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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Pathfinder tweaks

    I'm not really sure if this fits under homebrew, or not. If it doesn't, I apologize.

    Anyway, I decided I didn't like how PF handled exotic weapons. One thing led to another and I wrote a whole laundry list of tweaks. As I never really have done this, I would love a bit of feedback, so (PEACH).

    On weapons:
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    • All nonracial exotic weapons -> Martial
    • Exotic weapon -> adds ability to current weapon from: Brace, Disarm, Trip, Reach can be added to polearms
    • Double weapons only cost 1x to enchant and MW


    On Armor:
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    • Adding the hide shield from sandstorm.
    • Tower shield and hide shields are under heavy shield proficiency.
    • You may shield bash with a towershield, and place a spike on it.


    On Races:
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    • Halforcs can choose the current race, or the beta version of thier race
    • Halflings lose the +1 to saves, and gain a feat
    • Humans get to name a skill as a class skill
    • Dwarves get +2 to CMD
    • Elves get to roll automatically for secret doors within 10 feet
    • Gnomes get darkvision to replace lowlight


    On feats:
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    • All feats that add 2 to 2 different skills are gone. Instead you can take a generic one that adds to any 2 you want(except for class bonuses, such as alertness from a wizard's familiar.
    • Arcane armor training doesn't take an action (including mastery)
    • Disruptive is 1/2 your BAB, instead of 4.
    • Dodge and mobility are combined.
    • Endurance and diehard are combined.
    • Run and Fleet are combined.
    • Improved counterspell will also allow using two of the same level spells.(same school, still)
    • All save bumping feats are combined with the appropiate improved save bump feat.
    • Cleave and vital strike are combined. Cleave and great cleave will work with the vital strike tree, but great cleave is still a seperate feat.
    • Rapid reload works on all crossbows, no need to take per crossbow type.
    • Strike back allows you to strike for each hit they do on you, up to your standard full attack.
    • Toughness is back to beta version (3+1 per HD)
    • TWF defense is combined with TWF, and gets an additional +1 for improved and greater TWF.
    • Current weapon finesse is free. (including touch spells)
    • New weapon finesse: You replace str with dex for damage on finesse weapons.
    • Craft wondrous items: Any power than duplicates, or exceeds previous craft feats cost 50% more. I.E. An elixir as a potion of cure critical costs spell level * caster level * 25 * 1.5 Ask if this confuses you.
    • Enlarge and widen spell are combined.



    On classes:
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    • Barbarian: Didn't look, as noone is barbarian. Feel free to suggest one if you want.
    • Bard: Looks fine to me.
    • Cleric: You may spend a second charge to add 1/2 your cleric level to a channel. Swift action.
    • Druid: Needs something, not sure what yet.
    • Fighter: Gains perception and stealth as class skills.
    • Monk: I just hate this class. Replace with swordsage from Tome of Battle.
    • Paladin: I'm looking at you smite, but I'm not sure how to change you.
    • Ranger: Evasion at 4th. Imp at 12th. Trackless step (like druids) at 7th.
    • Rogue: Adds half rogue level to CL if they take a caster class.
    • Sorcerer: At 6th, 12th, and 18th the sorcerer can choose a metamagic feat they have. Using this feat no longer increases casting time.
    • Wizard: Universalist: You can add int to damage for hand of the apprentice.
      1. Transmutation: You can sacrifice half the bonus (round as least benefits) to make it an insight bonus instead of enhancement.
      2. Necromancy: Your channel is based off int.
      3. Illusion: In addition to current powers you can use illusions againist targets normally immune. You can target 1/5 wizard levels times per day immune creatures and force them to perceive it as a non-immune creature. (vs true seeing, undead, etc)
      4. Evocation: Intense spells instead adds your intelligence to damage, but doesn't work on cantrips.
      5. Enchantment: Same as Illusion
      6. Divination: 1/day you may add half your wizard level to a reflex save. You must decide to use this before rolling. (you may roll spellcraft first)
      7. Conjuration: 1/day you may ignore making concentration checks to maintaining a spell after damage.
      8. Abjuration: Resistance will stack with any other resistance to the same element.


    On PrC:
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    • Shadow Dancer: Gains a die of sneak attack on 3, 6 and 9. Shadow jump is a swift action, that doesn't end your turn.
    • Pathfinder Chronicler: Gains 1/2 spell progression.
    • Assassin: Gains rogue talents at 3, 6 and 9.
    • Dragon Disciple: Dead caster progression levels give +1 CL. The +2 int is replaced with +2 (caster stat)
    • Duelist: See feats, already better from that alone.
    • Arcane Archer: Gains arcane strike as a bonus feat. (level 1)
    • Arcane Trickster: Only requires first level spells.
    • Mystic Theurge: You have to cast 2nd level spells on one side, and 1st level on the other. You may decide which way.
    • Loremaster: Add your casterlevel to knowledge checks.
    • Eldritch Knight: When you proc spell critical, you may use it as a free action. However you may not use your swift action to cast a spell.


    Sorry if the format looks goofy, I wrote it in notepad. (should edit out the errors quickly)

    Thank you kindly.
    Last edited by BobVosh; 2010-04-01 at 04:35 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Alabenson
    Evil Intelligence is knowing the precise ritual that will allow you to destroy the peaceful kingdom that banished you.

    Evil Wisdom is understanding that you probably shouldn’t perform said ritual while you’re standing in the estimated blast radius.

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    Default Re: Pathfinder tweaks

    I heartily endorse these tweaks

    I house-rule quite a bit with my pathfinder gaming group to try and level out a few improvements that should have made their way into the final rules, but your list includes some more modifications that I will look at incorporating, particularly the feat improvements.

    May I suggest a few skill changes to complete your revision?

    Escape artist --> merge with acrobatics
    Bluff + Intimidate --> merge into one skill "Deception"
    Swim + Climb + Fly --> merge into one skill "Athleticism"
    Use Magic Device --> Merge with Knowledge (Arcana)

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    Default Re: Pathfinder tweaks

    Quote Originally Posted by Wannabehero View Post
    Use Magic Device --> Merge with Knowledge (Arcana)
    UMD can also be used to cast divine scrolls, not quite "arana only"
    * my emphasis

    http://dmreference.com/SRD/
    http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/

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    Default Re: Pathfinder tweaks

    Quote Originally Posted by Agi Hammerthief View Post
    UMD can also be used to cast divine scrolls, not quite "arana only"
    Oops! My mistake.

    Use Magic Device --> Knowledge (Arcana) or Knowledge (Religion) respectively then?

    Or keep it I suppose.

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    Default Re: Pathfinder tweaks

    Quote Originally Posted by Wannabehero View Post
    Use Magic Device --> Knowledge (Arcana) or Knowledge (Religion) respectively then?

    Or keep it I suppose.
    having to spend twice the skill points for full functionality of UMD is not helping. if you want UMD to be used more often:
    lower the DCs by 5 (atm it takes to about till 10th level to get 50% success)
    only 2 classes have it and only the Bard has CHA as the main stat.
    so what if he has 18CHA? he's a caster already.



    Quote Originally Posted by BobVosh
    Dragon Disciple: Dead caster progression levels give +1 CL
    the Dragon Disciple is already overpowered, no?

    - full Sorcerer (Draconic) progression
    - Half Dragon template
    - d12 HD
    - 2 good saves
    - medium BAB
    - cheap entry

    and now you are lowering the cost even more?
    * my emphasis

    http://dmreference.com/SRD/
    http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/

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    Things that do kill me leave me dead

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    Default Re: Pathfinder tweaks

    Quote Originally Posted by Agi Hammerthief View Post
    having to spend twice the skill points for full functionality of UMD is not helping. if you want UMD to be used more often:
    lower the DCs by 5 (atm it takes to about till 10th level to get 50% success)
    only 2 classes have it and only the Bard has CHA as the main stat.
    so what if he has 18CHA? he's a caster already.
    Yeah, I thought about that.

    Perhaps a +4 synergy bonus for a successful Knowledge check (DC 10 + CL of item) in the proper field prior to attempting the UMD check. Possibly once per encounter, day, or upon first obtaining said magic device.

    Personally, I think the UMD DC for any given item should be equal to DC 10 + CL, instead of the ridiculous DC 20 + CL listed for scrolls, and the hard-coded DC 20 for all wands.
    Last edited by Wannabehero; 2010-04-01 at 04:00 PM. Reason: Further Elaboration

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    Default Re: Pathfinder tweaks

    Quote Originally Posted by Wannabehero View Post
    Personally, I think the UMD DC for any given item should be equal to DC 10 + CL, instead of the ridiculous DC 20 + CL listed for scrolls, and the hard-coded DC 20 for all wands.
    the DC 10+x would work in 3.5 where Cross Class progression is at 2points per rank
    in 3.75 its a bit more tricky: with only 3 ranks difference anyone can train in UMD and only have a 15% lower sucess rate than where it is a class skill - not quite what limiting UMD to Rogue and Bard was intended for I suspect.

    you could also leave the DC's where they are and rule UMD = Knowledge (Arcana) + Knowledge (Divine) with a +2 competence bonus if the item is in the skill with the higher ranks (+3 if both are equal)
    Last edited by Agi Hammerthief; 2010-04-01 at 04:48 PM.
    * my emphasis

    http://dmreference.com/SRD/
    http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/

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    Things that do kill me leave me dead

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    Default Re: Pathfinder tweaks

    Quote Originally Posted by Agi Hammerthief View Post
    the DC 10+x would work in 3.5 where Cross Class progression is at 2points per rank
    in 3.75 its a bit more tricky: with only 3 ranks difference anyone can train in UMD and only have a 15% lower sucess rate than where it is a class skill - not quite what limiting UMD to Rogue and Bard was intended for I suspect.
    True enough, though I would think the lower number of skill points available to non-Rogue/Bard characters should be an additional limiting factor to being able to pump up UMD.

    The case of +3 bonus for class skills making little difference and allowing for other classes to step on the toes of the classes intended to use the skill applies to all other skills as well, like a ranger who can sleight of hand like a rogue with only a -3 difference.

    Quote Originally Posted by Agi Hammerthief View Post
    you could also leave the DC's where they are and rule UMD = Knowledge (Arcana) + Knowledge (Divine) with a +2 competence bonus if the item is in the skill with the higher ranks (+3 if both are equal)
    I like this but I feel like it is still a little off. Previously in Pathfinder I've just been fudging down the DC's of UMD for my players. I think after reading this thread and the discussion that has been going on I'm going to try to work out a way to use Knowledge(x) for a synergy/competence (semantics) bonus on UMD for each item.

    Maybe some form of being able to add half of your Knowledge(x) skill to the UMD bonus. Whether this should require a check or not, I'm still on the fence.
    Last edited by Wannabehero; 2010-04-01 at 05:18 PM.

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    Default Re: Pathfinder tweaks

    Without giving a reason for your changes, it's hard to make specific comments, as we have no idea what your p8rpose behind these tweaks is. So, just one comment based n physics instead (sorry catgirls)...

    * Adding the hide shield from sandstorm.
    * Tower shield and hide shields are under heavy shield proficiency.
    * You may shield bash with a towershield, and place a spike on it.
    * Adding hide shield is cool with me (and why stop there).
    * Always struck me as a little weird that tower shields were the only "exotic shield".
    * Using a tower shield as a weapon to attack with is just crazy. Those suckers are 5-6 feet high - much too bulky to attack with. They'd broadcast their action long before you'd get to make contact.

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    Default Re: Pathfinder tweaks

    Quote Originally Posted by Ashtagon View Post
    Without giving a reason for your changes, it's hard to make specific comments, as we have no idea what your p8rpose behind these tweaks is. So, just one comment based n physics instead (sorry catgirls)...



    * Adding hide shield is cool with me (and why stop there).
    * Always struck me as a little weird that tower shields were the only "exotic shield".
    * Using a tower shield as a weapon to attack with is just crazy. Those suckers are 5-6 feet high - much too bulky to attack with. They'd broadcast their action long before you'd get to make contact.
    I'm pretty sure there are quite a few 'weaponised towershields' out there - the boss on a legionary shield was sometimes used on opponents, and there's that weird German duelling thing as well.

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    Default Re: Pathfinder tweaks

    Quote Originally Posted by Wannabehero View Post
    I heartily endorse these tweaks

    I house-rule quite a bit with my pathfinder gaming group to try and level out a few improvements that should have made their way into the final rules, but your list includes some more modifications that I will look at incorporating, particularly the feat improvements.

    May I suggest a few skill changes to complete your revision?

    Escape artist --> merge with acrobatics
    Bluff + Intimidate --> merge into one skill "Deception"
    Swim + Climb + Fly --> merge into one skill "Athleticism"
    Use Magic Device --> Merge with Knowledge (Arcana)
    I forgot about skills. I remember want to make a str and a dex atheltics and acrobatics. I actually like UMD as it is. Bluff + intimidate does seem nice.
    Quote Originally Posted by Agi Hammerthief View Post
    the Dragon Disciple is already overpowered, no?

    - full Sorcerer (Draconic) progression
    - Half Dragon template
    - d12 HD
    - 2 good saves
    - medium BAB
    - cheap entry

    and now you are lowering the cost even more?
    I still haven't seen anyone want to play one. I will admit I didn't look too close at how balanced this class is currently, as I still haven't seen someone ask about it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ashtagon View Post
    Without giving a reason for your changes, it's hard to make specific comments, as we have no idea what your purpose behind these tweaks is. So, just one comment based n physics instead (sorry catgirls)...
    Mainly to make people want to try more things.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ashtagon View Post
    * Adding hide shield is cool with me (and why stop there).
    * Always struck me as a little weird that tower shields were the only "exotic shield".
    * Using a tower shield as a weapon to attack with is just crazy. Those suckers are 5-6 feet high - much too bulky to attack with. They'd broadcast their action long before you'd get to make contact.
    Actually I have been assured tower shields are used for attacks. It sounded a bit like a bullrush type thing, but between bullrush and shield bash only one is particularly useful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Alabenson
    Evil Intelligence is knowing the precise ritual that will allow you to destroy the peaceful kingdom that banished you.

    Evil Wisdom is understanding that you probably shouldn’t perform said ritual while you’re standing in the estimated blast radius.

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    Default Re: Pathfinder tweaks

    Quote Originally Posted by BobVosh View Post
    I still haven't seen anyone want to play one. I will admit I didn't look too close at how balanced this class is currently, as I still haven't seen someone ask about it.
    might be because it's not a munchkinian PrC, less combaty but more flavor than Eldritch Knight.

    I'm still working on my last DM to read into Pathfinder in the first place
    and then the Dragon Diciple is only second on my want list (Rogue/Shadowdancer is 1st)
    * my emphasis

    http://dmreference.com/SRD/
    http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/

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    Default Re: Pathfinder tweaks

    Quote Originally Posted by Wannabehero View Post
    Maybe some form of being able to add half of your Knowledge(x) skill to the UMD bonus. Whether this should require a check or not, I'm still on the fence.
    you could have a DC10 + Spell Level for the Knowledge(x) check to see if it's arcane or devine and then half the skill as a bonus to use it.
    add +1 cumulative to the Knowledge(x) DC for any prerequisite (class, race, alignment, etc.)

    a normal scroll would be 10+1+Spell Level (1 for the class, as you need the spell on your spell list to cast it)
    * my emphasis

    http://dmreference.com/SRD/
    http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/

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    Default Re: Pathfinder tweaks

    Quote Originally Posted by Agi Hammerthief View Post
    you could have a DC10 + Spell Level for the Knowledge(x) check to see if it's arcane or devine and then half the skill as a bonus to use it.
    add +1 cumulative to the Knowledge(x) DC for any prerequisite (class, race, alignment, etc.)

    a normal scroll would be 10+1+Spell Level (1 for the class, as you need the spell on your spell list to cast it)
    I love it.

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    Default Re: Pathfinder tweaks

    Interesting but I don't think I'll use them, honestly.

    Pathfinder gives you feats every 2 levels. If you combine too much the players get too similar.

    Personally I think the Universalist needs more. I'm toying with allowing the universalist to change all his prepared spells with an hours notice.


    Sigurd
    Last edited by sigurd; 2010-04-01 at 08:21 PM.
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    Default Re: Pathfinder tweaks

    I've been thinking on paladin. I've come up with this: Smite lasts 1 minute +1rnd/pally level. While it still buffs the same things it used to, the bonus it gives is 2+1/5 paladin levels. Double damage vs undead, outsiders, and dragons as was previously done. The upside is it works vs all evil creatures for the duration.

    Right now I don't like how smite works as it feels too powerful, and has proven to end encounters almost entirely on its own.
    Quote Originally Posted by Alabenson
    Evil Intelligence is knowing the precise ritual that will allow you to destroy the peaceful kingdom that banished you.

    Evil Wisdom is understanding that you probably shouldn’t perform said ritual while you’re standing in the estimated blast radius.

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    Default Re: Pathfinder tweaks

    Quote Originally Posted by BobVosh View Post
    I've been thinking on paladin. I've come up with this: Smite lasts 1 minute +1rnd/pally level. While it still buffs the same things it used to, the bonus it gives is 2+1/5 paladin levels. Double damage vs undead, outsiders, and dragons as was previously done. The upside is it works vs all evil creatures for the duration.

    Right now I don't like how smite works as it feels too powerful, and has proven to end encounters almost entirely on its own.
    ...use more than one creature? You did notice that Smite still requires the Paladin to declare a single target for it, and that Paladins still get a woefully puny number of Smites/day, right? I'm afraid I just don't understand how you can end encounters with just Smite unless you almost always make fights composed of a single powerful and Evil being.

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    Default Re: Pathfinder tweaks

    Quote Originally Posted by tyckspoon View Post
    ...use more than one creature? You did notice that Smite still requires the Paladin to declare a single target for it, and that Paladins still get a woefully puny number of Smites/day, right? I'm afraid I just don't understand how you can end encounters with just Smite unless you almost always make fights composed of a single powerful and Evil being.
    Actually it happens alot, and Aura of Justice can solve that "only affects one target" problem pretty easily. Though that's partly why I dislike it so much - Against most foes the paladin is still the "Sup-Par fighter", even more so since he now has less incentive to smite hordes, but against single bosses they become the fury.

    Personally, I don't see how "Suck vrs most things, Game shattering against another" makes for balance. I personally prefered the Beta Smite, lasting one round (with it lasting slightly longer at higher levels), affecting all evil foes (not just one) as well as applying the bonus to attack/AC to all as well. I'm not too fond of the whole "Double Damage" against certain creatures, since a few well placed hits suddenly turns those foes into a fine red mist. I've also been prone to the idea of half damage agaisnt non-evil (and no bonus to attack/AC), that way the paladin still has some staying power in evil light games.

    It's pretty ironic, on the Paizo forums they discuss this alot, but the justification for the paladin's power is "Evil creatures should be played smart, meaning the paladin shouldn't be able to just smite freely", which I personally feel is a bit of a poor excuse. It's bascially "The paladin's smite is balanced as long as he/she can't use it", begging the question of why have it as it is?

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    Default Re: Pathfinder tweaks

    Quote Originally Posted by Nero24200 View Post
    Actually it happens alot, and Aura of Justice can solve that "only affects one target" problem pretty easily. Though that's partly why I dislike it so much - Against most foes the paladin is still the "Sup-Par fighter", even more so since he now has less incentive to smite hordes, but against single bosses they become the fury.

    Personally, I don't see how "Suck vrs most things, Game shattering against another" makes for balance. I personally prefered the Beta Smite, lasting one round (with it lasting slightly longer at higher levels), affecting all evil foes (not just one) as well as applying the bonus to attack/AC to all as well. I'm not too fond of the whole "Double Damage" against certain creatures, since a few well placed hits suddenly turns those foes into a fine red mist. I've also been prone to the idea of half damage agaisnt non-evil (and no bonus to attack/AC), that way the paladin still has some staying power in evil light games.

    It's pretty ironic, on the Paizo forums they discuss this alot, but the justification for the paladin's power is "Evil creatures should be played smart, meaning the paladin shouldn't be able to just smite freely", which I personally feel is a bit of a poor excuse. It's bascially "The paladin's smite is balanced as long as he/she can't use it", begging the question of why have it as it is?
    Pretty much how I feel on it. What do you think of my numbers for it, as it is similar to what you said?
    Quote Originally Posted by Alabenson
    Evil Intelligence is knowing the precise ritual that will allow you to destroy the peaceful kingdom that banished you.

    Evil Wisdom is understanding that you probably shouldn’t perform said ritual while you’re standing in the estimated blast radius.

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    Default Re: Pathfinder tweaks

    Quote Originally Posted by BobVosh View Post
    Pretty much how I feel on it. What do you think of my numbers for it, as it is similar to what you said?
    I may still up the damage a little for your version (2 + 1 per 2 or 3 levels instead), but still looks pretty good.

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    Default Re: Pathfinder tweaks

    Some thoughts:
    Exotic-> Martial
    This really should be on a case-by-case basis. For example, should someone who has had general martial weapon training be able to use a whip?

    Double weapon enchantment
    So, would both ends of a double weapon be identical, or are double weapons at half cost to enchant each end?

    Halflings
    This should be an option, not mandatory.

    Cleave and Vital strike
    -These guys really shouldn't work on the same attack. At the point that one should get these, this is better than a full attack on 2 targets (4x weapon at full vs 2x weapon at iterative). This continues to be better as vital strike progresses (6x weapon at full vs 3x at iterative, etc.). For characters that would power attack anyway, this is far better than most styles could get for a feat.

    New Weapon Finesse:
    With this feat, why have strength? The new optimal plan is to grab an elven curve blade, max out dex, and then go to town with a crazy AC and Reflex save, and this is for the most strength oriented build, Two-Handed Weapon. This really should not be an entry-feat. I would almost think to put weapon finesse back and place some other requirement on this.

    Enlarge and Widen:
    Is this a get one to get access to both, or do both get added onto 1 spell for some spell cost?

    Wizard-Evocation:
    This is still a pretty bad effect. Maybe go to +1/die rolled (allowed on cantrips), like the draconic bloodline?

    Wizard-Universalist:
    This was removed from the beta version because low-level wizards were able to outdo low-level fighters. This may want to be add Int-mod to damage (but no more than the wizard level).
    I second the idea of being able to quickly re-prepare spells. Maybe the unversalist can treat all uncast spell slots as empty for the purpose of re-preparing spells, allowing them to quickly switch spells even if they have already chosen spells?

    Fighter
    Given that you are looking at skills, this should probably be a 4+Int class.

    Rogue
    I'm curious what brought this as an idea. It probably shouldn't be available to every rogue, but as extra benefits to minor and major magic talents. Maybe +1 replaced by +1/2 Rogue level respectively?

    Barbarian
    Trying to merge the beta rage point system with the system that's there might be worth looking at. The 1/rage powers just stick out as weird.

    Pathfinder Chronicler
    This really should only progress/give bard casting, but 1/2 level is probably needed.

  22. - Top - End - #22
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    GreenSorcererElf

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    Default Re: Pathfinder tweaks

    I'm sorry, but a spiked tower shield weighs 50 lbs. You're not hitting someone with that, not with enough force to call it an attack. A GREATAXE weighs less than a quarter of that.

    RE: Double Weapons - making enchantments affect both ends sounds like a Very Dangerous Idea. It would essentially make real TWF (with two disparate weapons) totally obsolete, since you can get all the benefits and pay half as much for your gear. Think about whether you really want this one.

    I agree that the Strongheart Halfling should be an option; requiring it takes away one of the more fun little flavor bonuses of playing a halfling and makes them just little humans.

    These are the only ones I've looked at closely, but I'm wary of the martial weapons bit from the first section.

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    NecromancerGirl

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    Default Re: Pathfinder tweaks

    Quote Originally Posted by EpicEvokerElf View Post
    I'm sorry, but a spiked tower shield weighs 50 lbs. You're not hitting someone with that, not with enough force to call it an attack. A GREATAXE weighs less than a quarter of that.
    You don't get the impression that that was a vast overestimate?

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    Agi Hammerthief's Avatar

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    Default Re: Pathfinder tweaks

    re: UMD under Pathfinder

    I just read up on skill focus
    +3 and +6 if 10+ ranks on the skill

    with this on UMD you get a +9 if it is a class skill at 10th level
    so at lest 19 ranks plus ChaMod.
    pretty near enough 100% success with wands and no misshap for scrolls.

    at 5th level you'r at 5+3+3+ChaMod
    which puts the misshap chance well out of range for scrols and wands

    so from this POV the DCs don't look too bad.

    It's a Sorcerer class skill too in 3.75 btw.
    Last edited by Agi Hammerthief; 2010-04-03 at 02:56 AM. Reason: grammar
    * my emphasis

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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: Pathfinder tweaks

    Due to the length of the post, spoilers.
    Responses to Kamai
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kamai View Post
    Some thoughts:
    Exotic-> Martial
    This really should be on a case-by-case basis. For example, should someone who has had general martial weapon training be able to use a whip?
    Out of core this is true. I'll look into other sources taking a feat. I don't really care about a fighter having a whip. It really isn't that great of a weapon.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kamai View Post
    Double weapon enchantment
    So, would both ends of a double weapon be identical, or are double weapons at half cost to enchant each end?
    Identical. You can pay full cost to have each end enchanted differently. (only 1x on MW still)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kamai View Post
    Halflings
    This should be an option, not mandatory.
    I talked with my roommate on this, and I'm opening up luck of heroes from the source of stronghearted halfling.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kamai View Post
    Cleave and Vital strike
    -These guys really shouldn't work on the same attack. At the point that one should get these, this is better than a full attack on 2 targets (4x weapon at full vs 2x weapon at iterative). This continues to be better as vital strike progresses (6x weapon at full vs 3x at iterative, etc.). For characters that would power attack anyway, this is far better than most styles could get for a feat.
    Vital strike only does weapon damage, not anything else. Even on a greatsword this averages 7 damage. Nice, but not really spectacular. I'll consider changing it after playing with it a bit, not really an issue (I don't believe) Don't forget that cleave negates haste.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kamai View Post
    New Weapon Finesse:
    With this feat, why have strength? The new optimal plan is to grab an elven curve blade, max out dex, and then go to town with a crazy AC and Reflex save, and this is for the most strength oriented build, Two-Handed Weapon. This really should not be an entry-feat. I would almost think to put weapon finesse back and place some other requirement on this.
    Interesting. My players have never used ECB, so I had forgot about 2H finesse weapons. I'll look into it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kamai View Post
    Enlarge and Widen:
    Is this a get one to get access to both, or do both get added onto 1 spell for some spell cost?
    I planned on both. Widen is the only one of the two that is really good.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kamai View Post
    Wizard-Evocation:
    This is still a pretty bad effect. Maybe go to +1/die rolled (allowed on cantrips), like the draconic bloodline?
    Good call.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kamai View Post
    Wizard-Universalist:
    This was removed from the beta version because low-level wizards were able to outdo low-level fighters. This may want to be add Int-mod to damage (but no more than the wizard level).
    I second the idea of being able to quickly re-prepare spells. Maybe the universalist can treat all uncast spell slots as empty for the purpose of re-preparing spells, allowing them to quickly switch spells even if they have already chosen spells?
    They still have a daily limit with it. At level 1 they can have as a max of 8 swings, allowing a 20 int. As is it is a nice damaging ability, but hits regular AC and takes range penalties. Humorously we have a rule in place of spending 2 hours to reprepare spell slots as we all got tired of resting after the cleric/wizard ran out of useful spells. Or don't have the utility to move on.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kamai View Post
    Fighter
    Given that you are looking at skills, this should probably be a 4+Int class.
    I...didn't? I meant to do this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kamai View Post
    Rogue
    I'm curious what brought this as an idea. It probably shouldn't be available to every rogue, but as extra benefits to minor and major magic talents. Maybe +1 replaced by +1/2 Rogue level respectively?
    It already is 1/2 rogue level. My reasoning is arcane trickster and archer. Someone wanted to do a rogue + wizard one. Also rogue/clerics can be fun. I mainly stole the thought from spellthief.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kamai View Post
    Barbarian
    Trying to merge the beta rage point system with the system that's there might be worth looking at. The 1/rage powers just stick out as weird.
    Probably nice concept. I did kinda like the rage point system, even with the little extra bookkeeping.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kamai View Post
    Pathfinder Chronicler
    This really should only progress/give bard casting, but 1/2 level is probably needed.
    I meant 1/2 bard casting. Looking at chronicler I can't really have an issue with someone giving up full progression to play a funny sorcerer or whatever though. Could be a fun splash.


    Response to EpicEvokerElf.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EpicEvokerElf View Post
    I'm sorry, but a spiked tower shield weighs 50 lbs. You're not hitting someone with that, not with enough force to call it an attack. A GREATAXE weighs less than a quarter of that.
    Remember that these are not true weights. The war-door actually weighs about 20 lbs. The extra 25 from being awkward to carry. Average of Historical Shields is 2.75 lb/sq ft, which corresponds to a 24" round weighing 8lb 10 oz. If the tower shield is 4x2 (still pretty huge) it weighs 22 lbs. 27.5 if it is 5x2.

    Quote Originally Posted by EpicEvokerElf View Post
    RE: Double Weapons - making enchantments affect both ends sounds like a Very Dangerous Idea. It would essentially make real TWF (with two disparate weapons) totally obsolete, since you can get all the benefits and pay half as much for your gear. Think about whether you really want this one.
    Except you are stuck with whatever is on both ends. Right now there is no real reason to play a double over two weapons.

    Quote Originally Posted by EpicEvokerElf View Post
    I agree that the Strongheart Halfling should be an option; requiring it takes away one of the more fun little flavor bonuses of playing a halfling and makes them just little humans.
    I added luck of heroes, for halfling only, netting +1 AC if you don't want the feat.

    Quote Originally Posted by EpicEvokerElf View Post
    These are the only ones I've looked at closely, but I'm wary of the martial weapons bit from the first section.
    Going through core, I didn't see any of them, except maybe for the racial ones, really worth a feat. Also the bastard sword is on the edge of remaining an exotic weapon.
    Last edited by BobVosh; 2010-04-03 at 12:23 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Alabenson
    Evil Intelligence is knowing the precise ritual that will allow you to destroy the peaceful kingdom that banished you.

    Evil Wisdom is understanding that you probably shouldn’t perform said ritual while you’re standing in the estimated blast radius.

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    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Re: Pathfinder tweaks

    Quote Originally Posted by lesser_minion View Post
    You don't get the impression that that was a vast overestimate?
    It depends on what you think the distinction of the tower shield was.

    I always thought that it was supposed to resemble the Roman scutum shield, which would weigh in between 10-20 lbs.

    However, it was eventually shown to me that the scutum would be more aptly be a large shield, while the tower shield would best be a pavise, do to the mechanics of using it for cover (I believe this was pointed out to me by either Matthew or Swordguy, I can't remember which). With this in mind the weight would be comparable to the 45 lbs given (I am not sure if it's really 45 lbs, as I'm not too knowledgeable on the pavise and a quick google search gave me nothing to work with. However, the pavise was definitely not used in a bashing manner that a scutum or other heavy shields could be utilized.

    Though on a whole it'd probably be best to ignore the weights on a lot of dnd items. Also, to question how effectively a tower shield could be bashed with when you get to high level and 30+ Str scores.
    Last edited by Dienekes; 2010-04-03 at 01:41 AM.

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    Ashtagon's Avatar

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    Default Re: Pathfinder tweaks

    In D&D terms the Roman scutum would be a large shield.

    Large shields (ie. "one-handed" weapons in 3.5e, or "Medium-size" objects in 3.0e) are 2-4 feet in their largest dimension.

    Tower shields (ie. "two-handed" weapons in 3.5e, or "Large" objects in 3.0e) are 4-8 feet in their largest dimension.

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