He'd have you killed, in some suitably horrifying way, but he'd still approve. To screw over the King of screwing people over, thats something the Ebon Dragon would approve of.

Also, that sounds like an amusing plot for an Infernal's game.

Yep, he certainly would. Self-interest takes a backseat to whatever the Yozi represent. That's why the Reclamation is doomed to fail; they put the Ebon Dragon in charge of the planning, so he's literally compelled to screw his brothers and sisters over somehow.

[Tavar]

Ach. Sorry, I did mean Aria, though Blossom could work to, I guess.

[Kyeudo]

Yep, he certainly would. Self-interest takes a backseat to whatever the Yozi represent. That's why the Reclamation is doomed to fail; they put the Ebon Dragon in charge of the planning, so he's literally compelled to screw his brothers and sisters over somehow.

Actually, enlightened self-interest is one of his schticks as well. If he benefits greatly from a given act, he doesn't mind helping.

He also invented Claustrophobia, which is why his current motivation is "GET OUT OF MALFEAS NOW!!!!" He honestly wants the Reclamation to succeed, because that would get him back out.

Now, if he can figure out how to be the only one to get out, then he'd screw over his brothers and sisters, but not if it hurts his chances at getting out. This may be why he's pulling all these stunts with the Scarlet Empress.

[Green Bean]

Looking at his Excellency, the Ebon Dragon is incapable of any action that benefits others more than himself. It is literally impossible for him to come up with a plan that simply frees all of the Yozi; there has to be some way for him to screw his siblings over in the course of it.

[Kyeudo]

Looking at his Excellency, the Ebon Dragon is incapable of any action that benefits others more than himself. It is literally impossible for him to come up with a plan that simply frees all of the Yozi; there has to be some way for him to screw his siblings over in the course of it.

A Yozi is never incapable of an action. There are just some actions a Yozi does not think about doing (Try to get Malfeas to go pick daisies). If a Yozi can think of an action, he can do it. The only known force that can keep the Yozis in check is the power of their own oaths, in other words only themselves can keep themselves contained.

[Tavar]

Really? So if you made the Ebon Dragon promise not to double-cross anyone, what would happen?

[Green Bean]

A Yozi is never incapable of an action. There are just some actions a Yozi does not think about doing (Try to get Malfeas to go pick daisies). If a Yozi can think of an action, he can do it. The only known force that can keep the Yozis in check is the power of their own oaths, in other words only themselves can keep themselves contained.

Primordials are not people. Their natures dictate what they do, and they cannot change that short of Third Circle death. The Ebon Dragon cannot come up with a plan that benefits all of the Yozi equally any more than Adorjan can decide to slow down and start a heavy metal band. It simply isn't in their nature.

[Indon]

So, in the South, if you were immune to fire and lava, you could walk in an infinite volcano?

Is it really a volcano by the time you reach the 'pole'? I would've thought it'd just be fire.

A Yozi is never incapable of an action. There are just some actions a Yozi does not think about doing (Try to get Malfeas to go pick daisies). If a Yozi can think of an action, he can do it. The only known force that can keep the Yozis in check is the power of their own oaths, in other words only themselves can keep themselves contained.

Well, in their case, their will is equivalent to what they can do. For a Primordial/Yozi, will becomes reality.

Thus, it's not that the Ebon Dragon can't do these things necessarily - it's that he'd never want to. The natures of the Yozis influence their desires, which in turn delimit their powers.

[Kyeudo]

Is it really a volcano by the time you reach the 'pole'? I would've thought it'd just be fire.

It is just fire. It's fire that has shape and substance (when it cares to). It's worse than an infinite volcano.

Well, in their case, their will is equivalent to what they can do. For a Primordial/Yozi, will becomes reality.

Thus, it's not that the Ebon Dragon can't do these things necessarily - it's that he'd never want to. The natures of the Yozis influence their desires, which in turn delimit their powers.

The Ebon Dragon wants "OUT!" None of the other Yozis are claustrophobic, that we know of. Heck, Adorjan doesn't even particularly obsess over escaping. By definition, the Ebon Dragon has the most to gain by escaping.

This does not mean I don't consider the Ebon Dragon likely to try and leave his siblings locked in Malfeas. I just don't think he'll hurt his chances at breaking out just to screw them all over. Enlightened self interest is enlightened, after all.

[MandibleBones]

Really? So if you made the Ebon Dragon promise not to double-cross anyone, what would happen?

He'd break the promise and suffer the Essence 5 penalty from the Eclipse who sanctified it. Been there, done that.

/Also works with Deathlords!

[Tavar]

He'd break the promise and suffer the Essence 5 penalty from the Eclipse who sanctified it. Been there, done that.

/Also works with Deathlords!

How about if you force him to swear it on his name? Like at the end of the primordial war?