LGBTitp - Part Six

[Serpentine]

No. He's saying that racism has been pushed so far to the fringes of society (well, ideally) that "blatant" racism like that has been all but eliminated (ideally), and people who are racist are forced to be circumspect about it.

[lsfreak]

This begs the question of whether LGBT covers furries/scalies...

I have nothing to add to the current discussion, but I would like to say that that doesn't mean what you think it does.

On a related subject, taking an intro logic class ruined my life.

And oh man, he is amazing at hugs. Like super amazing. The second best hugger I have ever had the good fortune to hug.

Okay, I might be able to add something. Good huggers are great. Unfortunately for some of us who like hugs, we're not good enough friends with enough people to meet our hug-quota most days. My mom doesn't mind that I randomly hug her 15 or 20 times a day (at least), but it tends to annoy most people.
*hugs everyone in sight*

[Rappy]

Actually, our XX/XY sex determination system is more the exception than the rule in the animal kingdom. According to Wikipedia, it is only found in most mammals and - coincidentally - some insects. And while there's some other systems that are similar to ours (XX/X0, ZW/ZZ, the platypus' XXXXXXXXXX/XYXYXYXYXY), in many if not most animal species, sex determination isn't liked to chromosomes at all. So no need for those animals to change their genome in order to switch sex.

Meh, this is why I don't speak about biology that often. I've been dredged in fossils too long to remember things right...

Yeah, both furries that I know are straight too. One of them to my dismay...

Same here. The "furries I know are straight" part, that is. As far as the L, G, and B letters go, I'm on the "none of the above"platform.

Oh, and *Hugs for Dogmantra*

[cycoris]

This begs the question of whether LGBT covers furries/scalies...

I have nothing to add to the current discussion, but I would like to say that that doesn't mean what you think it does.

On a related subject, taking an intro logic class ruined my life.

Thank you for making me feel a bit more normal. I thought I was the only one who got peeved when people misuse that phrase.

*hugs*

[Coidzor]

I have nothing to add to the current discussion, but I would like to say that that doesn't mean what you think it does.

On a related subject, taking an intro logic class ruined my life.

Oh yeah. I was in that same boat myself for a long while. Never fully can get out of it, of course... The good news is though, that with carefully wielded monkey wrenches and repression, one can get it down to a manageable level.

...Well, unless you go on and take a lot more logic classes. Or others of a similar effect. Then there's no helping it.

Okay, I might be able to add something. Good huggers are great. Unfortunately for some of us who like hugs, we're not good enough friends with enough people to meet our hug-quota most days. My mom doesn't mind that I randomly hug her 15 or 20 times a day (at least), but it tends to annoy most people.

Y'know, I've never really found any problems with the hugs of those who I like enough to want to hug and who like me enough to want to hug me.

Though that much need for hugging does raise the question of why you need that much human contact and what your brain is doing with it.

[Dogmantra]

Thank you for making me feel a bit more normal. I thought I was the only one who got peeved when people misuse that phrase.

*hugs*

I was keeping quiet because I thought I might end up looking like a jerk if I said anything.

[Anuan]

I'm usually the person that cracks down on such things >.>

I had no idea that this was the incorrect way of using that phrase. This has been rectified. It shall hopefully not happen again.

...Can we go back to discussing LGBT matters now? <.<

[Coidzor]

So... I met someone I'm pretty sure is a transitioning or recently transitioned mtf yesterday. Mostly due to her voice having the strangest quality to it that I had never really heard before. It had this combination of both a nasal and a throaty quality simultaneously, which was quite confusing and also slightly physically painful when certain words were uttered, sort of like when I'm near this one guy who is capable of whistling at a pitch near the boundaries of what humans can hear. (Granted, I was rather sensitive yesterday and the day before due to some weird pressure thing that seems to have gone away...)

Do hormones have a period where they'll have a noticeable effect on the individual's voice before things settle out? Or was I simply assuming something totally offbase about why her vocal quality would be like that?

[LaLitrus]

Hormones will not make a voice higher. Testosterone can lower your voice, but nothing will make it higher aside from training yourself to use only certain parts of your vocal chords.

[golentan]

So... I met someone I'm pretty sure is a transitioning or recently transitioned mtf yesterday. Mostly due to her voice having the strangest quality to it that I had never really heard before. It had this combination of both a nasal and a throaty quality simultaneously, which was quite confusing and also slightly physically painful when certain words were uttered, sort of like when I'm near this one guy who is capable of whistling at a pitch near the boundaries of what humans can hear. (Granted, I was rather sensitive yesterday and the day before due to some weird pressure thing that seems to have gone away...)

Do hormones have a period where they'll have a noticeable effect on the individual's voice before things settle out? Or was I simply assuming something totally offbase about why her vocal quality would be like that?

You might actually have met a pre-op FtM. My friend went that way, and his voice cracked, then did something like what you're describing, before settling down somewhere in the masculine range. While still visibly feminine, right when he was starting the hormone treatments.

Because the voice shift doesn't go the other way, as LaLitrus pointed out.

[Dihan]

Well three more people know now!

1) A gay friend of the lesbian/bi couple.
2) A straight friend
3) Some random person from my course who saw me dancing with the aforementioned gay guy.

[Lycan 01]

Hi there. I was wondering if ya'll wouldn't mind helping me clarify something. Recently, my GF has been doing a lot of thinking, and something has started to concern her slightly. Its nothing major, but she feels like it makes her weird. I personally don't see as weird, and just accept it as part of the way she is.

At any rate, the situation is that she feels no gender attachment. I'm sure exactly how you would describe it, and neither does she. But I'll try my best to explain it... She's certain that she's straight, and feels no attraction for women. But when it comes to being a woman herself, she doesn't really see herself that way. She doesn't see herself as man, either. She just feels... neutral, if that makes any sense. She says that some days she feels more feminine, and some days she feels masculine. But generally speaking, she views herself as being alligned with neither gender, floating somewhere in between. As previously stated, she's attracted to men and is physically female, of course. But she just feels... neutral, or non-existant.

She's worried that makes her weird. I personally don't have a problem with it, and accept it as one of her quirks. I love her for who she is, not what gender she sees herself as. And its not like she wants a sex change or anything. She says she's perfectly content as she is. She just worries that she's weird or something, since she doesn't fit the normal mold of being a woman, or something like that.

So I told her I'd ask the nice people of the Giantitp LGBT Thread about it, which made her happy. I figured if anyone could provide advice or info on something like this, it'd be here. If ya'll don't mind, of course...

[bluewind95]

That is not too unlike myself, so that's pretty normal, if you can say I'm normal.

I don't think it's weird, though.

[Coidzor]

If she doesn't feel trapped in the wrong body, then there's no actual problem for her in being in a woman's body, therefore, there's no real problem.

Reminds me of my ex in a way, she was a bit perturbed/bothered/annoyed that she didn't feel stereotypically feminine, despite my explaining that with the advent of feminism and what successes it has had, the feminine encompasses more than that, so she only needs to feel alienated from it if she actually is alienated from it. And then beyond that, it doesn't matter unless it's to the point where one needs to live as the opposite sex from their birth sex to feel comfortable in their own skin.

Or they're genderqueer or even gender****. Most of them seem like they hate the concept of gender more than simply don't feel very attached to one, or maybe I'm conflating the latter with the former again.

Thing is, she'd know enough to know that it wasn't the normalcy issue that would pique concern for anyone.

If you're still at the point where you can worry or wonder or care about the normalcy issue, things have not yet reached the tipping point where a new identity is in order, as a rule of thumb.

[Lix Lorn]

There's a specific term for it; I don't remember what. But it is a recognised thing. ^_^

[SMEE]

I thought long and hard about posting this here, because up untill now I have never told anybody. I know that as I am as posting this anonymously noone close to me will ever find out, but posting this kinda symbolizes to me that this problem really exist and is not just in my head.

I am 19 year old geek who wishes he(she?) were a girl. Or thats how I think. To be frank I am confused, very very confused.
I keep reading about how other transexual get the feeling that they were born into wrong gender really young, sometimes as early four or five years old. Well, I have only known for like 5 years max. This is one of the many things that sometimes make me doupt I have a real GiD at all. I am totally confused about it. Sometimes I know it to be true, that I really want to be a woman. Sometime I think its just that I fantasise about having sex as a woman.

Sometimes I can go for a week or two without a single thought about GiD sometimes I spend an entire day just angsting about it. Which is really annoying when I should be studying physics fr example. Today was exactly a day like that. (I partially blame it on the webcomic about MTF transsexual I found yesterday) Now I feel just sad. I am not depressed (Not having any suicidal thoughts etc) I just feel like something is eating me from inside and I feel like I am suffocating. I want to just curl up in the corner and cry untill everything gets better but I just can't.
I am also bit scared because my thoughts seem to bit fuzzy when ever I think about anything that is related to GiD.

Its kinda funny. I used to have a transition plan made up. One year in university as a boy, then into the army and after that back to the university and try to contact a therapist so I can transition before I graduate (partially this plan is like that to allow for possiblity of these feelings just goin away before I commit myself to them). Just a week ago I got huge urge to do it faster. I considered just going to the therapist stright away but quickly decided to wait for the university studies to start first (really cheap mental healthcare for university students ftw).

I keep going from phases where I want to get HRT and SRS RIGHT NOW to phases where I am just disgusted at myself and back again. I have been doing rather well as guy, I got friends, loving family and slightly (but only slightly) better than avarage grades. I am act quite boyish, curse ALOT etc (only reason I am cursing ín this rant is because I know I should keep this civil and english doesn't have good curse words anyway). Even if I transitioned I still think I would be very tomboyish. I still smile and joke a lot and seem happy when I am around people but the moment I am alone I feel like crying.

I am also at loss about how I would come out. My dad is bit old fashioned but I think he would eventually accept it. I have watched few tv-shows where transexuals have been interviewed and my mom doesn't seem to think there is anything wrong with it. Problem are my relatives, many of whome are old and religous and my girlfriend. I love her and I know she loves me but I keep angsting about this stupid GID and I don't want to hurt her. We are planning on having sex for the first time soon but I feel like I am already betraying her.

Sorry about this long angsty rant. I just needed to tell someone even if I am not able to tell to anyone of those close to me yet (or perhaps never). (also not native speaker so sorry fo the typos and grammer mistakes.)

We got mail from another person who needs our advise.

[Lix Lorn]

Well, there is one type of GID which is from when you're very young-but it has been known to manifest during puberty. I'm 17, and I only realised four or five months ago, but I'm more sure of it than anything else.

It is important to tell your partner, I think... but I don't have any experience. I guess, just good luck.

[Ostien]

@Lycan 01
I see no problem here, move along move along...

Seriously I know many female bodied folks like that, my gf for instance may not say the things your gf has or identify as neutral, but is more like the person in Coidzor's tale, just does not feel feminine, but is fine with it. Genderqueer may work but many in that situation just would say they are a-gender or gender neutral.

Or they're genderqueer or even gender****. Most of them seem like they hate the concept of gender more than simply don't feel very attached to one, or maybe I'm conflating the latter with the former again.

some do some don't, GQ is pretty broad so its hard to say. Though I usually hear gender**** in the context of more looking at gender as a performace act, where they play around with gender, like its an art of being. But that's just the majority of folks who use the term gender**** that I have personally meet.

@Anonymous person

I keep reading about how other transexual get the feeling that they were born into wrong gender really young, sometimes as early four or five years old. Well, I have only known for like 5 years max.

There is a popular narrative of everyone who decides to transition knew "for as long as they can remember." This just is not the case for many who feel they want to transition and have transitioned (I know many for whom this is true). Though you may run into some issues with the medical establishment and barriers by psychiatrists and psychologists alike. GID is contested and many view it as narrow in scope, playing only on gender stereotypes rather then the complexities of ones own gender and sex identification (but that's a whole other discussion and probably best not to drudge that up). In any case, the DSM is standard care, so it may be hard to find help without running into that, if you see that as an issue. Though if you are near Chicago I'd suggest Howard Brown, I hear they basically say **** all to the standards of care and go much more one on one. Cheap too. I'm sure there are other trans friendly clinics around the country (or whatever country you are in).

You may want to consider seeing a therapist about gender issues. There are many who are not going to pathologize you (i.e. tell you you are or are not GID, and just focus on how you may fit a diagnosis). Before you go talk to the therapist on the phone and ask if they are Client-Centered (the vast majority of practicing psychologists/therapists are client centered). I'd stay away from therapists with a Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT) slant and Psychoanalytic can be a crap shoot. This does not have to be expensive, there are places where it is on a sliding scale and can be as little as $10 a session, with no insurance (don't know about outside the US). So you can do that without being in a university if that's going to be a bit down the road. There is noting wrong with just seeing a therapist to talk to and you can start and stop whenever so there is no downside aside from minimal cost (bigger cities would be easier to find places that do good sliding scale, but by no means does this mean that outside of them it's impossible).

Perhaps put off coming out until you are more confident with where you are at yourself. It will be easier to explain if you have a grasp on your own identity beforehand.

Above all don't feel pressured, all I can (or anyone can) do is suggest things but you have to make the decisions you feel more comfortable with.

[Darklord Xavez]

Hello all,
I am neither L, G, B, or T, but I think that this thread is a great idea. Are there any large versions of the "straight but not narrow" banner? Please help me out here.
Thank you,
Xavez

[Jacklu]

Oy... I am having some trouble with my WoW guild (oh the geeky horror). The problem being that my younger brother and closest friend are in it with me and managed to spill not only my sex (male) and name to the members, meaning they refer to me as a guy and dude and use my real name when talking to me (which I can't stand in any online setting). I guess I've just grown so accustom to being female in online settings that having one where I am known and referred to as male is a bit uncomfortable and abrasive. Trouble is, unlike most online settings, I can't just politely explain my "condition" and ask to be referred to as female as it would mean my brother and friend finding out... -_-

Anonymous Person: Hello and welcome! My advice... well, I didn't really know until I was almost 20, so don't let the whole not "having known as long as I can remember" thing get you down. Honestly, I go through all the same stuff you are describing. The assuredness followed by doubt and self recrimination, rinse repeat. Just... Hang in there and try not to stress out to much about it. The fact is, if you really are trans, well, it won't fade as time goes on. If you are still unsure, then give it a little more time to all settle out. You are still a teenager, after all. Plenty of time ahead of you to figure this stuff out. ^_^

[golentan]

Oy... I am having some trouble with my WoW guild (oh the geeky horror). The problem being that my younger brother and closest friend are in it with me and managed to spill not only my sex (male) and name to the members, meaning they refer to me as a guy and dude and use my real name when talking to me (which I can't stand in any online setting). I guess I've just grown so accustom to being female in online settings that having one where I am known and referred to as male is a bit uncomfortable and abrasive. Trouble is, unlike most online settings, I can't just politely explain my "condition" and ask to be referred to as female as it would mean my brother and friend finding out... -_-

Firstly, Welcome Back Jacklu!

Secondly: 3 options are open to you. First, kill bob. Second, kill yourself. And the third is to ensure that no-one ever knows. Kill everyone in the whole world!!!!

Blackadder quotes aside (do not take any of the above seriously, for the love of Sube), you have a limited list of options.

1) Correct people, and explain matters to your brother and friend. You are going to have to bite the bullet at some point, and it may be easier on everyone to have some time to adjust to the idea rather than coming home one day and saying "Hey, everybody. Guess who has two thumbs and just got SRS. THIS GU... GAL!!!"

2) Quit playing/Join another guild. If it's bothering you, you don't have to stick around. And finding another group of people who do not know those you are worried about is an option.

3) Sit there and deal with it.

4) Combo #s 2 and 3. Keep showing up for guild raids and stuff, so you can keep playing with existing friends, but move your main to another server, or cut down on WoW.

[Tyrandar]

Yeah, it's frickin' hard to convince people on the internet you're a girl (sans pics ). Getting knocked out of balance is tough and there are basically two ways to go about fixing it, none of which are going to be easy. First, and probably easier, option is to distance yourself from your brother and friend. Change guilds, servers, whatever it takes. If they ask, just say "I wanted to raid/PvP/pick flowers/whatevers." The second option is to come out. I wouldn't know about that. (SO knows about my bisexuality and gender****ery, but that's about it. Oh and you guys! )

Regardless of what you decide on, good luck!

[Ashen Lilies]

Getting your guild to stop using your name is easy enough. No one likes getting called by their real name in an online game. Next time someone uses your real name just tell them you would rather they call you by your online moniker (or Darling, Cuddlemuffins, Boogerbear whatever).
The gender thing... is probably harder. Depends on how accepting your friend and brother are, and how well they can be trusted to accept it. If he's over 16 or so and you've got a good relationship with him and he's fairly open-minded...
Well, whatever you choose or choose not to tell them, give them a slap for revealling your personal details online. Because that's not cool, yo.

[Darklord Xavez]

Hello all,
I am neither L, G, B, or T, but I think that this thread is a great idea. Are there any large versions of the "straight but not narrow" banner? Please help me out here.
Thank you,
Xavez

Hello? Anybody?
-Xavez

[Tyrandar]

Hello? Anybody?
-Xavez

There is none that I know of. I guess if you have a knack for graphic design, or wanna poke somebody who does, you can make one.

[Jacklu]

Thanks all. I've asked to be referred to as "Jackie" as it is a gender neutral name (and my friend and brother know it is a corruption of Jacklu) on top of what I prefer as my name anyways. =P Not going to come out just yet (as has been mentioned before, neither friend nor family is very open minded about such things) and it seems a bit extreme to out myself over WoW. As for quitting the guild... well... honestly, I like most of the people in the guild. They are fairly cool and, aside from the pronoun issues, fun to talk to and game with. Also... I think one of the guild founders (and the person I tend to chat with the most) is starting to get suspicious given that I act basically the way I do in all my other online venues. At least she seems to be asking slightly leading questions and has reacted to some of the things I say and do with a somewhat curious manner.

Xavez: Didn't see your post! Sorry! Welcome! Prepare for obligatory Jackie glomps!

*glomps* *cuddles* =3

[Lix Lorn]

(joins huggle)
^_^

[Tyrandar]

*casts Freedom of Movement*

group hug!

Yes, fear my nerdy references!

[The Anarresti]

...which is in turn complicated by the often-conflicting female drives to find both a stable mate and good genes, and the male need to be sure that "his" offspring actually is his.

This is really, really, really far back in the thread, but I'd like to say that the two (i.e. stable male vs. good genes) are not mutually exclusive. Because excessive sexual hormones, testosterone in particular, retard higher brain function, a loyal parter is more likely to also have genes for intelligence.
I'm being a bit of a male apologist here. Yes, we males have done some pretty awful things. In fairness, so have females.
Although I'm not going to try and claim that sexism doesn't exist (as a student at an all-male boarding school, I see it on a regular basis) there is a strong image that males have to keep up.
I've also noticed that while it is "ok" for women to be bi, it is considered kind odd for them to be lesbian, and god forbid a male to be anything but taco-hungry. Like at dances and such, girls grinding on each other happens all the time, women kiss when they greet each other: and in some other cultures, such as Arab, men holding hands is a perfectly acceptable sign of friendship. Why is there more of a stigma against queer men than queer women?
Also, I go to an all-guys boarding school. Oddly enough, when girls aren't around, guys let down their guard more and do things (like holding hands) that would be considered gay in mixed company. Plus, transgendered behavior in general, in a joking manner, is funny: if girls where around, it'd be taboo. Just wondering why that is.

[The Anarresti]

My "problem" isn't sexual in nature: I'm straight, more or less. The problem is that I don't really fit with societies accepted values for what a male should be: I act more gender-neutral than anything else. This really isn't anything major, just a personality quirk, and I really began posting on this thread because I have quite a few close gay friends who are dealing with their gender issues, and I wanted to see how other people dealt with theirs. The problem comes when people try to connivence me to "come out of the closet," when I actually aren't in it to begin with. Honestly I'm not in the closet: if I was, I would be out already: I'm blessed with amazingly supportive and open-minded parents (who also happen to be 1e gamers), who honestly couldn't care less what turned me on. What saddens me is when my gay friends come out, and then their parents disown them for their pains. So, I'm kinda posting as one of those awkward: "straight-not-narrow" types, but I really don't have a definition yet. I think I'm just griping about how narrow our society views sexual preference: that you have to base your whole life around who you find doable.