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2010-03-25, 01:24 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2010
Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge II
I would like to disagree with you on this. While yes, it is inelegant to mirror a char-op build, making your own build to optimize an odd concept can still be powerful as well as elegent. Optimising isn't the antithesis of elegance, it is simply more difficult to manage both at once.
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2010-03-25, 01:24 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2007
Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge II
I'd be surprised if we saw many builds that mirrored previous ones submitted - certainly with the Beastmaster challenge nobody submitted a Supermount! build, even though that's the only thing that the Beastmaster is really good at.
Handbooks: (Hosted on the new MixMax forums)
[3.5] The Poison Handbook
[3.5] (New) Master of Shrouds Handbook
[3.5 Base Class] Healer's Handbook
Trophies!Spoiler
Thanks to Strategos and Jumilk for the awesome Iron Chef trophies!
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2010-03-25, 01:25 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2008
- Location
- Broken Damaged Worthless
Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge II
Since I guess we're weighing in, I might as well too. Elegance to me is the "wow, that's clever" factor. I'm pretty familiar with trickery and theory op-style decisions, so those don't wow me anymore (magic9mushroom's builds are always the exception ). However, getting the most out of a given feat/prestige class/base class without resorting to questionably intentioned tricks? That's rare, and that's what I'm looking to see.
EDIT: Concerning optimization, I'm not adverse to seeing it. Hell, if you're given something crappy like Justice of Weal and Woe and are asked to make it good, I'd EXPECT to see some optimization, but again, avoid the dirty tricks. It's more impressive to see you do something great without resorting to questionable tactics.Last edited by arguskos; 2010-03-25 at 01:27 PM.
All that I say applies only to myself. You author your own actions and choices. I cannot and will not be responsible for you, nor are you for me, regardless of situation or circumstance.
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2010-03-25, 01:38 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2004
- Location
- I wish I knew...
- Gender
Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge II
SpoilerQuite possibly, the best rebuttal I have ever witnessed.
Joker Bard - the DM's solution to the Batman Wizard.
Takahashi no Onisan - The scariest Samurai alive
Incarnum and YOU: a reference guide
Soulmelds, by class and slot: Another Incarnum reference
Multiclassing for Newbies: A reference guide for the rest of us
My homebrew world in progress: Falcora
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2010-03-25, 01:38 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2008
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2010-03-25, 02:44 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2009
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2010-03-25, 02:52 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2006
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2010-03-25, 03:12 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2004
- Location
- I wish I knew...
- Gender
Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge II
SpoilerQuite possibly, the best rebuttal I have ever witnessed.
Joker Bard - the DM's solution to the Batman Wizard.
Takahashi no Onisan - The scariest Samurai alive
Incarnum and YOU: a reference guide
Soulmelds, by class and slot: Another Incarnum reference
Multiclassing for Newbies: A reference guide for the rest of us
My homebrew world in progress: Falcora
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2010-03-25, 03:15 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2007
Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge II
I haven' done a lot of optimization, but I enjoy making a truly elegant, playable build. I'll throw my hat into the ring so to speak.
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2010-03-25, 05:38 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2009
Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge II
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2010-03-25, 06:17 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2007
- Location
- California
- Gender
Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge II
I'd like to judge if possible, but more importantly:
The other thread doesn't have what the secret ingredient is on the front page. It'd be nice to streamline the winners, etc. (say, a first-place, second place, third place description in the op, or at least links to descriptions in the op). I'm interested in who wins, not in trying to do the optimization.
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2010-03-26, 01:01 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2008
Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge II
I too am interested in competing (though a little confused what the point of announcing interest in advance is).
Looking for a monster? Making a monster?
Age of Wariors,, A Homebrew Sequel to Tome of Battle (see also the original thread, disciplines table and prestige class table)
All My Homebrew
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2010-03-26, 02:30 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2009
- Location
- Where the Wild Things Are
- Gender
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2010-03-26, 02:45 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2009
- Gender
Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge II
As long as we're all giving our two cents I think if I were to define elegance as I interpret it in a character build it would be "how clock-like is the build?"
To me in an elegant build each feat and class is a cog/gear/what have you. The number of gears in the clock doesn't matter to me, what makes it elegant is when the build is able to use them in such a way that they are all moving simultaneously without any wasteful motions, each contributing to machine as a whole.
The power level of the machine itself is irrelevant to elegance in this way, all that matters is the efficiency of the machine and how creatively it accomplishes its task while still remaining efficient.Last edited by Wings of Peace; 2010-03-26 at 02:52 AM.
Doc Roc: We're going to eat ourselves.
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2010-03-26, 03:34 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2004
- Location
- I wish I knew...
- Gender
Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge II
SpoilerQuite possibly, the best rebuttal I have ever witnessed.
Joker Bard - the DM's solution to the Batman Wizard.
Takahashi no Onisan - The scariest Samurai alive
Incarnum and YOU: a reference guide
Soulmelds, by class and slot: Another Incarnum reference
Multiclassing for Newbies: A reference guide for the rest of us
My homebrew world in progress: Falcora
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2010-03-26, 03:38 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2009
- Gender
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2010-03-26, 03:41 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2004
- Location
- I wish I knew...
- Gender
Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge II
Last edited by ShneekeyTheLost; 2010-03-26 at 03:42 AM.
SpoilerQuite possibly, the best rebuttal I have ever witnessed.
Joker Bard - the DM's solution to the Batman Wizard.
Takahashi no Onisan - The scariest Samurai alive
Incarnum and YOU: a reference guide
Soulmelds, by class and slot: Another Incarnum reference
Multiclassing for Newbies: A reference guide for the rest of us
My homebrew world in progress: Falcora
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2010-03-26, 03:47 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2009
- Gender
Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge II
I think... I need to ask for a different example or perhaps more elaboration. I think I see what you're saying but to me the Rube Goldburg machine example is still a poor synergy because it's wasteful with it's potential energy (even if purposely so. Am I following your logic or am I somewhat off track? I feel like I may be missing the point.
Last edited by Wings of Peace; 2010-03-26 at 03:51 AM.
Doc Roc: We're going to eat ourselves.
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2010-03-26, 04:05 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2009
Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge II
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2010-03-26, 05:48 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2010
Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge II
Can I request that the secret ingredient be edited into the OP so you don't have to hunt for it when look at the thread later?
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2010-03-26, 05:57 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2007
- Gender
Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge II
Quotebox
Avatar by Rain Dragon
Wish building characters for D&D 3.5 was simpler? Try HeroForge Anew! An Excel-based, highly automated character builder. v7.4 now out!
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2010-03-26, 10:38 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2007
- Gender
Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge II
Okay, as interest has accrued so fast, I'm starting the contest now. The secret ingredient: a class that I've never seen used before. Ladies and gentlemen, Complete Scoundrel's Psibond Agent!
Allez optimiser!Last edited by Heliomance; 2010-03-26 at 10:39 AM.
Quotebox
Avatar by Rain Dragon
Wish building characters for D&D 3.5 was simpler? Try HeroForge Anew! An Excel-based, highly automated character builder. v7.4 now out!
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2010-03-26, 12:36 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2010
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2010-03-26, 01:27 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2008
- Location
- Broken Damaged Worthless
Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge II
The Psibond Agent, hmm? Damn. That's an odd one. I'll be watching this with great interest. Let's see what ya'll can produce!
All that I say applies only to myself. You author your own actions and choices. I cannot and will not be responsible for you, nor are you for me, regardless of situation or circumstance.
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2010-03-26, 02:15 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2004
- Location
- I wish I knew...
- Gender
Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge II
Oh my... this does seem.... interesting.
On first blush, it seems like the psionic version of the Dragon Disciple... a psionic class that does not promote Manifestation. But as you look deeper, I'm not sure it was intended to be a psionic class at all...
I can see several applications for this, both subtle and blunt.
Entry requirements are fairly simple, an INT of 16+ is enough to handle the most obnoxious one. It doesn't even necessarily take much in the way of multiclassing, although I can see how a multiclass can take advantage of it.
I look forward to reading the entriesSpoilerQuite possibly, the best rebuttal I have ever witnessed.
Joker Bard - the DM's solution to the Batman Wizard.
Takahashi no Onisan - The scariest Samurai alive
Incarnum and YOU: a reference guide
Soulmelds, by class and slot: Another Incarnum reference
Multiclassing for Newbies: A reference guide for the rest of us
My homebrew world in progress: Falcora
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2010-03-26, 02:23 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2007
Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge II
I learned psionics for an optimization challenge myself: it's a good motivator :)
Regarding the prestige class: very interesting choice. I've never seen it used either, but there's a few ways you could take this build. Hmm.
Edit: Oh, is online material allowed? From a strict reading of the rules it seems to be disallowed.Last edited by Akal Saris; 2010-03-26 at 02:27 PM.
Handbooks: (Hosted on the new MixMax forums)
[3.5] The Poison Handbook
[3.5] (New) Master of Shrouds Handbook
[3.5 Base Class] Healer's Handbook
Trophies!Spoiler
Thanks to Strategos and Jumilk for the awesome Iron Chef trophies!
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2010-03-26, 02:55 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2009
Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge II
Good god this is a horrible prestige class. I have no idea what to do with this.
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2010-03-26, 03:35 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2004
- Location
- I wish I knew...
- Gender
Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge II
SpoilerQuite possibly, the best rebuttal I have ever witnessed.
Joker Bard - the DM's solution to the Batman Wizard.
Takahashi no Onisan - The scariest Samurai alive
Incarnum and YOU: a reference guide
Soulmelds, by class and slot: Another Incarnum reference
Multiclassing for Newbies: A reference guide for the rest of us
My homebrew world in progress: Falcora
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2010-03-26, 03:44 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2008
- Location
- Broken Damaged Worthless
Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge II
Considering that psibond allows a save... yeah. I mean, Nudge doesn't specifically, but since establishing that link does give one, it makes it kinda a moot point. Further, using the psibond requires concentration (standard actions), making it a bit of a pain.
That said, I'm interested to see what people do with it. I've a few ideas on how to use it myself. It'll be interesting to see what folk figure out.
All that I say applies only to myself. You author your own actions and choices. I cannot and will not be responsible for you, nor are you for me, regardless of situation or circumstance.
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2010-03-26, 03:54 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2004
- Location
- I wish I knew...
- Gender
Re: Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge II
False Sensory Input is also not allowed a save, through the Psibond. And, once the psibond has been established, you can use multiple effects, all without saves.
The thing is, this should be seen as a challenge, not an impossibility. So, your challenge is to use this class effectively. If you don't want to? Just don't submit anything. Sit back and see what others come up with.
This is as much a spectator sport as anything else. Half the fun will be in seeing what kind of builds people come up with.SpoilerQuite possibly, the best rebuttal I have ever witnessed.
Joker Bard - the DM's solution to the Batman Wizard.
Takahashi no Onisan - The scariest Samurai alive
Incarnum and YOU: a reference guide
Soulmelds, by class and slot: Another Incarnum reference
Multiclassing for Newbies: A reference guide for the rest of us
My homebrew world in progress: Falcora