LGBTitp - Part Six

[Serpentine]

Uh... huh. I'll ask a friend of mine about it, he'll probably know it.

[lsfreak]

I realized I have lurked here for a while (when I remember that there's part of the site that's not Roleplaying) but I've never really introduced myself. And being I should be doing finals stuff, this seemed like a good time.

Hi! I'm lsfreak (the name is a remnant of having to come up with an email address in 30 seconds in 8th grade). I'm a bi-ish senior in college from the Midwest. And I would like to say that living your first 18 years of life thinking your straight, coming to college, and realizing holy-crap-some-guys-are-hot is a very strange experience. Though it did make for some interesting stoner moments concerning how incredible human emotion is.

[Serpentine]

Heheh. "Bi-ish"
'ello. I'm sure you'll work it out. Or not. 'sallgood.

[lsfreak]

Heheh. "Bi-ish"
'ello. I'm sure you'll work it out. Or not. 'sallgood.

Well, I guess I know exactly what it is. It's just that the label of 'bi' doesn't cover it, as is often the case with human sexuality Basically I'm attracted to vastly more females, but vastly more attracted to males (though there's more to it). Hence the stoner moments - "I thought I was really attracted to some girls. But now... wow, human emotions are incredible... *trails off in thought*"

[Serpentine]

Huh. 'sinteresting. I think I have something along those lines (though, note, I'm straight): I tend to like looking at girls more than guys, but I think I'm pickier about them.

[Coidzor]

Huh. 'sinteresting. I think I have something along those lines (though, note, I'm straight): I tend to like looking at girls more than guys, but I think I'm pickier about them.

I'm certainly harder on males than on females when it comes to judging them aesthetically, yeah.

Is it bad I'm still referring to her as him? I mean, physically, she's a him. Until recently, she's been a him to everyone. It's how we know her/m.

Also, I'd direct her/m here, but s/he doesn't generally do a lot of forum-going.

Depends on how much you care about the potential in public for awkwardness/hostility if you call someone still living and looking male as a female.

And my ex-girlfriend was rather like you in that regards, Serps. She was interested in exploring her bisexual tendencies but had trouble finding girls who lived up to her standards.

[Quincunx]

Serious answer to pronoun inquiry: The easiest for all parties talking to the individual seems to be to set a date for the change-over of gender pronouns, from that threshold using the original pronoun to speak of the past and the correct pronoun for present and future. [EDIT: Bonuses to this method include the individual controlling the time of change-over instead of everyone around imposing their own judgment, for the relatively low price of not being angry with the 'incorrect' pronoun until the date of change-over, and also avoiding the conflicting judgments of "when he thinks like she", "when he looks like she", "when he's got she parts" and "no".]

Snarky answer to pronoun inquiry: With the masculine pronoun as the English-language default, your friend can now feel personally insulted by it as opposed to systemically insulted.

Normally this is said by/on the behalf of women, but on its behalf... its face is up there, so to speak.
Unless you have really weird "bits".

I love this thread.

[Danne]

Is it bad I'm still referring to her as him? I mean, physically, she's a him. Until recently, she's been a him to everyone. It's how we know her/m.

Also, I'd direct her/m here, but s/he doesn't generally do a lot of forum-going.

May I recommend asking her/him which pronouns s/he would like you to use?

And Isfreak, welcome to the thread!

[Asta Kask]

The local jewellery store has changed their tune! For years their slogan for part of the year was "her ring for free!", and I always wanted to send a lesbian couple in to get two free engagement rings. Now it's "the cheaper ring free!" And so we make progress. It's not quick and it's not always pretty, but we do make progress.

I just wanted to remind you of that.

[Coidzor]

The local jewellery store has changed their tune! For years their slogan for part of the year was "her ring for free!", and I always wanted to send a lesbian couple in to get two free engagement rings. Now it's "the cheaper ring free!" And so we make progress. It's not quick and it's not always pretty, but we do make progress.

I just wanted to remind you of that.

I like how that was bad business practice too, since female rings are always expected to be the more expensive as male rings are supposed to be simple bands, whereas a female ring is expected to have rocks on.

Hence why, in the traditionally more likely event of a male wedding band being destroyed, lost, or stolen, replacing it was... simple.

Though, you have to admit, the fact that they expected both men and women to buy engagement rings was progress. Of a sort.

[Cotilla]

Hi

Well, lately I've been feeling strange with myself... months ago, I enjoyed very much love stories, no matter if it was in films, tv series, books, manga... but now I can't stand the stories that feature heterosexual couples, unless there is a homosexual character or couple too (like Glee, the Shadowhunter triology...). The other day I even got angry while I was leaving the theatre after watching "Alice in Wonderland" because of the implicit love between Alice and the Mad Hatter.

Until now, I've played mostly female characters in roleplaying games, but now I can't enjoy the game with them... I played those characters to be able to roleplay falling in love with a man without needing to expose myself, but I can't do it anymore... but I can't bring myself to make a gay character. I feel that what I need now is be able to play a bleaching gnome druid/sorcerer with a crush on the black kobold chief in the Kingmaker AP (quite silly, I know).

Sorry for the random babbling.

[Beelzebub1111]

I'm currently playing a bi/gay character in a 2nd ed game, not that the other players or the dm know that yet. He'll come out when the opportunity arises.

[Asta Kask]

I'm currently playing a bi/gay character in a 2nd ed game, not that the other players or the dm know that yet. He'll come out when the opportunity arises.

As a DM, I would not be pleased with that. Anything that major should be discussed with the DM first.

[Serpentine]

What's so major about it? The most you're likely to get is "I flirt with the waiter." "Okay, you start flirting with the waitress..." "No, the waiter." "Oh. OOoooooh. Okay, then."

[Jacklu]

Yeah, I don't see how sexual orientation is a major issue with a character, unless the campaign specificaly involves sexual activity... In which case I am fairly sure you are not playing D&D anymore. I mean, its not like straight characters have to declare themselves as such before the game can begin.

[golentan]

Yeah, I don't see how sexual orientation is a major issue with a character, unless the campaign specificaly involves sexual activity... In which case I am fairly sure you are not playing D&D anymore. I mean, its not like straight characters have to declare themselves as such before the game can begin.

BoEF.

By the way: Best. Gag gift. For gamers. Evar.

[Serpentine]

Gag gift?

[Lyesmith]

Gag gift?

In that some of the contents may involve a gag of somekind. Or test the gag reflex.

[Serpentine]

Why do people keep explaining things I already know lately? Not snarking at you, it's just that that's about the 4th time in 2 days.
I'm not asking what "gag" means, I'm questioning the insertion of "gag" into that sentence.

[Ashen Lilies]

Hey! It was a +5 Gag of Smiting, okay!
...
Don't judge me!

[Lyesmith]

Why do people keep explaining things I already know lately? Not snarking at you, it's just that that's about the 4th time in 2 days.
I'm not asking what "gag" means, I'm questioning the insertion of "gag" into that sentence.

Well, I thought I'd go with the more amusing interpretation of the pragmatics of your speech, rather than the "A lot of gamers propably think it's stupid and makes a good lulzy gift" semantics.

[Derjuin]

Yes, THAT kind of mature.

Woops. Forgot to mention that yes, that is a Book of Exalted Deeds. I don't own a Book of Vile Darkness, though perhaps I'm very much glad I don't.

[Serpentine]

But it was already a joke

[Kaelaroth]

What's so major about it? The most you're likely to get is "I flirt with the waiter." "Okay, you start flirting with the waitress..." "No, the waiter." "Oh. OOoooooh. Okay, then."

Only major reason I can think of right now is:
"DM: Yeah!
Player: WHAT?!
DM: The dragon has stolen your super special awesome girlfriend princess lady! You, a brave heterosexual hunky heart-throb, must plunge into the darkness (and into this incredibly long plot I've spent the last six months planning) so that you can rescue your woman; your only love!
Player: . . . Did I mention I'm, like, gay?"

[golentan]

Only major reason I can think of right now is:
"DM: Yeah!
Player: WHAT?!
DM: The dragon has stolen your super special awesome girlfriend princess lady! You, a brave heterosexual hunky heart-throb, must plunge into the darkness (and into this incredibly long plot I've spent the last six months planning) so that you can rescue your woman; your only love!
Player: . . . Did I mention I'm, like, gay?"

Eh, the DM shouldn't be dictating romantic entanglements for PCs anyway, so I have no sympathy for him in that scenario.

[Danne]

Hi

Well, lately I've been feeling strange with myself... months ago, I enjoyed very much love stories, no matter if it was in films, tv series, books, manga... but now I can't stand the stories that feature heterosexual couples, unless there is a homosexual character or couple too (like Glee, the Shadowhunter triology...). The other day I even got angry while I was leaving the theatre after watching "Alice in Wonderland" because of the implicit love between Alice and the Mad Hatter.

Yes, well, it's perfectly normal to be squicked by AlicexHatter. It's wrong in so many ways. Especially seeing as she was all of seven or so in the original book.

(*cough* Sorry, literary nerd, I didn't appreciate the movie.)

If you're interested in some good reading material I'd be happy to rec some things for you! *absolutely loves sharing good books that have gay protags* Especially sci-fi/fantasy but I've got some from other genres if you prefer.

@Serpentine and Kaelaroth: Your sample conversations both made me burst out laughing in the library.

[Murdim]

Gag gift?

Well, the gag may provide a circumstance bonus for some creative usages of the Use Rope skill. Or so I heard...

Various stuff about gay characters

In my opinion, there's two different ways to play or write a gay character (or lesbian, or bisexual, or whatever else - replace accordingly in the following paragraphs) outside of a gay-themed fiction : as a gimmick, or as a trait among many others.

In the former case, the player/writer/scriptwriter will try to put his character's homosexuality into play as much as possible for the sake of it, usually resorting to sterotypical lifestyle and mannerisms, shallow, temporary love interests, frequent verbal reminding by the character himself and his circle of his sexual orientation, and the occasional Very Special Episode about difference and/or AIDS.

In the latter case, the character is a person before being a gay man, both in its personality and in the function he holds in the story ; his sexuality isn't the core of his being from which every other trait derive from, either as a confirmation or as a reversal of the social expectations ; not everything meaningful that happens to him is linked to his homosexuality, and even when it is, it doesn't happen "because that's what being gay is about".

Of course, the "problem" with this school of thought is that sometimes, the character's sexual orientation may very well never have a good occasion to, huh, come out. Not beyond subtle hints and debatable innuendos, at least. For exemple, did you know that the Baldur's Gate saga gave us an extremely rare exemple of a likeable, heroic, loyal, sympathetic, mostly chaste bisexual character in a major supporting role as one of the most plot-centric recruitable character ? Well, it's frankly hard to guess when the only indications there is are some subtext in both games, her Dragon Age rip-off (pun unintended) being much more frank about her sexuality, not to mention romanceable... and the fact that in the Throne of Bhaal expansion pack, under some fairly uncommon circumstances which do not include a specific gender for the player character, Sarevok implicitly but unambiguously reveals Imoen has an "unrequited longing" for the main character.

[Danne]

In the former case, the player/writer/scriptwriter will try to put his character's homosexuality into play as much as possible for the sake of it, usually resorting to sterotypical lifestyle and mannerisms, shallow, temporary love interests, frequent verbal reminding by the character himself and his circle of his sexual orientation, and the occasional Very Special Episode about difference and/or AIDS.

Yes, but, why would I (or anyone else here) want to read about or play as such a character?

In the latter case, the character is a person before being a gay man, both in its personality and in the function he holds in the story ; his sexuality isn't the core of his being from which every other trait derive from, either as a confirmation or as a reversal of the social expectations ; not everything meaningful that happens to him is linked to his homosexuality, and even when it is, it doesn't happen "because that's what being gay is about".

Of course, the "problem" with this school of thought is that sometimes, the character's sexual orientation may very well never have a good occasion to, huh, come out. Not beyond subtle hints and debatable innuendos, at least.

There are plenty of good stories out there that have gay characters being awesome, and that also are not at all ambiguous about their sexuality. You must not have been reading the right books!

[stuff about Balduer's Gate]

Imoen's bi? Huh. Slipped right past me.

[Jacklu]

I completely agree. Which is why I said that I didn't see why it would be a major issue. Unless the DM intends to write a romance plot it won't really make a difference in the end. It is the difference between writing a gay character and a character who is gay. With the former, the fact that they are gay defines every interaction with them, making them a stereotype, either good or bad. The latter, however, has their orientation as just another descriptor that is no more important then another character's heterosexuality. Actually, a webcomic artists that I like wrote up a guide on writing characters who are gay. Linky! I found it a good read and rather helpful myself. In fact, a few characters in stories I am writing are gay and there has yet to be any mention of it. It will come up, but only in passing and not as a matter of importance to the story or plot. =3

[Pyrian]

Eh, the DM shouldn't be dictating romantic entanglements for PCs anyway, so I have no sympathy for him in that scenario.

I have sympathy for DM's dictating entanglements of all kinds because PCs, left to their own devices, are 90% without significant others, family (parents, children, or even just cousins), or even non-PC friends. Half a dozen loner orphans who just happen to have been thrown together by circumstance gets old...

At the beginning of the last campaign I ran, I simply asked the party, "One of you is deeply involved with the Fair Lady MacGuffin (yes, that was actually her name). Who should it be?" (And, yes, female characters were just as eligible as male characters.)