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    Default The Formthief [3.5 Spellthief Prestige Class, PEACH]

    Hey all! I’m taking my first try at PrC homebrewing, and posting it! Thank you for any comments and thoughts – I hope you all like it.

    The Formthief



    What a clever trick. Mind if I try it?

    Inspiration:
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    I’ve always wanted a way to steal supernatural abilities, and the Hellbreaker from Fiendish Codex II showed me a way. However, it’s a very niche PrC. So I decided to make another PrC for spellthieves that let them steal more from their opponents. After all, such a cool class ideawise deserves the support to make it awesome. Hopefully I’m not the only person on earth who likes spellthieves.


    Many Spellthieves choose to specialize in stealing spells only. However, a select few choose to train themselves in the art of becoming their foe – stealing their abilities from them, and eventually taking their form for themselves.

    BECOMING A CLASS NAME
    The main way to become a Formthief, and the easiest, is to be a spellthief. However, some rogues and other classes can qualify by virtue of the Hellbreaker prestige class, from Fiendish Codex II.

    ENTRY REQUIREMENTS
    Skill Ranks: Knowledge (arcane) 6 ranks, Spellcraft 8 ranks
    Special: Sneak Attack +2d6, Steal Spell-Like Ability

    Class Skills
    The Class Name's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Bluff (Cha), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Disable Device (Int), Escape Artist (Dex), Gather Information (Cha), Hide (Dex), Knowledge (arcana) (Int), Knowledge (local) (Int), Move Silently (Dex), Search (Int), Spellcraft (Int), Spot (Wis), Tumble (Dex), and Use Magic Device (Cha).
    Skills Points at Each Level: 4 + int

    Hit Dice: d6

    The Formthief
    {table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special
    1st|
    +0
    |
    +2
    |
    +0
    |
    +2
    |Steal Spell, Steal Attribute
    2nd|
    +1
    |
    +3
    |
    +0
    |
    +3
    | Steal Damage Reduction
    3rd|
    +2
    |
    +3
    |
    +1
    |
    +3
    | Steal Supernatural Ability
    4th|
    +3
    |
    +4
    |
    +1
    |
    +4
    | Steal Extraordinary Ability
    5th|
    +3
    |
    +4
    |
    +1
    |
    +4
    |Steal Form[/table]

    Steal Spell (Su): A Formthief’s class level stacks with his spellthief levels, if he has any, for the purpose of determining the maximum level of spell he can steal.

    Steal Attribute (Su): A Formthief who successfully strikes an opponent with a sneak attack can choose to forgo dealing 2d6 of the sneak attack damage and instead siphon off a portion of the target’s self. If he does, the target takes a penalty equal to the Formthief’s class level to an ability score of the Formthief’s choice. In addition, the Formthief gains an equal bonus on the same ability. This ability lasts for 1 minute, and may only be used on a target once per ability score – a Formthief cannot steal a creature’s strength twice to double the normal penalty.

    Steal Damage Reduction (Su): A Formthief who successfully strikes an opponent with a sneak attack can choose to forgo dealing 2d6 of the sneak attack damage and instead steal the creature’s natural protection. If he does, one of the target’s damage reductions is reduced by the Formthief’s class level, chosen randomly unless the Formthief specifies one. If the target’s damage reduction is lowered in this way, the Formthief gains Damage reduction equal to his class level, bypassed in the same way as the lowered resistance. This ability lasts for 1 minute, and may only be used on a target once at a time – attempting to steal a creature’s damage reduction more than once will cause the previous damage reduction stolen to return to the creature, and reset the current duration.

    Steal Supernatural Ability (Su): This ability functions like the steal spell-like ability class feature, only targeting supernatural abilities. While in possession of a supernatural ability, you cannot use steal supernatural ability until you lose access to the stolen ability (by discharging it or after 1 minute, whichever comes first).

    Steal Extraordinary Ability (Su): This ability functions like the steal spell-like ability class feature, only targeting extraordinary abilities. While in possession of a stolen extraordinary ability, you cannot use steal extraordinary ability until you lose access to the stolen ability (by discharging it or after 1 minute, whichever comes first).

    Steal Form (Su): A Formthief who successfully strikes an opponent with a sneak attack can choose to forgo dealing 2d6 of the sneak attack damage and instead steal the creature’s form itself. The target is turned into formthief’s race, and the Formthief is turned into the target’s race. This ability functions as the Polymorph Any Object spell, except it allows no save, is dismissible at will by the Formthief, and has a duration of 1 minute. A Formthief can only steal one creature’s form at a time – while this ability is in effect, the Formthief cannot use the Steal Form ability.


    Of course, any thoughts are appreciated!

    (Image courtesy of http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/spotlight_rules1.jpg)
    Last edited by Rauthiss; 2010-04-02 at 11:52 PM.
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  2. - Top - End - #2
    Orc in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: The Formthief [3.5 Spellthief Prestige Class, PEACH]

    Seems like he'd be a devil when he got you flanked

    Seriously, seems like a great idea. Hm.... If you're basically borrowing the ability/form/et cetera, what happens when the creature dies?
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    If the above post was written any time between 4AM and noon Mountain Time (10:00-20:00 GMT), it was probably written while I ought to have been sleeping. So, sorry. Unless an apology isn't necessary and whatever I wrote was awesome. In that case, you're welcome.

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    Default Re: The Formthief [3.5 Spellthief Prestige Class, PEACH]

    Thank you for the compliments. :3

    As for the creature's death, It will be dealt with the same way as other stealing abilities - steal spell, for instance. You retain the ability until it's normal duration runs out.
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    Default Re: The Formthief [3.5 Spellthief Prestige Class, PEACH]

    Bumping for postholiday comments.
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    Good question

    Default Re: The Formthief [3.5 Spellthief Prestige Class, PEACH]

    Hm, simple and elegant approach. No fancy stuff, just stealing abilities. I like it myself.
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    Default Re: The Formthief [3.5 Spellthief Prestige Class, PEACH]

    I love the idea, but there are a couple of problems.

    The first is extremely large enemies. If you're fighting an Ancient Red Wyrm Dragon, what would happen after stealing its form? Would you become an enormous wall of scales, capable of smashing the confused red-tinged human? Or would you become a medium sized dragon and leave the dragon as a very large but flightless anthropomorph? Do you gain all of the abilities granted by the form, i.e. Flight and Crush and so forth? And these are all raised by one specific enemy. I'm sure if I could go through the catalog, there'd be many others, some worse re: the balance and rules.

    In light of this, why not alter the ability to simply steal the enemy's type? If it's a dragon, you can become a dragon, gaining natural armor and wings but not stealing the specific form unless it's a member of the same type (i.e. small-to-large humanoid.) Keeps size a non-issue and preserves the flavor. for enemies' whose types are stolen, let them keep their overall form, but give them a simple debuff and have them treated as the Formthief's type for all effects (Charm Person anyone?) This prevents absurdities like having wings the size of sails going poof and reappearing on the 'thief's shoulders, just because he stabbed a dragon in the kneecap.

    Another issue is the BAB. You're changing the core concept from a simple mojo-thief to a gish-thief. DR theft, attribute stealing and non-spell abilities each move you closer to the front line. Why not just push the BAB and HD higher and drop the Will save? Adding a couple of proficiencies might help as well, but they're not necessary.

    Finally, have you considered SR stealing? I can't remember if it's a part of the spell thief base class or not. If it isn't, I think this class could benefit from it.
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    Default Re: The Formthief [3.5 Spellthief Prestige Class, PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by thegurullamen View Post
    I love the idea, but there are a couple of problems.
    Thank you... I think.

    Quote Originally Posted by thegurullamen View Post
    The first is extremely large enemies. If you're fighting an Ancient Red Wyrm Dragon, what would happen after stealing its form? Would you become an enormous wall of scales, capable of smashing the confused red-tinged human? Or would you become a medium sized dragon and leave the dragon as a very large but flightless anthropomorph? Do you gain all of the abilities granted by the form, i.e. Flight and Crush and so forth? And these are all raised by one specific enemy. I'm sure if I could go through the catalog, there'd be many others, some worse re: the balance and rules.
    The ability is as the spell Polymorph Any Object - The only difference is the activation and the duration. Yes, you gain all abilities.

    Quote Originally Posted by thegurullamen View Post
    In light of this, why not alter the ability to simply steal the enemy's type? If it's a dragon, you can become a dragon, gaining natural armor and wings but not stealing the specific form unless it's a member of the same type (i.e. small-to-large humanoid.) Keeps size a non-issue and preserves the flavor. for enemies' whose types are stolen, let them keep their overall form, but give them a simple debuff and have them treated as the Formthief's type for all effects (Charm Person anyone?) This prevents absurdities like having wings the size of sails going poof and reappearing on the 'thief's shoulders, just because he stabbed a dragon in the kneecap.
    This is a nice ability, but I'm not quite sure that it's powerful enough. Many of the more useful types such as elemental or construct cannot be sneak attacked. At the same time, your example provides a nice example of the benefits of the ability. I'm honestly not quite sure.

    Quote Originally Posted by thegurullamen View Post
    Another issue is the BAB. You're changing the core concept from a simple mojo-thief to a gish-thief. DR theft, attribute stealing and non-spell abilities each move you closer to the front line. Why not just push the BAB and HD higher and drop the Will save? Adding a couple of proficiencies might help as well, but they're not necessary.
    You bring up a good point. I'll probably follow through with exactly the changes you suggested, but I think I'll keep the will save, mainly because if one is familiar with magic abilities, one can resist them.

    Quote Originally Posted by thegurullamen View Post
    Finally, have you considered SR stealing? I can't remember if it's a part of the spell thief base class or not. If it isn't, I think this class could benefit from it.
    I believe it is gained at 15th level spellthief, allowing a spellthief to be able to steal everything possible while taking the class.

    Thank you for your thoughts!
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    Default Re: The Formthief [3.5 Spellthief Prestige Class, PEACH]

    I think Steal Form is a little TOO strong at the moment, honestly. It's not insanely difficult to land a single Sneak Attack on a dangerous opponent. Appropriate buffs make it absolutely possible. Even with some of the 'immune' types you list, there are workarounds that allow you Sneak Attack them. So landing one attack - with no save or SR allowed - lets you trade in 7 damage for knocking down 90% of all non-humanoid defenses in one shot. (Unless I'm misreading the ability here.) With no save, you're stripping away Natural Armor, physical stats, size, movement modes... it renders any purely or mostly physical threat almost completely helpless. I'd say either go with thegurullamen's idea or even just let the Formthief take the enemy's form without stripping it from the target - that's a plenty potent capstone all by itself, and could be given broader application by making the Formthief an exact duplicate of the target to allow for espionage-style uses.

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    Default Re: The Formthief [3.5 Spellthief Prestige Class, PEACH]

    Steal Form is way too powerful. you severely weaken your foe by turning them into a CR 1/2 or something like that, and you become a huge dragon/pit fiend/solar with class levels in spellthief. thats huge. it should require that you have stolen a certain amount of their abilities already, so you don't destroy every encounter immediately.

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    Default Re: The Formthief [3.5 Spellthief Prestige Class, PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Lapak View Post
    ...just let the Formthief take the enemy's form without stripping it from the target - that's a plenty potent capstone all by itself, and could be given broader application by making the Formthief an exact duplicate of the target to allow for espionage-style uses.
    I like this idea. And I like the class. This will be bookmarked for later use.
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    Default Re: The Formthief [3.5 Spellthief Prestige Class, PEACH]

    This class, is wicked awesome, and flavorful to boot. Well done, sir!

    However, I feel like it's a little lacking. Maybe throwing in a couple d6s of sneak attack? At 2nd and 4th level, perhaps? It's just that while he can steal capabilities from his opponent, he can't really do much himself. And part of the niceness of the spellthief's stealing is that he's still doing damage while he does it.
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