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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Geiger Counter's Avatar

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    Default Manageering skills

    How can I use diplomacy, intimidate and sense motive to improve the quality of work performed by any form of labour (including. but not limited to slaves).

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    DwarfBarbarianGuy

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    Default Re: Manageering skills

    Well, the former two could be used to 'inspire' better work out of your serfs/peasants/slaves, and Sense Motive could be used to fire the ones who plan to goof around?

    Depends on whether the DM would allow it, really. Also, not sure if the first half would be stepping on the toes of the bard a bit.
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    Default Re: Manageering skills

    specifically,
    Using diplomacy you would convince your employees that its in their best interest that doing their best is important for everyones benefit. You would effectively find something thats important to them, then use that information to futher benefit your goal. Diplomacy is a two way street, and generally by openning communication up from them, you have to do the same.

    Using Intimidate is more of the route of forcing people to work for you, maybe you're a big intimidating boss, maybe you hold something important to them over their heads, such as money, food, water, housing, safety, or family.

    Using sense motive is more of a support role to the other two. You would sense whats important to them, how to best entice them, etc. you would then use this information to determine by what means you could motivate them best.

    Lets also not forget that bluff is important, its not uncommon for employers to lie to their employees, and you would need bluff for that.

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    Default Re: Manageering skills

    How would pushing an employee or troop work, as in the handle animal ability of the same name?

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    Default Re: Manageering skills

    I would imagine such effects would only apply to mass groups as theres already a system designed for one on ones, but then, that would be approaching the effects of inspire quite closely.

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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Manageering skills

    Unless you're wanting to create some new system for utilizing social skills, this really belongs in the Roleplaying Games forum. I'll gladly drop a PM to a mod to move this if you'd like.

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    Default Re: Manageering skills

    Quote Originally Posted by Lappy9000 View Post
    Unless you're wanting to create some new system for utilizing social skills, this really belongs in the Roleplaying Games forum. I'll gladly drop a PM to a mod to move this if you'd like.
    As this pertains to creating new rules your summation that this thread is ilcategorized is incorrect.

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    Default Re: Manageering skills

    Quote Originally Posted by Geiger Counter View Post
    As this pertains to creating new rules your summation that this thread is ilcategorized is incorrect.
    I'm in agreement with Lappy. These uses of the skills are basically "invisible uses," if you will. If you asked a DM, in other words, they'd probably let you do something with that.

    That's just my opinion, however.
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    Default Re: Manageering skills

    Quote Originally Posted by Geiger Counter View Post
    How can I use diplomacy, intimidate and sense motive to improve the quality of work performed by any form of labour (including. but not limited to slaves).
    The answer is not to use any of those. Management falls under Profession or Craft:

    Check

    You can practice your trade and make a decent living, earning about half your Profession check result in gold pieces per week of dedicated work. You know how to use the tools of your trade, how to perform the profession’s daily tasks, how to supervise helpers, and how to handle common problems.
    You can practice your trade and make a decent living, earning about half your check result in gold pieces per week of dedicated work. You know how to use the tools of your trade, how to perform the craft’s daily tasks, how to supervise untrained helpers, and how to handle common problems. (Untrained laborers and assistants earn an average of 1 silver piece per day.)

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    From my experiences I was rarely supervised by anyone with experience in my field. They just had a degree in management. Also If social skills cannot improve the productivity of a laborer than aristocrats are screwed and would quickly loose all their money to experts.

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    Default Re: Manageering skills

    Quote Originally Posted by Geiger Counter View Post
    From my experiences I was rarely supervised by anyone with experience in my field. They just had a degree in management. Also If social skills cannot improve the productivity of a laborer than aristocrats are screwed and would quickly loose all their money to experts.
    Not necessarily. Aristocrats are a higher rank almost automatically. That makes them important.

    Think of it this way: NPCs don't know their "stats" and "skill points." They might know they're pretty good at something...but that doesn't measure up in overthrowing nobility.
    Last edited by Temotei; 2010-04-04 at 12:49 AM.
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    Default Re: Manageering skills

    Quote Originally Posted by Geiger Counter View Post
    From my experiences I was rarely supervised by anyone with experience in my field. They just had a degree in management. Also If social skills cannot improve the productivity of a laborer than aristocrats are screwed and would quickly loose all their money to experts.
    A general all-purpose manager would have ranks in Profession (Manager). Aristocrats for the most part probably only own their business ventures and delegate responsibility. They don't have to have ranks in profession or craft, they hire someone with those skills to supervise for them. Paris Hilton for instance doesn't have ranks in Craft (Perfume) just because she has a perfume.

    Also, many if not most aristocrats just own land and tax their peasants.
    Last edited by Lysander; 2010-04-04 at 01:05 AM.

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    Default Re: Manageering skills

    I'm not sure exactly where people are going, but what I want to be able to do is use social skills to improve employee performance. IRL Management (the ones who deal with people, not so much with accountants and economists) are usually more reliant on their social skills than anything they learned in business school, and that's what I need stats for. That's it and nothing else.

    Also I tend to use a lot of eberron stuff and they have a relatively modern economy.
    Last edited by Geiger Counter; 2010-04-04 at 01:17 AM.

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    Default Re: Manageering skills

    Quote Originally Posted by Geiger Counter View Post
    I'm not sure exactly where people are going, but what I want to be able to do is use social skills to improve employee performance. IRL Management (the ones who deal with people, not so much with accountants and economists) are usually more reliant on their social skills than anything they learned in business school, and that's what I need stats for. That's it and nothing else.

    Also I tend to use a lot of eberron stuff and they have a relatively modern economy.
    Thing, what you are asking for is already covered by the Profession skill.

    I suspect you want something like: Make a DC 15 Diplomacy check. If you succeed, productivity goes up 10%. I wouldn't use it though.

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    Default Re: Manageering skills

    Quote Originally Posted by Ashtagon View Post
    Thing, what you are asking for is already covered by the Profession skill.

    I suspect you want something like: Make a DC 15 Diplomacy check. If you succeed, productivity goes up 10%. I wouldn't use it though.
    By your logic we shouldn't have intimidate because diplomacy exists.
    Or str checks when we have escape artist.
    Or orb spells when we have ray spells.
    Last edited by Geiger Counter; 2010-04-04 at 01:30 AM.

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    Default Re: Manageering skills

    Yes we should.

    Strength checks and Escape Artist checks are accomplishing the same meta-task (get out of the bindings), but doing them in different methods (break them vs. slip out of them).

    Your meta-task is "make the peons work harder", but you haven't proposed a different method that isn't covered by the Profession skill.

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    Default Re: Manageering skills

    Quote Originally Posted by Geiger Counter View Post
    From my experiences I was rarely supervised by anyone with experience in my field. They just had a degree in management. Also If social skills cannot improve the productivity of a laborer than aristocrats are screwed and would quickly loose all their money to experts.
    Not true. Ever heard of the concept of nobility? Aristocrats take entirely from that.

    In a more modernized game, they'd be wealthy owners and businessmen, which is where logically most of their skills would go - so like, diplomacy, knowledge: local, gather information (to learn the news of the market, etc.).

    Also a jack of all trades expert isn't always what you are looking for when you straight need lots of people to do something.

    Experts are great for trouble shooting (solving every problem as it approaches) that doesn't involve risking your life in a dungeon or doing otherwise hard core things that a rogue does.

    Quote Originally Posted by Geiger Counter View Post
    I'm not sure exactly where people are going, but what I want to be able to do is use social skills to improve employee performance. IRL Management (the ones who deal with people, not so much with accountants and economists) are usually more reliant on their social skills than anything they learned in business school, and that's what I need stats for. That's it and nothing else.

    Also I tend to use a lot of eberron stuff and they have a relatively modern economy.
    Perform (oratory) to give a rousing seminar speech? Diplomacy can also be used for more then improving attitude or convincing people to do something - it can also be used to make people listen to you (to an extent).

    If you want to improve morale and create morale bonuses (there's not much in the way of morale modifiers in 3.5ed), you might have to combine it with profession manager or a new feat.

    Employees listen to people because that person presents information to them in a way that they believe is logical. To really get employees on your side, you have to see yourself in their shoes. That takes WISDOM, not CHARISMA. Hence, a profession check.

    Charisma on the other hand is for presenting yourself in a way that doesn't weird people out or fear you. With charisma, reputation also builds more quickly, hence why good leaders have high charisma.

    Finally, I'd like to say what they learned in business school is covered entirely by knowledge - so likely knowledge (local; by abstraction, the economy), knowledge (nobility; which by great abstraction, study of the rich and how their position affects others, etc.), etc.

    Also, profession (business management) or profession (entrepreneur).

    Also some kind of education perk could give them a conditional bonus to knowledge checks aimed at certain avenues at GM discretion.

    Something like bardic lore on the other hand is much more generalized since it covers pretty much everything that a bard has heard in their travels.
    Last edited by imp_fireball; 2010-04-04 at 05:11 AM.

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