LGBTitp - Part Six

[fknm]

Ann Coulter is the best possible source to cite.

Given that she's a lawyer, yes, I'd say that she's good source for information about how modern politics work.

Aren't unsubstantiated ad-hominem attacks fun?

[golentan]

We're moving into dangerous debate territory here, can we please move on?

Also, Fknm, just to let you know that POV (that the school is the victim) is only going to start arguments here. Almost to the point of trolling. As for sex arranged uniforms, I think I'd take a leaf out of Tedd's book and wear part or all of the female ensemble just to make a point, punishment/ridicule be damned.

[Danne]

::sighs:: Sir or madam, as Lix Lorn pointed out, I believe you are posting in the wrong thread.

But anyway.

If only I were. Sadly, thanks to the dynamics of identity politics, I don't- if you belong to a "protected" group, you can wield power over the WASPs, and you even get to deny your own privilege while doing it! Read "Guilty" by Ann Coulter.

Ann Coulter? The same woman who attacked 9/11 widows? And you actually consider any of her opinions to be valid?

Incorrect. Her friend couldn't come alone, because she wasn't from that school.

That's not what Constance herself said in an interview. According to her (and gosh, I would think she would know), she was first told that she couldn't bring her girlfriend ("because that's not allowed"), then that she couldn't wear a tux, but the final decision was that the girlfriend could go (but still no tux and no couple-y behavior).

This isn't an issue of "non-student not being allowed into a school event," it's open discrimination.

Did you have the ACLU trying to bring as much attention to your prom as possible? No?

The ACLU didn't get involved until after the school had infringed upon her rights. So no, said organization was not involved in my school's prom because it wasn't needed. We don't deny our students their rights.

Not true. Schools get to have separate male and female physical education. OMG, that's discriminatory! Some public schools go so far as to mandate uniforms. Hey, guess what, if you're a girl, and don't like the fact that you have to wear a girl's uniform, you have no recourse, because it's entirely legal!

Single sex PE doesn't infringe upon people's rights. Nor do uniforms. It's not discrimination -- unless, for example, the boys got to do really fun and interesting activities and the girls were told they had to sit around doing feminine activities like needlepoint or something. And I attended a middle school with a very strict dress code (like, polo shirts and Dockers). So I've nothing against school dress codes -- unless they're being discriminatory.

Perhaps there's no harm in it where it's closer to the social norms. However, in an environment where it's extremely contrary to social norms (i.e., the deep south), it definitely causes disruptions, which means that the school is well within their boundaries to not allow it.

...And that somehow makes it less discriminatory?

Edited:

We're moving into dangerous debate territory here, can we please move on?

Good point. I'm done for the night anyway (library's closing). Can talk about happier things tomorrow? Or at least things that don't raise my blood pressure so high?

[fknm]

Ann Coulter? The same woman who attacked 9/11 widows? And you actually consider any of her opinions to be valid?

She was dead on right in criticism of them. To quote her directly: "Don't use the fact that you lost a husband as a basis for you being able to talk about it while preventing people from responding". I find it hard to believe that anyone could disagree with that.

That's not what Constance herself said in an interview. According to her (and gosh, I would think she would know), she was first told that she couldn't bring her girlfriend ("because that's not allowed"), then that she couldn't wear a tux, but the final decision was that the girlfriend could go (but still no tux and no couple-y behavior).

This isn't an issue of "non-student not being allowed into a school event," it's open discrimination.

She never claims that her girlfriend is from the same school. Try again.

Also, nice to see from that video that you're getting your talking points from someone that's not famous for their political knowledge, but rather than for being an entertainer.

The ACLU didn't get involved until after the school had infringed upon her rights. So no, said organization was not involved in my school's prom because it wasn't needed. We don't deny our students their rights.

The school didn't infringe upon her rights.

Single sex PE doesn't infringe upon people's rights. Nor do uniforms. It's not discrimination -- unless, for example, the boys got to do really fun and interesting activities and the girls were told they had to sit around doing feminine activities like needlepoint or something. And I attended a middle school with a very strict dress code (like, polo shirts and Dockers). So I've nothing against school dress codes -- unless they're being discriminatory.

And, in what way is this prom dress code any more discriminatory than different uniforms for men vs. women?

...And that somehow makes it less discriminatory?

No, because it's not discriminatory in the first place.

[Raistlin1040]

If anyone thinks they can take on these guys, they've got another thing coming.

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But honestly, can we move the politics out the thread please?

[Derjuin]

So...

My friend might be taking me shopping this weekend...she found a neat little shop in town that buys things that don't get sold out, and they manage to sell it for cheaper than what the item was originally offered for. I hope I can find something neat for summer there...

[fknm]

If anyone thinks they can take on these guys, they've got another thing coming.

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"Animal (**** Like a Beast)" is probably the best glam-rock song ever. It's nice to see a band be honest about their intentions.

[/irrelevant]

[Coidzor]

Me, I'm just confused about why they're named after White Anglo-Saxon Protestants.

And where the term came from.

Derjuin: Hopefully. At the very least it'll be an interesting escapade.

[fknm]

Their name was an acronym for "We Are Sexual Perverts". That said, I doubt the overlap was coincidental.

[Raistlin1040]

They're not named after anything. If anything, it's more likely that they're We Are Sexual Perverts, We Are So Perfect, or any other name they've been rumored to have over the years. Alternatively, they wanted it to stand out more, hence the capitalization and the period, which is their own story.

Speaking of entertainers, and the LGBT thread, a pressing question.

Gay Icon entertainers. Valuable to the gay world (not just the gay community, mind), or overly stereotypical?

[fknm]

According to their notes in metal-archives, Blackie Lawless actually claimed that it is "We Are Sexual Perverts".

[Roland St. Jude]

Sheriff of Moddingham: Please avoid real world politics in this Forum.

[Yora]

A sad world where human rights are considered offensive...

[Faulty]

I'm in two classes about queer people next year. :D One about queer history in Britain and one about queer identity and music.

[Asta Kask]

If anyone thinks they can take on these guys, they've got another thing coming.

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No sweat for a

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T-rex in an F-14!

[Viera Champion]

Ok. Do y'all remember my deaf best friend I told you about? The one I have that little thing for. Well I slept over at his house last night, so I decided to finally tell him I'm bisexual. So I did. The problem is I'm not quite sure whether he thought I was joking or not. It got awkward later in the night when he asked me if I had ever watched porn. He swore that someone else, (whose name he wasn't allowed to say), had told him to ask me. That was obviously a lie, but I didn't really care. I answered truthfully with a little "Sure, who hasn't?" and then the night just carried on as if he never asked.

Yeahhhhh...

It's still really annoying how we are obviously friends, but when anyone else is around, he denies being my friend at all. I'm like "what?!"

[Faulty]

I had a friend in high school who was really nice and supportive when we were alone, but was mean to me and teased me when we were with our other friends (who also teased me... high school sucked). In retrospect, he was a crappy friend. Just sayin'.

[Jacklu]

Faulty: Ooh! Interesting classes. ^_^ Let us know how they go. *wishes she had classes like that at her school*

Kurama: =/ Well... At the very least it doesn't sound like he is never going to talk to you again. I guess... Carry on as usual and see where it takes you.

[Viera Champion]

Never goig to talk me again? Oh of course not! Hell, were already planning for me to go back over there again sometime soon. But it's sad, cuz next year he's moving out of state to an all deaf boarding school...>_>

I won't get to see him... It's not fair!

[Danne]

Also, nice to see from that video that you're getting your talking points from someone that's not famous for their political knowledge, but rather than for being an entertainer.

Ad hominem. Also non sequitur, as I neither quoted nor paraphrased the interviewer (I don't even watch the show, it's a clip I found online). I linked to the interview because of what Constance, herself, says -- that the girlfriend was allowed to come, but that they would be thrown out if they acted like a couple.

But seriously, can we stop this now? Neither one of us is going to change the other person's mind.

Besides, I'd really rather respond to, say, Faulty's post about queer classes by bragging that my history professor literally wrote the book on gay relationships in feudal Japan. Which I think is awesome. He's going on sabbatical this upcoming year, but he teaches a course on the history of Japanese sexuality that I'm looking forward to when he gets back.

And Kurama, I had pair of "friends" like that when I was little. My advice would be to cut your losses. If a person isn't your friend in public, than he's not your friend in private, either. You should be able to count on your friends to have your back, all the time.

[golentan]

A sad world where human rights are considered offensive...

Welcome to the world. People will dislike you for no good reason, no matter how hard you try there will always be someone better than you, your faculties (both mental and physical) will degrade over time despite your desperate attempts to maintain them, and in the end you'll die and people will forget you ever existed.

And that's if you're lucky.

On the plus side, we have cake. And cuddles. And cuddling cakes, though that's impinging on rule 34, which I don't think should fall on the plus side.

[Viera Champion]

~snip~
And Kurama, I had pair of "friends" like that when I was little. My advice would be to cut your losses. If a person isn't your friend in public, than he's not your friend in private, either. You should be able to count on your friends to have your back, all the time.

I...
I...
I can't do that. It's the fact that, we are really good friends, and as annoyig as it is that he denies it, I don't mind as much because everyone knows he's my friend because even if he denies it, he is never apart from me. And, as I said before, he is going to a boarding school for the deaf, so I'll only be able to talk to him through texting and facebook.

And maybe I shouldn't have said that I have a "little thing" for him. This is a full out gay crush on him.

[Danne]

On the plus side, we have cake. And cuddles. And cuddling cakes, though that's impinging on rule 34, which I don't think should fall on the plus side.

I approve of cake. And cuddles.

Though not at the same time, that sounds messy.

@Kurama: Ah. Yes, that makes things more difficult. Have you tried telling him that it hurts you when he pretends you're not friends? Or asking your other friends to let him know that he's not fooling them?

[Viera Champion]

Well you see, as annoying as it is. It really doesn't cause any problem. So that's not really a problem I need to adress with him.

[Danne]

I would say that if it's bothering you, than it's a problem. What's the worst that could come out of addressing it? It might not do any good, but would it hurt?

It's your decision, though. I can't know the best thing to do because I don't know you or your friend. I'm sure you'll manage to work things out.

[Coidzor]

Your thinking sounds a little suspect here, Kurama. I mean, it really just sounds like you're scared to endanger the position you're in to spend any time with him before he leaves for next school year.

Which will fairly effectively put him out of your life for a good while/forever.

[Viera Champion]

Your thinking sounds a little suspect here, Kurama. I mean, it really just sounds like you're scared to endanger the position you're in to spend any time with him before he leaves for next school year.

Which will fairly effectively put him out of your life for a good while/forever.

Damn your good...

Yeah, if you get down to it, that really is the whole problem here.

[Dust]

Kurama, this is sort of random, but I remember you saying you only know very small amounts of sign language. How do you two normally communicate? How did this recent discussion transpire?

I also remember you saying you thought he might feel interested, too. What made you think this? Do you still that his being interested is a possibility?


I ask because, well...if I was a self-conscious individual with feelings for my same-gendered friend, and that friend casually informed me of their bisexuality, I'd probably clam up. I might even blurt out a completely awkward question later.

I'm not trying to get your hopes up, though - honestly, I think you need to just flat-out discuss the issue with him.

[Viera Champion]

It isn't random at all. I appreciate you asking these questions.

Well, we usually write to eachother, or type up messages on out phones, as if we were texting, but we don't send them, just hand the phone/device to the other person, and have them read/answer. Though, sometimes he lip reads.

What discussion exactly? Sorry I'm still tired from last night.

Well as I said, he is always near me, were always right with eahother.

And, I think him not being completely straight is still a possibility, but not as much as the first time I said it was.

I think MY main problem is that I've become a little too attached to him, so I'm going to really take it hard when the school year ends.

And please, keep the questions coming. I'm really not in such a good mood for very much right now, but these questions are raising my spirit for some reason. So they're keeping me happy.

[Dust]

Well, I meant the most recent discussion that consisted of "Here's what's up with me." "Oh. Um. Ever seen porn?" but using a cellphone/back-and-forth piece of paper makes sense.

He's 'always near you', but denies being your friend to others? I guess this implies either he's not actually fooling anyone, or he's only near you when it's not particularily public. Either way, it sounds to me like he's got feelings he hasn't sorted out yet, which is a good sign for you...so long as you decide (and soon!) whether or not to be honest about it with him.

Like so many things in life, if you don't just bite back your fear and tell him what's on your mind, you'll always wonder.


(I should probably add that I'm a heterosexual male with a dating track record that makes me a GIGANTIC JERK, so take any advice I might give with a grain of salt.)