LGBTitp - Part Six

[arguskos]

Imoen's bi? Huh. Slipped right past me.

Implied, but never qualified or stated, save in third-party modifications. But yes, fairly implied.

Sorry, I'll leave this thread now and stop being non-helpful.

[Cotilla]

The problem is not to make a character who happens to be gay... my silvanesti elf wizard is gay, my shoanti barbarian is gay, my next character (likely a changeling wizard seeker of reality) will be gay... but they will never get to have a relationship with anybody, because nobody of my gaming group know that I'm gay. That it's what bothers me, that they will end like my Comander Shepard (Alexander) of the Mass Effect games, who is a sentinel, wears a researcher outfit, likes to use a sniper rifle and his biotics in combat, is nice to nearly everybody but if somone pisses him off, he probably kills him... and is gay, but gets no option to state so.

I don't kow if I'm making my point clear or if I'm messing things up

Thanks for the link Jacklu

[The Rose Dragon]

I mean, its not like straight characters have to declare themselves as such before the game can begin.

That's because heterosexuality is the norm, therefore assumed until stated otherwise. You might not like it and complain it is unfair, but that's how norms work.

[Coidzor]

I must admit, I've never really understood why people would want romance in their D&D, due to the whole NPC-DM thing. And flirting with the DM just seems so awkward to me... more so if the scenario goes beyond that. I tend to agree with the DMs who just don't want to cross that line in their games. Which is why although the BoEF amuses me, I would never want to play in a game that deals with the subject matter.

And then there's the quality thing. Most heterosexual guys can't write that kind of dialogue for het girls when that's the kind of dialogue they're trying to hear/get IRL, it's shudder-inducing to think of what they would do in contexts outside of simple, het male-female relations.

If the DM and other players are cool to deal with romance more than in fleetingly passing examples, then, yeah, the characters' orientations are something that the DM should know.

[Cotilla]

The thing is that i don't have a rol group IRL anymore... now I play through forums and with a group of online friends throwgh mIRC, so it's not that awkward. In our campaigns love and relationships are present (our bard is married with a shoanti barbarian, the cleric and the rogue had a fling...) and sometimes they do the sex scenes too (usually when it's late and someone is bored). I guess that the online ting makes it less embarrasing. I don't ask for that... all I need is to be able to "flirt with the waiter" or my characters to have a happy ending with someone.

[Danne]

The thing is that i don't have a rol group IRL anymore... now I play through forums and with a group of online friends throwgh mIRC, so it's not that awkward. In our campaigns love and relationships are present (our bard is married with a shoanti barbarian, the cleric and the rogue had a fling...) and sometimes they do the sex scenes too (usually when it's late and someone is bored). I guess that the online ting makes it less embarrasing. I don't ask for that... all I need is to be able to "flit with the waiter" or my characters to have a happy ending with someone.

I wouldn't imagine you'd have any problems. If in doubt, ask the DM. Or is there no DM in online games? Is there a "out of character" board where everyone meets and you could just toss it out there?

Regardless, you shouldn't have any problems. Or if you do, you should find a new group!

[Dogmantra]

And flirting with the DM just seems so awkward to me...

That's given me an idea... now to convince Object of Affection that he'd make a good DM in a BoEF-utilising campaign...

[Cotilla]

The problem is that they don't know I am gay, so playing an out gay character would be awkward.

And yes, there is a DM, well, several of them, each with his/her campaign.

[The Rose Dragon]

The problem is that they don't know I am gay, so playing an out gay character would be awkward.

Why? I've played homosexual characters before, and I'm not homosexual myself. I've also played female characters, aliens and superheroes. Functionally, what would be the difference? Your character is not you, it's someone you created. Other players should not ask questions about your sexual preferences because you play a queer character, just like they shouldn't ask whether you have superpowers if you play a superhero (though if you do have superpowers, that would be cool).

[Cotilla]

I didn't mean that it would be awkward to them, but to me. I'd feel like cheating if I made a gay character without them kowing about me being gay.

[The Rose Dragon]

How is it cheating? Does having a queer character give you advantages in-game? Or do you mean it would be more like betraying them (or yourself) by playing around your sexual identity?

Not trying to insult you here, I'm just really confused why it's such a big deal for you.

[Cotilla]

I guess I'm weird, but it just wouldn't feel right to me, and I really don't know why.

[Rappy]

I think I understand what Cotilla's trying to say. It's sort of like, hypothetically speaking of course, a glamoured elf that plays roleplaying games...and tends to pick elves as their player.

Of course, I could be way off base and rambling, in which case I preemptively apologize.

[Cotilla]

Thats what I intended to say, thanks

Why I haven't thought about that analogy myself...? I must be sleepy... I'm going to bed.

[Coidzor]

I guess I'm weird, but it just wouldn't feel right to me, and I really don't know why.

Well, figure out why, then. You have the tools necessary to do so.

Do you actually have any reason why you wouldn't be willing to be truthful if they asked as to your orientation?

Also:

they do the sex scenes too (usually when it's late and someone is bored).

Eww. TMI and reeking of disingenuousness.

[Murdim]

The problem is not to make a character who happens to be gay... my silvanesti elf wizard is gay, my shoanti barbarian is gay, my next character (likely a changeling wizard seeker of reality) will be gay... but they will never get to have a relationship with anybody, because nobody of my gaming group know that I'm gay. That it's what bothers me, that they will end like my Comander Shepard (Alexander) of the Mass Effect games, who is a sentinel, wears a researcher outfit, likes to use a sniper rifle and his biotics in combat, is nice to nearly everybody but if somone pisses him off, he probably kills him... and is gay, but gets no option to state so.

I don't kow if I'm making my point clear or if I'm messing things up

Thanks for the link Jacklu

An idea so simple I almost blame myself for not having thought of it sooner. Just put it in his backstory.

Not his homosexuality itself, of course ; in my humble opinion, that shouldn't matter unless the circumstances make it so. But nothing stops you from creating those interesting occasions where your character's sexual orientation is justified to come into play. And... well... your character probably had a life before the start of the campaign, he has known many other people before meeting the adventuring party, right ? Roleplaying games may be fundamentally interaction-based, and players may not have always the occasion to do everything they want to do in their game sessions, but you're still the one who determines your character's past after all.

A backstory is something you can put a lot of details in, and most of those details won't have anything to do with his sexuality. You've well enough place at your disposition to have him know a love story, requited or not ; preferably tragic, convoluted and impactful ; a piece of life that not only establishes your character's leanings in an elegant way, but can also provide an excellent plot hook with the potential to bring the subject in live play (at the DM's discretion). By the way, the fact your next character is a Changeling may give you some more... creative possibilities in this domain

EDIT : crap, i'm so slow

[Pyrian]

Eww. TMI and reeking of disingenuousness.

Calm down, lad, it's just a skill challenge.

[golentan]

Calm down, lad, it's just a skill challenge.

Plus a constitution check vs. fatigue.

[Derjuin]

Calm down, lad, it's just a skill challenge.

And the duration is modified by how many Fort saves you can make with an ever-increasing DC

[Coidzor]

Calm down, lad, it's just a skill challenge.

You did get the up late, bored, let's cyber but pretend that's not what's going on by including it in the game, yes?

[Lix Lorn]

Ah, lemony roleplay, how I adore thee...

[Mauve Shirt]

Calm down, lad, it's just a skill challenge.

And a fortitude saving role against diseases.

[Danne]

*snerk* I love you guys.

[Serpentine]

In my organised Pathfinder game, I'm playing a Half-elf Ranger of Ambiguous Gender. I couldn't decide on a sex, so I didn't. Which, on-topic, makes his/her sexual orientation... in the eye of the beholder, I suppose. I'm kinda hoping to get Albis to pose for a character picture for me...

[Deth Muncher]

As a follow up to my previous dilemma, I spoke with my friend and we agreed that in person, pronouns remain masculine, but on the interwebs pronouns shift to feminine. At least until she's a she in all senses of the term.

[Delta]

In my organised Pathfinder game, I'm playing a Half-elf Ranger of Ambiguous Gender. I couldn't decide on a sex, so I didn't. Which, on-topic, makes his/her sexual orientation... in the eye of the beholder, I suppose. I'm kinda hoping to get Albis to pose for a character picture for me...

I did that in Shadowrun, created a character of no clearly defined gender, avoided using gender-related pronouns in play (which is A LOT easier in RL groups than online) with the added gimick that said character is a mage with a "Personal Sex Change" spell which he/she can pretty much use at will, so there's really no way to tell what gender the character has today ;)

[Rappy]

Thats what I intended to say, thanks

Why I haven't thought about that analogy myself...? I must be sleepy... I'm going to bed.

I'm glad that my unhealthy obsession with urban fantasy came in use to you.

And on the current RPGs and sexuality and gender: I've long been relegated to "writes RPG material", and before that the role of DM/GM, but I do remember playing an Shi'ido (a shapeshifting species of gray-skinned humanoids) in a Star Wars Roleplaying Game session back in the first of the two d20 editions (3 if you count Saga as well).

In retrospect, it's probably amusing how overpowered I homebrewed them as opposed to their official stats that later appeared in Ultimate Alien Anthology, but that is neither here nor there...

[Quincunx]

The thing is that i don't have a rol group IRL anymore... now I play through forums and with a group of online friends throwgh mIRC, so it's not that awkward. In our campaigns love and relationships are present (our bard is married with a shoanti barbarian, the cleric and the rogue had a fling...) and sometimes they do the sex scenes too (usually when it's late and someone is bored). I guess that the online ting makes it less embarrasing. I don't ask for that... all I need is to be able to "flirt with the waiter" or my characters to have a happy ending with someone.

You're envious that other people are getting cyber from your DM/fellow players and you won't.
You. . .are envious. . .that other people are getting cyber. . .and you will not.

Sorry. In this case, the need to not be a blazing dork just because others are outweighs the need for personal expression, as I see it. Even if you realize that the only person preventing homosexual advances getting into the game is yourself, and remove that obstacle, I can't see this having a net positive effect on your self-esteem if you go through with it. Now if you added in some improving features like using the time to learn how to flirt with sass, or getting someone else to realize you(r character) doesn't see the world in the boy-meets-girl way*, that might tip the whole exercise over into positive self-esteem gains.

*"What was that popping sound?"
"A paradigm shifting without a clutch."
--Dilbert, after messing with the accounting department troll's mind

[Asta Kask]

What's so major about it? The most you're likely to get is "I flirt with the waiter." "Okay, you start flirting with the waitress..." "No, the waiter." "Oh. OOoooooh. Okay, then."

I question that. It tends to be - why do we need a separate thread for LGBTitp issues otherwise? We don't have a separate thread for people who don't eat broccoli. We don't feel the need for a a "Non-Broccoli Eaters Pride Parade." People who refuse to eat broccoli are not being bullied, beaten up and killed all over the world. Obviously, this depends on what setting you're in but... unless you know the setting fairly well you can get into trouble. What if the setting has a set-up that strongly implies that homosexuals will be in trouble? And that the planned adventures require that they not be in such trouble? At that point the GM has a choice - he can violate the integrity of the setting, he can abandon all the work he has put into planning adventures, or he can kick out the offending player. I'd be rather miffed at being put into that position.

Second, what if the other players aren't comfortable with it? When I ask players to participate in a campaign, I try to put together a group that won't push each others' buttons too much. If one of the other players have a problem with homosexual characters (which may not indicate that the player has a problem with homosexuals) then you have ruined the experience for him. If I had been given the information in advance I could have avoided wasting everyone's time.

Again, I want to stress this: I have nothing against homosexual characters. But, as a GM, I want to know in advance.

[Serpentine]

If the setting has a problem with homosexuals, then that can provide some interesting roleplay opportunities. Much like real-life homosexuals, homosexual characters do not go around with "GAY" on their foreheads. If they do, and it doesn't reflect a DM's real-life issues, then that, too, can make for interesting roleplay.
If the players have a problem with homosexuals/ity, then the game "problem" pales into insignificance against the real-life problems - which are theirs, not yours, even if it does effect you.
The presence of an LGBT thread and other LGBT support and the like reflects the unfortunately persistent - but fading - persecution and problems effecting that extremely broad group. However, it is also true that sexuality does not matter in any meaningful way, certainly not in any way relevant to a D&D game. If a player has a problem with a homosexual character, then that is the problem, not the character.