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  1. - Top - End - #511
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    Default Re: Keychain of Creation 3: Not-a-Keyblade Understanding & Falafel-is-Awesome Prana C

    Actually, Lytek doesn't know either. He'd be trying to fix it if he did.

    The gods that know are some in the Bureau of Secrets. Thing is, their nature is not to tell anyone.

    The biggest hope for ridding Creation of the Curse is, ironically, the Abyssals. The Neverborn lifted the Curse on them, which means they can recognise it.

    If an Abyssal redeems, he will become a Solar- but without the Curse.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Revlid View Post
    And so it was that Zaeed, Aang, Winry, Ezio, Sadoko and Snow White all set out on their epic journey to destroy The Empire.

    God I love Exalted.


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  2. - Top - End - #512
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    Default Re: Keychain of Creation 3: Not-a-Keyblade Understanding & Falafel-is-Awesome Prana C

    Quote Originally Posted by horngeek View Post
    Actually, Lytek doesn't know either. He'd be trying to fix it if he did.
    Yes he does. And he is.
    There's no wrong way to play. - S. John Ross

    Quote Originally Posted by archaeo View Post
    Man, this is just one of those things you see and realize, "I live in a weird and banal future."

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    Default Re: Keychain of Creation 3: Not-a-Keyblade Understanding & Falafel-is-Awesome Prana C

    ...source, please.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Revlid View Post
    And so it was that Zaeed, Aang, Winry, Ezio, Sadoko and Snow White all set out on their epic journey to destroy The Empire.

    God I love Exalted.


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  4. - Top - End - #514
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    Default Re: Keychain of Creation 3: Not-a-Keyblade Understanding & Falafel-is-Awesome Prana C

    Quote Originally Posted by Yuki_Akuma View Post
    There is a win condition - Lytek decides to tell someone about the Great Curse.
    He's known for millenia. He's been trying to fix it, alone, for millenia. I'm pretty sure we can't count on him telling anyone unless forced to - which nobody can, because nobody else is able to even make the leaps of logic necessary, as the curse seems to include a fair bit of lobotomy when it comes to itself.

    Though Horngeek's idea does work. An Abyssal could, conceivably, in a completely hypothetical scenario (because if one with high enough Essence tried, the Neverborn would probably give him 20 points of Resonance for trying to screw their grand design so horribly much and he'd implode ) manage to get Lytek to spill the goddamn beans already. Then maybe something can be done about it.

  5. - Top - End - #515
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    Default Re: Keychain of Creation 3: Not-a-Keyblade Understanding & Falafel-is-Awesome Prana C

    Quote Originally Posted by Drascin View Post
    Though Horngeek's idea does work. An Abyssal could, conceivably, in a completely hypothetical scenario (because if one with high enough Essence tried, the Neverborn would probably give him 20 points of Resonance for trying to screw their grand design so horribly much and he'd implode ) manage to get Lytek to spill the goddamn beans already. Then maybe something can be done about it.
    The guy doesn't even actually need to be an Abyssal anymore- they can redeem, you know.

    And if they do, they don't become subject to the Great Curse again.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Revlid View Post
    And so it was that Zaeed, Aang, Winry, Ezio, Sadoko and Snow White all set out on their epic journey to destroy The Empire.

    God I love Exalted.


    Gold Dragon avatar by Serpentine


  6. - Top - End - #516
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    Default Re: Keychain of Creation 3: Not-a-Keyblade Understanding & Falafel-is-Awesome Prana C

    For that matter, if someone (by which I mean a Celestial, probably with a lot of friends backing him up) convinced the Neverborn to go gentle into that good night, and give up their link to Creation, that might get rid of the Great Curse incidentally as well.

    Sure, that wouldn't be easy, but the UCS didn't exalt people to do easy stuff.

    Also, don't the ghosts of Exalts past know? Or at least the First Age Exalts who were heavily influenced by the Curse and saw it in their friends too? I mean, they may not know the details, but they know there was something that caused them all to go crazy in life, don't they?
    When in doubt, light something on fire.

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    Default Re: Keychain of Creation 3: Not-a-Keyblade Understanding & Falafel-is-Awesome Prana C

    They think that the "go crazy" part is just part of being a Solar. They think that being capable of being so perfect is just too much for a human mind to handle.

    Lunars, Sidereals, and Terrestrials don't have it so hard, so most people think its just the Solars who go crazy.

  8. - Top - End - #518
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    Default Re: Keychain of Creation 3: Not-a-Keyblade Understanding & Falafel-is-Awesome Prana C

    Quote Originally Posted by horngeek View Post
    ...source, please.
    "Lytek, along with the Maiden of Secrets, is one of two beings who know of the Great Curse for certain, and he has spent millennia since the Usurpation looking
    for a cure. In addition, he also sees the Abyssal Exaltation as a perversion of his own work and, along with several members of the Gold Faction and Hran-Tzu, seeks a way to undo it."

    P. 143-4, The Compass of Celestial Directions, Vol. III—Yu-Shan
    Last edited by RedScholarGypsy; 2010-04-18 at 07:41 AM.
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  9. - Top - End - #519
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    Default Re: Keychain of Creation 3: Not-a-Keyblade Understanding & Falafel-is-Awesome Prana C

    I would like to throw in that Autocthon knows about the Great Curse as well. It also says in Alchemicals that should Alchemical Exalts spend any reasonable amount of time with other Exalts they will figure out there is something wrong. Or of course the Infernal's are free from the Great Curse aren't they? This would indicate that either: A) The Yozis can remove the Curse just like the Neverborn. or B) The Ebon Dragon was able to talk the Neverborn into removing the Curse from the Yozis 50 Exaltations. If the first is true enough rounds of Fetich Death Later and we would be able to get rid of the great Curse. If the second it still might work but it would be risky as The Ebon Dragon might lose the ability to talk his dead brothers into what he wants.
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    Default Re: Keychain of Creation 3: Not-a-Keyblade Understanding & Falafel-is-Awesome Prana C

    Quote Originally Posted by Drascin View Post
    Thing is, Creation is doomed to suck for as long as Exalted exist, because it's in the Exalts' nature to go crazy and screw up everything. But without Exalts, Fae win and we go back to formless Wyld. So, you know. Lose/lose.

    It's like in Earth, except that while we do have the chance for a nuclear holocaust, at least the mere fact of becoming president of a country with a weapon stockpile doesn't instantly curse you to eventually and inevitably turn into a crazy destructive jackass that will use them indiscriminately. Which does make a difference.

    Really, only thing that could un-doom Creation from an eternal cycle of suck would be to fix the Curse. Which nobody can do because nobody except Lytek even knows it exists, so nobody can even ask him about it to try to find a solution (and anyone who would have a snowball's chance in hell to even think of it won't, because only Exalts can do things in this setting and Exalts are by their nature incapable of realizing there's a curse). Then it would be simply a world besieged in all sides and with a fair amount of crap - but with a slight chance of being fixed bit by bit.

    But that won't happen, because White Wolf is physiologically unable to do an actual optimistic game. Closest they get is Geist
    This isn't really true. The Solar's are the only ones doomed to be horrible monsters. The Sidereals curse is also problematic in nature. But the Dragonblooded and the Lunars were not hit by the Curse all that hard. The Lunars variant makes them do a lot of things, but it doesn't turn them into insane God Kings. The Dragonblooded version isn't that dangerous either. Of course, these are the two kinds of Exalts for whom it would be most difficult to lead Creation, the Lunars because of their Bond, and the Terrestials, because they kind of such.

    Lytek knows, and someday he might get around to telling somebody. But hey, wait, his turn at the Games of Divinity is up! He'll get right back to you...

    ---

    Also, I've never been able to figure out if the Green Sun Princes suffer the curse or not. Frankly, it seems like they are more or less the perfect incarnation of it, what happens when it is taken to its ultimate extremes.
    Last edited by Tackyhillbillu; 2010-04-18 at 12:36 PM.

  11. - Top - End - #521
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    Default Re: Keychain of Creation 3: Not-a-Keyblade Understanding & Falafel-is-Awesome Prana C

    If an Abyssal redeems, he will become a Solar- but without the Curse.
    Have yet happend yet?
    thnx to Starwoof for the fine avatar

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    Default Re: Keychain of Creation 3: Not-a-Keyblade Understanding & Falafel-is-Awesome Prana C

    Quote Originally Posted by Tackyhillbillu View Post
    Also, I've never been able to figure out if the Green Sun Princes suffer the curse or not. Frankly, it seems like they are more or less the perfect incarnation of it, what happens when it is taken to its ultimate extremes.
    According to the Infernals splat, Torment and Limit come from the Exaltation's Yozi corruption rather than the Neverborn's death curse. The Ebon Dragon found out about the Curse, so either they figured out a way to fix it/replace it with Torment, or there was a subclause in their deal with the Neverborn that required them to remove it.

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    Default Re: Keychain of Creation 3: Not-a-Keyblade Understanding & Falafel-is-Awesome Prana C

    Quote Originally Posted by Green Bean View Post
    According to the Infernals splat, Torment and Limit come from the Exaltation's Yozi corruption rather than the Neverborn's death curse. The Ebon Dragon found out about the Curse, so either they figured out a way to fix it/replace it with Torment, or there was a subclause in their deal with the Neverborn that required them to remove it.
    Well, I don't know if he had to remove the Curse though, thats my point. It isn't like the Curse would prompt the Infernals to do something the Yozi's wouldn't want them to do. It could be that it is lurking around in the background, but the depravity it causes it just kind of lost in the general depravity.

  14. - Top - End - #524
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    Default Re: Keychain of Creation 3: Not-a-Keyblade Understanding & Falafel-is-Awesome Prana C

    Quote Originally Posted by Tackyhillbillu View Post
    Well, I don't know if he had to remove the Curse though, thats my point. It isn't like the Curse would prompt the Infernals to do something the Yozi's wouldn't want them to do. It could be that it is lurking around in the background, but the depravity it causes it just kind of lost in the general depravity.
    "While the Celestial Exalted still labor under the the Great Curse, the Green Sun Princes are free of that weakness." - MOEP: Infernals, Pg. 80

    .... There are MANY limit breaks that would impair the Green Sun Princes. I don't see how Heart of Tears or Ascetic Drive would aid the Reclamation.

  15. - Top - End - #525
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    Default Re: Keychain of Creation 3: Not-a-Keyblade Understanding & Falafel-is-Awesome Prana C

    You are correct, I apologize.

    As for the Limit Breaks, those aren't the ultimate form of the Great Curse.
    Last edited by Tackyhillbillu; 2010-04-18 at 03:26 PM.

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    Default Re: Keychain of Creation 3: Not-a-Keyblade Understanding & Falafel-is-Awesome Prana C

    Heart of Tears -
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    Neverborn 1: Why in [insert appro-pro Neverborn curse] are you crying, you Infernal wretch?
    Infernal: I-I'm s-s-sorry. It's j-just th-the world is s-so s-sh-shiny an-and puh-pretty a-and n-nice an-and I-I'm s-so e-e-e-evil.*crying sounds*
    Neverborn 2: We really have to do something about that.
    Neverborn 1: Malfeas yes.
    Last edited by Jokasti; 2010-04-18 at 03:28 PM.

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    Default Re: Keychain of Creation 3: Not-a-Keyblade Understanding & Falafel-is-Awesome Prana C

    Quote Originally Posted by Jokasti View Post
    Heart of Tears -
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    Neverborn 1: Why in [insert appro-pro Neverborn curse] are you crying, you Infernal wretch?
    Infernal: I-I'm s-s-sorry. It's j-just th-the world is s-so s-sh-shiny an-and puh-pretty a-and n-nice an-and I-I'm s-so e-e-e-evil.*crying sounds*
    Neverborn 2: We really have to do something about that.
    Neverborn 1: Malfeas yes.
    By Infernal, do you mean Abyssal, or by Neverborn do you mean Yozi?
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    Default Re: Keychain of Creation 3: Not-a-Keyblade Understanding & Falafel-is-Awesome Prana C

    I don't think the Great Curse makes that big of a difference.

    Imagine that tomorrow, you're given great power to solve humanities problems but at the same time explicitly told that you're now something better, more than you're fellow man. And you are, anything you could possibly want to do, you can do easily.

    Wanna get with the former prom queen who humiliated you in high school? Hell, wanna get with Angelina Jolie? Husband-Seducing Demon Dance.

    Need to fight off her boyfriend/body guards? Solar Melee.


    Wanna be the best football/basketball/soccer player of all time? Solar Athletics?

    Wanna be President of the United States and bring about world peace? Solar Performance and Presence.

    Wanna cure Cancer? Solar Medicine.

    And you do this for a hundreds of years. Your parents are dead. Your mortal friends are dead. Your lover(s) is dead. Your children are dead. Your grandchildren might be dead. All your connections to your mortal life are gone. Are you still going to feel human?

    Who knows what your reaction would be, but imagine the situation in the First Age. There are 300 superpowered beings who can do anything they want and who might or might even think of themselves as humans. There are no longer any real threats to creation, so they have to manufacture such threats themselves. Add to that the fact that exalted are not necessarily chosen for being good people.

    The first age would have been pretty screwed up regardless of the great curse.

  19. - Top - End - #529
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    Default Re: Keychain of Creation 3: Not-a-Keyblade Understanding & Falafel-is-Awesome Prana C

    Quote Originally Posted by Kellhus View Post
    Your parents are dead. Your mortal friends are dead. Your lover(s) is dead. Your children are dead. Your grandchildren might be dead.
    There are Charms and artifacts to fix that, you know.

    Granted, you have to be Essence 7 to use the said Charms.
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    Default Re: Keychain of Creation 3: Not-a-Keyblade Understanding & Falafel-is-Awesome Prana C

    Your friends are necessarily dead. The vast majority of Lunar's, Siddies, and other Solars are still around. Your Children are Godblooded, and far more likely to Exalt then not.

    There are still plenty of threats to Creation. The Fae, the Yozi, the Underworld.

    The First Age was prety much awesome. You are probably right, some of the Exalted would have gone crazy. Thats what other Solars are for, as well as Siddies, and Lunars other then the bondmate.

    Honestly, the Siddies have pretty much been in the same place as the Solars since the usurpation, and they haven't gone that insane. Life under the Shogunate was cool, not as good as the First Age, but still good. Even now, the Realm and Lookshy are good.

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    Default Re: Keychain of Creation 3: Not-a-Keyblade Understanding & Falafel-is-Awesome Prana C

    The other thing to keep in mind is that while Solar Exaltation doesn't necessarily choose good people, it isn't choosing at random either. Solars are people with an enormous drive to achieve some monumental task. Somebody who spends all their time thinking about how they'd like to get back at all the people who made fun of them back in high school or seduce a model isn't going to be Exalted.

    Now sure, you might get the occasional guy who's vengeful enough to take the time to get back at some mortals from his past life, but there are only 700 Celestials in Creation, most of whom have outlived their mortal lives at any given time anyway. The odds of the kid you showed up in 8th grade PE class Exalting and beating you up for it are far, far less than the odds of getting hit by a magitech bus.

    And sans Great Curse, the other 299 Solars would probably be a lot more diligent policing their own. Sure, they might screw up the odd mortal, but anything wide-spread would probably result in the rest of the Deliberative discussing proper Solar behavior with the offender.

    Lastly, they'd probably get jaded. Would magically seducing some chick really be that tempting when you've already slept with thousands of other hot chicks over the last millenium or so and have a harem of women happy to sleep with one of the rulers of Creation?
    Last edited by spectralphoenix; 2010-04-18 at 07:09 PM.
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    Default Re: Keychain of Creation 3: Not-a-Keyblade Understanding & Falafel-is-Awesome Prana C

    Also, I think you are understating just how bad the First Age Solar's were. The Virtue Flaws aren't even close to approximating what they were like.

    There's Desus, but we'll put him aside. Admiral Arkadi, an Eclipse Caste Solar. Fought Pirates. Seems like a fairly nice guy. Only problem was that he was in the habit of raping his female Dragonblooded Crewmates, and then using his Anima ability to force them to keep quiet about it.

    That kind of thing was honestly considered normal by the First Age Solars.

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    Default Re: Keychain of Creation 3: Not-a-Keyblade Understanding & Falafel-is-Awesome Prana C

    Quote Originally Posted by Tackyhillbillu View Post
    Also, I think you are understating just how bad the First Age Solar's were. The Virtue Flaws aren't even close to approximating what they were like.

    There's Desus, but we'll put him aside. Admiral Arkadi, an Eclipse Caste Solar. Fought Pirates. Seems like a fairly nice guy. Only problem was that he was in the habit of raping his female Dragonblooded Crewmates, and then using his Anima ability to force them to keep quiet about it.

    That kind of thing was honestly considered normal by the First Age Solars.
    That's a little unfair. Sure, there were a number of monsters scattered about the ranks of the First Age Solars, but for every Desus or Arkadi you have someone like Salina or Amyana who are basically decent people, or like Dancer in Light and Contentious Sword who are self-centred but not actively evil. I mean, if Arkadi's behaviour was so normal in the First Age, why did he need to keep it quiet?

    The Usurpation didn't take place because all of Creation was a dystopic nightmare ruled over by unquestionable God-Kings. It happened because of the prediction that the Curse would eventually take them down that road.

  24. - Top - End - #534
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    Default Re: Keychain of Creation 3: Not-a-Keyblade Understanding & Falafel-is-Awesome Prana C

    Quote Originally Posted by Green Bean View Post
    That's a little unfair. Sure, there were a number of monsters scattered about the ranks of the First Age Solars, but for every Desus or Arkadi you have someone like Salina or Amyana who are basically decent people, or like Dancer in Light and Contentious Sword who are self-centred but not actively evil. I mean, if Arkadi's behaviour was so normal in the First Age, why did he need to keep it quiet?

    The Usurpation didn't take place because all of Creation was a dystopic nightmare ruled over by unquestionable God-Kings. It happened because of the prediction that the Curse would eventually take them down that road.
    I did overstate the case a little. But the Deliberative knew about Arkadi's indiscretions (somewhere, can't remember where, it says his efforts to cover it up weren't successful) and he was still High Admiral of the Solar Fleet.

    The First Age Solars weren't uniformally terrible, but the Great Curse wasn't some minor problem in the distant future either.

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    Default Re: Keychain of Creation 3: Not-a-Keyblade Understanding & Falafel-is-Awesome Prana C

    Exactly how bad the Solars were and how deserved the Usurpation was is one of those things that ultimately depends on what the Storyteller wants and who wrote whichever splatbook you're currently reading.
    When in doubt, light something on fire.

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    Default Re: Keychain of Creation 3: Not-a-Keyblade Understanding & Falafel-is-Awesome Prana C

    True, the upper echelons of the Deliberative were pretty corrupt, but they were more "bad things for political reasons" than "mustache twirling evil", and pretty much all of the rulerships that came before and afterwards had similar problems. On the other hand, the Solars created a lot of infrastructure and magitech. Unless you were unfortunate enough to live in Tzatli or run into Desus, life in the First Age was generally pretty awesome for everyone.

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    Default Re: Keychain of Creation 3: Not-a-Keyblade Understanding & Falafel-is-Awesome Prana C

    Quote Originally Posted by Green Bean View Post
    Unless you were unfortunate enough to live in Tzatli or run into Desus, life in the First Age was generally pretty awesome for everyone.
    Tzatli wasn't that bad. It was one of the nicer places to live in, until the ruler had an episode and decided to torture people so badly that it would make Desus cringe, just for the fun of it.

    The holder of Desus' Exaltation is less sadistic and cruel in the Second Age. The holder of Bright Shattered Ice's Exaltation is not. They are still attracted to each other.

    Poor Swan, indeed.
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    Default Re: Keychain of Creation 3: Not-a-Keyblade Understanding & Falafel-is-Awesome Prana C

    Quote Originally Posted by The Rose Dragon View Post
    Tzatli wasn't that bad. It was one of the nicer places to live in, until the ruler had an episode and decided to torture people so badly that it would make Desus cringe, just for the fun of it.
    I dunno, some of the descriptions I've read are pretty terrifying. There's an entire caste of people designated to fill in for people who are 'unavailable', and there's a really strict and oppressive system of laws. Whole families have been arrested for arguing too loudly over dinner, and their replacements sit down to finish the meal before it goes cold.

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    Default Re: Keychain of Creation 3: Not-a-Keyblade Understanding & Falafel-is-Awesome Prana C

    Quote Originally Posted by Green Bean View Post
    I dunno, some of the descriptions I've read are pretty terrifying. There's an entire caste of people designated to fill in for people who are 'unavailable', and there's a really strict and oppressive system of laws. Whole families have been arrested for arguing too loudly over dinner, and their replacements sit down to finish the meal before it goes cold.
    Yes, but it had a great magitech infrastructure.

    Bright Shattered Ice was kind of insane, though. Possibly more insane than Desus.
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    Default Re: Keychain of Creation 3: Not-a-Keyblade Understanding & Falafel-is-Awesome Prana C

    Quote Originally Posted by spectralphoenix View Post
    Lastly, they'd probably get jaded. Would magically seducing some chick really be that tempting when you've already slept with thousands of other hot chicks over the last millenium or so and have a harem of women happy to sleep with one of the rulers of Creation?
    That was my point. Almost anything you could imagine wanting to accomplish as a mortal is easy. All you'd need to do is learn the relevant charm. Look at http://keychain.patternspider.net/archive/koc0143.html

    After a thousand years of this, can a Solar really remember what it's like to be human?

    You can see the boredom is apparent when the Deliberative allowed a gigantic Wyld incursion for a military excercise or when Twlights mess with the fabric of reality or wake up the Neverborn for the lulz.

    The end of the First could have been just a bunch of bored superhuman beings who find it harder and harder to empathize with normal people. Occasionally you also get somebody truly evil like Desus.

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