Psionic Bias?

[lightningcat]

Most of the time verbal components are intended to be mental triggers. Kinda like mnemonics for spells. Same for somatic compontents.

[Lycanthromancer]

Most of the time verbal components are intended to be mental triggers. Kinda like mnemonics for spells. Same for somatic compontents.

Does that mean I don't have to Thriller-dance when I cast animate dead?

[Yuki Akuma]

Except in the case of Bards, where the verbal component is actually magical music.

Edit: I didn't say somatic at all. Nope.

[Lycanthromancer]

Except in the case of Bards, where the somatic component is actually magical music.

...Really now.

[PersonMan]

...Really now.

Hey, you can make music my moving around. Well, your vocal cords, at least...

[lesser_minion]

...Really now.

You don't talk to musical instruments much.

[AstralFire]

Give me an hour with you and we'll make plenty of music moving around.

Oh baby.

[Starbuck_II]

Most of the time verbal components are intended to be mental triggers. Kinda like mnemonics for spells. Same for somatic compontents.

How does armor block mental triggers? I'd understand if magical armor did, but mundane?

[TheYoungKing]

How does armor block mental triggers? I'd understand if magical armor did, but mundane?

You ever worn armor?

It hugely constrains your movements, and its hard to exactly replicate something you do unarmored. (Yes, even what the game calls light armor.)

Now, training in armor for the movements, that's where certain classes come in.....

[Starbuck_II]

You ever worn armor?

It hugely constrains your movements, and its hard to exactly replicate something you do unarmored. (Yes, even what the game calls light armor.)

Now, training in armor for the movements, that's where certain classes come in.....

He said mental: that meands armor messes up mental triggers. He didn't say muscle triggers.
You literally have trouble thinking while wearing armor he implied.

I have no clue how that makes sense.

[Yuki Akuma]

The mnemonic gestures used by wizards are very precise, obviously.

[Lycanthromancer]

Give me an hour with you and we'll make plenty of music moving around.

Oh baby.

...Wait. I always assumed you were a girl...

[AstralFire]

...Wait. I always assumed you were a girl...

Transgender ftw. Though that was a bit left-field of a response.

[Alleine]

Give me an hour with you and we'll make plenty of music moving around.

Oh baby.

So we're going into the BoEF now? Fun times.

[lesser_minion]

How does armor block mental triggers? I'd understand if magical armor did, but mundane?

I have to admit, I find ASF bizarre.

Warhammer explained it as "both getting in the way of his conjurations and setting up magical disharmony". The only functional armour in the game was made of metal, apart from shields, so that worked pretty well as an explanation.

Personally, I either rule that all spellcasters suffer ASF in metal armour (but not padded, leather, or dragonhide), or that all spellcasters suffer ASF in armour in which they aren't proficient (and still get a break for padded and leather armour).

[Prime32]

I've seen at least one place justify it as "armour blocks the magical energy from getting in". Druids have some of this going on, what with worked metal armour apparently blocking nature (same reason fey are vulnerable to iron).

[lightningcat]

I see nothing wrong with giving ASF to unproficient armor use to all casters, including psions.

[shadow_archmagi]

I see nothing wrong with giving ASF to unproficient armor use to all casters, including psions.

To be honest I'm not really sure psions casting in full plate is all that amazing and wonderful that they need a nerf.

I'd let everyone cast wearing armor, to be honest.

[PairO'Dice Lost]

I would just like to point out one thing, as I do in every Vancian vs. psionics thread I come across:

Vancian magic originates from the Dying Earth series which, as one might guess from the title, has a post-apocalyptic setting. Magic in that series comes from a bunch of semi-sentient spells in the far future that resemble primitive AIs just as much as they do primitive spirits--and people say psionics is too sci-fi...? Naming conventions do not a genre make; Vancian magic's telekinesis, clairvoyance, pyrotechnics, and Rary's mnemonic enhancer (and more) are just as Greek-sounding and pseudoscience-y as psionics' temporal acceleration, matter agitation, synesthete, and decerebrate (and more).

Disliking the flavor of psionics is just fine and dandy (I personally think they overdid the whole crystal fetish in 3.5 psionics), but saying it's "too sci-fi" is like calling ToB "too anime" (and we are not going to get into that here, are we?) in that it may sound like a perfect encapsulation of your arguments to you, but to a third party (A) it isn't an accurate descriptor and (B) it stops discussion because it's hard to quantify what makes it "too X" accurately.

[Greenish]

I see nothing wrong with giving ASF to unproficient armor use to all casters, including psions.

Psions can manifest their powers while bound and gagged (or paralyzed etc.), how is wearing armour going to bother them?

[lightningcat]

To be honest I'm not really sure psions casting in full plate is all that amazing and wonderful that they need a nerf.

I'd let everyone cast wearing armor, to be honest.

Giving the unproficient ASF no more gimps them then applying the Armor Check Penalty to attack rolls. If they want to cast wearing armor, they spend the feats.

Psions can manifest their powers while bound and gagged (or paralyzed etc.), how is wearing armour going to bother them?

A fact that just annoys me. That seems so wrong.

[Lycanthromancer]

Giving the unproficient ASF no more gimps them then applying the Armor Check Penalty to attack rolls. If they want to cast wearing armor, they spend the feats.



A fact that just annoys me. That seems so wrong.

Is having a rope tying your hands and your mouth full preventing you from thinking?

Some people actually like that kind of thing.

Seriously, there are lots of casters that can do magic while in armor. Take divine casters, for instance. Or casters that have spells without somatic components.

Just give all casters the ability to cast in armor and be done with it.

Also, wizards can cast while bound and gagged too. They just need the right spells and/or feats.

[Coidzor]

Giving the unproficient ASF no more gimps them then applying the Armor Check Penalty to attack rolls. If they want to cast wearing armor, they spend the feats.

So you force divine casters to take Arcane Spell Failure?

[PersonMan]

So you force divine casters to take Arcane Spell Failure?

Don't most(or all) of them get armor proficiencies? So that wouldn't make a difference really...

[Coidzor]

Not all levels of it though.

And the fact that it's, I dunno, Arcane spell failure.

It is an amusingly silly thing to me.

[Lycanthromancer]

Not all levels of it though.

And the fact that it's, I dunno, Arcane spell failure.

It is an amusingly silly thing to me.

But not all arcane spellcasters have arcane spell failure.

Just like psionicists don't have arcane spell failure.

Mostly because they're neither arcane, nor do they cast spells.

And it wouldn't apply anyway, because it only applies to spells with somatic components.

Which psionics doesn't have.

[PersonMan]

And it wouldn't apply anyway, because it only applies to spells with somatic components.

Which psionics doesn't have.

Yes, it does. Cellular movement inside the brain is somatic, and a component of psionics.

On a more serious note, I agree.

Not all levels of it though.

And the fact that it's, I dunno, Arcane spell failure.

It is an amusingly silly thing to me.

Well, there's divine metamagic.

Nobody wants the divine casters to be left out of the fun of arcane spell failure!

[The Big Dice]

<snip> psionicists <snip>

That word is reason enough to want to stay the heck away from psi powers. Though this song is a good reason to think they're cool.

Personally, my opinion on psi in RPGs is heavily coloured by Julian May's Saga of the Exiles. In those books, psionics are called metapsychic abilities, are heavily codified, and used six million years in the past by sorta space elves and kinda space dwarfs. Who have a crazy battle religion and are also heavily based on Celtic mythology. With humans stuck in the middle, of course.

And the whole thing feels like magic, even though it isn't magic at all.

And the way psionics act like magic, do many of the same things as magic, but aren't magical is why I don't feel it belongs in the same setting as magic.

It's got nothing to do with rules, book keeping or any of that stuff. It's simply because it doesn't feel right in the same way as blasting diminished arpeggios over a low tempo quick change 8 bar blues doesn't feel right.

[Yuki Akuma]

Psionic powers are magical. They don't work in dead magic zones.

[Touchy]

Psionic powers are magical. They don't work in dead magic zones.

If the psionic-magic transparency rule is in effect.