Is Radiant Servant of Pelor broken?

[KingoftheTrees]

I was on an old message board the other night and saw a few posts about how people thought it was... But I don't really see how exactly it is. Does anyone else have any thoughts or feelings on the subject?

[Ashram]

Full spellcasting, d8 HD, 3/4 BAB, turns stack with those from normal cleric, proficiency with all simple and martial weapons, all light spells range doubled and the spell level increased by one for purposes of dispelling darkness, and (Eventually) free empowered and maximized cures on your Healing domain spell slots.

[Keld Denar]

The basic idea is that it gets everything a cleric does, and then MORE. Much more, in some cases. The only thing it loses is the HD size goes from d8 to d6. Oh, for some reason, it also gets proficiency with ALL martial weapons.

Personally, I think its only a 5 level long class, as the benefits from 6th and up are minor or detrimental (till 10th). Compare to say...Sacred Exorcist as a full casting, full turning PrC and RSoP6-10 fall short.

[krossbow]

Basically look at it this way:


A cleric is broken with 0 class features. Anything that gives it more for 0 cost will always be OP.

[Boci]

So lets see:

Disadvantages: Must take one suboptimal domain, loses 1hp per level

Gain: martial weapons proficiency, in combat healing does not suck so much, one free suboptimal domain, can use DMM and still turn undead, boost to light spells, immune to all diseases even magical ones, +2 to will saves for self and allies, and special area attack against undead, although it seems pretty weak and does not appear to heal allies.

So yeah, definatly a net gain.

[AbyssKnight]

The thing is that a Cleric (already one of THE strongest classes in 3.5) loses nothing taking it. And the prereqs cost almost nothing as well.

Neutral Good- a very common alignment for heroic PCs
Will +5- Clerics have strong Will saves, so Cleric 6 qualifies
Heal and Knowledge (Religion) are both class skills and commonly taken
Extra Turning- only 1 feat prereq and it only helps with DMM cheese
1st level divine spells are a given for Cleric and Sun is a decent domain
(Healing will probably be the 2nd)
Patron- Pelor is no issue for a heroic PC Cleric

Full Casting- no loss of casting
Turn Undead- no loss of Turning
these are the only two class features Clerics have, so a Cleric literally loses nothing

In addition, gets all martial weapon profs, extra Greater Turning, Radiance, Divine Health, aura of warding, EXTRA DOMAIN, empowered/maximized/both healing, positive energy burst.

The only down side is d6 HD, but with Cleric buffs can easily be overcome.

[Shas aia Toriia]

There is no downside to the class. 1 HP a level is really not going to matter that much, especially since the healing buff you get makes up for it.

[warmachine]

A continuation of the cleric class but more abilities at the small price of smaller hit dice and loss of a few class skills. Even the prerequisite of Extra Turning isn't onerous when it can power the turning based feats in the same book.

To add insult to injury, the class is nothing like the accompanying picture. If the class made armour unwearable and granted no weapon proficiencies, making you like the picture, it'd be a shift from warrior priest to healer/undead blaster and be the kind of specialisation that a prestige class should be.

[Kobold-Bard]

Regardless of broken-ness its just dumb.

"I follow the Lord of the Sun and Healing. Now pass me my greatsword so I can go and hack some **** to pieces."

[krossbow]

Regardless of broken-ness its just dumb.

"I follow the Lord of the Sun and Healing. Now pass me my greatsword so I can go and hack some **** to pieces."

before you can heal, you must first create an injury to fix.

[Kobold-Bard]

A continuation of the cleric class but more abilities at the small price of smaller hit dice and loss of a few class skills. Even the prerequisite of Extra Turning isn't onerous when it can power the turning based feats in the same book.

To add insult to injury, the class is nothing like the accompanying picture. If the class made armour unwearable and granted no weapon proficiencies, making you like the picture, it'd be a shift from warrior priest to healer/undead blaster and be the kind of specialisation that a prestige class should be.

And of course not only do you ninja me, but you say it much better.

GARR I hate ninjas sometimes

[Coidzor]

Regardless of broken-ness its just dumb.

"I follow the Lord of the Sun and Healing. Now pass me my greatsword so I can go and hack some **** to pieces."

Makes sense. It's like an effective paladin, actually.

[QuantumSteve]

Woah. I missed the martial weapon prof when I let my Cleric PC take this class. Also, I some how thought that it was a 1/2 BaB class.

Although he plays it as a glorified healbot so it didn't end up broken after all. Also, my other players tend to get mad when he does things other than heal them every round. But that's a gripe for another thread.

[warmachine]

Woah. I missed the martial weapon prof when I let my Cleric PC take this class. Also, I some how thought that it was a 1/2 BaB class.

That's because you thought the picture was based on the class, showing a non-martial character. Now pick up a greatsword, fix your attack bonuses, go CoDzilla and show the fighter how it's done.

[Optimator]

Clerics have always been warrior types. A Cloistered Cleric RSoP may be more fitting with the picture.

[Kylarra]

Note that it's only broken overpowered in the sense that "pretty much strictly greater than the base class" is a measure of broken power. If you don't use the adaptation, Pelor doesn't really have the greatest of domains to choose from.

And RSoP isn't really giving you any gamebreaking powers like say incantrix does. I mean yes it is cleric++, but the majority of the bonuses are bonuses to healing, widely considered a waste of time in combat, and turning undead, widely used to power other feats instead of their original purpose.

I'm not denying that it is an awesome class, and that any NG cleric of Pelor shouldn't pretty much auto take it in campaigns where you expect there to be undead.

edited replacing broken with overpoweredness and such.

[Boci]

So to fix:

Hit die becomes 1d4
BAB becomes 1/2
Loses martial weapon proficiency and extra domain and all class features if they wear armour.

[Kylarra]

So to fix:

Hit die becomes 1d4
BAB becomes 1/2
Loses martial weapon proficiency and extra domain and all class features if they wear armour.

Well really to fix, my question is, "why bother?". Not to harp on this, but clerics are the lowest of tier 1 classes, and RSoP provides bonuses to situational and suboptimal tactics, except for the MWP of course, so what's the big problem?

IF you worship Pelor and IF you're NG and IF you expect there to be a lot of undead, then yes RSoP will seem quite a bit stronger than your standard cleric, but otherwise? Hardly a blip on the cheesedar at all.

[Keld Denar]

Really, the best abilities are the extra uses of Greater Turning, the Radiance ability (combine with Radiant Assault or Sunburst), and the bonus domain. Bonus domains are ALWAYS good. Purification is probably the better choice unless you are up to your holy symbol in undead, due to the blanket +1 CL for all abjuration spells. Thats a qualify bonus right there. The Glory one is better if you ARE buried in undead because with a little work, its not hard to keep your effective turning level high enough to dust almost anything that shambles.

The biggest thing is that it doesn't trade anything for those abilities. Then again, neither does Sacred Exorcist, so....yea.

[Boci]

Well really to fix, my question is, "why bother?". Not to harp on this, but clerics are the lowest of tier 1 classes, and RSoP provides bonuses to situational and suboptimal tactics, except for the MWP of course, so what's the big problem?

IF you worship Pelor and IF you're NG and IF you expect there to be a lot of undead, then yes RSoP will seem quite a bit stronger than your standard cleric, but otherwise? Hardly a blip on the cheesedar at all.

To make being a NG cleric of pelor who doesn't take RSoP an equally viable choice?

[KingoftheTrees]

I was merely wondering, as I am currently playing a RSoP (Cleric 6/RSoP 6) and was wondering what the big deal about the class is. Personally, my only complaints are that my campaign (in fact it's the Savage Tide Adventure Path) WON'T be having that much more undead, plus I find myself not even really using martial weapons so that's not that big of a deal. I do like that it's kinda like a cleric ++. In fact, my character is even more specced out to be a Healbot... My DM let me take the Spontaneous Domain Casting (Healing) ACF from PHB2, so almost every spell I'll be casting to heal once I reach 16th (unless it's non-domain) will be maximized and empowered. No one in my group seems to think this is all too terrible. Heck, even my DM played as this class before (when he took Vow of Poverty) and said it's great. For healing and undead though. It pretty much does just those two things REALLY well, and one of them I won't get the chance to face. :( Maybe if we do Age of Worms though...

[Mongoose87]

To make being a NG cleric of pelor who doesn't take RSoP an equally viable choice?

Anything with full Cleric casting is a viable choice.

[Boci]

I was merely wondering, as I am currently playing a RSoP (Cleric 6/RSoP 6) and was wondering what the big deal about the class is. Personally, my only complaints are that my campaign (in fact it's the Savage Tide Adventure Path) WON'T be having that much more undead, plus I find myself not even really using martial weapons so that's not that big of a deal. I do like that it's kinda like a cleric ++. In fact, my character is even more specced out to be a Healbot... My DM let me take the Spontaneous Domain Casting (Healing) ACF from PHB2, so almost every spell I'll be casting to heal once I reach 16th (unless it's non-domain) will be maximized and empowered. No one in my group seems to think this is all too terrible. Heck, even my DM played as this class before (when he took Vow of Poverty) and said it's great. For healing and undead though. It pretty much does just those two things REALLY well, and one of them I won't get the chance to face. :( Maybe if we do Age of Worms though...

That is because you are playing your character as a healbot. If you were to play your character as a standard buff and slash cleric who happens to be able to heal better and has a couple of useful if not that powerful class features then you might see the problem with this PrC that others have.

Anything with full Cleric casting is a viable choice.

I said equally viable choice.

[comicshorse]

Posted by Boci

Hit die becomes 1d4
BAB becomes 1/2
Loses martial weapon proficiency and extra domain and all class features if they wear armour.

I'd keep the HD at D6 but the rest looks good.My two cents

[goken04]

Posted by Boci


I'd keep the HD at D6 but the rest looks good.My two cents

Let 'em keep the domain and the d6. Losing armor is enough of a kick in the teeth to balance out the class, imo.

[erikun]

Radiant Servant isn't broken, but is is overpowered. That is, it gives up very little, and most of the things it gives up (domain, feat) it gets right back plus more. There is little reason not to take the prestige class, beyond having a better prestige class available.

[Kylarra]

I don't think making a narrow band of cleric equally viable compared to a PrC specializing in those tactics is truly necessary, but if you really had to nerf it, kill the MWP and knock BAB down to 1/2, or up the requirements to get in. Saying "no you have to be a gimpy white mage if you want to be good at healing" is just stupid, imo.

[JaronK]

Broken means there's actually something game breaking about the class. There's not. All you get is the ability to use in combat cures a little better... and those suck. So who cares? Lesser Vigor does out of combat healing better. With that said, sure, the class does in fact make you stronger than a Cleric, and Clerics are insanely strong. But the class doesn't really DO all that much.

JaronK

[Kylarra]

Broken means there's actually something game breaking about the class. There's not.

That's actually a good point, I'll amend my earlier statement of brokenness to the more apt description of "overpowered".

[Philistine]

To make being a NG cleric of pelor who doesn't take RSoP an equally viable choice?

And again the question is, "Why bother?" There are enough reasons not to play a NG Cleric of Pelor in the first place - wanting to play an alignment other than NG, wanting your character to focus on any deity (or cause or principle) other than Pelor, or wanting to choose any domain not on Pelor's list - many of which are just better than those available to a NG Cleric of Pelor, and some of which outstrip even the full-blown RSoP (outside of the very niche applications of "in-combat healing with Cure spells" and "Turning Undead"). So if you're really concerned about making an NG Cleric of Pelor an "equally viable choice," RSoP shouldn't be your biggest worry.