LGBTitp - Part Six

[The Rose Dragon]

Is there any reason he would be gay, other than his brother being gay?

I mean, feminine traits are not really a sign of being gay, though there is a weird preconception that if you're male and you have feminine traits, you must be gay (no, I'm not, for gods' sake, and while I'm flattered that you find me attractive, please stop hitting on me).

If he is, in fact, straight, bringing the topic up would cause a lot of uncomfortable moments. If he is not straight but is not willing to share it with other people, bringing the topic up would still cause a lot of uncomfortable moments. So, my advice is, let sleeping dogs lie. If he is in fact queer and chooses to confide in you, be supportive (though I doubt you would not be supportive, given your post), but don't push the issue further.

((By the way, this might feel like prying, but is the country, by any chance, Greece?))

[nefele]

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Asked, answered, removed.
Thanks. :)

[The Rose Dragon]

Err... yes. May I ask if you deduced that from the story itself or from something in my profile? (Or from a crystal ball?)

Actually, I checked your blog. My first thought was that you were from Turkey, which is oddly similar to Greece in that aspect, but I wasn't sure, so I checked your profile.

Frankly, if you didn't want me to figure that out, you shouldn't have written the location under every single photograph in your blog.

((I'm like a creepy e-stalker!))

[Serpentine]

Well... what if, next time something comes up in the news (e.g., somewhere legalises gay marriage, some atrocity is dealt to homosexuals, etc), you make a point of commenting on it in his presence, and/or asking his opinion of it?

[nefele]

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Asked, answered, removed.
Thanks. :)

[golentan]

2 words: His. Decision.

He's probably straight. Because he could (as his brother is evidently doing) be openly gay when it wouldn't get back to his parents. And if not, it's his choice whether or not to come out. I can't believe I'm doing this*, but I'm going to reference El Goonish Shive. Panel 3. Rule 1 of Sexual Orientation: It is not your job to second guess anyone else's identity. You may, however, if you are a sufficiently good friend, mockingly suggest that they're deluding themselves in their identification. With the understanding it is solely for humor purposes.

Also, I've got sort of similar attitudes towards other people as he does. So riddle me this. If the fellow would be happier making someone else happier by repressing, in what way is it kindness to make him unrepress given that by your own admission it would make him less happy?

*Actually I can, because this comic is basically my life, only it doesn't make me cry in the corner and has less physics involved in all of the weirdness that would make a tabloid embarassed to publish most of the stories I could share.

[Coidzor]

I dunno why, but something always just seems morally questionable about the idea of a someone who is gay marrying someone who is straight.

[The Rose Dragon]

...I'm going to reference El Goonish Shive.

Marry me you wonderful man you.

Though know that sex is out of the question and that I will have my own girlfriends.

[golentan]

Marry me you wonderful man you.

Though know that sex is out of the question and that I will have my own girlfriends.

Done and Done. What sort of ceremony do you want? Yes, Joking.

[The Rose Dragon]

Done and Done. What sort of ceremony do you want?

We need a ceremony?

Damn, I hadn't thought about it. I'm pretty much broke at the moment. Let's postpone it until I have a solid wage. And a house of my own, probably.

[Lix Lorn]

No-one's married me recently... (Sad face)

Yeah, I'd agree with Golentan's advice... good luck.

[Quincunx]

I dunno why, but something always just seems morally questionable about the idea of a someone who is gay marrying someone who is straight.

It's the idea that marriage = monogamous relationship, instead of marriage = socially and legally convenient structure for a singleton and a closeted homosexual to co-habit.

[Serpentine]

A friend of my dad's is gay and was married with... I think 2 kids. 'course, he only figured that out in the pre-divorce counselling.

[Jacklu]

No-one's married me recently... (Sad face)

<.<

>.>

=3

But I get to help pick out the wedding dress, kay? =p

[Lix Lorn]

Done. <3
^_^

[Dihan]

Well I told my lesbian friend and her girlfriend. I decided to try the whole 'no fuss' thing and just made it seem as if I thought they already knew. Yay!

[Jacklu]

Congradulations, Dihan!

Lix: =3 <333

Maybe we should have a date or two first. =)P Got an MSN account? Internet dates are silly but can be fun. ^_^

[Coidzor]

It's the idea that marriage = monogamous relationship, instead of marriage = socially and legally convenient structure for a singleton and a closeted homosexual to co-habit.

Well, yeah, you either have to stick to your guns about it being about love or admit that it's not about love at all in what it is. That and where on earth is it not already a hellhole for other reasons that would require marriage in order to cohabit?

A friend of my dad's is gay and was married with... I think 2 kids. 'course, he only figured that out in the pre-divorce counselling.

Never quite been sure if it's supposed to be viewed as solely tragic or with some element of the pathetic in there as well.

[Lix Lorn]

Maybe we should have a date or two first. =)P Got an MSN account? Internet dates are silly but can be fun. ^_^

'Fraid not... I have AIM and Skype, but my computer doesn't like MSN.

Well, yeah, you either have to stick to your guns about it being about love or admit that it's not about love at all in what it is. That and where on earth is it not already a hellhole for other reasons that would require marriage in order to cohabit?

It SHOULD be about love, but commonly isn't.

[742]

love and contractual obligations


nope; still dont see it. they seem more like opposites; and not the black/white type of opposite where their kinda similar; the pedicure/kiwi kind of opposite where theres absolutely no connection. i think our culture is just crazy
you would not believe how much i had to edit this to make it innuendo resistant.

[golentan]

I disagree that sexuality and love are linked. Take, for example, this common archetype. If some folks were another sexual orientation, you know exactly who they'd marry. Why the hell should it be different if you don't want to do the nasty with someone you love, but do want to spend your life in close companionship with them, than any other form of marriage? What is inherently wrong with that idea?

If you're using someone else as a front, that is naturally different. But people automatically assume that lack of physical attraction + long term commitment = coverup of some sort, and it IS NOT SO, DAMMIT!!! I get that you're wired to pair bond with a mate to provide resources for children, but that hasn't been more than the tip of the romance iceberg for so long it's hardly worth mentioning.

And even if the other person wants sex, it isn't particularly onerous to ensure that they get that out of the relationship to. Or at least it wouldn't be, if people weren't such whiny babies about genitals. I've known people who spend all day cleaning portapotties, who despite their willingness to scrub raw sewage get all wibbly about genital contact. Talking about how gross X is even after they just spent an afternoon touching their own recreationally. It's skin and a small measure of fluid, people. Regardless of which version you're talking about. It is far less gross than a human mouth if properly cleaned, and you need to get over your collective neurosis about it or so help me I will neuter your entire species just so I don't have to listen to you whine about the damn things anymore.

I feel better having gotten that out of my system.

[Serpentine]

Never quite been sure if it's supposed to be viewed as solely tragic or with some element of the pathetic in there as well.

Neither, I think. They were married... I'm not sure how long, but at least ten years, certainly long enough to have two sons. My dad would know, if anyone's interested enough I'll ask her. Like I said, neither of them knew he was gay, until the relationship was already going downhill. Though it wasn't very surprising (sorry guys, but... effeminate mannerisms, worked in theatre... Okay, my dad did/does that too, but... well, my Boy would've thought he was gay without knowing that, too. Hrm.).
Hm... All his ex-wife's IMDB biography says is that she's 6'2". Damn that's a huge family.

[Coidzor]

Neither, I think.

Really? The fact that some individuals are so repressed that they go on to have a decades long marriage with the opposite sex isn't supposed to elicit any kind of pathos in the audience?

Hm... All his ex-wife's IMDB biography says is that she's 6'2". Damn that's a huge family.

...Why does she have an IMDB page?

[Serpentine]

*coughiknowsemifamouspeoplecough*

And yeah, it's unfortunate (although they had a gorgeous (huge!) son), but... to the best of my knowledge, he wasn't so much repressed as it didn't occur to him.

[Asta Kask]

Really? The fact that some individuals are so repressed that they go on to have a decades long marriage with the opposite sex isn't supposed to elicit any kind of pathos in the audience?

Or can sexuality change as a result of live events? I'd say that's a theory which is at least worthy of consideration.

[Coidzor]

Or can sexuality change as a result of live events? I'd say that's a theory which is at least worthy of consideration.

I thought we had already dismissed anything beyond a bisexual switching from preferring one to preferring the other as thoughtcrime and error.

And yeah, it's unfortunate (although they had a gorgeous (huge!) son), but... to the best of my knowledge, he wasn't so much repressed as it didn't occur to him.

You seem to be on some kind of huge kick here...

And that definitely sounds like repression of the unconscious variety.

[Thufir]

A friend of my dad's is gay and was married with... I think 2 kids. 'course, he only figured that out in the pre-divorce counselling.

The way you phrased this allows the interpretation that he only figured out he had two kids in the pre-divorce counseling.
This amuses me.

[lsfreak]

And that definitely sounds like repression of the unconscious variety.

I'd lean that way too, but I'm completely convinced. It didn't occur to me that I was bi until college (though granted, there's potentially a big difference between bi and gay). Before that I was more-than-just-aesthetically, not-as-far-as-sexually attracted to a very small number of guys. But emotional attraction and actual sexual attraction to the other person was never there, thus it "didn't count." It didn't fit what I defined (and how I still define) 'attraction to a person in such a way as to define their sexual orientation,' and thus I viewed myself as straight.

If someone never really stops to think about it, if they've never really had to confront a physical attraction towards someone of the same sex, but they DO have a strong and intimate emotional connection with someone of the opposite sex, I could see someone simply accepting that intimate emotional connection as straight-ness. In such a case it might be less repression, and more simply ignorance: "I am straight because I attracted to this person of the opposite sex," but the person is using 'attraction' in a different manner than others.

[Coidzor]

It still sounds like either an extreme lack of introspection or some other deficiency of self-talk and/or of dealing with one's self to be ignorant of one's self that one wouldn't pick that up something of that magnitude until midway through one's 4th or 5th or 6th decade.

Even the stereotypically vapid pay more attention to themselves than that. Granted, they're usually vapid because they're overly-self-centered and vacuous, but even they're capable of realizing they're gay at least without needing to be in their 40s or 50s.

...Some kind of overly self-sacrificing person who ignores one's own self in favor of focusing exclusively on others?

[Serpentine]

Dude, you're talking about someone I know and like. I don't know the public details, much less the very private ones, but I have no reason to think he would have been somehow forced to repress it, nor that he was "extremely stupid or at least completely ignorant of (himself)", nor that his marriage was even unhappy or unfulfilling until other problems arose enough to make him think that this might have been one of them.
Please stop dissing friends of my family.