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  1. - Top - End - #91
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    Default Re: Kratos vs The Norse Pantheon

    Quote Originally Posted by EleventhHour View Post
    By starring in a game that didn't take mythology classes and are just looking for ever more hyped kills to manage, even when there's no possible way it should have happened.
    There is a much easier way.

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    Default Re: Kratos vs The Norse Pantheon

    Quote Originally Posted by EleventhHour View Post
    By starring in a game that didn't take mythology classes and are just looking for ever more hyped kills to manage, even when there's no possible way it should have happened.
    Yes. You are right. It is impossible to kill Fate. However, it is also impossible for the Norse Gods to exist. Both sides are pretty damn impossible. Arguing that the feats of one side is impossible is meaningless.
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    Default Re: Kratos vs The Norse Pantheon

    The GoW games are very good, and worth playing. It's not all over-the-top steroid rage.

    Kratos really does have some of the Aristotelian qualities of a tragic Greek hero. His death is imminent, and he doesn't want to die, so he makes a bad deal to keep living. Then he gets drunk with power, and in one of those moments, inadvertantly kills his wife and child. At that point, the rage against the gods begins.

    If nothing else, the level where he has to defend his family, and can hug them to transfer some of his life to them, shows that he isn't all blood and rage. Over time, characters (especially on the internet) just turn into one-dimensional exaggerations of themselves.

  4. - Top - End - #94
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    Default Re: Kratos vs The Norse Pantheon

    Since my earlier post was ignored, I'll come at this from a different angle;

    The greek gods as portrayed in the God of War games are hugely underpowered. Don't bother trying to give an example of some awesome thing that happened to prove this to be untrue, because its obvious.

    First of all there's the huge dip in intelligence shown by almost all the greek gods. Sure, they were incestuous, alcoholic and selfish but they were also incredibly devious, and I find the idea of them being outsmarted by a guy who could fill the pacific ocean with a days worth of spittle somewhat dubious.

    Second, many of you have been using the mythical exploits and feats of the gods as a yardstick with which to say; 'hey look! if Zeus could do this in the legends, and Kratos killed him, well then Kratos can do anything!' No. For one thing, they're different version of the same character with drastically different levels of power.

    If the GoW version of Zeus could blow aside huge boulders with a small breath then why didn't he send Kratos flying to the other side of Greece every time he came within a mile of Olympus?

    Therefore the distinction has to made whether the Norse gods have been depowered to the same degree as the greek gods or whether they are at the level of power as depicted in legend?

    Even if they were depowered, my answer would still be Norse gods because of Loki, Thor, Odin (who knows the seven spells/runes) and for the last time VIDAR, the most underrated badass in the history of badassses.

  5. - Top - End - #95
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    Default Re: Kratos vs The Norse Pantheon

    Quote Originally Posted by Deca View Post
    Yes. You are right. It is impossible to kill Fate. However, it is also impossible for the Norse Gods to exist. Both sides are pretty damn impossible. Arguing that the feats of one side is impossible is meaningless.
    This is like saying that comparing the NX-01:Enterprise to a Shuttlepod is meaningless as both are impossible. From the in-universe evidence, it is obvious who would triumph.
    In a system where the Norse Gods exist, it is impossible to kill the Fates. Greek and Norse Gods can die. Pan is dead, and Balder was killed by mistletoe. This is a consistent idiom in each mythology. But, another consistent idiom is not even the Gods challenge the Fates with impunity.
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  6. - Top - End - #96
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    Default Re: Kratos vs The Norse Pantheon

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravens_cry View Post
    This is like saying that comparing the NX-01:Enterprise to a Shuttlepod is meaningless as both are impossible. From the in-universe evidence, it is obvious who would triumph.
    In a system where the Norse Gods exist, it is impossible to kill the Fates. Greek and Norse Gods can die. Pan is dead, and Balder was killed by mistletoe. This is a consistent idiom in each mythology. But, another consistent idiom is not even the Gods challenge the Fates with impunity.
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    Default Re: Kratos vs The Norse Pantheon

    Just got God of War 3! Even though I love the badassness of Kratos in the way he just kills everything I still have to side with the Norse Gods, it would be a close fight but their uberness beats him.

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    Default Re: Kratos vs The Norse Pantheon

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravens_cry View Post
    This is like saying that comparing the NX-01:Enterprise to a Shuttlepod is meaningless as both are impossible. From the in-universe evidence, it is obvious who would triumph.
    In a system where the Norse Gods exist, it is impossible to kill the Fates. Greek and Norse Gods can die. Pan is dead, and Balder was killed by mistletoe. This is a consistent idiom in each mythology. But, another consistent idiom is not even the Gods challenge the Fates with impunity.
    Except the Greek Fates can't be killed either according to the
    ythology, and Kratos still kills them. He is more than capable of destroying invincible things.

  9. - Top - End - #99
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    Default Re: Kratos vs The Norse Pantheon

    Quote Originally Posted by Milskidasith View Post
    Except the Greek Fates can't be killed either according to the
    ythology, and Kratos still kills them. He is more than capable of destroying invincible things.
    This suggests to me that the GoW Greek Gods are not as powerful as the mythological Greek Gods, which is consistent with what has been stated thus far.

    Unless, of course, Kratos has spiral power or something that allows him to go beyond the impossible.
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    Default Re: Kratos vs The Norse Pantheon

    Quote Originally Posted by kpenguin View Post
    You know, the more memetic badass Kratos gets the more off-put I am to playing the GoW series. I dunno why.
    I was in the same boat as you. Give GoW1 a try. The graphics and gameplay are stunning, and nearly everyone who gets killed has it coming to them. It's pretty much as gory as the later Prince of Persia games except with a better interface.

    Frankly, I thought that GoW2 was a turn-off. They ran out of epic monsters for you to kill, so they started setting you on the classical heroes, and I just didn't get the same charge out of eviscerating Perseus and Theseus as I did from Medusa and Hydra. But it sure stays pretty. I'm leaning against GoW3 after reading over the plot, but since it'll still be a while before a buy a modern-gen console I won't have to really worry about it for a while.

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    Default Re: Kratos vs The Norse Pantheon

    Quote Originally Posted by Tim the Great View Post
    The greek gods as portrayed in the God of War games are hugely underpowered. Don't bother trying to give an example of some awesome thing that happened to prove this to be untrue, because its obvious.
    Yes, I am entirely aware of this. I have mostly been trying to argue against statements such as
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyouhen
    It's more of a power comparison assuming Kratos is more powerful than the Greek gods and where that puts him against the Norse gods.
    I don't think that Greek -> Norse is a step up. Rather the opposite.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tim the Great
    Therefore the distinction has to made whether the Norse gods have been depowered to the same degree as the greek gods or whether they are at the level of power as depicted in legend?

    Even if they were depowered, my answer would still be Norse gods because of Loki, Thor, Odin (who knows the seven spells/runes) and for the last time VIDAR, the most underrated badass in the history of badassses.
    I see three possibilities.

    1. Greek gods were acting at mythical power and Kratos won because he could resist everything they could throw at him. In such a case, I know of no sufficiently impressive feats on behalf of the Norse gods to say that they could overcome him (not with any regularity, at least). Perhaps Loki might trick him into a death-trap, or perhaps Jormangund's fumes will overcome him, or perhaps Odin's magical spells will prove too strong for Kratos's magical gear. But I see Kratos as winning much more often than he loses.

    2. Greek gods down-powered and Norse gods comparably down-powered. Again, I see nothing suggesting that Kratos doesn't win.

    3. Greek gods down-powered and Norse gods not down-powered. Norse gods take it. I see no reason to believe that Kratos can survive earth-shattering blows, or overcome Odin's defenses, or whatever.


    I don't quite get your fascination with Vidarr - he killed Fenris, has really thick shoes, and survived Surtr's fires, but otherwise is only "nearly as strong as Thor." If we were to accept that Kratos could take Thor, I see no reason why he couldn't take Vidarr.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravens_Cry
    Greek and Norse Gods can die. Pan is dead, and Balder was killed by mistletoe.
    When did Pan die? As far as I can recall, the Greek gods were deathless (bar Uranus, I suppose, and he wasn't really a god).
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    Default Re: Kratos vs The Norse Pantheon

    Quote Originally Posted by Thane of Fife View Post
    When did Pan die? As far as I can recall, the Greek gods were deathless (bar Uranus, I suppose, and he wasn't really a god).
    Well..............
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    Default Re: Kratos vs The Norse Pantheon

    Quote Originally Posted by Thane of Fife View Post
    I don't quite get your fascination with Vidarr - he killed Fenris, has really thick shoes, and survived Surtr's fires, but otherwise is only "nearly as strong as Thor." If we were to accept that Kratos could take Thor, I see no reason why he couldn't take Vidarr.
    Ok, I'll admit I have an unhealthy fascination with Vidar, but my main point in referencing him was the fact that a few people have mentioned that if the norse gods could not best Kratos then the Fenris wolf might be a worthy foe therefore if Kratos might struggle against Fenris then the God who ripped him apart with his bare hands would surely have a chance at besting him. This is of course purely conjecture.

    Nevertheless, I still believe that the sheer number of war oriented norse gods each with their own specialty, would in my opinion undoubtedly either wear down the 'god of war' to the point that he could be defeated by one of the few remaining gods after his rampage, or simply kick his ass in the first place.

  14. - Top - End - #104
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    Default Re: Kratos vs The Norse Pantheon

    Quote Originally Posted by Thane of Fife View Post
    Well, in Norse mythology, the Sun and Moon are sparks from Muspellheim, so I don't see anything too impressive about Fenris or his children consuming them (other than some serious heat resistance, perhaps).
    The fact that they ate it isn't impressive enough? The sheer scale required to consume a planetary body like the sun is ridiculous.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thane of Fife View Post
    Atlas bears the heavens perpetually, Zeus destroyed most of the Gigantes (some were killed by other gods).
    Granted, but I do not believe Kratos kills Atlas. Further: Zeus destroying the Gigantes does not compare to Thor single-handedly wrestling and slaying a serpent the size of the world. Sure, he was so filled with poison afterwards that even moss wouldn't grow on his grave... But still, the issue is the scales presented.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thane of Fife View Post
    As for Freyr, other than killing one giant with an antler and losing his magic sword, what did he ever do?
    Other than being skilled enough to duel and slay a giant with a deer antler without being wounded... Freyr is, according to the Prose Edda, invincible with his sword. Not simply 'very good', but invincible. Freyr could be armless, legless, toothless, blind and deaf and he'll still win if he has that sword.

    Kratos cannot compare to that, nor could even the mythological version Ares the Greek God of War. The Greek Gods are incredibly powerful, but they don't play in the leagues that Norse Gods do(world-sized enemies, consuming celestial bodies, being invincible, drinking the ocean).

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    Default Re: Kratos vs The Norse Pantheon

    Quote Originally Posted by ZeroNumerous View Post
    Kratos cannot compare to that, nor could even the mythological version Ares the Greek God of War. The Greek Gods are incredibly powerful, but they don't play in the leagues that Norse Gods do(world-sized enemies, consuming celestial bodies, being invincible, drinking the ocean).
    Couldn't have put it better myself. Even if we make the very unlikely assumption that the Greek Gods in GoW are at their mythical level of power, the norse gods still surpass them in sheer power and badassery.

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    Default Re: Kratos vs The Norse Pantheon

    Quote Originally Posted by Graymayre View Post
    WOOOOoooo

    Poseiden is the ocean.

    Odin gets killed by a wolf, A WOLF.

    (speaking of which, an awesome fight would be Fenrir and Kratos. I can definitely see both of them being a challenge for each other)
    Yes, by a wolf whose top jaw reaches the highest heavens, and lower jaw reaches the depths of hell due to his largeness, and who in all likelihood could DRINK the ocean. Odin > Poseidon.
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    Default Re: Kratos vs The Norse Pantheon

    Also: The greek gods are very focused on being gods of things.

    That is, if you're the greek god of dance, you're going to spend all your time dancing. If you fight, it's a dance fight.

    If you're the norse god of dance, then it means you're a norse god who can strangle mountains to death and happens to dabble in dancing, too.
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    Default Re: Kratos vs The Norse Pantheon

    Quote Originally Posted by Tim the Great View Post
    Couldn't have put it better myself. Even if we make the very unlikely assumption that the Greek Gods in GoW are at their mythical level of power, the norse gods still surpass them in sheer power and badassery.
    Yup.

    Thor's little incident with drinking a big part of the ocean?

    He also wrestled old age to one knee, lifted a large portion of the serpent that circles the world, and punched huge dents in a hill when doing a "Hello, McFly" wakeup.

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    Default Re: Kratos vs The Norse Pantheon

    Sorry, Kratos ain't taking down Thor.

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    Question Re: Kratos vs The Norse Pantheon

    Has a consensus been reached already? By page 4?
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    Default Re: Kratos vs The Norse Pantheon

    If GOW4 used the Norse Pantheon, it would hard to be controller breaking hard or it's a LIE! Support group hard.

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    Default Re: Kratos vs The Norse Pantheon

    I would say that if the fate of Ragnarok is removed or passible of alteration, then Kratos has one fighting chance. But he would be as much average there. On the other side, maybe the nordic gods could reunite him with his family, and he would have at least some peace. Or maybe someone would tell him to go back in time and snagg his family souls to stay with him.

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    Default Re: Kratos vs The Norse Pantheon

    Quote Originally Posted by Skami Pilno View Post
    Has a consensus been reached already? By page 4?
    There's a reason Greek Gods need Ares to fight, while almost all the whole male portion of Norse Pantheon is badassery incarnate.

    Quote Originally Posted by shadow_archmagi View Post
    That is, if you're the greek god of dance, you're going to spend all your time dancing. If you fight, it's a dance fight.

    If you're the norse god of dance, then it means you're a norse god who can strangle mountains to death and happens to dabble in dancing, too.
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    Default Re: Kratos vs The Norse Pantheon

    Quote Originally Posted by Killer Angel View Post
    There's a reason Greek Gods need Ares to fight, while almost all the whole male portion of Norse Pantheon is badassery incarnate.
    Athena was a war diety too.[/nitpick]

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    Default Re: Kratos vs The Norse Pantheon

    Actually, 'letting you shoot him' would be exactly what Balder does, because he doesn't know that mistletoe will kill him. That's actually exactly how Loki was able tot rick Hod into killing him--the Gods had a game of shooting and hurling deadly things at Balder, which all fell short, since they'd promised not to hurt him. Then Loki handed Hod a mistletoe arrow.

    If Zeus' thunderbolts or being turned to stone aren't enough to kill Kratos in one hit, there's no reason that the Aesir should.

    The defining trait of Kratos' existence is that he kills gods and mythological monsters. The defining trait of the Aesir's existence is that they'll die in a specific way at a specific time--but Kratos has already proven that Fate means nothing to him.
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    Default Re: Kratos vs The Norse Pantheon

    Quote Originally Posted by Serenity View Post
    Actually, 'letting you shoot him' would be exactly what Balder does, because he doesn't know that mistletoe will kill him.
    See, you assume Balder has a choice in the matter. Actually, the Norse Gods used him like a deific stress ball. Hence the contest's existence to begin with. Besides that: Only two deities know that Balder is not immune to mistletoe, and that would be Loki or Frigg. Neither of which are in the interest of helping Kratos. In that vein, Kratos instantly loses against the Norse God of Beauty since Kratos can never harm him.

    Quote Originally Posted by Serenity View Post
    If Zeus' thunderbolts or being turned to stone aren't enough to kill Kratos in one hit, there's no reason that the Aesir should.
    Lets assume Kratos can take a hit then. It still doesn't matter, because unlike most of the Greek deities, all of the Norse Gods actually know how to fight. Even the Norse god of beauty is still a soldier. Even if he can take a hit, he's fighting battles like Kratos v Ares from GoW1 every, single, time. He's eventually going to be worn down.

    Quote Originally Posted by Serenity View Post
    The defining trait of Kratos' existence is that he kills gods and mythological monsters. The defining trait of the Aesir's existence is that they'll die in a specific way at a specific time--but Kratos has already proven that Fate means nothing to him.
    Actually, he's only shown that Greek fate means nothing to him. Fate defying, or the attempt thereof, is a common theme in Greek mythology. In Norse mythology, fate is not quite so easily defied. To wit: Chaining Fenrir, imprisoning Loki and all that. Surt still comes across the bridge and sets fire to the World Tree.

    If you allow Plot Power for either side, then Kratos loses. Because he means nothing compared to Fate.
    Last edited by ZeroNumerous; 2010-04-06 at 07:50 AM.

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    Default Re: Kratos vs The Norse Pantheon

    Quote Originally Posted by Drakyn View Post
    a guy who's part-god but definitely not a god

    Wrong. He's a human turned god. You could take it as a human who had at a certain point of time Godlike powers. Then he lost 'em. So back to a human, and only that. Not even close to being partially-god.

    a guy nevertheless. He fights full gods, people who are out of his weight class, and he wins through sheer badassness. He does not by any definition rate higher than Zeus on the Mohs scale of Godly Pwnage at the end of GoW II, but he beats him up.
    The Norse pantheon could then very well be less god-powered than the Olympians. But then, so was Kratos, and, as you said, he killed the fates and reversed his own death and beat the stuffing out of Zeus.

    In crude form:
    If
    Kratos < Olympians (godly cheese)
    But
    Kratos > Olympians (beating the living stuffing out of)
    Then
    Aesir < Olympians (godly cheese)
    Should not automatically equal
    Kratos > Aesir (beating the living stuffing out of)

    Wrong again. Kratos is human. Aesir are Lesser-Gods, by your definition. Therefore, Kratos < Aesir, and thus, he wins again.

    So, you've proven you can make a Princess Bride scene in this one. And making up facts, for that matter, because, as it has been stated before, Kratos is nothing but a human. Finito.


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    Default Re: Kratos vs The Norse Pantheon

    He's the son of Zeus. Ergo, part god. Like every other Greek Hero.
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    Default Re: Kratos vs The Norse Pantheon

    Quote Originally Posted by ZeroNumerous View Post
    Lets assume Kratos can take a hit then. It still doesn't matter, because unlike most of the Greek deities, all of the Norse Gods actually know how to fight. Even the Norse god of beauty is still a soldier. Even if he can take a hit, he's fighting battles like Kratos v Ares from GoW1 every, single, time. He's eventually going to be worn down.

    You're assuming too much. Kratos has already killed Gods, and as such, he has already been worn out. Then be so kind as to explain how could Kratos fight the three sisters of Fate without being worn out? (Not to mention he fought two of them at the same time.)

    Actually, he's only shown that Greek fate means nothing to him.

    So fate is different in different countries? And here I though you would start speaking logical stuff...

    No, by definition, the Fates were above the gods, and as such, They cannot be counted among the Greek Pantheon. They are above it, out of it, if you will.


    Fate defying, or the attempt thereof, is a common theme in Greek mythology. In Norse mythology, fate is not quite so easily defied. To wit: Chaining Fenrir, imprisoning Loki and all that. Surt still comes across the bridge and sets fire to the World Tree.

    So? He still beat Fate. A Fate that even GODS COULDN'T DEFY.
    A HUMAN beat something that GODS couldn't DEFY.
    Your argument is invalid.


    If you allow Plot Power for either side, then Kratos loses. Because he means nothing compared to Fate.

    If you allow Common sense, then he will not ever fight the Norse Pantheon, instantly not-losing.

    If you allow What Actually Happens In God Of War II for either side, then he still wins, because he doesn't give a damn about meaning nothing compared to Fate.

    Oh, by the way, he still won against fate, so your argument is invalid.
    Yet again.
    Last edited by Crimmy : Tomorrow at 26:72 DM.
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  30. - Top - End - #120
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    Default Re: Kratos vs The Norse Pantheon

    Quote Originally Posted by Crimmy View Post
    Wrong. He's a human turned god. You could take it as a human who had at a certain point of time Godlike powers. Then he lost 'em. So back to a human, and only that. Not even close to being partially-god.
    Wrong. Kratos in God of War is one of Zeus' many bastard sons. The games actually use this to put Kratos' vengeance quest against Zeus and the other Olympians from game 2 on into the motif of sons usurping rulership of the universe from their father that Greek myth had going on - the first ruler Uranus being overthrown by his son, Cronus the Titan, who was himself overthrown by Zeus. Zeus actually says to Kratos when he kills him at the start of the second game "The cycle ends here," referencing this.

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